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Christianity stole Christmas.

Chloe8
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3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/17/2016 8:39:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.


Nobody was aware the holiday belonged to you and those like you exclusively, it's amazing the whako's that think they have the special knowledge and entitlements here.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/17/2016 8:48:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 8:39:46 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.



Nobody was aware the holiday belonged to you and those like you exclusively, it's amazing the whako's that think they have the special knowledge and entitlements here.

Show me a bible verse showing the date of Jesus's birthday?

There isn't one. Even your holy book cannot get you out of the fact no evidence exists that Jesus was born on December 25th. Christians merely chose the date centuries after the gospels were written as a means to have a religious festival matching other religions.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday. I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/18/2016 12:56:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday. I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion,

Yes you have, why tell such a stupid lie?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/18/2016 1:30:11 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 12:56:04 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday. I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion,

Yes you have, why tell such a stupid lie?

Nope. Only Atheist celebrate religious holidays, then shout their hatred for religion from the hilltops. I think psychologically it is based on a resentment for being born, a desire to have no accountability, or a hatred for Christ. In your case maybe all 3. Right or wrong?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
A1tre
Posts: 223
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3/18/2016 1:49:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
There is no need to respond to people who do not make any arguments and don"t have any evidence in support of their opinion.

It makes me sad to see the Christians responding with petty attacks against Atheists, this behavior indicates a fear of not being able to deal with criticism of ones own belief system. In fact the claim that Christmas is a stolen holiday can be valid for every non-Christian and Christian alike, not just Atheists. Their attacks also don"t invalidate the original argument made in tis topic.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/18/2016 8:19:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday. I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Thanks for being honest and acknowledging that Jesus's birthday was not on the 25th December. As it was already a festival before Christianity adopted it people of other faiths or no faiths celebrating Christmas is no big deal. Many people of other faiths and no faiths celebrate Christmas because they have to fit in with a mainly Christian culture. i agree many Atheists celebrate a festival Christians stole years ago.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/18/2016 9:19:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 8:19:12 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday. I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Thanks for being honest and acknowledging that Jesus's birthday was not on the 25th December. As it was already a festival before Christianity adopted it people of other faiths or no faiths celebrating Christmas is no big deal. Many people of other faiths and no faiths celebrate Christmas because they have to fit in with a mainly Christian culture. i agree many Atheists celebrate a festival Christians stole years ago.

The grinch stole Christmas. I have him on film.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 1:27:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

Have you ever had an original thought?

By original I mean it is not an exact copy of some thing you saw or read somewhere.

Do you know you sound like a tool?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 1:40:06 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Christmas isn't a religious holiday. It's a commercial one.

There are clues to Jesus birth in the bible. likely it was in July.

I think everyone knows that while the Early Catholic Church was making converts, the conversion was many times an assimilation of the culture. People just rewrote their own traditions in a christian light. Hence why there is no biblical reason for a Evergreen in the house, for a wreath, for a yule log. Or painted Eggs on Easter. Or even naming the Day Easter.

These "Holidays" are celebrated by Secularist, Atheist, Secular Christians, Muslims, pretty much everyone in America.

I have found that the more Orthodox Christians, and those with a real understanding of Scripture do not celebrate Christmas. And the more earnestly celebrate Ash Wednesday or lent.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/19/2016 1:44:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:43:51 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Calling someone a tool prompted .
You to think your better then that.

Mmmmm morality right there
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/19/2016 1:50:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:27:46 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

Have you ever had an original thought?

By original I mean it is not an exact copy of some thing you saw or read somewhere.

I don't see your point. How does it matter if I thought of an argument or someone else? It just annoys you the excellent arguments I post highlight christianities many flaws. It's not as if Christians are reluctant to use the bible to back up their claims is it?

Do you know you sound like a tool?

What gives you that impression?

How is making valid arguments disproving Christianity in an way stupid?

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Anyway I thought I'd show you these threads I created to prove you wrong.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 1:56:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:44:52 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:43:51 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Calling someone a tool prompted .
You to think your better then that.

Mmmmm morality right there

I said it makes you sound like a tool.

Am I correct that when some one is a broken record and mouth piece for superficial propaganda and sophistry it makes them sound like a tool? Yes I am correct.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 1:58:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:50:42 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:27:46 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

Have you ever had an original thought?

By original I mean it is not an exact copy of some thing you saw or read somewhere.

I don't see your point. How does it matter if I thought of an argument or someone else? It just annoys you the excellent arguments I post highlight christianities many flaws. It's not as if Christians are reluctant to use the bible to back up their claims is it?

Do you know you sound like a tool?

What gives you that impression?

How is making valid arguments disproving Christianity in an way stupid?

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Anyway I thought I'd show you these threads I created to prove you wrong.

You haven't proven me wrong. Quite the Contrary.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/19/2016 2:00:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:40:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Christmas isn't a religious holiday. It's a commercial one.

There are clues to Jesus birth in the bible. likely it was in July.

I think everyone knows that while the Early Catholic Church was making converts, the conversion was many times an assimilation of the culture. People just rewrote their own traditions in a christian light. Hence why there is no biblical reason for a Evergreen in the house, for a wreath, for a yule log. Or painted Eggs on Easter. Or even naming the Day Easter.

These "Holidays" are celebrated by Secularist, Atheist, Secular Christians, Muslims, pretty much everyone in America.

I have found that the more Orthodox Christians, and those with a real understanding of Scripture do not celebrate Christmas. And the more earnestly celebrate Ash Wednesday or lent.

Thanks for acknowledging that christianity stole the winter solstice holiday. As you point out the day christmas is celebrated bears no links to Jesus's birth date. many people though falsely believe jesus was born on December 25th. Its true its a commercial holiday these days and is often celebrated by non Christians.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/19/2016 2:05:26 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:50:42 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:27:46 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:09:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Christians stole the Winter Solstice holiday

Despite no scriptural evidence, Christians came to claim December 25 as Jesus"s birthday. This was a flagrant and disingenuous act to usurp the pre-existing pagan celebrations of the winter solstice. Meanwhile, most Biblical historians who believe Jesus to be a historical figure concur that his birth occurred in the springtime.

The following is taken from:

http://nobeliefs.com...

Christians celebrate the Nativity, or the birth of the alleged Jesus every December 25. Contrary to belief, there exists no evidence for a Jesus born on a December. Not a single shred of Biblical text declares this date, nor gives a hint of a winter season birth for a Jesus "the Christ." In fact, there occurs not a tad of evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus!

The Christmas that we celebrate today derived from pre-Christian Germanic, Roman, and Celtic people who celebrated the winter solstice. The use of holly, mistletoe, yule logs, wassail bowls, and decorating a tree derived from early pagan customs. Many European countries still call this celebration "Yule-tide" meaning "wheel time," the cycles of time. None of these derive from Christian origin.

The Persian Mithras cult spread during the 3rd and 4th centuries B.C.E. and predates Christian ceremonies and rites such as: baptism, communion wafer, and Sunday rest. On December 25, the sacrifice of a bull celebrated the Sol invictus (the invincible sun) and signaled the birth of a young sun god who sprang from a rock or a cave in the form of a newborn infant.

The Romans celebrated the Winter Solstice on December 25th as a renewing of the sun every year. Also the Romans celebrated the festival of the Saturnalia from December 17th to the 24th to honor Saturn, the god of grain and agriculture. The festival consisted of a period of goodwill, devoted to visiting friends and the giving of gifts.

At the beginning of the first century, Christianity emerged as a fledgling religion but not until the 4th century did Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. The motive behind the introduction of this celebration aimed at subverting the practice of pagan rituals such as Mithra and Saturnalia. Pope Liberus introduced the Nativity on December 25th 354 C.E.. By the 5th century, the event became so customary that it began to mark the beginning of the ceremonial year.

The fact that Christians felt a need to steal a holiday by making a false claim indicates the fragile state that it was in at the time. Also, the many pagan symbols that were retained within the Christmas tradition are an example of the myriad pagan theological elements that were ultimately incorporated into the core tenets of the faith. This external contamination polluted and distorted any semblance of the authentic elements of the historical Jesus.

Have you ever had an original thought?

By original I mean it is not an exact copy of some thing you saw or read somewhere.

I don't see your point. How does it matter if I thought of an argument or someone else? It just annoys you the excellent arguments I post highlight christianities many flaws. It's not as if Christians are reluctant to use the bible to back up their claims is it?

Do you know you sound like a tool?

What gives you that impression?

How is making valid arguments disproving Christianity in an way stupid?

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Anyway I thought I'd show you these threads I created to prove you wrong.

You haven't proven me wrong. Quite the Contrary.

Oh so why is that? Do you claim those arguments are copy and paste? Good luck finding them on the net, could be a long search.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 2:10:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 2:00:46 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:40:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Christmas isn't a religious holiday. It's a commercial one.

There are clues to Jesus birth in the bible. likely it was in July.

I think everyone knows that while the Early Catholic Church was making converts, the conversion was many times an assimilation of the culture. People just rewrote their own traditions in a christian light. Hence why there is no biblical reason for a Evergreen in the house, for a wreath, for a yule log. Or painted Eggs on Easter. Or even naming the Day Easter.

These "Holidays" are celebrated by Secularist, Atheist, Secular Christians, Muslims, pretty much everyone in America.

I have found that the more Orthodox Christians, and those with a real understanding of Scripture do not celebrate Christmas. And the more earnestly celebrate Ash Wednesday or lent.

Thanks for acknowledging that christianity stole the winter solstice holiday. As you point out the day christmas is celebrated bears no links to Jesus's birth date. many people though falsely believe jesus was born on December 25th. Its true its a commercial holiday these days and is often celebrated by non Christians.

I don't think Christians in the Church, who have studied scripture, who read their bibles, who research church history think Jesus was born on December 25th.

But if you want to claim a victory over a gross generalization, straw man, and patent misunderstanding of the celebrations, who am I to stop you.

Perhaps int he future instead of telling us what Christians believe and how it is wrong, you can begin with what you believe and how it is right.

Like what arguments you have for rejecting God no matter what evidence is presented to you? Or why you deny that you live in Sin or need salvation from judgement?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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3/19/2016 5:00:10 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday.

So you acknowledge the 25th is not the day Jesus was born yet it's to celebrate his birth ... Double think in action lol. You gloss over Christians appropriating pagan culture then play the victim to atheists following the local culture/tradition. You poor lamb! ha ha

I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Yea that's just cause you're really ignorant.

Alowite Muslims celebrate Christmas: http://countrystudies.us...
Christian sect celebrating Ramadan: http://www.wnd.com...
Islam sect Believe Buddha was a prophet: https://en.wikipedia.org...
The entire Sub-continent of India is a cultural melting pot of religions interweaving in harmony: http://www.indiacelebrating.com...
Bahai is a faith that says that celebrates all religious holidays: https://en.wikipedia.org...'%C3%AD_Faith
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 5:04:35 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:00:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday.

So you acknowledge the 25th is not the day Jesus was born yet it's to celebrate his birth ... Double think in action lol. You gloss over Christians appropriating pagan culture then play the victim to atheists following the local culture/tradition. You poor lamb! ha ha

I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Yea that's just cause you're really ignorant.

Alowite Muslims celebrate Christmas: http://countrystudies.us...
Christian sect celebrating Ramadan: http://www.wnd.com...
Islam sect Believe Buddha was a prophet: https://en.wikipedia.org...
The entire Sub-continent of India is a cultural melting pot of religions interweaving in harmony: http://www.indiacelebrating.com...
Bahai is a faith that says that celebrates all religious holidays: https://en.wikipedia.org...'%C3%AD_Faith

It doesn't matter when his birthday is celebrated. No one knows when he was born so they picked a day that already took part in celebrating. Pull your head out of your as*
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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3/19/2016 5:12:05 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:04:35 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

It doesn't matter when his birthday is celebrated. No one knows when he was born so they picked a day that already took part in celebrating. Pull your head out of your as*

What a disappointingly empty response. I point out the cracks in your logic and you revert to childish taunts.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 5:13:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:00:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday.

So you acknowledge the 25th is not the day Jesus was born yet it's to celebrate his birth ... Double think in action lol. You gloss over Christians appropriating pagan culture then play the victim to atheists following the local culture/tradition. You poor lamb! ha ha

I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Yea that's just cause you're really ignorant.

Alowite Muslims celebrate Christmas: http://countrystudies.us...
Christian sect celebrating Ramadan: http://www.wnd.com...
Islam sect Believe Buddha was a prophet: https://en.wikipedia.org...
The entire Sub-continent of India is a cultural melting pot of religions interweaving in harmony: http://www.indiacelebrating.com...
Bahai is a faith that says that celebrates all religious holidays: https://en.wikipedia.org...'%C3%AD_Faith

You obviously were playing with yourself while responding to me seeing none of it made any sense in any way, shape, or form. I have more money in my wallet than you'll see in your lifetime little bennett. No one cares little bennett. You have the intellect of a fresh puddle of cowcrap. Congrats little bennett. You've shown us that you are well...a complete di*k with ears and the comprehension of a monkey toddler. You don't ever get laid do you little bennett? I didn't think so.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 5:15:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:12:05 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 5:04:35 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
don't use childish taunts and expect intelligent rebuttle. Expect what you dished out or are you not man enough to take what you dish?
It doesn't matter when his birthday is celebrated. No one knows when he was born so they picked a day that already took part in celebrating. Pull your head out of your as*

What a disappointingly empty response. I point out the cracks in your logic and you revert to childish taunts.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 5:16:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:00:10 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 12:50:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

No one says Jesus was born on December 25th. It was already a celebatory day, so the celebration was remembered on that day. Atheists actually stole Christmas. Millions of Atheists celebrate the birth of Christ by passing out presents in memory of him and on a Christian holiday.

So you acknowledge the 25th is not the day Jesus was born yet it's to celebrate his birth ... Double think in action lol. You gloss over Christians appropriating pagan culture then play the victim to atheists following the local culture/tradition. You poor lamb! ha ha

I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do...

Yea that's just cause you're really ignorant.

Alowite Muslims celebrate Christmas: http://countrystudies.us...
Christian sect celebrating Ramadan: http://www.wnd.com...
Islam sect Believe Buddha was a prophet: https://en.wikipedia.org...
The entire Sub-continent of India is a cultural melting pot of religions interweaving in harmony: http://www.indiacelebrating.com...
Bahai is a faith that says that celebrates all religious holidays: https://en.wikipedia.org...'%C3%AD_Faith

All I hear is yap yap yap yap...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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3/19/2016 5:19:30 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:13:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

You obviously were playing with yourself while responding to me seeing none of it made any sense in any way, shape, or form. I have more money in my wallet than you'll see in your lifetime little bennett. No one cares little bennett. You have the intellect of a fresh puddle of cowcrap. Congrats little bennett. You've shown us that you are well...a complete di*k with ears and the comprehension of a monkey toddler. You don't ever get laid do you little bennett? I didn't think so.

Oh man did I set off a Trump bomb? Ha ha oh wow.

So when you said "I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do..."

And I showed you numerous examples of religious people celebrating religious holidays they are not specifically part of - that was wrong? Did it hurt you to see other peoples sharing culture?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 5:26:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:19:30 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 5:13:34 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

You obviously were playing with yourself while responding to me seeing none of it made any sense in any way, shape, or form. I have more money in my wallet than you'll see in your lifetime little bennett. No one cares little bennett. You have the intellect of a fresh puddle of cowcrap. Congrats little bennett. You've shown us that you are well...a complete di*k with ears and the comprehension of a monkey toddler. You don't ever get laid do you little bennett? I didn't think so.

Oh man did I set off a Trump bomb? Ha ha oh wow.

So when you said "I've never heard of celebrating a religions holidsys when you're not a part of the religion, but strangely Atheists do..."

And I showed you numerous examples of religious people celebrating religious holidays they are not specifically part of - that was wrong? Did it hurt you to see other peoples sharing culture?

You've been challenged to a debate. Back your words or cower in the corner like a girl. Your pick.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Bennett91
Posts: 4,205
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3/19/2016 5:41:06 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:26:08 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

You've been challenged to a debate. Back your words or cower in the corner like a girl. Your pick.

What exactly would a public debate accomplish? It's been done a thousand times. You can't even handle yourself in this forum.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/19/2016 8:04:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 2:10:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:00:46 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 1:40:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Christmas isn't a religious holiday. It's a commercial one.

There are clues to Jesus birth in the bible. likely it was in July.

I think everyone knows that while the Early Catholic Church was making converts, the conversion was many times an assimilation of the culture. People just rewrote their own traditions in a christian light. Hence why there is no biblical reason for a Evergreen in the house, for a wreath, for a yule log. Or painted Eggs on Easter. Or even naming the Day Easter.

These "Holidays" are celebrated by Secularist, Atheist, Secular Christians, Muslims, pretty much everyone in America.

I have found that the more Orthodox Christians, and those with a real understanding of Scripture do not celebrate Christmas. And the more earnestly celebrate Ash Wednesday or lent.

Thanks for acknowledging that christianity stole the winter solstice holiday. As you point out the day christmas is celebrated bears no links to Jesus's birth date. many people though falsely believe jesus was born on December 25th. Its true its a commercial holiday these days and is often celebrated by non Christians.

I don't think Christians in the Church, who have studied scripture, who read their bibles, who research church history think Jesus was born on December 25th.

I bet if I surveyed average Christians the majority would say Jesus was born on the 25th December. Few Christians actually study the bible in great detail. As a kid I went to many nativity services and there was no way from merely attending church you would obtain the belief jesus was born in july. You would assume he was born on December 25th.

But if you want to claim a victory over a gross generalization, straw man, and patent misunderstanding of the celebrations, who am I to stop you.

Do you blame me for educating people who may not be aware that Jesus's birthday was not the 25th December? You acknowledge yourself he was not born then so I dont see what problem you have with what I'm saying. It's abundantly clear the 25th December is used to celebrate Jesus's birthday because it was already a pagan celebration and celebrating it made it easier to attract pagan converts to Christianity.

Perhaps int he future instead of telling us what Christians believe and how it is wrong, you can begin with what you believe and how it is right.

I don't claim to have any knowledge of what happened prior to the big bang. Many theories exist but it's impossible in my view to know what actually happened. However I know through what I have learnt that christianity is wrong. It's a mythical lie concocted by men in the 1st century. I can think of dozens if not hundreds of reasons disproving the theory of Christianity.

Like what arguments you have for rejecting God no matter what evidence is presented to you? Or why you deny that you live in Sin or need salvation from judgement?

I've done that regularly on this site. I pick apart Christian scripture and prove its not the truth.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 1:00:27 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 5:41:06 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/19/2016 5:26:08 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

You've been challenged to a debate. Back your words or cower in the corner like a girl. Your pick.

What exactly would a public debate accomplish? It's been done a thousand times. You can't even handle yourself in this forum.

Don't use sour language and then saulk in bitterness when it's used back at you. You're a big girl. You'll be okay. Wsit, you're a Liberal, so maybe not. You'll probably preach peace and tolerance, and then become violent and intollerant like most Liberals do. Good luck with that.

You didn't accept the debate because you are afraid to. You are all mouth and no show. Want a trophy?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...