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God willfully made childbirth painful

Jovian
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3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.
JLWilliams
Posts: 3
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3/22/2016 2:54:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

In 1 Timothy 3, line 8, it begins:
start quote
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

end quote

The Bible says that the woman must suffer because the Bible is sexist, illogical and contradictory. Even through a metaphorical, fuzzy lens, God is directly saying that women should not be allowed to teach or hold any position of authority. There is no truth to be found in this book.
bulproof
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3/22/2016 3:04:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
And when he did the woman he was imposing this sentence on had no knowledge of child birth.
What a f*ckin' stupid god.
How does a serpent perambulate?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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3/22/2016 3:16:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/22/2016 2:54:20 PM, JLWilliams wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? O latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

In 1 Timothy 3, line 8, it begins:
start quote
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Interesting that you are quoting this one. This is a verse which pretty much no Christian at all is following. Show this to any Christian and they will either be like "What? Does such a verse exist?" or come up with some bad excuse about how you have to read it in a historical perspective because of "outdated views on apparel".

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

end quote

The Bible says that the woman must suffer because the Bible is sexist, illogical and contradictory. Even through a metaphorical, fuzzy lens, God is directly saying that women should not be allowed to teach or hold any position of authority. There is no truth to be found in this book.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/22/2016 4:32:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/22/2016 3:16:34 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/22/2016 2:54:20 PM, JLWilliams wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? O latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

In 1 Timothy 3, line 8, it begins:
start quote
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Interesting that you are quoting this one. This is a verse which pretty much no Christian at all is following. Show this to any Christian and they will either be like "What? Does such a verse exist?" or come up with some bad excuse about how you have to read it in a historical perspective because of "outdated views on apparel".

IKR

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

end quote

The Bible says that the woman must suffer because the Bible is sexist, illogical and contradictory. Even through a metaphorical, fuzzy lens, God is directly saying that women should not be allowed to teach or hold any position of authority. There is no truth to be found in this book.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

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Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

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Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/22/2016 9:15:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

It shows that the Christian god is an irrational, cruel and sexist mythical creature created by bronze age humans.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/22/2016 11:08:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

From the title of this topic you fail to understand what Jehovah is actually saying there.

Yes, he did make that so, just as he made Adam and Eve start to die from the moment Adam sinned. In fact it is simply and inescapably a part of that.

What that means is that Jehovah wasn't adding that to what he had been forced to do by Adam's unfaithfulness, but was warning Even that the increased pain of childbirth, and the increased longing for her husband was an inevitable part of what she and Adam had brought on humanity.


What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

But he did make everything in the man's biology more severe.

We die because of what Adam did, as did Adam.

We grow sick because of what Adam did.

We are morally and psychologically more weak because of what Adam did.

Consider this.

When Jehovah needed to create a special, Adam-like body for his son to use to become incarnate and carry out his mission on the earth, did he simply create a new human from scratch.

No, he used a woman's body to do so, and had to make sure that she was untouched by any man. He did not need to alter her body, just prevent any man from affecting the conception of the foetus.

Similar I suppose to the way Jehovah originally created Eve from a rib, or more like either one cell, or maybe a few cells, from a rib of Adam.

I wonder what your take on that is?

Is man the source of our inherited sin passed down from Adam rather than woman?Obviously I do not know, but I often wonder about that, just as I continually meditate on so many aspects of scriptural teachings.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 12:52:31 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal. : :

God didn't need to have his people formed in a womb. Adam and Eve weren't formed in a womb.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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3/23/2016 4:53:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

It's more interesting to me that this results in men going after girls... they deserve their pain. They can walk out and get laid at anytime they really want... i will take one or two kids and pain for that power ;-)
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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3/23/2016 7:25:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/22/2016 11:08:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What that means is that Jehovah wasn't adding that to what he had been forced to do by Adam's unfaithfulness, but was warning Even that the increased pain of childbirth, and the increased longing for her husband was an inevitable part of what she and Adam had brought on humanity.

What a fuc*ing load of crap.
The bible of the insane.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
desmac
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3/23/2016 7:30:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

Not just painful. Until modern scientific medicine all too often lethal.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/23/2016 7:32:50 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/22/2016 9:15:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

It shows that the Christian god is an irrational, cruel and sexist mythical creature created by bronze age humans.

Chloe, I agree 100%, except that I think your last word should be men.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/23/2016 8:16:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 7:32:50 AM, desmac wrote:
At 3/22/2016 9:15:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

It shows that the Christian god is an irrational, cruel and sexist mythical creature created by bronze age humans.

Chloe, I agree 100%, except that I think your last word should be men.

Yes true it should be.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,273
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3/28/2016 11:06:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something?

Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe?

He did, he gave us women.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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3/28/2016 11:42:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

Or it is because of evolution :)
Meh!
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/28/2016 11:58:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

The man received a punishment in the story. Eve's was worse because Adam trusted her and she caused him to sin.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2016 9:01:09 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 11:58:30 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

The man received a punishment in the story. Eve's was worse because Adam trusted her and she caused him to sin.

No-one caused Adam to sin. He could easily have refused the fruit, but it was his decision to side with his wife rather than with God.

The punishment for both of them was to lose the protection that would have given them eternal life. That brought all the other things with it, and also passed on to future generations the flaws which brought sin and death with them, as Paul explains.

Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

Hence sin is effectively inherited from Adam, and only Christ's sacrifice can and will, in due time, remove it from all who accept the offer.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2016 9:01:51 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 11:42:14 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

Or it is because of evolution :)

How can a fairy story like evolution cause anything?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/29/2016 11:49:07 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 9:01:09 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/28/2016 11:58:30 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/21/2016 10:29:44 PM, Jovian wrote:
Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

What's your take on this? Why should every woman since Adam and Eve be punished for how Eve made Adam do something? Why didn't God make anything in the man's biology more severe? The latter one would be more logical since you put almost all blame on the criminal and not the inspiration to that criminal.

The man received a punishment in the story. Eve's was worse because Adam trusted her and she caused him to sin.

No-one caused Adam to sin. He could easily have refused the fruit, but it was his decision to side with his wife rather than with God.

The punishment for both of them was to lose the protection that would have given them eternal life. That brought all the other things with it, and also passed on to future generations the flaws which brought sin and death with them, as Paul explains.

Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

Hence sin is effectively inherited from Adam, and only Christ's sacrifice can and will, in due time, remove it from all who accept the offer.

It is inherited through him, but she did cause him to sin. This doesn't take blame from him. Probably even more condemnation upon him for having known that she pertook first and had time to ponder.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/29/2016 11:49:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6)

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2016 12:34:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 11:49:29 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6)

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes but the poit is that Whilst Eve was decieved and became a snner that way, Adam did so wilfully, despite knowing better.

Therefore the blame lies with Adam.

There is also the other aspect. Headship.

Adam was created first and was tasked with teaching Eve. A job he did not carry out effectively. Hence he is guilty from that aspect also.

Plus don't forget the Biblical Headship principle, clearly repeated at 1 Cornithians 11:3.

The Man (Adam) is the head of the woman (Eve) in the same way that God is the head of Christ. Jehovah taught his son well, and his son performed his tasks well, and n fact still does.

Adam did not teach Eve well, nor did he turn to Jehovah for help in sorting the issue out. Had he done so Satan would have been defeated there and then, and this system would not have been the mess it almost immediately became, and remains.

Sorry, but the responsibility, from a human standpoint is, and remains Adam's, that is why scripture consistently blames Adam for the introduction of sin and death into mankind, not Eve.

Jehovah does not hold mistakes against us. If we are deceived he will correct us and, as long as we accept that correction, will forgive and forget.

Adam did not correct Eve, nor did he accept Jehovah's correction when he had the opportunity. Instead he blamed Jehovah, just as so many do today.
brontoraptor
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3/29/2016 12:47:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 12:34:35 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2016 11:49:29 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6)

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes but the poit is that Whilst Eve was decieved and became a snner that way, Adam did so wilfully, despite knowing better.

Therefore the blame lies with Adam.

There is also the other aspect. Headship.

Adam was created first and was tasked with teaching Eve. A job he did not carry out effectively. Hence he is guilty from that aspect also.

Plus don't forget the Biblical Headship principle, clearly repeated at 1 Cornithians 11:3.

The Man (Adam) is the head of the woman (Eve) in the same way that God is the head of Christ. Jehovah taught his son well, and his son performed his tasks well, and n fact still does.

Adam did not teach Eve well, nor did he turn to Jehovah for help in sorting the issue out. Had he done so Satan would have been defeated there and then, and this system would not have been the mess it almost immediately became, and remains.

Sorry, but the responsibility, from a human standpoint is, and remains Adam's, that is why scripture consistently blames Adam for the introduction of sin and death into mankind, not Eve.

Jehovah does not hold mistakes against us. If we are deceived he will correct us and, as long as we accept that correction, will forgive and forget.

Adam did not correct Eve, nor did he accept Jehovah's correction when he had the opportunity. Instead he blamed Jehovah, just as so many do today.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying she did pertake first and did give to him, hence she receive the childbirth pangs punishment.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
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3/29/2016 5:49:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 12:47:59 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/29/2016 12:34:35 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2016 11:49:29 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6)

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Yes but the poit is that Whilst Eve was decieved and became a snner that way, Adam did so wilfully, despite knowing better.

Therefore the blame lies with Adam.

There is also the other aspect. Headship.

Adam was created first and was tasked with teaching Eve. A job he did not carry out effectively. Hence he is guilty from that aspect also.

Plus don't forget the Biblical Headship principle, clearly repeated at 1 Cornithians 11:3.

The Man (Adam) is the head of the woman (Eve) in the same way that God is the head of Christ. Jehovah taught his son well, and his son performed his tasks well, and n fact still does.

Adam did not teach Eve well, nor did he turn to Jehovah for help in sorting the issue out. Had he done so Satan would have been defeated there and then, and this system would not have been the mess it almost immediately became, and remains.

Sorry, but the responsibility, from a human standpoint is, and remains Adam's, that is why scripture consistently blames Adam for the introduction of sin and death into mankind, not Eve.

Jehovah does not hold mistakes against us. If we are deceived he will correct us and, as long as we accept that correction, will forgive and forget.

Adam did not correct Eve, nor did he accept Jehovah's correction when he had the opportunity. Instead he blamed Jehovah, just as so many do today.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying she did pertake first and did give to him, hence she receive the childbirth pangs punishment.

That much is true, but in the end is not really relevant.

Had Adam done his job in the first place she may have been able to resist.

Even if she had not, had he then done his job under those circumstances and turned to Jehovah for help Jehovah would have been able to sort it out, Satan would have been defeated, and with Eve, or even a replacement, things could have gone on as they should.

Therefore it is Adam's error which has brought this rotten system on us. That is all that really matters.
bulproof
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3/29/2016 5:51:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Do you fuckheads realise that none of that crap happened?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin