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The God Who Wasn't Really There

dee-em
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3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:48:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above? : :

If you can define what a thought is, then you can understand that a thought has to come from something.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

Psalm 92
5: How great are thy works, O LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep!
6: The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this:

Psalm 94
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

Job 33
4: The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/23/2016 10:42:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:48:44 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above? : :

If you can define what a thought is, then you can understand that a thought has to come from something.

Thoughts come from brains. Brains are not immaterial. Next.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 10:46:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 10:42:00 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:48:44 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above? : :

If you can define what a thought is, then you can understand that a thought has to come from something.

Thoughts come from brains. Brains are not immaterial. Next. : :

Visible brains are nothing but thoughts that make a created man believe in. Brains are illusions that aren't real at all.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 10:48:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 10:42:50 PM, dee-em wrote:
Oh no. It's Brad again. : :

It's the Voice of God that Brad gets his thoughts from to write and speak.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/23/2016 10:49:35 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

God is not nothingness. He is God. "I am who I am". You cannot describe him in earthly terms, and attempting to do so results in strange conclusions, like this one.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/23/2016 10:59:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 10:46:54 PM, nonwo wrote:

Visible brains are nothing but thoughts that make a created man believe in. Brains are illusions that aren't real at all.

Get lost Brad or at least stop polluting my thread.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/23/2016 11:04:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 10:49:35 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

God is not nothingness. He is God. "I am who I am".

Rather circular and therefore meaningless don't you think? If God is not nothingness then he is made of something. But he can't be made of something because he is immaterial. Can you explain your way out of the conundrum?

You cannot describe him in earthly terms, and attempting to do so results in strange conclusions, like this one.

I'm not interested in how I can't describe him. I'm interested in how you can describe him. Describe him. The only conclusion I can reach is that he is literally nothing.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 11:09:27 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 10:59:50 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/23/2016 10:46:54 PM, nonwo wrote:

Visible brains are nothing but thoughts that make a created man believe in. Brains are illusions that aren't real at all.

Get lost Brad or at least stop polluting my thread. : :

Every thread I posted in was polluted with members who kept rejecting the Voice of God. They were off topic every single time but it was me who got banned instead of the members who went off topic. Hypocrites don't know they're hypocrites.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.
He sent Jesus so we could understand him
before we could philosophise about this stuff.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 11:30:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.
He sent Jesus so we could understand him
before we could philosophise about this stuff. : :

All religious antichrists guess at who God is or how we were created. Some of them actually believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior. LOL !!!!!!
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/23/2016 11:32:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?
Many do.

Some avoid it by focusing on the claims that seem more credible, and ignoring the less credible claims -- neither contesting it, nor acknowledging that it doesn't seem credible. They simply shrug, say it's beyond their pay-grade and make an appeal to authorities smarter and wiser than them. This Appeal to Authority is the intellectual equivalent of the Nuremberg Defense -- they believe simply because authorities have told them to. [http://rationalwiki.org...]

Some do what fiction-writers do, and 'hang a lampshade' on the most outrageous elements of their beliefs, treating each as a sublime feature rather than an intellectual problem. [http://tvtropes.org...] A defense mechanism called sublimation, it also links to conflicts associated with the desire to do anything considered bad or shameful. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

But some take these tall tales so seriously that they find it hard to do either, so they expunge it by vilifying atheists and other nonbelievers instead. For a modern person believing in ancient, ignorant mythologies as literal truths, some doubt is natural. But if believers project their own doubts onto atheists (or at times, secular thinkers such as scientists), then by insulting, marginalising and demeaning them, they can talk about their misgivings as belonging to someone else, treat such doubt as shameful and ignorant, and claim to have transcended doubt themselves. This is essentially scapegoating: any doubts are created by atheists and other secular thinkers, and not by the implausibility of the claims themselves.

Appeals to Authority, Sublimation and Scapegoating are all forms of rationalisation familiar to Psychology. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

None would be needed if the claims of religion were transparent, coherent, falsifiable, and well-evidenced, and if it were not considered immoral to challenge and contest them.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/23/2016 11:36:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.

Laws of physics cannot think.

He sent Jesus so we could understand him

An assertion.

before we could philosophise about this stuff.

Yes. :-)
dee-em
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3/23/2016 11:45:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:32:34 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?
Many do.

Some avoid it by focusing on the claims that seem more credible, and ignoring the less credible claims -- neither contesting it, nor acknowledging that it doesn't seem credible. They simply shrug, say it's beyond their pay-grade and make an appeal to authorities smarter and wiser than them. This Appeal to Authority is the intellectual equivalent of the Nuremberg Defense -- they believe simply because authorities have told them to. [http://rationalwiki.org...]

Some do what fiction-writers do, and 'hang a lampshade' on the most outrageous elements of their beliefs, treating each as a sublime feature rather than an intellectual problem. [http://tvtropes.org...] A defense mechanism called sublimation, it also links to conflicts associated with the desire to do anything considered bad or shameful. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

But some take these tall tales so seriously that they find it hard to do either, so they expunge it by vilifying atheists and other nonbelievers instead. For a modern person believing in ancient, ignorant mythologies as literal truths, some doubt is natural. But if believers project their own doubts onto atheists (or at times, secular thinkers such as scientists), then by insulting, marginalising and demeaning them, they can talk about their misgivings as belonging to someone else, treat such doubt as shameful and ignorant, and claim to have transcended doubt themselves. This is essentially scapegoating: any doubts are created by atheists and other secular thinkers, and not by the implausibility of the claims themselves.

Appeals to Authority, Sublimation and Scapegoating are all forms of rationalisation familiar to Psychology. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

None would be needed if the claims of religion were transparent, coherent, falsifiable, and well-evidenced, and if it were not considered immoral to challenge and contest them.

Well said. The reason why theists react with hostility to atheists particularly rings true.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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3/24/2016 1:17:44 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:30:54 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.
He sent Jesus so we could understand him
before we could philosophise about this stuff. : :

All religious antichrists guess at who God is or how we were created. Some of them actually believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior. LOL !!!!!!

Doesn't mean i am one, but if you are really scared don't vote for me for president.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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3/24/2016 1:21:31 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:36:47 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.

Laws of physics cannot think.

He sent Jesus so we could understand him

An assertion.

before we could philosophise about this stuff.

Yes. :-)

Says who?

And the assertion was build upon that.

People at that time would have had no chance at understanding his true "form" so he sent Jesus.

My belieif.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/24/2016 1:22:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 1:17:44 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:30:54 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.
He sent Jesus so we could understand him
before we could philosophise about this stuff. : :

All religious antichrists guess at who God is or how we were created. Some of them actually believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior. LOL !!!!!!

Doesn't mean i am one, but if you are really scared don't vote for me for president. : :

I don't vote for any inhabitants who believe they're standing on a real earth.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/24/2016 1:32:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing.

Because "immaterial" means "nothing"?

Yeah the epitome of rational thought you are.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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3/24/2016 1:56:14 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 1:22:57 AM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 1:17:44 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:30:54 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.
He sent Jesus so we could understand him
before we could philosophise about this stuff. : :

All religious antichrists guess at who God is or how we were created. Some of them actually believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior. LOL !!!!!!

Doesn't mean i am one, but if you are really scared don't vote for me for president. : :

I don't vote for any inhabitants who believe they're standing on a real earth.

I never said i thought i was standing on a real earth.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/24/2016 2:24:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 1:21:31 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:36:47 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:28:31 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

I believe he is more like a law of physics.

Laws of physics cannot think.

He sent Jesus so we could understand him

An assertion.

before we could philosophise about this stuff.

Yes. :-)

Says who?

Says who what?

And the assertion was build upon that.

Your unsubstantiated assertion about Jesus? Yes, that's why it is a problem.

People at that time would have had no chance at understanding his true "form" so he sent Jesus.

Your assertion about God having a "true form" which cannot be understood tells us nothing at all. How could you possibly know that it cannot be understood unless you know what that "true form" is?

My belieif.

Your unsubstantiated beliefs are irrelevant unfortunately.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/24/2016 2:44:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 1:32:57 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing.

Because "immaterial" means "nothing"?

Yeah the epitome of rational thought you are.

Enlighten us. What does immaterial mean if not "not material". Synonyms are intangible, incorporeal, not material, bodiless, unembodied, disembodied, impalpable, ethereal, unsubstantial, insubstantial, etc..

If you insist that God is made of something rather than nothing, then what is he made of? And don't give us words with no meaning like spirit which merely shunt the problem elsewhere into another unknown. That would be a game of pass the parcel. The floor is yours.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

No. It means He consists of an unknown variable from beyond our reality, just like a computer program is not made up of codes and loops simply because his video game's characters are. And...in reality nothing in our reality. Everything is subatomic. Everything is immaterial in our reality. Everything is quantum.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 2:44:42 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/24/2016 1:32:57 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing.

Because "immaterial" means "nothing"?

Yeah the epitome of rational thought you are.

Enlighten us. What does immaterial mean if not "not material". Synonyms are intangible, incorporeal, not material, bodiless, unembodied, disembodied, impalpable, ethereal, unsubstantial, insubstantial, etc..

If you insist that God is made of something rather than nothing, then what is he made of? And don't give us words with no meaning like spirit which merely shunt the problem elsewhere into another unknown. That would be a game of pass the parcel. The floor is yours.

No. The burden is yours not mine.

none of those synonyms is the word "nothing".
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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3/24/2016 3:04:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

No. It means He consists of an unknown variable from beyond our reality, just like a computer program is not made up of codes and loops simply because his video game's characters are.

Sorry, incoherent to me. Characters in a computer game require computer hardware. They are contingent.

And...in reality nothing in our reality. Everything is subatomic. Everything is immaterial in our reality. Everything is quantum.

So 'material' has no meaning? Lol.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/24/2016 3:04:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

We need no answer for the answer. We simply need to know someone from beyond our reality is the singularity, the first cause. This satisfies the paradoxes created by Atheism. To speculate what God is made of when He's from beyond our reality is futile.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/24/2016 3:07:22 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 3:04:08 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

No. It means He consists of an unknown variable from beyond our reality, just like a computer program is not made up of codes and loops simply because his video game's characters are.

Sorry, incoherent to me. Characters in a computer game require computer hardware. They are contingent.

And...in reality nothing in our reality. Everything is subatomic. Everything is immaterial in our reality. Everything is quantum.

So 'material' has no meaning? Lol.

The construct and laws that govern a video game are powerless and useless in defining the reality of the programmer is like or what the programmer is made of.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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3/24/2016 3:12:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/24/2016 2:44:42 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/24/2016 1:32:57 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing.

Because "immaterial" means "nothing"?

Yeah the epitome of rational thought you are.

Enlighten us. What does immaterial mean if not "not material". Synonyms are intangible, incorporeal, not material, bodiless, unembodied, disembodied, impalpable, ethereal, unsubstantial, insubstantial, etc..

If you insist that God is made of something rather than nothing, then what is he made of? And don't give us words with no meaning like spirit which merely shunt the problem elsewhere into another unknown. That would be a game of pass the parcel. The floor is yours.

No. The burden is yours not mine.

none of those synonyms is the word "nothing".
You obviously err in equating the words spirit and immaterial. The definitions do not resemble each other one iota.

root word of spirit has a tangible meaning Spirare: The words respiration and inspiration have the same Latin root, spirare, which means "to breathe." The word conspire has the same Latin etymological root. But what does conspiring have to do with breathing? The source of this term is notion that people who conspire are thinking in harmony, so close that they even breathe together. This is part of a complete episode.

http://www.waywordradio.org...

this word means lacking relevance
immaterial: adjective
1.
unimportant under the circumstances; irrelevant.
"so long as the band kept the beat, what they played was immaterial"
synonyms:irrelevant, unimportant, inconsequential, insignificant, of no matter/consequence, of little account, beside the point, neither here nor there
"the difference in our ages was immaterial" https://www.google.com...

breathing definitely has meaning and is tangible
dee-em
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3/24/2016 3:19:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 2:59:28 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/24/2016 2:44:42 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/24/2016 1:32:57 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing.

Because "immaterial" means "nothing"?

Yeah the epitome of rational thought you are.

Enlighten us. What does immaterial mean if not "not material". Synonyms are intangible, incorporeal, not material, bodiless, unembodied, disembodied, impalpable, ethereal, unsubstantial, insubstantial, etc..

If you insist that God is made of something rather than nothing, then what is he made of? And don't give us words with no meaning like spirit which merely shunt the problem elsewhere into another unknown. That would be a game of pass the parcel. The floor is yours.

No. The burden is yours not mine.

I have already made my case for why God has to be made of literally nothing. If you don't address it then you concede.

none of those synonyms is the word "nothing".

That's only because you guys invoke them to describe what has never been observed. Of course you (supernaturalists and theists from whom the definitions are sourced) are not going to equate them to nothing. I am going that extra (and logical) step because it is impossible for God to be made of something. You don't dispute this.
dee-em
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3/24/2016 3:24:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 3:04:38 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/23/2016 12:37:33 PM, dee-em wrote:
Theists tell us that the god they believe in is a spirit and immaterial. This literally means that he is made of nothing. He can't be made of anything because then he would be contingent on this god substance from which he was made and it would require an explanation. So god consists of nothingness.

This nothingness has magical properties though. (Yes, how can nothingness have attributes you may well ask. Let's just suspend our disbelief for a moment). One of those properties is that it can store information. Vast quantities of it. Think about that for a while. To store the history of humanity over the last 5,000 years requires enormous libraries of books or terabytes of computer storage. The internet is currently estimated to have 1.2 million terabytes of data stored in distributed data centres. God, being omniscient, has all that knowledge and much, much, much more. He has the entire history of the universe past, present and future. In fact to store all that information he would probably need something of the scope and complexity of the universe itself. Yet all of that almost unimaginable quantity of data, we are led to believe, is packed into ... nothing. Isn't that amazing?

But wait, it gets better. The nothingness has further properties. It is omnipresent for example. This means that the nothingness is spread through every corner of the universe, presumably uniformly. It is monitoring everything everywhere at all times. (When distributed like this, the nothingness has no problem with maintaining its integrity. Every portion can communicate with every other portion instantaneously. No general relativity for God or puny speed limitations such as the speed of light. That would introduce lag and cause God all kinds of problems with being contingent on time). So nothingness can stretch infinitely thin but be completely unaffected in any way. It's monitoring apparatus (also made of nothing!) magically extends itself as space expands. Isn't that a neat trick? All done with ... nothing.

Another interesting fact. The nothingness has no requirement for energy (because of the contingency problem again). It can monitor things, process information, have coherent thoughts and store data (in nothing!) but it never uses one iota of energy in doing so. They say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but God has a free lunch each and every day! Who would have thought that nothingness requires no energy to do work? It can even will a universe into existence and not only not use any energy, but it can create it. So something can come from ... nothing. This nothing is so full of surprises.

Theists sincerely believe in this god who isn't really there.
Why don't they suffer cognitive dissonance with the above?

We need no answer for the answer.

Yep, I know.

We simply need to know someone from beyond our reality is the singularity, the first cause. This satisfies the paradoxes created by Atheism. To speculate what God is made of when He's from beyond our reality is futile.

When you have no answers, you rationalise and convince yourself that you need no answers. That's one way of handling cognitive dissonance.