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Jesus' Divinity

Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 2:21:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

From the Bible or the Quaran, I didnt participate in the threat you made on April 20th so I'm clueless.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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11/11/2010 2:25:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, "This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'") 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John 1-15 http://www.biblegateway.com...
'sup DDO -- july 2013
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 3:07:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
John 10:30
"I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.


Explanation:
True unity is only possible if both members are equal.For example a father and a son can have unity which a dog and a man could not have. Isn't the distance between God and man even greater? Even if the unity described by Jesus was merely a unity of purpose that would only be possible if the Father and Son were God.

How could a statement like that be considered blasphemy by the Jews who heard Jesus say these words. If it were not a blasphemy then Jews wouldn't stone him.

Revelation 22:13
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


Explanation:
The title the First and the Last is also proof that Jesus is God "I, the LORD, am the first; and with the last I am He.'" Isaiah 41:4
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/11/2010 3:14:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". - Jesus is the Great "I am".
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 3:17:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:09:53 PM, Mirza wrote:
One verse please, thank you.

Sorry I forgot about that so could you refute these verses anyway or should I post them again one by one :). I sincerely forgot about that.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 3:26:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?

Hes not a Christian
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/11/2010 3:44:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:26:52 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?

Hes not a Christian
Well it will be more than interesting for me to have a "non christian" refute my verse.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 3:58:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:44:39 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:26:52 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?

Hes not a Christian
Well it will be more than interesting for me to have a "non christian" refute my verse.

Pardon ?
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/11/2010 4:18:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:58:42 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:44:39 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:26:52 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?

Hes not a Christian
Well it will be more than interesting for me to have a "non christian" refute my verse.

Pardon ?
the verse I provided earlier,- I'm waiting for it to be refuted. (with anticipated interest)
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 4:23:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 4:18:17 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:58:42 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:44:39 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:26:52 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?

Hes not a Christian
Well it will be more than interesting for me to have a "non christian" refute my verse.

Pardon ?
the verse I provided earlier,- I'm waiting for it to be refuted. (with anticipated interest)

Same
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/11/2010 4:46:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:14:55 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". - Jesus is the Great "I am".

You're forgetting the verse before this one...

John 8:57 "And Jesus and John indulged in the smoke of the burning herb of confusion and laughter"
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/11/2010 4:54:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 4:46:09 PM, tvellalott wrote:
John 8:57 "And Jesus and John indulged in the smoke of the burning herb of confusion and laughter"

That must be from the Rastafarian Bible.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/11/2010 5:10:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:07:09 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
John 10:30
"I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.


Explanation:
True unity is only possible if both members are equal.For example a father and a son can have unity which a dog and a man could not have. Isn't the distance between God and man even greater? Even if the unity described by Jesus was merely a unity of purpose that would only be possible if the Father and Son were God.

How could a statement like that be considered blasphemy by the Jews who heard Jesus say these words. If it were not a blasphemy then Jews wouldn't stone him.

Out of context. After claiming to be God, Jesus claimed that we are all gods.

"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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11/11/2010 5:17:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mirza, I've said numerous times that the doctrine of the trinity is not a matter of prooftexting from a couple verses.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/11/2010 5:18:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:10:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

You're seriously going to base your entire interpretation of the Gospels on that one, lonely verse?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/11/2010 5:24:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:18:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 11/11/2010 5:10:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

You're seriously going to base your entire interpretation of the Gospels on that one, lonely verse?

No. I was merely responding to the post above mine. He took a gerse out of context so I showed him the rest of it which changed the meaning of the word. This is a complete strawman on your behalf. I have no idea how you derived that from my post.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/11/2010 5:31:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:24:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/11/2010 5:18:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
You're seriously going to base your entire interpretation of the Gospels on that one, lonely verse?

No. I was merely responding to the post above mine. He took a gerse out of context so I showed him the rest of it which changed the meaning of the word. This is a complete strawman on your behalf. I have no idea how you derived that from my post.

Not really. I wasn't addressing just this post, but your views on Jesus' in general.

"Jesus wasn't claiming that he is equivalent to Yahweh, the genocidal killer. He was claiming that he was God in a more general sense as he clarified in John 10:33,34 that he called himself a god and that we too are gods. (Yes, some Biblical teachings mirror Gnostic ones)" - http://www.debate.org...
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/11/2010 5:32:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:24:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/11/2010 5:18:33 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 11/11/2010 5:10:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

You're seriously going to base your entire interpretation of the Gospels on that one, lonely verse?

No. I was merely responding to the post above mine. He took a gerse out of context so I showed him the rest of it which changed the meaning of the word. This is a complete strawman on your behalf. I have no idea how you derived that from my post.

You are wrong and I will expose ignorance but now Its late and Im tired lol
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/12/2010 9:19:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:10:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:07:09 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
John 10:30
"I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.


Explanation:
True unity is only possible if both members are equal.For example a father and a son can have unity which a dog and a man could not have. Isn't the distance between God and man even greater? Even if the unity described by Jesus was merely a unity of purpose that would only be possible if the Father and Son were God.

How could a statement like that be considered blasphemy by the Jews who heard Jesus say these words. If it were not a blasphemy then Jews wouldn't stone him.

Out of context. After claiming to be God, Jesus claimed that we are all gods.

"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

Makest thyself God ...
Pharisees fully and correctly understood, at last, exactly what Jesus meant; and their fury rose and overflowed. Jesus meant to claim unequivocally his equality and oneness with God. Significantly, if Jesus' claim was false, he was a blasphemer and deserved death; and, in this, appears the sharp dilemma concerning Christ.

I said ye are gods?

This is the passage to which Jesus referred:

God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? ... I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High (Psalms 82:1,2,6).
The unjust judges of Israel were the subject of these verses, God calling them "gods" in order to stimulate and encourage them to render just judgments. Of course, those men were "sons of the Most High" in the sense ordinary; but the use of such words in the Holy Scriptures were proof absolute that it was not blasphemy for a man to call himself "son of God" in that same sense. Jesus did not imply by this appeal that he claimed to be "Son of God" in the ordinary sense; for both he and his enemies knew that it was in the unique sense of being "the only begotten Son of God" that Jesus used the title. Nevertheless, it was sinful and illegal for those Pharisees to make what Jesus meant the basis for a charge of blasphemy. He had not pinpointed the unique phase of his claim (at that point); and he cited the Psalm which he quoted as a complete and adequate defense of what he had actually said. In the divine plan, Jesus would eventually testify under oath to the uniqueness of his Sonship, but that would come before the historic court of the chosen people, and not in the presence of a vicious mob like that which confronted him.

It is wrong to understand Jesus' appeal to Psalm 82 as a reduction of his claim of absolute equality with God; it was only an extremely effective refutation of their charge of blasphemy by an argument from their own premises which they were compelled to accept, and did accept. It stunned them, aborted their efforts to stone him, and again proved the Pharisees incapable of standing against Jesus in public debate.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/12/2010 12:55:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:14:55 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". - Jesus is the Great "I am".
The answer is here: http://www.debate.org...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/12/2010 12:56:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?
He is not "alive."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/12/2010 12:58:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2010 5:17:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Mirza, I've said numerous times that the doctrine of the trinity is not a matter of prooftexting from a couple verses.
I do not care about a philosophical explanation. Philosophically speaking you can interpret the Bible to be the first series of Harry Potter (a miracle person, bird following him everywhere, etc). I want to see Christians prove that Jesus was exclusively meant to be God, and that when people call him "lord" that it actually means "God" (which it does not).
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/12/2010 1:09:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2010 12:56:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?
He is not "alive."

" Not alive", where did you learn this ?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/12/2010 1:14:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2010 1:09:04 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/12/2010 12:56:05 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:23:24 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/11/2010 1:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Resurrection of a thread I made on April 20th.

I ask Christians to name one verse per post - before response - which is perfect evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a human (i.e. divine). I look forward to interesting discussions, thank you.

Why say "Jesus" then "peace be upon him", if he lives ?
He is not "alive."

" Not alive", where did you learn this ?
He is not alive with us. He is in Heaven, which is why we say "peace be upon him" because he is not with us, hence he is not "alive" in this world. In short, Jesus (peace be upon him) is alive in the sense that he is in Paradise, but he is not with us.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/12/2010 2:38:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2010 12:55:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/11/2010 3:14:55 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". - Jesus is the Great "I am".
The answer is here: http://www.debate.org...

Sorry but your answer is not accepted. let's go into it more.

I provided John 8:58 Jesus saying "I AM" - "I" means"eyw"(Greek) translated is "ego" - "me, my". - "AM" (PC will not accept this Greek) translated is "eimi" meaning "to be, to exist, to happen, to be present" (Verb)

Lets couple it with what God told Moses in - EX 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

My point is if God told Moses he is the "I AM", and Jesus makes the same claim, "I AM", then they are one and the same.

Jesus told us he was the "Truth" [John 14:6] which is a massive claim, because every true Christian knows the "Truth" (Jesus), and if they know it or not, can only know him as truth, meaning, I cannot know that I'm preparing my reply, or anything else in this world, "Metaphysics" supports this view, that's why it was a massive claim, it was defying logic, but we are guilty of taking it for granted.

So when Jesus and God say "I AM", they are saying they exist, ie John 8:58 - "before Abraham was I AM - "I existed".

"I AM" IS "God", - "Truth with us" or "truth within us" or "us in truth..." - in Christ, he in us and we in him [John 6:56], we abide in truth

I've ran out of ways to explain it. Verily Verily - "of a truth of a truth" [ I existed before Abraham]