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Religion Must Have Its Contradictions

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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3/18/2016 3:25:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
In religion, we find, as in a dream, contradiction. The motifs in themselves defy logic. Consider the miraculous births of many mythologies, theanthropism found in ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greek mythologies, as well as in Christianity; the concept of the resurrection, an ancient motif of the dying-and-rising god, is not particular to Christianity. An infertile or virgin woman giving birth to a child, a man who is both human and divine, and a dead god being brought back to life are all concepts that defy logic.

It is a belief in contradiction, a suspension of reason, that imbues religion with mystery and wonder; it removes it from the natural every-day world and places it behind a veil. Without a belief in contradiction, faith is lost, life becomes very predictable and mundane, mystery is dead. As a child, not understanding the mechanics of the virgin birth, the Incarnation, or the resurrection of Christ imbued me with a mysterious experience I can only describe as spiritual. Once I reached the age of reason and started to doubt these contradictions, all sense of spirituality was lost.

I cannot return to innocence and revive those dead relics of the Christian faith. Once reason has vanquished faith, new contradictions, things that escape the scrutiny of science must be born. Religions come and religions go; old religions seed new ones. Faith and reason are entangled in a deadly but eternal dance. As long as contradiction remains, wonder and mystery will continue to evoke the heart of the believer.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/18/2016 8:10:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 3:25:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In religion, we find, as in a dream, contradiction. The motifs in themselves defy logic. Consider the miraculous births of many mythologies, theanthropism found in ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greek mythologies, as well as in Christianity; the concept of the resurrection, an ancient motif of the dying-and-rising god, is not particular to Christianity. An infertile or virgin woman giving birth to a child, a man who is both human and divine, and a dead god being brought back to life are all concepts that defy logic.

It is a belief in contradiction, a suspension of reason, that imbues religion with mystery and wonder; it removes it from the natural every-day world and places it behind a veil. Without a belief in contradiction, faith is lost, life becomes very predictable and mundane, mystery is dead. As a child, not understanding the mechanics of the virgin birth, the Incarnation, or the resurrection of Christ imbued me with a mysterious experience I can only describe as spiritual. Once I reached the age of reason and started to doubt these contradictions, all sense of spirituality was lost.

I cannot return to innocence and revive those dead relics of the Christian faith. Once reason has vanquished faith, new contradictions, things that escape the scrutiny of science must be born. Religions come and religions go; old religions seed new ones. Faith and reason are entangled in a deadly but eternal dance. As long as contradiction remains, wonder and mystery will continue to evoke the heart of the believer.

It is said science explains how the universe is made. But religion explains why the universe is made. science offers a materialistic, deterministic view of the world, religion looks for a more purposeful view of the world. So the contradictions are really between what we know and what we aspire for. The contradictions are the gaps we see in our knowledge to reconcile the two.

If you are less presumptious that your knowledge has made the dichotomies mute and accept there is so much that is still beyond your grasp. They you will still retain your innocence in proportion to your ignorance.

Spirituality is only relevant to an individual if there is a another place where he would rather be than the one he is presently in. It is a transcendental escape from the physical and material world to a state of being where these contradictions collapse.
If Jesus was only a little more articulate and coherent, he would not have left his followers in a state of limbo or forced a suspension of reason. But you have the luxury of time, he was running on a tighter schedule. Explore your possibilities. Utopia should always be a little beyond a man's reach, or what is a heaven for.

Quantum Theory has opened our understanding that what we see is not necessarily what things are. that all things exist in a state of possibility until observed. In short our consciousness shapes our reality. You are not without resources. Shape your own reality.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/18/2016 8:40:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 3:25:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In religion, we find, as in a dream, contradiction. The motifs in themselves defy logic. Consider the miraculous births of many mythologies, theanthropism found in ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greek mythologies, as well as in Christianity; the concept of the resurrection, an ancient motif of the dying-and-rising god, is not particular to Christianity. An infertile or virgin woman giving birth to a child, a man who is both human and divine, and a dead god being brought back to life are all concepts that defy logic.

It is a belief in contradiction, a suspension of reason, that imbues religion with mystery and wonder; it removes it from the natural every-day world and places it behind a veil. Without a belief in contradiction, faith is lost, life becomes very predictable and mundane, mystery is dead. As a child, not understanding the mechanics of the virgin birth, the Incarnation, or the resurrection of Christ imbued me with a mysterious experience I can only describe as spiritual. Once I reached the age of reason and started to doubt these contradictions, all sense of spirituality was lost.

I cannot return to innocence and revive those dead relics of the Christian faith. Once reason has vanquished faith, new contradictions, things that escape the scrutiny of science must be born. Religions come and religions go; old religions seed new ones. Faith and reason are entangled in a deadly but eternal dance. As long as contradiction remains, wonder and mystery will continue to evoke the heart of the believer.

Wrong, though it may well appear to have to those without a desire to get at the buried treasure that is the truth.

The Bible has many passages which on the surface appear to be contradiction, but in reality not one is in the slightest.

It is God's word. God does not contradict himself. If you cannot get beyond the appearance of a contradiction, you are simply not trying hard enough to understand what it really says.

In fact that is the only reliable test of whether or not your understanding is correct.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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3/19/2016 3:20:18 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
It is said science explains how the universe is made. But religion explains why the universe is made. science offers a materialistic, deterministic view of the world, religion looks for a more purposeful view of the world. So the contradictions are really between what we know and what we aspire for. The contradictions are the gaps we see in our knowledge to reconcile the two.

I agree.

If you are less presumptious that your knowledge has made the dichotomies mute and accept there is so much that is still beyond your grasp. They you will still retain your innocence in proportion to your ignorance.

I completely agree.

Spirituality is only relevant to an individual if there is a another place where he would rather be than the one he is presently in. It is a transcendental escape from the physical and material world to a state of being where these contradictions collapse.

I believe a spirit is substantial, meaning it is delineated by that which it is not. As long as there is spirituality, there will be that which is not spiritual; there will be contradiction.

If Jesus was only a little more articulate and coherent, he would not have left his followers in a state of limbo or forced a suspension of reason. But you have the luxury of time, he was running on a tighter schedule.

I believe the suspension of reason was his intent.

Explore your possibilities. Utopia should always be a little beyond a man's reach, or what is a heaven for.

I love that. I see a lot of wisdom in that statement.

Quantum Theory has opened our understanding that what we see is not necessarily what things are. that all things exist in a state of possibility until observed. In short our consciousness shapes our reality. You are not without resources. Shape your own reality.

I believe our unconsciousness does too.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/21/2016 4:03:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/19/2016 3:20:18 AM, s-anthony wrote:
It is said science explains how the universe is made. But religion explains why the universe is made. science offers a materialistic, deterministic view of the world, religion looks for a more purposeful view of the world. So the contradictions are really between what we know and what we aspire for. The contradictions are the gaps we see in our knowledge to reconcile the two.

I agree.

If you are less presumptious that your knowledge has made the dichotomies mute and accept there is so much that is still beyond your grasp. They you will still retain your innocence in proportion to your ignorance.

I completely agree.

Spirituality is only relevant to an individual if there is a another place where he would rather be than the one he is presently in. It is a transcendental escape from the physical and material world to a state of being where these contradictions collapse.

I believe a spirit is substantial, meaning it is delineated by that which it is not. As long as there is spirituality, there will be that which is not spiritual; there will be contradiction.

If Jesus was only a little more articulate and coherent, he would not have left his followers in a state of limbo or forced a suspension of reason. But you have the luxury of time, he was running on a tighter schedule.

I believe the suspension of reason was his intent.

Explore your possibilities. Utopia should always be a little beyond a man's reach, or what is a heaven for.

I love that. I see a lot of wisdom in that statement.

Quantum Theory has opened our understanding that what we see is not necessarily what things are. that all things exist in a state of possibility until observed. In short our consciousness shapes our reality. You are not without resources. Shape your own reality.

I believe our unconsciousness does too.

You must mean our subconscious. mind. Only the brain dead are forced to shape their reality in a state of unconsciousness.
JLWilliams
Posts: 3
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3/22/2016 2:59:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/18/2016 8:10:26 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/18/2016 3:25:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In religion, we find, as in a dream, contradiction. The motifs in themselves defy logic. Consider the miraculous births of many mythologies, theanthropism found in ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greek mythologies, as well as in Christianity; the concept of the resurrection, an ancient motif of the dying-and-rising god, is not particular to Christianity. An infertile or virgin woman giving birth to a child, a man who is both human and divine, and a dead god being brought back to life are all concepts that defy logic.

It is a belief in contradiction, a suspension of reason, that imbues religion with mystery and wonder; it removes it from the natural every-day world and places it behind a veil. Without a belief in contradiction, faith is lost, life becomes very predictable and mundane, mystery is dead. As a child, not understanding the mechanics of the virgin birth, the Incarnation, or the resurrection of Christ imbued me with a mysterious experience I can only describe as spiritual. Once I reached the age of reason and started to doubt these contradictions, all sense of spirituality was lost.

I cannot return to innocence and revive those dead relics of the Christian faith. Once reason has vanquished faith, new contradictions, things that escape the scrutiny of science must be born. Religions come and religions go; old religions seed new ones. Faith and reason are entangled in a deadly but eternal dance. As long as contradiction remains, wonder and mystery will continue to evoke the heart of the believer.

It is said science explains how the universe is made. But religion explains why the universe is made. science offers a materialistic, deterministic view of the world, religion looks for a more purposeful view of the world. So the contradictions are really between what we know and what we aspire for. The contradictions are the gaps we see in our knowledge to reconcile the two.

If you are less presumptious that your knowledge has made the dichotomies mute and accept there is so much that is still beyond your grasp. They you will still retain your innocence in proportion to your ignorance.

Spirituality is only relevant to an individual if there is a another place where he would rather be than the one he is presently in. It is a transcendental escape from the physical and material world to a state of being where these contradictions collapse.
If Jesus was only a little more articulate and coherent, he would not have left his followers in a state of limbo or forced a suspension of reason. But you have the luxury of time, he was running on a tighter schedule. Explore your possibilities. Utopia should always be a little beyond a man's reach, or what is a heaven for.


Quantum Theory has opened our understanding that what we see is not necessarily what things are. that all things exist in a state of possibility until observed. In short our consciousness shapes our reality. You are not without resources. Shape your own reality.

The concept of 'purpose' is a figment of our imagination. We can ascribe ourselves purpose, however existence has no practical goal. Attempting to justify the existence of God by saying that we have purpose is invalid. Your points are comprised of new-age rhetoric, and should not be taken seriously. It is incredibly vain to base lifestyle on accepting "mystery and wonder" over truth and evidence.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/22/2016 4:04:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/22/2016 2:59:55 PM, JLWilliams wrote:
At 3/18/2016 8:10:26 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/18/2016 3:25:39 PM, s-anthony wrote:
In religion, we find, as in a dream, contradiction. The motifs in themselves defy logic. Consider the miraculous births of many mythologies, theanthropism found in ancient Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greek mythologies, as well as in Christianity; the concept of the resurrection, an ancient motif of the dying-and-rising god, is not particular to Christianity. An infertile or virgin woman giving birth to a child, a man who is both human and divine, and a dead god being brought back to life are all concepts that defy logic.

It is a belief in contradiction, a suspension of reason, that imbues religion with mystery and wonder; it removes it from the natural every-day world and places it behind a veil. Without a belief in contradiction, faith is lost, life becomes very predictable and mundane, mystery is dead. As a child, not understanding the mechanics of the virgin birth, the Incarnation, or the resurrection of Christ imbued me with a mysterious experience I can only describe as spiritual. Once I reached the age of reason and started to doubt these contradictions, all sense of spirituality was lost.

I cannot return to innocence and revive those dead relics of the Christian faith. Once reason has vanquished faith, new contradictions, things that escape the scrutiny of science must be born. Religions come and religions go; old religions seed new ones. Faith and reason are entangled in a deadly but eternal dance. As long as contradiction remains, wonder and mystery will continue to evoke the heart of the believer.

It is said science explains how the universe is made. But religion explains why the universe is made. science offers a materialistic, deterministic view of the world, religion looks for a more purposeful view of the world. So the contradictions are really between what we know and what we aspire for. The contradictions are the gaps we see in our knowledge to reconcile the two.

If you are less presumptious that your knowledge has made the dichotomies mute and accept there is so much that is still beyond your grasp. They you will still retain your innocence in proportion to your ignorance.

Spirituality is only relevant to an individual if there is a another place where he would rather be than the one he is presently in. It is a transcendental escape from the physical and material world to a state of being where these contradictions collapse.
If Jesus was only a little more articulate and coherent, he would not have left his followers in a state of limbo or forced a suspension of reason. But you have the luxury of time, he was running on a tighter schedule. Explore your possibilities. Utopia should always be a little beyond a man's reach, or what is a heaven for.


Quantum Theory has opened our understanding that what we see is not necessarily what things are. that all things exist in a state of possibility until observed. In short our consciousness shapes our reality. You are not without resources. Shape your own reality.

The concept of 'purpose' is a figment of our imagination. We can ascribe ourselves purpose, however existence has no practical goal. Attempting to justify the existence of God by saying that we have purpose is invalid. Your points are comprised of new-age rhetoric, and should not be taken seriously. It is incredibly vain to base lifestyle on accepting "mystery and wonder" over truth and evidence.
So why are scientists still exploring the mysteries of the world when life has no purpose? We eat, poo, reproduce, grow old and die. Why save lives when they are being replaced? Why build better systems which serves no practical goal, we are all going to die sometime or other? Why aspire for greater things when our existence is predetermined by materialistic determination or natural laws?
Because there is something beyond the obvious. We all intuitively know there is more to life than mere existence. That life has meaning and purpose is less of a contradiction. It is the product of rational conclusion.