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The bible encourages murder of non believers.

Chloe8
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3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/17/2016 8:45:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

In the kingdom of Israel that was the law, so what. in the Christian age Christians (and most Jews except for resent years) by default live in nations not in agreement with such laws, so they by law are alien citizens though by birth of the flesh they are citizens of the nation they are in.
Chloe8
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3/17/2016 8:55:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 8:45:19 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

In the kingdom of Israel that was the law, so what. in the Christian age Christians (and most Jews except for resent years) by default live in nations not in agreement with such laws, so they by law are alien citizens though by birth of the flesh they are citizens of the nation they are in.

So you would support your government implementing old testament laws? Jesus commands Christians to follow them.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

Because they are not jusges set by God and they have not right to judge? Bible doesn"t give judges right for everyone.
Chloe8
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3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

Because they are not jusges set by God and they have not right to judge? Bible doesn"t give judges right for everyone.

So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/18/2016 2:27:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

It's particularly annoying when those who argue against the bible pretend like they have some secret awareness that those who STUDY the bible don't have. Of course, who am I to speak? I used to do the same when I was an atheist/anti-theist.

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

What does the entire passage say? He came to fulfill it, because no man could fulfill it we needed one who could. Imputation of Righteousness stems from this fulfillment. He firstly says he has not come to abolish the law, because contextually this is simply true and for anyone to (try) "abolish" the law would indicate that they are not a messenger of God. The law is not abolished in that it still functions as a standard. Those outside the law will be judged by it, those under the law will be judged by it, but those in Christ will be judged by the law of grace, which stems from the imputed righteousness from Christ's fulfillment of the law.

One of the main arguments of ignorance that I've heard and used myself is "why do you eat pork or shellfish??" Jesus removed the kosher laws by declaring all foods clean. Mark 7:18R39;He said to them, "Are you so foolish? Don"t you understand that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him?R39;7:19R39;For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer."R39;(This means all foods are clean.)R39;7:20R39;He said, "What comes out of a person defiles him.R39;7:21R39;For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder,R39;7:22R39;adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly.R39;7:23R39;All these evils come from within and defile a person." (NET Bible) He does not abolish those laws insofar as they teach the need to be pure of soul, the very point Jesus was making. Purity was the underlying principle taught by the semi-arbitrarily based concept of unclean foods. Pigs are unclean. God used their uncleanness to picture the need to be pure of heart.

Romans 1-9 explains the dynamics of Christians and the law after the law, and the letter to those in Galatia (Galatians) is a rebuttal against those trying to force Christians to adhere to the law for salvation. This is also seen as a struggle within the Jewish-Christian community as they dealt with Gentiles being ingrafted into the family (see Acts 12, I think).

A theme throughout the N.T. is Jesus' hatred of Legalism, especially that of hypocrisy. The problem became a "works" issue instead of a heart issue. Those who were under the law thought they achieved salvation from their works, but in truth, it is a heart matter. This, of course, led to missing the "heart of the law" which is found in the two most important commandments (love God and love your neighbors). This heart of the law is seen vividly in the 10 Commandments (I mention below).

So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

You're simply mistaken about the functions of the Old Testament law. The Torah presents different kinds of laws. Moral, Civil, Dietary, and Ceremonial laws. What is said by Jesus? The law is summed up in two commandments Love God and Love your neighbor. Love constituted as the descriptor in 1 Cor. 13:4-7.

The 10 Commandments were especially for Israel to which as Gentiles we were never a part of unless we were made into Israelites and brought into the Mosaic covenant. The moral principles can be seen and broken up here, though. The first four commandments address Man related to God (Love God) and the last six address Man related to Man (love your neighbor). This theme can be seen through all of the laws, regardless of how strange they seem to us today.

When looking at some laws we must consider (1) our day, time, and age is COMPLETELY different. (2) We are not Israel and did not receive these laws, these were specifically for Israel and show people that Israel is holy (set apart) by God, a sign of the covenant. From the 2 point ALONE the issue of the law is addressed.

2 Timothy 3:16 says that ALL scripture is useful for teaching and correcting and rebuking though, so how do we look at the Old Testament laws? By learning to distinguish moral issues from ceremonial (typically dealing with the temples), dietary, and Israel's civil issues. We also learn MORE about how Israel was specifically addressed in certain areas to which we can learn some practical means to living in accordance with Gods will. (the big difference is that a true christian conforms to those two commandments because they want to not because they are under the law unto salvation). Another way we learn from these laws are by learning that we are truly unclean, and sinful without the imputed righteousness of Christ, this also means then that we learn how Holy and Righteous God is. We also learn how Just God is. God cannot be good if he is not just, holy and righteous.

I hope I cleared up some of your confusion and would love to chat more given that I have the time. Feel free to message me I'd love to tell you about the covenants and thus the New Covenant and Why Jesus fulfilling the law is important for us.

- Logic in Life
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/18/2016 2:47:33 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

Oh and also;

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Simply put, people living within Israel, even if they aren't in the covenant will have the punishment if they break the law. Don't we get in trouble for breaking laws in other countries? Same applies here. The death penalty was a thing in Israel, same standard. It in no way is like other religious texts outside of Christianity where it says "Kill the infidels."

Notice as well that this by the passage it self is NOT applied to Christians "towns which the LORD your God is giving you" implies any piece of Israel as per the promise to Abraham. The United States and its people are NOT the Israelites in the Holy Land. Notice as well, "transgressing his covenant" which (1) implies breaking the laws of the nation and (2) implies simply that a covenant in which we are under the New covenant, not the Mosaic covenant.

Simply reading the passage exterminates your premise.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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3/18/2016 9:37:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

On basis of what the Bible tells, God"s Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I support that.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,576
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3/18/2016 10:07:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 2:27:56 AM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

It's particularly annoying when those who argue against the bible pretend like they have some secret awareness that those who STUDY the bible don't have. Of course, who am I to speak? I used to do the same when I was an atheist/anti-theist.

I don't claim to know any secrets in the bible. I just like to show people who haven't noticed that it is fundamentally flawed.

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

What does the entire passage say? He came to fulfill it, because no man could fulfill it we needed one who could. Imputation of Righteousness stems from this fulfillment. He firstly says he has not come to abolish the law, because contextually this is simply true and for anyone to (try) "abolish" the law would indicate that they are not a messenger of God. The law is not abolished in that it still functions as a standard. Those outside the law will be judged by it, those under the law will be judged by it, but those in Christ will be judged by the law of grace, which stems from the imputed righteousness from Christ's fulfillment of the law.

You have effectively tried to take a half way position on the laws of the old testament. You have not actually dismissed them entirely. Jesus failed to fulfil Jewish prophecy.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah. Therefore Jesus was a false prophet and was not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.

One of the main arguments of ignorance that I've heard and used myself is "why do you eat pork or shellfish??" Jesus removed the kosher laws by declaring all foods clean. Mark 7:18R39;He said to them, "Are you so foolish? Don"t you understand that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him?R39;7:19R39;For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer."R39;(This means all foods are clean.)R39;7:20R39;He said, "What comes out of a person defiles him.R39;7:21R39;For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder,R39;7:22R39;adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly.R39;7:23R39;All these evils come from within and defile a person." (NET Bible) He does not abolish those laws insofar as they teach the need to be pure of soul, the very point Jesus was making. Purity was the underlying principle taught by the semi-arbitrarily based concept of unclean foods. Pigs are unclean. God used their uncleanness to picture the need to be pure of heart.

What a load of rubbish. Why would a god prohibit eating certain animals. The funny thing is pigs are actually the cleanest type of modern farm animal! They are clever enough to select to deposit foecus and urine in selected areas of their environment to keep the rest of it clean unlike other farm animals like sheep and cattle.

So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

No proscription of slavery
No proscription of child endangerment
No proscription of bigotry
No proscription of racism
No proscription of sexism
No proscription of classism
No proscription of blackmail or bribery
No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons
No proscription of incest
No proscription of torture or terrorism
No proscription of rape
No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations
No command to treat animals humanely
No command to take care of the earth"s environment
No command to help others in need
No command to settle disputes peacefully
No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly
It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

Additionally, most Christians do not realize that there are two versions of the 10 Commandments, one in Exodus 20 and the other in Exodus 34. The second version bears little resemblance to the first, but they were the only ones referred to as the 10 Commandments. Christians use the first version, though it appears by reading Exodus that they were superseded by the second version after Moses allegedly smashed the original tablets.

http://rationalwiki.org...

I hope I cleared up some of your confusion and would love to chat more given that I have the time. Feel free to message me I'd love to tell you about the covenants and thus the New Covenant and Why Jesus fulfilling the law is important for us.

- Logic in Life

The waffle about being unclean without God is empty meaningless nonsense. If your looking to convert someone to Christianity look somewhere else for someone vulnerable and logically inept. I'm too clever to fall for the utter rubbish preached by Christians.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,576
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3/18/2016 10:10:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 9:37:38 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

On basis of what the Bible tells, God"s Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I support that.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

No proscription of slavery
No proscription of child endangerment
No proscription of bigotry
No proscription of racism
No proscription of sexism
No proscription of classism
No proscription of blackmail or bribery
No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons
No proscription of incest
No proscription of torture or terrorism
No proscription of rape
No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations
No command to treat animals humanely
No command to take care of the earth"s environment
No command to help others in need
No command to settle disputes peacefully
No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly
It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

Additionally, most Christians do not realize that there are two versions of the 10 Commandments, one in Exodus 20 and the other in Exodus 34. The second version bears little resemblance to the first, but they were the only ones referred to as the 10 Commandments. Christians use the first version, though it appears by reading Exodus that they were superseded by the second version after Moses allegedly smashed the original tablets.

http://rationalwiki.org...
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/18/2016 11:29:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 10:10:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 9:37:38 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

On basis of what the Bible tells, God"s Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I support that.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

They logically connect, and you're analysis on the 10 commandments is wrong.

No proscription of slavery

Slavery that you know is VASTLY different from the slavery of the Hebrews. In most cases, even during Roman rule, Slavery became voluntary and the OT laws addressed slavery in B.C.E in a way no other civilization had heard of. Do you forget as well that Christian principles led to the abolishment of slavery in the U.S? Regardless, you're being intellectually dishonest when you compare slavery. The New Testament advocates for Christians to release N.T slaves, but many slaves were voluntary because they couldn't have work otherwise.

No proscription of child endangerment

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of bigotry

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of racism

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of sexism

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of classism

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of blackmail or bribery

Wrong. Exodus 23:8 ESV - "And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right." http://www.openbible.info...

No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons

That is because LGBTQ is unnatural biologically and in accordance with God's design of the human body and functions. Discrimination in itself? "love your neighbor"

No proscription of incest

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of torture or terrorism

"love your neighbor"

No proscription of rape

"love your neighbor"

No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations

"love your neighbor"

No command to treat animals humanely

Because animals aren't human. And actually you're wrong again, there are extensive laws on the value of animals.

No command to take care of the earth"s environment

This was commanded in that we are the stuarts of God's world. Silly comment.

No command to help others in need

ARE YOU KIDDING?! Oh my goodness.

No command to settle disputes peacefully

Again, really?!

No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly

Socialism?

It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

It IS obvious you know LITTLE of the bible.

Why don't you actually read the bible instead of just picking off of copy cat arguments from the internet?
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/18/2016 11:30:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 10:07:38 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 2:27:56 AM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

It's particularly annoying when those who argue against the bible pretend like they have some secret awareness that those who STUDY the bible don't have. Of course, who am I to speak? I used to do the same when I was an atheist/anti-theist.

I don't claim to know any secrets in the bible. I just like to show people who haven't noticed that it is fundamentally flawed.

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

What does the entire passage say? He came to fulfill it, because no man could fulfill it we needed one who could. Imputation of Righteousness stems from this fulfillment. He firstly says he has not come to abolish the law, because contextually this is simply true and for anyone to (try) "abolish" the law would indicate that they are not a messenger of God. The law is not abolished in that it still functions as a standard. Those outside the law will be judged by it, those under the law will be judged by it, but those in Christ will be judged by the law of grace, which stems from the imputed righteousness from Christ's fulfillment of the law.

You have effectively tried to take a half way position on the laws of the old testament. You have not actually dismissed them entirely. Jesus failed to fulfil Jewish prophecy.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah. Therefore Jesus was a false prophet and was not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.

One of the main arguments of ignorance that I've heard and used myself is "why do you eat pork or shellfish??" Jesus removed the kosher laws by declaring all foods clean. Mark 7:18R39;He said to them, "Are you so foolish? Don"t you understand that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him?R39;7:19R39;For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer."R39;(This means all foods are clean.)R39;7:20R39;He said, "What comes out of a person defiles him.R39;7:21R39;For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder,R39;7:22R39;adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly.R39;7:23R39;All these evils come from within and defile a person." (NET Bible) He does not abolish those laws insofar as they teach the need to be pure of soul, the very point Jesus was making. Purity was the underlying principle taught by the semi-arbitrarily based concept of unclean foods. Pigs are unclean. God used their uncleanness to picture the need to be pure of heart.

What a load of rubbish. Why would a god prohibit eating certain animals. The funny thing is pigs are actually the cleanest type of modern farm animal! They are clever enough to select to deposit foecus and urine in selected areas of their environment to keep the rest of it clean unlike other farm animals like sheep and cattle.

So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

No proscription of slavery
No proscription of child endangerment
No proscription of bigotry
No proscription of racism
No proscription of sexism
No proscription of classism
No proscription of blackmail or bribery
No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons
No proscription of incest
No proscription of torture or terrorism
No proscription of rape
No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations
No command to treat animals humanely
No command to take care of the earth"s environment
No command to help others in need
No command to settle disputes peacefully
No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly
It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

Additionally, most Christians do not realize that there are two versions of the 10 Commandments, one in Exodus 20 and the other in Exodus 34. The second version bears little resemblance to the first, but they were the only ones referred to as the 10 Commandments. Christians use the first version, though it appears by reading Exodus that they were superseded by the second version after Moses allegedly smashed the original tablets.

http://rationalwiki.org...

I hope I cleared up some of your confusion and would love to chat more given that I have the time. Feel free to message me I'd love to tell you about the covenants and thus the New Covenant and Why Jesus fulfilling the law is important for us.

- Logic in Life

The waffle about being unclean without God is empty meaningless nonsense. If your looking to convert someone to Christianity look somewhere else for someone vulnerable and logically inept. I'm too clever to fall for the utter rubbish preached by Christians.

You proven that you are NOT too clever as you were intellectually dishonest in nearly every response on this forum, specifically, the post that started this post.
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/18/2016 11:31:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

This is a copy and paste so that others can see how you tried to manipulate the text for your agenda, thus merely showing that you have no objective rationality on the subject or awareness on how to properly examine texts.

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Simply put, people living within Israel, even if they aren't in the covenant will have the punishment if they break the law. Don't we get in trouble for breaking laws in other countries? Same applies here. The death penalty was a thing in Israel, same standard. It in no way is like other religious texts outside of Christianity where it says "Kill the infidels."

Notice as well that this by the passage it self is NOT applied to Christians "towns which the LORD your God is giving you" implies any piece of Israel as per the promise to Abraham. The United States and its people are NOT the Israelites in the Holy Land. Notice as well, "transgressing his covenant" which (1) implies breaking the laws of the nation and (2) implies simply that a covenant in which we are under the New covenant, not the Mosaic covenant.

Simply reading the passage exterminates your premise.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,576
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3/19/2016 12:37:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 11:29:16 PM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/18/2016 10:10:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 9:37:38 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

On basis of what the Bible tells, God"s Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I support that.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

They logically connect, and you're analysis on the 10 commandments is wrong.

No proscription of slavery

Slavery that you know is VASTLY different from the slavery of the Hebrews. In most cases, even during Roman rule, Slavery became voluntary and the OT laws addressed slavery in B.C.E in a way no other civilization had heard of. Do you forget as well that Christian principles led to the abolishment of slavery in the U.S? Regardless, you're being intellectually dishonest when you compare slavery. The New Testament advocates for Christians to release N.T slaves, but many slaves were voluntary because they couldn't have work otherwise.

Well your wrong here. I assume you either missed these parts of the bible during your extensive studies or just choose to ignore them.

Exodus 21:20

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

What a just and good god you worship. It's okay to beat a slave with a rod as long as they don't kill them.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."

Elements of racism as well here.

Ephesians 6:5-8:

"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free."

God Sounds nice dosent it. Fear me or I will punish you is the message.

No proscription of child endangerment

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of bigotry

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of racism

"love your neighbor"

I can find you countless examples of bible racism. It's clear god does not oppose it in any way and even encourages it.

No proscription of sexism

"love your neighbor"

The bible is full of sexism. It actually encourages men to think of themselves as superior to women and force them to be subservient and obedient. It also implies they are intellectually inferior which is shown to be incorrect by modern society. I can show you bible sexism if you want.

No proscription of classism

"love your neighbor"

It actually encourages the Israelites to think of themselves as superior.

No proscription of blackmail or bribery

Wrong. Exodus 23:8 ESV - "And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right." http://www.openbible.info...

Well done for successfully refuting my claim about bribery but what about blackmail?

No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons

That is because LGBTQ is unnatural biologically and in accordance with God's design of the human body and functions. Discrimination in itself? "love your neighbor"

Homophobic nonsense. It's clearly natural behaviour as shown by the animal kingdom. Why would a god give humans homosexual thoughts if he didn't like it anyway.

No proscription of incest

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of torture or terrorism

"love your neighbor"

Vague. The bible actually promotes capital punishment.

No proscription of rape

"love your neighbor"

The bible is not bothered by rape. A rapist can even pay a victim's father and force her to marry him.

No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations

"love your neighbor"

Vague and does not cover this like all the other points.

No command to treat animals humanely

Because animals aren't human. And actually you're wrong again, there are extensive laws on the value of animals.

Show me them.

No command to take care of the earth"s environment

This was commanded in that we are the stuarts of God's world. Silly comment.

It does not imply specially how God wants us to maintain or manage earth. It implies we can do what we like.

No command to help others in need

ARE YOU KIDDING?! Oh my goodness.

It is not listed in the ten commandments. So is not one of God's main commands.

No command to settle disputes peacefully

Again, really?!

Do you see it written in the ten commandments?

No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly

Socialism?

I'm not a socialist but you would think God would be.

It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

It IS obvious you know LITTLE of the bible.

I know enough about it to see it for what it really is.

Why don't you actually read the bible instead of just picking off of copy cat arguments from the internet?

Me using valid arguments off the internet is no different to you using arguments from scripture. The fact is you cannot refute these arguments whether they are of my making or someone else's. I know and have read more of the bible than most half hearted Christians who attend church 3 times a year.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,576
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3/19/2016 12:57:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 11:30:30 PM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/18/2016 10:07:38 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 2:27:56 AM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:02:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

It's particularly annoying when those who argue against the bible pretend like they have some secret awareness that those who STUDY the bible don't have. Of course, who am I to speak? I used to do the same when I was an atheist/anti-theist.

I don't claim to know any secrets in the bible. I just like to show people who haven't noticed that it is fundamentally flawed.

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

What does the entire passage say? He came to fulfill it, because no man could fulfill it we needed one who could. Imputation of Righteousness stems from this fulfillment. He firstly says he has not come to abolish the law, because contextually this is simply true and for anyone to (try) "abolish" the law would indicate that they are not a messenger of God. The law is not abolished in that it still functions as a standard. Those outside the law will be judged by it, those under the law will be judged by it, but those in Christ will be judged by the law of grace, which stems from the imputed righteousness from Christ's fulfillment of the law.

You have effectively tried to take a half way position on the laws of the old testament. You have not actually dismissed them entirely. Jesus failed to fulfil Jewish prophecy.

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah. Therefore Jesus was a false prophet and was not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.

One of the main arguments of ignorance that I've heard and used myself is "why do you eat pork or shellfish??" Jesus removed the kosher laws by declaring all foods clean. Mark 7:18R39;He said to them, "Are you so foolish? Don"t you understand that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him?R39;7:19R39;For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer."R39;(This means all foods are clean.)R39;7:20R39;He said, "What comes out of a person defiles him.R39;7:21R39;For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder,R39;7:22R39;adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly.R39;7:23R39;All these evils come from within and defile a person." (NET Bible) He does not abolish those laws insofar as they teach the need to be pure of soul, the very point Jesus was making. Purity was the underlying principle taught by the semi-arbitrarily based concept of unclean foods. Pigs are unclean. God used their uncleanness to picture the need to be pure of heart.

What a load of rubbish. Why would a god prohibit eating certain animals. The funny thing is pigs are actually the cleanest type of modern farm animal! They are clever enough to select to deposit foecus and urine in selected areas of their environment to keep the rest of it clean unlike other farm animals like sheep and cattle.

So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

No proscription of slavery
No proscription of child endangerment
No proscription of bigotry
No proscription of racism
No proscription of sexism
No proscription of classism
No proscription of blackmail or bribery
No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons
No proscription of incest
No proscription of torture or terrorism
No proscription of rape
No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations
No command to treat animals humanely
No command to take care of the earth"s environment
No command to help others in need
No command to settle disputes peacefully
No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly
It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

Additionally, most Christians do not realize that there are two versions of the 10 Commandments, one in Exodus 20 and the other in Exodus 34. The second version bears little resemblance to the first, but they were the only ones referred to as the 10 Commandments. Christians use the first version, though it appears by reading Exodus that they were superseded by the second version after Moses allegedly smashed the original tablets.

http://rationalwiki.org...

I hope I cleared up some of your confusion and would love to chat more given that I have the time. Feel free to message me I'd love to tell you about the covenants and thus the New Covenant and Why Jesus fulfilling the law is important for us.

- Logic in Life

The waffle about being unclean without God is empty meaningless nonsense. If your looking to convert someone to Christianity look somewhere else for someone vulnerable and logically inept. I'm too clever to fall for the utter rubbish preached by Christians.

You proven that you are NOT too clever as you were intellectually dishonest in nearly every response on this forum, specifically, the post that started this post.

How about attempting to address why two separate contradictory lists of commandments exist and why unlike most Christian scripture the earlier list has precedence over the latter one?

I'm being intellectually honest. The problem is you dislike the fact reality is different to how you perceive it. You try to use unvarified myths to back up your claims but they are inadequate. I stated the bible encourages murder of non believers because it is actually in the bible. I didn't make it up. Intellectual honesty is also irrelevant to someone's intelligence so your point is invalid anyway. If your wondering my iq is 122. Studies show that people with significantly above average iq like myself are more likely to not be atheists. You would think if Christianity was so logical those with significantly above average intelligence would be Christians.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/19/2016 1:06:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 12:37:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 11:29:16 PM, logicinlife wrote:
At 3/18/2016 10:10:51 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/18/2016 9:37:38 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/17/2016 9:33:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you would support the implementation of old testament laws? Many politicians and judges are Christians yet old testament laws are ignored.

On basis of what the Bible tells, God"s Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I support that.

The Ten Commandments have been presented as the ultimate guide to human morality. But a close inspection reveals that only five have a meaningful impact- do not steal, do not perjure, do not kill, honor your parents, and don"t commit adultery. Just as revealing is what is not included:

They logically connect, and you're analysis on the 10 commandments is wrong.

No proscription of slavery

Slavery that you know is VASTLY different from the slavery of the Hebrews. In most cases, even during Roman rule, Slavery became voluntary and the OT laws addressed slavery in B.C.E in a way no other civilization had heard of. Do you forget as well that Christian principles led to the abolishment of slavery in the U.S? Regardless, you're being intellectually dishonest when you compare slavery. The New Testament advocates for Christians to release N.T slaves, but many slaves were voluntary because they couldn't have work otherwise.

Well your wrong here. I assume you either missed these parts of the bible during your extensive studies or just choose to ignore them.

Exodus 21:20

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

What a just and good god you worship. It's okay to beat a slave with a rod as long as they don't kill them.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."

Elements of racism as well here.

Ephesians 6:5-8:

"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free."

God Sounds nice dosent it. Fear me or I will punish you is the message.

No proscription of child endangerment

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of bigotry

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of racism

"love your neighbor"

I can find you countless examples of bible racism. It's clear god does not oppose it in any way and even encourages it.

No proscription of sexism

"love your neighbor"

The bible is full of sexism. It actually encourages men to think of themselves as superior to women and force them to be subservient and obedient. It also implies they are intellectually inferior which is shown to be incorrect by modern society. I can show you bible sexism if you want.

No proscription of classism

"love your neighbor"

It actually encourages the Israelites to think of themselves as superior.

No proscription of blackmail or bribery

Wrong. Exodus 23:8 ESV - "And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of those who are in the right." http://www.openbible.info...

Well done for successfully refuting my claim about bribery but what about blackmail?

No proscription of discrimination against LGBTQ persons

That is because LGBTQ is unnatural biologically and in accordance with God's design of the human body and functions. Discrimination in itself? "love your neighbor"

Homophobic nonsense. It's clearly natural behaviour as shown by the animal kingdom. Why would a god give humans homosexual thoughts if he didn't like it anyway.

No proscription of incest

"love your neighbor"

Vague.

No proscription of torture or terrorism

"love your neighbor"

Vague. The bible actually promotes capital punishment.

No proscription of rape

"love your neighbor"

The bible is not bothered by rape. A rapist can even pay a victim's father and force her to marry him.

No proscription against the mistreatment, exploitation, and relocation of native populations

"love your neighbor"

Vague and does not cover this like all the other points.

No command to treat animals humanely

Because animals aren't human. And actually you're wrong again, there are extensive laws on the value of animals.

Show me them.

No command to take care of the earth"s environment

This was commanded in that we are the stuarts of God's world. Silly comment.

It does not imply specially how God wants us to maintain or manage earth. It implies we can do what we like.

No command to help others in need

ARE YOU KIDDING?! Oh my goodness.

It is not listed in the ten commandments. So is not one of God's main commands.

No command to settle disputes peacefully

Again, really?!

Do you see it written in the ten commandments?

No command to distribute the earth"s resources fairly

Socialism?

I'm not a socialist but you would think God would be.

It should be obvious that an all-knowing , all-wise, all- discerning, supernatural god would have devised a much better set of rules for mankind, a set that would have placed humanity on a more peaceful, loving, and kind trajectory that the one we have experienced.

It IS obvious you know LITTLE of the bible.

I know enough about it to see it for what it really is.

Why don't you actually read the bible instead of just picking off of copy cat arguments from the internet?

Me using valid arguments off the internet is no different to you using arguments from scripture. The fact is you cannot refute these arguments whether they are of my making or someone else's. I know and have read more of the bible than most half hearted Christians who attend church 3 times a year.

Understand that all books most be understood taking into account 1. the audience 2, time periods 3. language. 4. location

It's a form of bias to read the bible applying what connotations the words may have today, or strawmanning what you think the verse means.

Instead of going to your favorite Atheist website and reading one or two passages out of context,
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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3/19/2016 1:47:31 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 1:06:47 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Understand that all books most be understood taking into account 1. the audience 2, time periods 3. language. 4. location
Make up your mind, it's either a book like that written by men or it's the word of god and those restrictions don't apply.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 2:19:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

It also says to stone adulterers and refrain from pork. Of which Christ denounced. You have theologically derailed by using an Atheist confirmation bias in order to dismiss Jesus Christ completely in order to satisfy your hatred for Christians, and to justify your lack of belief by using undefined objective morality on an omniscient variable, meaning He knows the future when you do not. You are dismissing any idea that omniscient morality comes attached with different "rules" per say. If I killed Hitler as a child, am I immoral knowing he murders 5 million people? Tell us the anseer thou omniscient one? Tell us how your defined objective morality works, how it applies to an omniscient being that you have no knowledge of what He sees coming, and tell us what it is based on.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/19/2016 2:26:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?

Jesus didn't believe in the commands you have presented. (Seeing he ate whatever he wished, didn't perform the Moses' washing of hands commands, and refused to stone adulterers or hurt anyone, even saying turn the other cheek, pray for your enemies, and love your enemies). You have attached Judaism religion to Jesus after He abolished it, renounced it, and killed it. You have created your own religion and tried to pass it to us as though it were ours. It's a theological false dichotomy. What you have become is a Pharisee, of whom Jesus
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/19/2016 2:27:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Stood against.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 2:30:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Let's see what all Chloe missed in her hatred and bigotry towards Christians:

Jesus replied, "'You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.'
(Matthew 22:37)

This is the first and greatest commandment.
(Matthew 22:38)

And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
(Matthew 22:39)

The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."
(Matthew22:4)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/19/2016 2:32:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Hmmmm....what law could that be? None of "the law" that Jesus talks about is covered by the old covenant rules for Jews.

Let's see what law He actually was talking about that Chloe in ignorance has completely missed.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 2:34:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/19/2016 2:37:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
10 Commandments

You shall have no other gods before Me.
(Love God)
You shall not make idols.
(Love God)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
(Love God)
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(Love God)
Honor your father and your mother.
(Love your parents)
You shall not murder.
(Love your neighbor and enemy)
You shall not commit adultery.
(Love your mate)
You shall not steal.
(Love your neighbor and enemy)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
(Love your neighbor)
You shall not covet.
(Love your neighbor and enemy)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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3/19/2016 2:39:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 7:16:04 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Deuteronomy 17:2-5, we read the following commandment from God:

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death."

Christians will claim that this commandment no longer applies because it is in the Old Testament, though they will also claim that God never changes. Also, they will conveniently forget Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says:

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

If Jesus believed in this law and declared that it was not to be abolished, then why don"t modern Christians obey it?
Absolutely pathetic . . . That is in the Old Testament. The New Testament is the only relevant book to Christians. The Old Testament is only a history book . . .
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
brontoraptor
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3/19/2016 2:39:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Let's look at the above. Now let's look at Jesus again.

Jesus replied, "'You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.'
(Matthew 22:37)

This is the first and greatest commandment.
(Matthew 22:38)

And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
(Matthew 22:39)

The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."
(Matthew 22:4)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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3/19/2016 2:40:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 2:34:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
Don't cook your kid in it's mothers milk.
That's a f*ckin' beaut.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/19/2016 3:17:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 2:40:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:34:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
Don't cook your kid in it's mothers milk.
That's a f*ckin' beaut.

Which is what the Israelites were doing. (Of course the verse is speaking of goats, not human children as the rabid atheist hopes and yearns for it to mean). That would explain why they had so many rules. They were the youth of modern day intelligence. They only understood black and white rules from having been uneducated slaves in ancient times. It was like training a heard of donkeys(or bullproofs), whichever you prefer.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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3/19/2016 3:41:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 3:17:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:40:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:34:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
Don't cook your kid in it's mothers milk.
That's a f*ckin' beaut.

Which is what the Israelites were doing. (Of course the verse is speaking of goats, not human children as the rabid atheist hopes and yearns for it to mean). That would explain why they had so many rules. They were the youth of modern day intelligence. They only understood black and white rules from having been uneducated slaves in ancient times. It was like training a heard of donkeys(or bullproofs), whichever you prefer.
It's one of the "ten" commandments that your god gave to Moses.
Why do you denigrate your god's commandments?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
logicinlife
Posts: 31
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3/19/2016 4:38:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 3:41:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/19/2016 3:17:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:40:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/19/2016 2:34:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
Don't cook your kid in it's mothers milk.
That's a f*ckin' beaut.

Which is what the Israelites were doing. (Of course the verse is speaking of goats, not human children as the rabid atheist hopes and yearns for it to mean). That would explain why they had so many rules. They were the youth of modern day intelligence. They only understood black and white rules from having been uneducated slaves in ancient times. It was like training a heard of donkeys(or bullproofs), whichever you prefer.
It's one of the "ten" commandments that your god gave to Moses.
Why do you denigrate your god's commandments?

SMH. Again, really, read the bible for yourself if you wish to contend it. Properly, as any old documents should be read, with context in mind. AND YES it matters, many phrases, metaphors, and society driven texts are allusive to us. It is just poor reading skills to not consider these things. When you read a document about WW2 do you assume that they are talking directly to you? Likewise, when God tells the Israelites to build the first temple of Jerusalem, should I go and do that? Of course not. Being intellectually dishonest is distasteful. period.