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freewill could be in error

DPMartin
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3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.

Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?

What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?

Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?
Fly
Posts: 2,044
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3/23/2016 5:14:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.

Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?

What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?

Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?

I agree, which is why I never get into free will arguments. The concept strikes me as pointless either way. As one sage joked, "We have no choice but to believe in free will." While some choose to dissect and argue over the wisdom or lack thereof of this quote, I interpret it as a cleverly ironic way to say that it is a pointless discussion altogether...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:21:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.

Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?

What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?

Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material? : :

The word of God is the voice of God which is similar to Apple's Siri, Microsoft's Cortana and IBM's Watson. However, it's impossible for us characters to see this technology. We can only experience what comes out of the voice of God.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/23/2016 5:22:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Sexist and irrational.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/23/2016 5:26:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:14:15 PM, Fly wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.

Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?

What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?

Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?

I agree, which is why I never get into free will arguments. The concept strikes me as pointless either way. As one sage joked, "We have no choice but to believe in free will." While some choose to dissect and argue over the wisdom or lack thereof of this quote, I interpret it as a cleverly ironic way to say that it is a pointless discussion altogether...

The idea turns up in theology simply because theology has embraced the idea of omniscient supervision -- so in that respect, free will is a philosophical problem theology has made for itself.

A parallel idea turns up in justice: the question of how much of the commitment to a deplorable act (e.g. killing someone) was caused by a reasonable response to extreme circumstance (e.g. self-defence) rather than prior motive and opportunity (e.g. the desire to harm.) But I don't think free will is necessary or helpful in this case.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:28:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude. : :

Thanks my friend. I don't think my guitar playing in those videos are very good because I'm playing much better these days. Maybe I'll make a few more videos of me playing the guitar in the future but only if I get some better equipment.

Do you play guitar?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:30:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:22:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Sexist and irrational. : :

A created man is both male and female.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/23/2016 5:31:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:28:26 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude. : :

Thanks my friend. I don't think my guitar playing in those videos are very good because I'm playing much better these days. Maybe I'll make a few more videos of me playing the guitar in the future but only if I get some better equipment.

Do you play guitar?

Actually, I do, in fact, I am currently in 2 semi-pro classic rock dance bands and working on a third project of creating a "Genesis/Peter Gabriel - Pink Floyd Tribute Band". The classic rock tunes are getting boring and I want to do something more challenging.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 5:41:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:31:20 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:28:26 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude. : :

Thanks my friend. I don't think my guitar playing in those videos are very good because I'm playing much better these days. Maybe I'll make a few more videos of me playing the guitar in the future but only if I get some better equipment.

Do you play guitar?

Actually, I do, in fact, I am currently in 2 semi-pro classic rock dance bands and working on a third project of creating a "Genesis/Peter Gabriel - Pink Floyd Tribute Band". The classic rock tunes are getting boring and I want to do something more challenging. : :

You must be very good if you're doing that kind of work. Pink Floyd did some awesome tunes. I played in a couple of bands when I was a lot younger. The first band I played bass guitar and the second band I played rhythm guitar. It wasn't until after my band days that I started developing the styles that I play today, which is very limited but enjoyable to me. If it wasn't enjoyable to me, I wouldn't be playing it. I've been working on finger picking and using a pick at the same time so I can get some pretty neat sounds that way.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/23/2016 5:55:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:41:15 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:31:20 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:28:26 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude. : :

Thanks my friend. I don't think my guitar playing in those videos are very good because I'm playing much better these days. Maybe I'll make a few more videos of me playing the guitar in the future but only if I get some better equipment.

Do you play guitar?

Actually, I do, in fact, I am currently in 2 semi-pro classic rock dance bands and working on a third project of creating a "Genesis/Peter Gabriel - Pink Floyd Tribute Band". The classic rock tunes are getting boring and I want to do something more challenging. : :

You must be very good if you're doing that kind of work. Pink Floyd did some awesome tunes. I played in a couple of bands when I was a lot younger. The first band I played bass guitar and the second band I played rhythm guitar. It wasn't until after my band days that I started developing the styles that I play today, which is very limited but enjoyable to me. If it wasn't enjoyable to me, I wouldn't be playing it. I've been working on finger picking and using a pick at the same time so I can get some pretty neat sounds that way.

Then, you are definitely one giant leap ahead of me, I never learned to finger pick. I even took a lesson for a guy to teach me how, but I just couldn't get the hang of it. I do a good slide guitar, though.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 6:13:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:55:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:41:15 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:31:20 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:28:26 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:20:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Hey Brad, how's it hangin? Was checking out some of your guitar videos. Neat stuff, dude. : :

Thanks my friend. I don't think my guitar playing in those videos are very good because I'm playing much better these days. Maybe I'll make a few more videos of me playing the guitar in the future but only if I get some better equipment.

Do you play guitar?

Actually, I do, in fact, I am currently in 2 semi-pro classic rock dance bands and working on a third project of creating a "Genesis/Peter Gabriel - Pink Floyd Tribute Band". The classic rock tunes are getting boring and I want to do something more challenging. : :

You must be very good if you're doing that kind of work. Pink Floyd did some awesome tunes. I played in a couple of bands when I was a lot younger. The first band I played bass guitar and the second band I played rhythm guitar. It wasn't until after my band days that I started developing the styles that I play today, which is very limited but enjoyable to me. If it wasn't enjoyable to me, I wouldn't be playing it. I've been working on finger picking and using a pick at the same time so I can get some pretty neat sounds that way.

Then, you are definitely one giant leap ahead of me, I never learned to finger pick. I even took a lesson for a guy to teach me how, but I just couldn't get the hang of it. I do a good slide guitar, though. : :

You're a giant leap ahead of me on slide guitar which is a very cool style. That's what is so cool about a guitar. There's so many ways to play it and once you get good at a particular style, it's so fun to play. I will keep playing until the day I die.
DPMartin
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3/23/2016 9:02:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.

Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?

What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?

Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?

It seems all you say here is inside the box. what you've said is standard for how long now? Since the Greek days? you can't use the same things to get different results. and anything in the OP isn't written in stone, other than thing in respect to Gods Word and Will.
DPMartin
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3/23/2016 9:03:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Nope
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 9:07:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:03:58 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Nope : :

You have no idea where your thoughts come from.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!
DPMartin
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3/23/2016 9:22:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:07:49 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:03:58 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Nope : :

You have no idea where your thoughts come from.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

what does that got to do with the subject at hand?

and what's difference between a week desire and a strong one? what strong one are not from God? and one should understand darkness may be a result of God's creating, but let there be light is from God, there is a difference. to say man's will is God's will is not scripturally sound because scripture says more than once that man's will is contrary to God's will and the Word of God is the expression of God's will therefore how do you get of God when it comes to man's will?

your quote looks to God's thoughts, how does that have any discerption to the subject of man's thoughts, and the OP for that matter?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/23/2016 9:33:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:02:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.
Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?
What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?
Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?
what you've said is standard for how long now?
What standard, DP? Established where and by whom?

I cannot help but feel that you're dismissing a point you didn't understand by claiming you'd seen it before and therefore... what? It's already resolved? If so, how?

you can't use the same things to get different results.
What same things? What different results? I don't follow this. It was as opaque as your last statement.

anything in the OP isn't written in stone
You didn't research it? You haven't tested it? What does this disclaimer actually mean?

other than thing in respect to Gods Word and Will.
You mean, the opinions of ancient and unauthenticated authors as to what that means? Those are valid and accurate?

How would you know if they weren't?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:22:46 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:07:49 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:03:58 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:18:45 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will. : :

When a man gets a strong desire to do something, it is a predetermined desire that's given to that person from the voice of God.

Nope : :

You have no idea where your thoughts come from.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

what does that got to do with the subject at hand?

and what's difference between a week desire and a strong one? what strong one are not from God? and one should understand darkness may be a result of God's creating, but let there be light is from God, there is a difference. to say man's will is God's will is not scripturally sound because scripture says more than once that man's will is contrary to God's will and the Word of God is the expression of God's will therefore how do you get of God when it comes to man's will?

your quote looks to God's thoughts, how does that have any discerption to the subject of man's thoughts, and the OP for that matter? : :

We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.
DPMartin
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3/23/2016 11:50:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:33:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:02:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as free will could be in error,

I'm not convinced that the question is even valid, DP.
Freedom from what? Recognised how? How would you falsify it?
What would you do differently if you had free will? If you didn't?
Absent some idea of an omniscient supervisor, capable of knowing everything to infinite precision, is the question even material?
what you've said is standard for how long now?
What standard, DP? Established where and by whom?

I cannot help but feel that you're dismissing a point you didn't understand by claiming you'd seen it before and therefore... what? It's already resolved? If so, how?

did I say it was resolved? why would you ask if I didn't? note the "could be" in the OP.

you can't use the same things to get different results.
What same things? What different results? I don't follow this. It was as opaque as your last statement.

you did express the issues already addressed in usual debates in the for and against freewill didn't you? Or didn't you know that you did?

anything in the OP isn't written in stone
You didn't research it? You haven't tested it? What does this disclaimer actually mean?

I'm sorry, are you paying for this, if you want to send me money maybe I will work on it.

other than thing in respect to Gods Word and Will.
You mean, the opinions of ancient and unauthenticated authors as to what that means? Those are valid and accurate?


How would you know if they weren't?

Must everything be explain to you?
according to the section of this site this is posted in, maybe you didn't know, is religion, so yes, religious text is a part of the conversation and the verification in religious conversations of whether something is already agreed to be true or not, or didn't you know that? Also I didn't know scripture had an expiration date. what, it can't be true because it's to old for you? If it wasn't in the religious context, this would be in the philosophy section of this site which it isn't, is it?
RuvDraba
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3/24/2016 12:11:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 11:50:38 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:33:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:02:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
you did express the issues already addressed in usual debates in the for and against freewill didn't you? Or didn't you know that you did?
I do not know what you are thinking or why unless you tell me what you're thinking and where you saw it.

anything in the OP isn't written in stone
You didn't research it? You haven't tested it? What does this disclaimer actually mean?
I'm sorry, are you paying for this
Of course. Anyone reading your post commits time, and anyone taking your comments seriously commits effort and respect. Either you respect the effort and sincerity of fellow members, or you don't.

other than thing in respect to Gods Word and Will.
You mean, the opinions of ancient and unauthenticated authors as to what that means? Those are valid and accurate?
How would you know if they weren't?
Must everything be explain to you?
Just the vague, opaque and unsupported, thank you.

religious text is a part of the conversation and the verification in religious conversations of whether something is already agreed to be true or not, or didn't you know that?
Not only do I not know that, DP, I do not agree with it. Verification is not a matter of adherent consensus -- it requires more than that.

I didn't know scripture had an expiration date.
Claims to understanding the culture and context of ancient authorship can. When you no longer live in the culture in which a document was written, and nobody can tell you with any authority how they know who wrote it, then your interpretations suffer problems of authentication and hence authority.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/24/2016 3:29:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 12:11:24 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 11:50:38 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:33:19 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:02:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 5:08:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
you did express the issues already addressed in usual debates in the for and against freewill didn't you? Or didn't you know that you did?
I do not know what you are thinking or why unless you tell me what you're thinking and where you saw it.

anything in the OP isn't written in stone
You didn't research it? You haven't tested it? What does this disclaimer actually mean?
I'm sorry, are you paying for this
Of course. Anyone reading your post commits time, and anyone taking your comments seriously commits effort and respect. Either you respect the effort and sincerity of fellow members, or you don't.

yea right, you got how many posts? And your going to talk to me like you just started here.

other than thing in respect to Gods Word and Will.
You mean, the opinions of ancient and unauthenticated authors as to what that means? Those are valid and accurate?
How would you know if they weren't?
Must everything be explain to you?
Just the vague, opaque and unsupported, thank you.

explain exactly what is vague, opaque and unsupported and show why.

religious text is a part of the conversation and the verification in religious conversations of whether something is already agreed to be true or not, or didn't you know that?
Not only do I not know that, DP, I do not agree with it. Verification is not a matter of adherent consensus -- it requires more than that.

why? what requirements?

I didn't know scripture had an expiration date.
Claims to understanding the culture and context of ancient authorship can. When you no longer live in the culture in which a document was written, and nobody can tell you with any authority how they know who wrote it, then your interpretations suffer problems of authentication and hence authority.

what does the culture have to do with statements that need no interpreter? and what exactly is stated in the OP the you disagree with and where is your proofs and reasons?

your position on the subject or the OP is irrelevant, hence this is not about you. if you've got reasons other than your position such as facts so one and so forth then go for it God bless. but if you want to rag on like some shrew that isn't getting what she wants the way she wants it, then I will move on with my life, leave you with your personal problems, Its a nice day out there.
DPMartin
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3/24/2016 3:33:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM, nonwo wrote:
We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.

Ok then, how is that so?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/24/2016 7:26:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 3:33:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM, nonwo wrote:
We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.


Ok then, how is that so? : :

The Voice of God works similar to IBM's Watson which is a program that can hear you ask it questions and will give you the answers to. However, the Voice of God is a program that is much more advanced than IBM's Watson. In fact, IBM's Watson came from the Voice of God.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/24/2016 7:38:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will.

The very fact that you were able to post that is evidence that free will exists.

The fact that we allow ourselves to be influenced by others does not alter the fact that it is our choice and our responsibility no matter who we have allowed ourselves to be influenced by.

However it remains true that there are only really two choices.

You re either influenced by Jehovah, or if you do not invite him to influence you he will not prevent Satan from doing so.

You see, out of respect for the free will he gave us, Jehovah allows us a choice.
Satan does not, he s only interested in your doing what he wants, which is anything but obey Jehovah, or live Jehovah's way.

Satan loves it most of all if he can plant an idea in your mind and then leave you to think it is your own idea. That way we do not realise he is influencing us ad therefore do not resist it.

He is after all the archetypal confidence trickster.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/24/2016 8:20:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 7:26:51 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 3:33:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM, nonwo wrote:
We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.


Ok then, how is that so? : :

The Voice of God works similar to IBM's Watson which is a program that can hear you ask it questions and will give you the answers to. However, the Voice of God is a program that is much more advanced than IBM's Watson. In fact, IBM's Watson came from the Voice of God.

I don"t know what god you are speaking of, but it sure doesn"t sound like the God of Israel. There is such a thing as lies, and the God of Israel isn"t a liar. And one can ask a liar a question and be lied to.
DPMartin
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3/24/2016 8:46:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 7:38:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2016 4:05:36 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The belief that there is such a thing as freewill could be in error, seeing one must be willing, and to be willing is already present, and if one perceives the opportunity according to what one is willing then the outcome is predetermined. And one is born into willingness for something, could be to cry out to be feed, therefore willing to be feed.
One doesn"t have the freedom to not be willing for something, even if it"s to survive, or not do something even if it means death. You are willing to continue to breath or not continue to breath, but you must be willing. So one must have will, and therefore one isn"t free to be without will. In a living thing, will must be present.
And without the will to do, one will not do, no matter the opportunity to do. It is the will that masters the doer. Even God has a will, and we know He will not defer from its fulfillment. All living things have a will, even if it"s the will to live, or be alive.
So it"s the will of man that predestinates man to his death because man is willing to do what will result in his own death. Which is to trust and or believe something other than the Word of God which is the revelation of the expressed will of God, and according to the Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Word of God made flesh, states that man lives by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And it is by the Word of God was all things made, therefore the way all living things have received life. Hence the source of life is the will of God expressed in His Word to His creation.

And since it"s the will of God to live and to give life, any other will would certainly be death. It seems that the will that has given life is freely received, but any other will would be death therefore how is that free? It could only be free from the life received. In the case of Adam and Eve their own will caused death for all that was to be born of the life they had. Seeing that they had the life you were to receive and lost it, and we received the life we have now.
But to be clear, the opportunity to choose doesn"t prove freewill, one can be denied opportunity therefore freewill in that sense isn"t intrinsic to the living. Except to believe and trust either self, or something else. And if there is freewill, there is where it would be. As in one"s own will or the will of another in place of one"s own will.

The very fact that you were able to post that is evidence that free will exists.

No it proves the opportunity to post here exists, one must be willing first.


The fact that we allow ourselves to be influenced by others does not alter the fact that it is our choice and our responsibility no matter who we have allowed ourselves to be influenced by.


Designating who is responsible for what is God"s job, some vessels are made to shame some are not:
Rom_9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

And there is also the hardening of pharaoh"s heart, of which pharaoh was willing to let his kingdom suffer great plagues to not kneel to Moses" God. A&E were willing to loss the life they had to be as gods knowing good and evil.

The will is the key to what a living thing will do given the opportunity. Doesn"t mean "freewill" in the context of free choices. What I"m saying here is what ever one is willing to do, one shall do when given the opportunity. If A&E were not willing to loss the life they had, things would be quite different for those who would have received the life they had and the serpent's influence you mentioned, wouldn't be influence at all.
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/24/2016 8:54:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 8:20:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/24/2016 7:26:51 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 3:33:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM, nonwo wrote:
We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.


Ok then, how is that so? : :

The Voice of God works similar to IBM's Watson which is a program that can hear you ask it questions and will give you the answers to. However, the Voice of God is a program that is much more advanced than IBM's Watson. In fact, IBM's Watson came from the Voice of God.

I don"t know what god you are speaking of, but it sure doesn"t sound like the God of Israel. There is such a thing as lies, and the God of Israel isn"t a liar. And one can ask a liar a question and be lied to. : :

The Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil came into being from the Voice of God.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/24/2016 9:25:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 8:54:23 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 8:20:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/24/2016 7:26:51 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 3:33:37 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/23/2016 9:37:46 PM, nonwo wrote:
We all get our thoughts from the Voice of God so everything is predetermined for us to experience. We are always riding the horse, not driving it.


Ok then, how is that so? : :

The Voice of God works similar to IBM's Watson which is a program that can hear you ask it questions and will give you the answers to. However, the Voice of God is a program that is much more advanced than IBM's Watson. In fact, IBM's Watson came from the Voice of God.

I don"t know what god you are speaking of, but it sure doesn"t sound like the God of Israel. There is such a thing as lies, and the God of Israel isn"t a liar. And one can ask a liar a question and be lied to. : :

The Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil came into being from the Voice of God.
And?