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Islam & Mormonism - Pt 1

the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/14/2010 1:09:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Someone once said,- "When it comes to Gospel Truths there is nothing new under the sun but heresy and deception."
There was never a more true statement said – especially when discussing faith movements like Mormonism and Islam.
Because of an overwhelming push for people today to focus on "similarities between faiths" rather than obvious and blatant differences, it can be tedious to discern "truth from error" when comparing Islam and Mormonism to Biblical Christianity.
Most people are so fearful of offending or be convicted of a hate crime, that they simply smile and say things like, "We all worship the same God, right?"

Well, according to the Bible, we really don't.
Where heresy is the only new game since Jesus and his twelve laid out the principles of the Good News, the similarities found in the heretical faiths can be astonishing.

1.
Islam was founded by the man Muhammad around 500AD while Mormonism was founded by the man Joseph Smith in 1830.
2.
Both Mormonism and Islam use terminology that sound and seem Christian, but when defined and broken down prove to be quite different – even contrary - to Gospel truth.
Since almost all of the terms used in Islam and many in Mormonism originate from the Bible, under-standing the differences between them be different – especially when the role of Muslim and Mormon apologists is to make them SEEM the same.
3.
Islam which in reality means submission to an assortment of laws and rules and cultural demands – same as Mormonism, for to be either Muslim or Mormon, acceptance and submission to the ways established by their founders are mandatory.
4.
Muslim scholars agree that Islam is an all encompassing system; it is sociopolitical, socioreligious, socioeconomic, socioeducational, legislative, judiciary, and even militaristic in its influence. With the exception of a military force, Mormonism is no different. And though somewhat invisible today, Mormonism, at its roots, was, and continues to be, extremely militaristic.
Continuing with this "all-encompassing theme, Islamic scholar Soloman writes:
"Freedom of choice does not exist in Islam; neither is religion a private or personal matter. All decisions have already been made by Allah or his prophet Muhammad, so Muslims have no choice but to follow these divine regulations. Whoever strays has indeed strayed in error."
Similarly, in Mormonism, "all decisions have been made by God through His LDS prophets and the "brethren," so faithful LDS really have no option but to tow the line – to conform – or be cast out.
This is so true that LDS leaders like
have actually said:
"When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done."
Here Soloman describes the founder of Islam:
"Muhammad himself claimed authority from the top to bottom in the budding Islamic entity, including a prophetic office, being a supreme legislator, a judge, commander in chief of the armies, and head of the Muslim community.
He established a state, sent armies, conquered his enemies and collected taxes."
5.
Islam is founded primarily on two books of writings. The first book is the Qur'an, which Muslims believe to be "the most correct book on the face of the earth."
The second set of writings is known as the Sunnah, which is an Arabic word that means, "to form, shape, mold, set a path," and points to the actual life, revelations, and the teachings of Muhammad as a man.
Mormonism is primarily founded on four books of scripture, with two - the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants - more emphasized than the others.
Latter-day Saints believe the Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth and their Doctrine and Covenants, which is used to "form, shape, mold and set a path for the Church," literally points to the actual life, revelations, and the teachings of Joseph Smith as a man.
6.
Islam claims that the Qur'an, to be the final revelation of Allah to mankind through his prophet Muhammad.
Mormonism claims the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the Gospel and though they do not call it the final revelation of God to mankind, no other LDS prophet has produced anything like it, so it may as well be.
What the LDS call Modern Revelation from a living prophet is almost a non-event as very very few things have been added to what their founder, Joseph Smith, originally said.
7.
The Qur'an and Sunnah was given to Muhammad piecemeal over a period of many years – and by direct "revelation."
The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants were given to Joseph Smith piecemeal over a period of many years, and by, (ahem) "direct revelation."
8.
Latter-day Saints believe that the original source for the Book of Mormon to be from "golden plates," which were taken to heaven once the book was done.
Muslims believe that the original version of the Qur'an has been preserved on what they call "the eternal tablet," which was brought down into this atmospheric realm temporarily to inspire Muhammad's mind.
9.
The Angel Gabriel inspired Muhammad to write what he wrote and assisted him in the process.
The angel Moroni told Joseph to write the Book of Mormon and assisted him in the process.
10.
Unlike the Bible, the Qur'an has no historical evidences or documents that can support its historical authenticity or literary reliability.
So too, the Book of Mormon, though full of fantastic material claims, has not one provable material support to authenticate its historical authenticity or literary reliability.

Now, we should also KNOW THE ENEMY! - WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT "FALSE TEACHERS":

1. They are a part of God's Plan, by the permissive will of God, 2 Pet 2:2, Jude ver 3 & 4, 1 Jn 4:1-6, 2 Pet 2:12, Prov 16:4.

2. Their purpose is to cause the true children of God to stand up for the truth. 1 Cor 11:19, Jude ver 3 & 4.

3. In an Old Testament example, God says He did not send them, but they ran, and He did not speak to them, but they prophesied. They dream dreams and prophecy lies. They steal their messages from each other. Woe to them. Jeremiah chap 23, especially verses 1, 16 & 17, 21, 25, and 30.

4. The tools of their trade are counterfeit, and look like the real thing to the observer who does not know God's Word:

a. Counterfeit ministers, 2 Cor 11:13-15.

b. A counterfeit gospel, 2 Cor 11:3 & 4.

c. Counterfeit doctrines, 2 Tim 4:1-4.

d. A counterfeit spirituality, Gal 3:1-5.

e. A counterfeit righteousness, Matt 23:13-36.

f. A counterfeit communion table, 1 Cor 10:16-21.

g. Counterfeit power, 2 Thess 2:8-10.

h. A counterfeit god, 2 Thess 2:3 & 4.

5. Their characteristics:

a. They put up a phony pleasing front, Matt 7:15 & Rom 16:18.

b. They are excellent speakers, using great and persuasive, but tricky words, 2 Pet 2:3, 13 & 14, and 18, and Jude ver 16.

c. They use philosophy, enticing words and tradition to steal rewards from God's children, Col 2:4-23.

d. They appeal to human pride, 2 Cor 10:12.

e. They often promote legalism, or stepping out of bounds and teaching what Christians can and cannot do, and what pleases God when God's Word does not teach such things, 1 Tim 1:4-7.

f. They court God's true people, striving to obtain their confidence, Gal 4:17 & 18, 2 Tim 3:5-7, Jude ver 16.

g. They speak evil of God's chain of authority, Jude ver 8, and 2 Pet 2:10-12.

h. They are covetous, wanting things that are not theirs, 2 Pet 2:3.

6. Our protection from false teachers is to constantly stay in fellowship in accordance with 1 John 1:9 and to know what the Bible teaches on the subject in question, Col 2:9-14, Phil 1:9-11, Eph 6:10-18, 2 Pet 3:17 & 18, and Psa 138:2.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/14/2010 1:13:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/14/2010 1:09:04 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Someone once said,- "When it comes to Gospel Truths there is nothing new under the sun but heresy and deception."
There was never a more true statement said – especially when discussing faith movements like Mormonism and Islam.
Because of an overwhelming push for people today to focus on "similarities between faiths" rather than obvious and blatant differences, it can be tedious to discern "truth from error" when comparing Islam and Mormonism to Biblical Christianity.
Most people are so fearful of offending or be convicted of a hate crime, that they simply smile and say things like, "We all worship the same God, right?"

Well, according to the Bible, we really don't.
Where heresy is the only new game since Jesus and his twelve laid out the principles of the Good News, the similarities found in the heretical faiths can be astonishing.

1.
Islam was founded by the man Muhammad around 500AD while Mormonism was founded by the man Joseph Smith in 1830.
2.
Both Mormonism and Islam use terminology that sound and seem Christian, but when defined and broken down prove to be quite different – even contrary - to Gospel truth.
Since almost all of the terms used in Islam and many in Mormonism originate from the Bible, under-standing the differences between them be different – especially when the role of Muslim and Mormon apologists is to make them SEEM the same.
3.
Islam which in reality means submission to an assortment of laws and rules and cultural demands – same as Mormonism, for to be either Muslim or Mormon, acceptance and submission to the ways established by their founders are mandatory.
4.
Muslim scholars agree that Islam is an all encompassing system; it is sociopolitical, socioreligious, socioeconomic, socioeducational, legislative, judiciary, and even militaristic in its influence. With the exception of a military force, Mormonism is no different. And though somewhat invisible today, Mormonism, at its roots, was, and continues to be, extremely militaristic.
Continuing with this "all-encompassing theme, Islamic scholar Soloman writes:
"Freedom of choice does not exist in Islam; neither is religion a private or personal matter. All decisions have already been made by Allah or his prophet Muhammad, so Muslims have no choice but to follow these divine regulations. Whoever strays has indeed strayed in error."
Similarly, in Mormonism, "all decisions have been made by God through His LDS prophets and the "brethren," so faithful LDS really have no option but to tow the line – to conform – or be cast out.
This is so true that LDS leaders like
have actually said:
"When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done."
Here Soloman describes the founder of Islam:
"Muhammad himself claimed authority from the top to bottom in the budding Islamic entity, including a prophetic office, being a supreme legislator, a judge, commander in chief of the armies, and head of the Muslim community.
He established a state, sent armies, conquered his enemies and collected taxes."
5.
Islam is founded primarily on two books of writings. The first book is the Qur'an, which Muslims believe to be "the most correct book on the face of the earth."
The second set of writings is known as the Sunnah, which is an Arabic word that means, "to form, shape, mold, set a path," and points to the actual life, revelations, and the teachings of Muhammad as a man.
Mormonism is primarily founded on four books of scripture, with two - the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants - more emphasized than the others.
Latter-day Saints believe the Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth and their Doctrine and Covenants, which is used to "form, shape, mold and set a path for the Church," literally points to the actual life, revelations, and the teachings of Joseph Smith as a man.
6.
Islam claims that the Qur'an, to be the final revelation of Allah to mankind through his prophet Muhammad.
Mormonism claims the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the Gospel and though they do not call it the final revelation of God to mankind, no other LDS prophet has produced anything like it, so it may as well be.
What the LDS call Modern Revelation from a living prophet is almost a non-event as very very few things have been added to what their founder, Joseph Smith, originally said.
7.
The Qur'an and Sunnah was given to Muhammad piecemeal over a period of many years – and by direct "revelation."
The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants were given to Joseph Smith piecemeal over a period of many years, and by, (ahem) "direct revelation."
8.
Latter-day Saints believe that the original source for the Book of Mormon to be from "golden plates," which were taken to heaven once the book was done.
Muslims believe that the original version of the Qur'an has been preserved on what they call "the eternal tablet," which was brought down into this atmospheric realm temporarily to inspire Muhammad's mind.
9.
The Angel Gabriel inspired Muhammad to write what he wrote and assisted him in the process.
The angel Moroni told Joseph to write the Book of Mormon and assisted him in the process.
10.
Unlike the Bible, the Qur'an has no historical evidences or documents that can support its historical authenticity or literary reliability.
So too, the Book of Mormon, though full of fantastic material claims, has not one provable material support to authenticate its historical authenticity or literary reliability.

Now, we should also KNOW THE ENEMY! - WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT "FALSE TEACHERS":

1. They are a part of God's Plan, by the permissive will of God, 2 Pet 2:2, Jude ver 3 & 4, 1 Jn 4:1-6, 2 Pet 2:12, Prov 16:4.

2. Their purpose is to cause the true children of God to stand up for the truth. 1 Cor 11:19, Jude ver 3 & 4.

3. In an Old Testament example, God says He did not send them, but they ran, and He did not speak to them, but they prophesied. They dream dreams and prophecy lies. They steal their messages from each other. Woe to them. Jeremiah chap 23, especially verses 1, 16 & 17, 21, 25, and 30.

4. The tools of their trade are counterfeit, and look like the real thing to the observer who does not know God's Word:

a. Counterfeit ministers, 2 Cor 11:13-15.

b. A counterfeit gospel, 2 Cor 11:3 & 4.

c. Counterfeit doctrines, 2 Tim 4:1-4.

d. A counterfeit spirituality, Gal 3:1-5.

e. A counterfeit righteousness, Matt 23:13-36.

f. A counterfeit communion table, 1 Cor 10:16-21.

g. Counterfeit power, 2 Thess 2:8-10.

h. A counterfeit god, 2 Thess 2:3 & 4.

5. Their characteristics:

a. They put up a phony pleasing front, Matt 7:15 & Rom 16:18.

b. They are excellent speakers, using great and persuasive, but tricky words, 2 Pet 2:3, 13 & 14, and 18, and Jude ver 16.

c. They use philosophy, enticing words and tradition to steal rewards from God's children, Col 2:4-23.

d. They appeal to human pride, 2 Cor 10:12.

e. They often promote legalism, or stepping out of bounds and teaching what Christians can and cannot do, and what pleases God when God's Word does not teach such things, 1 Tim 1:4-7.

f. They court God's true people, striving to obtain their confidence, Gal 4:17 & 18, 2 Tim 3:5-7, Jude ver 16.

g. They speak evil of God's chain of authority, Jude ver 8, and 2 Pet 2:10-12.

h. They are covetous, wanting things that are not theirs, 2 Pet 2:3.

6. Our protection from false teachers is to constantly stay in fellowship in accordance with 1 John 1:9 and to know what the Bible teaches on the subject in question, Col 2:9-14, Phil 1:9-11, Eph 6:10-18, 2 Pet 3:17 & 18, and Psa 138:2.

This is the troll line.
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I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/14/2010 1:10:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/14/2010 12:33:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
Perhaps you can use these arguments in a formal debate?

I would much prefer you to answer my question on "Jesus' divinity" than pass your time on here, I've been very patient knowing you have taken on a rather heavy load, but when I see you posting on further matters it makes me wonder if my patience will last out
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/14/2010 1:16:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/14/2010 1:10:27 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/14/2010 12:33:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
Perhaps you can use these arguments in a formal debate?

I would much prefer you to answer my question on "Jesus' divinity" than pass your time on here, I've been very patient knowing you have taken on a rather heavy load, but when I see you posting on further matters it makes me wonder if my patience will last out
Maybe you should read the arguments I already presented? It is you, not I, who should be patient in this case. Read my arguments in my debate, thank you.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/14/2010 4:18:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I requested for you to provide in context an interpretation of "I AM" as given in "John 8:58", your debate and posts do not provide this, - it gives the impression your stuck for an alternative, which is fine, I have no problem with that. but just tell me so I'm not left waiting.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/14/2010 5:35:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Islam was founded by the man Muhammad around 500AD while Christianity was founded by the man Jesus Christ around 0AD.
2.
Both Christianity and Islam use terminology that sound and seem Jewish, but when defined and broken down prove to be quite different – even contrary - to Tanakh truth.
Since almost all of the terms used in Islam and many in Christianity originate from the Tanakh, under-standing the differences between them be different – especially when the role of Muslim and Christian apologists is to make them SEEM the same.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/14/2010 5:36:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
yall see? when it comes to scripture (Tanakh) truths there is nothing new under the sun but heresy and deception.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/15/2010 12:30:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/14/2010 4:18:07 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I requested for you to provide in context an interpretation of "I AM" as given in "John 8:58", your debate and posts do not provide this, - it gives the impression your stuck for an alternative, which is fine, I have no problem with that. but just tell me so I'm not left waiting.
Deceitful. I gave you an explanation and you know it very well.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/15/2010 2:36:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/15/2010 12:30:23 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/14/2010 4:18:07 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I requested for you to provide in context an interpretation of "I AM" as given in "John 8:58", your debate and posts do not provide this, - it gives the impression your stuck for an alternative, which is fine, I have no problem with that. but just tell me so I'm not left waiting.
Deceitful. I gave you an explanation and you know it very well.

Where ?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/15/2010 2:48:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/15/2010 2:36:46 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/15/2010 12:30:23 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/14/2010 4:18:07 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I requested for you to provide in context an interpretation of "I AM" as given in "John 8:58", your debate and posts do not provide this, - it gives the impression your stuck for an alternative, which is fine, I have no problem with that. but just tell me so I'm not left waiting.
Deceitful. I gave you an explanation and you know it very well.

Where ?
In the other thread. The fact that you deny evidence is not my problem.