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Religious Ceremony

Mhykiel
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3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/24/2016 10:44:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?
That's an interesting topic, Mhykiel.

I realise you don't mean to debate whether spirit exists, and I don't mean to ask that here. What I'd like to know though is how you can tell whether an experience is spiritual, or simply psychological.

I think many people, including atheists, can have experiences that transform them psychologically and emotionally, and may change the paradigm under which they understand themselves, their lives and relationships. Some of those experiences may be ceremonial; some may not.

Is that what you mean by spiritual?
Deb-8-A-Bull
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3/24/2016 10:45:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Hi Mhykiel, hope you have a enjoyable Easter.
Can you clarify . Physical activities ,wich I understand , and difference. Spiritual difference. I'm sure I know what your asking. I think I'll answer.
As a Atheist I have not been to a church for over 25 years. For a God kind of thing . But when I attend a funeral, not so much a wedding. I feel something , that could be explained as a spiritual difference. I think I can better describe it as a comfort, I feel good in a bad situation that the deceased person is now in heaven. ( wow saying that makes me feel awkward. )
I don't ever take into consideration their religion. It's just kind of what I feel. It maybe just the fact that I don't go to a church for anything else.
I would never mention this to anyone.
Deb-8-A-Bull
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3/24/2016 10:55:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 10:44:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?
That's an interesting topic, Mhykiel.

I realise you don't mean to debate whether spirit exists, and I don't mean to ask that here. What I'd like to know though is how you can tell whether an experience is spiritual, or simply psychological.

I think many people, including atheists, can have experiences that transform them psychologically and emotionally, and may change the paradigm under which they understand themselves, their lives and relationships. Some of those experiences may be ceremonial; some may not.

Is that what you mean by spiritual?

Was a good topic and post hey Ruv. It messed with my head a little.
Let's pretend we did not answer the way we did.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/24/2016 10:58:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 10:44:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?
That's an interesting topic, Mhykiel.

I realise you don't mean to debate whether spirit exists, and I don't mean to ask that here. What I'd like to know though is how you can tell whether an experience is spiritual, or simply psychological.

I think many people, including atheists, can have experiences that transform them psychologically and emotionally, and may change the paradigm under which they understand themselves, their lives and relationships. Some of those experiences may be ceremonial; some may not.

Is that what you mean by spiritual?

I think the difference between 'spiritual' and psychology is an interesting question. And I don't know. If I had to articulate something I guess some psychological elements are habitual, which would be flesh in nature. I see the brain as the physical harddrive, physical processor for our spirits. So the distinction is probably a nuanced one.

Certainly some events are 'transformative' on a psychological level. And I think being transformative is a key part in a religous or spiritual ceremony.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/24/2016 11:05:56 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 10:45:43 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Hi Mhykiel, hope you have a enjoyable Easter.
Can you clarify . Physical activities ,wich I understand , and difference. Spiritual difference. I'm sure I know what your asking. I think I'll answer.
As a Atheist I have not been to a church for over 25 years. For a God kind of thing . But when I attend a funeral, not so much a wedding. I feel something , that could be explained as a spiritual difference. I think I can better describe it as a comfort, I feel good in a bad situation that the deceased person is now in heaven. ( wow saying that makes me feel awkward. )
I don't ever take into consideration their religion. It's just kind of what I feel. It maybe just the fact that I don't go to a church for anything else.
I would never mention this to anyone.

Thanks for sharing.

A funeral is certainly an interesting ceremony. In my family (irish) it is a celebration with music, jokes, beer, and dancing. But intermittent tears.

It brings into contrast the dichotomy of life and death. And with our empathy how can we not but think of our own mortality. And the person who has passed.

I like how you wish the best for them. I think it speaks highly of you.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/24/2016 11:25:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 10:58:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/24/2016 10:44:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?
That's an interesting topic, Mhykiel.

I realise you don't mean to debate whether spirit exists, and I don't mean to ask that here. What I'd like to know though is how you can tell whether an experience is spiritual, or simply psychological.

I think many people, including atheists, can have experiences that transform them psychologically and emotionally, and may change the paradigm under which they understand themselves, their lives and relationships. Some of those experiences may be ceremonial; some may not.

Is that what you mean by spiritual?

I think the difference between 'spiritual' and psychology is an interesting question. And I don't know. If I had to articulate something I guess some psychological elements are habitual, which would be flesh in nature. I see the brain as the physical harddrive, physical processor for our spirits. So the distinction is probably a nuanced one.

It sounds like you're looking for something inexplicably inspirational.

Under another hat, I'm involved in fiction writing and music creation, and many artists seek ideas so novel they look revolutionary, and so powerful they feel transformative. Such ideas when they come, seem to come mysteriously (or I'd say, our mind doesn't do a great job of remembering how it worked.) Consequently, a lot of artists talk about the spirituality of creation too.

I agree that ceremonies -- religious or otherwise -- can produce that sort of effect. If they were reliable though, I'm sure a lot of artists would make ceremony part of their process. :)

Beyond that, I can't contribute constructively so I'll shush. :) I've attended many different kinds of religious ceremonies, but have found no inspiration there (and in fairness, haven't really sought any.) I'm more likely to find inspiration in reflection, or in art itself.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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3/25/2016 1:01:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

ME: Self hypnosis: In most religious rites, one is told that they will feel spiritually different, and if they have got to a point of taking part in the "Spiritual rite" they are naturally taken up with the euphoria of the event.

The more fancy the event, with the wafting of incense, the ringing of high pitched bells (This is cunning as some people can not hear low pitched sounds and are not deaf) The presenter of the rite dressed in fine raiment and chanting in unintelligible mumbles, will create the effect of some form of "Spiritual experience", similar to speaking in tongues that no one knows is all about, but sounds exciting as you have been told that it is exciting, and "Spiritual" by the leader.

Witch Doctors have the ability to have their subjects to go into trances and become, or do something that they would never normally do, but this is not anything spiritual it is hypnotism based on years of indoctrination of the subjects.

For a person to feel the utmost spiritual experience it is usual that they should be calmed to an extend of almost trance like state, and then self hypnosis will take over and the person will be able to "Jump tall buildings in a single bound".

The aids to creating a spiritual experience are: Chanting in low monotonous tones. Lots of pomp and ceremony. A belief that what is about to happen, will happen. The convincing that you will be better than you were. One should not just jump into these rites, but should be led up to the "Proof" of the outcome by years of religious indoctrination and closer to the event a special teaching from the High Priest of the rite producers.

None of what I have said is contradicting the spiritual experience that is attained through a study and a knowledge of God's Holy Word in the Bible; however this experience is personal and not accompanied by pomp and ceremony.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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3/25/2016 2:29:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

Like you said above, baptism is a form of public or open display of ones proclamation to their beliefs but in a sense it's almost kind of like a beginner's first steps so I would say in this case it would be unlikely to cause a noticeable spiritual difference and of course I'm making the assumption that by "spiritual difference" you mean noticeable? Could you elaborate on that a little?
To me baptism symbolizes renewal and is a confession/statement of commitment, IMO all the good stuff is what follows when we press forward because as we abide in that through our lifestyle and choices we begin to harvest the fruit. One could get baptized tomorrow and then begin to slip away a week later only to have their seeds robbed from them and so no transformation/difference was accomplished.


I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Well it may come down to what you conclude is "physical" activities but one of the most effective course of actions for spiritual difference/change/growth is making Godly/righteous/spiritual intentional commitments "setting your affections on things above"
Colossians 3:2
Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

BUT.... then you must follow them and let the harvest spring forth. In the spirit it is a give and receive relation (Luke 6:38), your desires, dreams and needs both spiritual and physical are linked to the field and soil of your soul. When you set forth intention (good or bad) you are sowing a seed in that soil, and you of course are familiar with the parable of the sower in Matthew 13.

Here are things that I believe can cause a spiritual difference...

Abiding https://www.biblegateway.com...

Repentance/commitment
Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Note that repentance must be followed by change, this goes back to abiding.

Utilizing faith- Hebrews 11:6, Matthew 17:20
Faith of course...is not some phony suggestion of believing in some ideology with no evidence lol, this is spiritual/scriptural faith. Faith is actually an element that was meant to produce results/evidence/difference, funny how it's been perverted to mean the opposite...
To have faith in God is to have confidence and trust in what He says to do and what will happen, this matures/grows as one walks in the spirit day to day, we begin in little faith and progress to greater faith
Luke 7:9, Matthew 8:10.
Mark 5...
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Meditation- but not mindless meditation, this is meditating on the things of God....
Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Applying spiritual principles- the scriptures are littered with them, naturally, spirituality is a lifestyle which is the application of spiritual principles and this too goes back to abiding.

Obedience- this is an act and form of humility, to be committed to a course of behavior/action despite what we feel. This goes back to spiritual principles and abiding again.
James 4
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Obedience comes in stages, first we may learn to commit to small things and as our spirit strengthens we commit to greater things and things the Spirit urges and we know what things are of the Spirit....
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Seeking God- James 4 again...
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And of course Matthew 33 again... and as well Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

True worship- this is worship in spirit and truth and this is not a superficial course of action but a sincere, powerful connection...

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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3/25/2016 2:50:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 10:58:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/24/2016 10:44:58 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?
That's an interesting topic, Mhykiel.

I realise you don't mean to debate whether spirit exists, and I don't mean to ask that here. What I'd like to know though is how you can tell whether an experience is spiritual, or simply psychological.

I think many people, including atheists, can have experiences that transform them psychologically and emotionally, and may change the paradigm under which they understand themselves, their lives and relationships. Some of those experiences may be ceremonial; some may not.

Is that what you mean by spiritual?

I think the difference between 'spiritual' and psychology is an interesting question. And I don't know. If I had to articulate something I guess some psychological elements are habitual, which would be flesh in nature. I see the brain as the physical harddrive, physical processor for our spirits. So the distinction is probably a nuanced one.

Well as you know atheists are forced to examine everything through a secular filter so they have to accept the spiritual as a psychological aspect only. However since the majority of what we believe, think, pursue, act on and consider all begins in the mind naturally spirituality will impact the psychological nature as well.
What they don't want to believe and what is true is that the spiritual is outside ourselves yet does indeed affect the inside, the mental, emotional the "psychological" but it is not a product of that and this is simple to ascertain unless one is an atheist/materialist.
The source, nature and reality of the spiritual are far beyond what humans are capable of, we just try to interpret what we observe, not invent it.
As a person who has always been a self-examiner I am well acquainted with myself, mind and what is of the Spirit and from God, there is no mistake or confusion about it.


Certainly some events are 'transformative' on a psychological level. And I think being transformative is a key part in a religous or spiritual ceremony.

Of course good point, because like I said a huge part of our being and lifestyles are psychological, so naturally spirituality will intertwine with that aspect of ourselves, but it is easy to discern what is a product of the mind and what is a product of the Spirit, unless of course you are forced to package everything as merely physical.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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3/25/2016 3:28:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
The Spirit opposes the mind people, it does not cradle it or suckle it rather it exposes the mind and the flesh, they are two different things, of two different natures.

We are observing what is already there, what had been there before us and will continue to be, therefore it most certainly is not a product of humans or the mind, thought it effects them. Since spirituality is not something you can grasp with the hands, it is something that is to be grasped by the mind and spirit, that is because all we do begins in the mind but the spirit is not invented by the mind, we only observe it with the mind since the mind is....."the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought."
Just as we perceive the natural world through our minds, we perceive and experience the spiritual through our minds and spirit, though the natural world and spiritual world were not manufactured by the mind, they were already there.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/25/2016 3:39:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 1:01:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

ME: Self hypnosis: In most religious rites, one is told that they will feel spiritually different, and if they have got to a point of taking part in the "Spiritual rite" they are naturally taken up with the euphoria of the event.

The more fancy the event, with the wafting of incense, the ringing of high pitched bells (This is cunning as some people can not hear low pitched sounds and are not deaf) The presenter of the rite dressed in fine raiment and chanting in unintelligible mumbles, will create the effect of some form of "Spiritual experience", similar to speaking in tongues that no one knows is all about, but sounds exciting as you have been told that it is exciting, and "Spiritual" by the leader.

Witch Doctors have the ability to have their subjects to go into trances and become, or do something that they would never normally do, but this is not anything spiritual it is hypnotism based on years of indoctrination of the subjects.

For a person to feel the utmost spiritual experience it is usual that they should be calmed to an extend of almost trance like state, and then self hypnosis will take over and the person will be able to "Jump tall buildings in a single bound".

The aids to creating a spiritual experience are: Chanting in low monotonous tones. Lots of pomp and ceremony. A belief that what is about to happen, will happen. The convincing that you will be better than you were. One should not just jump into these rites, but should be led up to the "Proof" of the outcome by years of religious indoctrination and closer to the event a special teaching from the High Priest of the rite producers.

None of what I have said is contradicting the spiritual experience that is attained through a study and a knowledge of God's Holy Word in the Bible; however this experience is personal and not accompanied by pomp and ceremony.

Trance like states have many times been linked to spiritual experiences. And good point some ceremonies have kind of mechanized or institutionalized the process of inducing trance like states.

I think many people will say such trances open a person up, or help them perceive with out distraction spiritual matters. Some say channel masters others demonic.

You prefer a more intelectual journey. Do you think a weekly or once off trance inducing ceremony can give a person a spiritual epiphany that they might likely arrive at during a scholarly study of holy scripture?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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3/25/2016 3:52:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Circumcision comes to mind. It starts out as a painful physical experience. But turns into a spiritual experience when the practicality becomes apparent the first time you have sex.

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/25/2016 3:54:12 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 2:29:16 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

Like you said above, baptism is a form of public or open display of ones proclamation to their beliefs but in a sense it's almost kind of like a beginner's first steps so I would say in this case it would be unlikely to cause a noticeable spiritual difference and of course I'm making the assumption that by "spiritual difference" you mean noticeable? Could you elaborate on that a little?
To me baptism symbolizes renewal and is a confession/statement of commitment, IMO all the good stuff is what follows when we press forward because as we abide in that through our lifestyle and choices we begin to harvest the fruit. One could get baptized tomorrow and then begin to slip away a week later only to have their seeds robbed from them and so no transformation/difference was accomplished.



I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Well it may come down to what you conclude is "physical" activities but one of the most effective course of actions for spiritual difference/change/growth is making Godly/righteous/spiritual intentional commitments "setting your affections on things above"
Colossians 3:2
Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

BUT.... then you must follow them and let the harvest spring forth. In the spirit it is a give and receive relation (Luke 6:38), your desires, dreams and needs both spiritual and physical are linked to the field and soil of your soul. When you set forth intention (good or bad) you are sowing a seed in that soil, and you of course are familiar with the parable of the sower in Matthew 13.

Here are things that I believe can cause a spiritual difference...

Abiding https://www.biblegateway.com...

Repentance/commitment
Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Note that repentance must be followed by change, this goes back to abiding.

Utilizing faith- Hebrews 11:6, Matthew 17:20
Faith of course...is not some phony suggestion of believing in some ideology with no evidence lol, this is spiritual/scriptural faith. Faith is actually an element that was meant to produce results/evidence/difference, funny how it's been perverted to mean the opposite...
To have faith in God is to have confidence and trust in what He says to do and what will happen, this matures/grows as one walks in the spirit day to day, we begin in little faith and progress to greater faith
Luke 7:9, Matthew 8:10.
Mark 5...
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.


Meditation- but not mindless meditation, this is meditating on the things of God....
Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.


Applying spiritual principles- the scriptures are littered with them, naturally, spirituality is a lifestyle which is the application of spiritual principles and this too goes back to abiding.


Obedience- this is an act and form of humility, to be committed to a course of behavior/action despite what we feel. This goes back to spiritual principles and abiding again.
James 4
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Obedience comes in stages, first we may learn to commit to small things and as our spirit strengthens we commit to greater things and things the Spirit urges and we know what things are of the Spirit....
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Seeking God- James 4 again...
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And of course Matthew 33 again... and as well Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


True worship- this is worship in spirit and truth and this is not a superficial course of action but a sincere, powerful connection...

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Thanks that's quite an abundant list. I'll reply in more detail later.

I to conduct a lot of metathinking. Thinking about how or why I think things. And I think I know what your talking about having a strong realization of distinct parts of your person.

Sometimes I can hear thoughts in my head that are like automatic. But not really thoughts I'm having. And I can ask 'my brain' questions and get answers. Memories like a movie play and I can (probably 85 percent acurately) get details I didn't pay attention to the first time.

I definately feel and think as if there is a part of me not my thoughts or feelings. That part is really chill observes a lot but also makes up a deep foundation of my whole.

Do you think there are institutional ceremonies, done by churches or groups that can bring a person to realizing their own composite self?
EtrnlVw
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3/25/2016 4:22:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 3:54:12 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 2:29:16 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

Like you said above, baptism is a form of public or open display of ones proclamation to their beliefs but in a sense it's almost kind of like a beginner's first steps so I would say in this case it would be unlikely to cause a noticeable spiritual difference and of course I'm making the assumption that by "spiritual difference" you mean noticeable? Could you elaborate on that a little?
To me baptism symbolizes renewal and is a confession/statement of commitment, IMO all the good stuff is what follows when we press forward because as we abide in that through our lifestyle and choices we begin to harvest the fruit. One could get baptized tomorrow and then begin to slip away a week later only to have their seeds robbed from them and so no transformation/difference was accomplished.



I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Well it may come down to what you conclude is "physical" activities but one of the most effective course of actions for spiritual difference/change/growth is making Godly/righteous/spiritual intentional commitments "setting your affections on things above"
Colossians 3:2
Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

BUT.... then you must follow them and let the harvest spring forth. In the spirit it is a give and receive relation (Luke 6:38), your desires, dreams and needs both spiritual and physical are linked to the field and soil of your soul. When you set forth intention (good or bad) you are sowing a seed in that soil, and you of course are familiar with the parable of the sower in Matthew 13.

Here are things that I believe can cause a spiritual difference...

Abiding https://www.biblegateway.com...

Repentance/commitment
Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Note that repentance must be followed by change, this goes back to abiding.

Utilizing faith- Hebrews 11:6, Matthew 17:20
Faith of course...is not some phony suggestion of believing in some ideology with no evidence lol, this is spiritual/scriptural faith. Faith is actually an element that was meant to produce results/evidence/difference, funny how it's been perverted to mean the opposite...
To have faith in God is to have confidence and trust in what He says to do and what will happen, this matures/grows as one walks in the spirit day to day, we begin in little faith and progress to greater faith
Luke 7:9, Matthew 8:10.
Mark 5...
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.


Meditation- but not mindless meditation, this is meditating on the things of God....
Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.


Applying spiritual principles- the scriptures are littered with them, naturally, spirituality is a lifestyle which is the application of spiritual principles and this too goes back to abiding.


Obedience- this is an act and form of humility, to be committed to a course of behavior/action despite what we feel. This goes back to spiritual principles and abiding again.
James 4
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Obedience comes in stages, first we may learn to commit to small things and as our spirit strengthens we commit to greater things and things the Spirit urges and we know what things are of the Spirit....
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Seeking God- James 4 again...
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And of course Matthew 33 again... and as well Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


True worship- this is worship in spirit and truth and this is not a superficial course of action but a sincere, powerful connection...

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Thanks that's quite an abundant list. I'll reply in more detail later.

I to conduct a lot of metathinking. Thinking about how or why I think things. And I think I know what your talking about having a strong realization of distinct parts of your person.

Sometimes I can hear thoughts in my head that are like automatic. But not really thoughts I'm having. And I can ask 'my brain' questions and get answers. Memories like a movie play and I can (probably 85 percent acurately) get details I didn't pay attention to the first time.

I definately feel and think as if there is a part of me not my thoughts or feelings. That part is really chill observes a lot but also makes up a deep foundation of my whole.


Do you think there are institutional ceremonies, done by churches or groups that can bring a person to realizing their own composite self?

Well going by the definition of ceremonies "a formal religious or public occasion, typically one celebrating a particular event or anniversary, ritual observances and procedures performed at grand and formal occasions" I think there would arise a contradiction of terms depending on what you mean by "realizing their composite self".

Basically I'm unsure of what you really want to know here, the way you asked it sounds contradictory, as I would not equate public rituals with self realization..... I just need to know what you mean by "realizing their own composite self" really...
Mhykiel
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3/25/2016 4:53:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 3:52:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Circumcision comes to mind. It starts out as a painful physical experience. But turns into a spiritual experience when the practicality becomes apparent the first time you have sex.

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Well circumsion was a jewish practice to seperate jew from gentile. I think the only benefit from it is easier up keep and cleaning.

Do you think sex is a physical activity with spiritual connotations? I'm inclined to think so.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,646
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3/25/2016 4:59:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 3:28:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
The Spirit opposes the mind people, it does not cradle it or suckle it rather it exposes the mind and the flesh, they are two different things, of two different natures.

But, the term "Spirit"is a meaningless word, so your explanation is also meaningless.

We are observing what is already there, what had been there before us and will continue to be, therefore it most certainly is not a product of humans or the mind, thought it effects them. Since spirituality is not something you can grasp with the hands, it is something that is to be grasped by the mind and spirit, that is because all we do begins in the mind but the spirit is not invented by the mind, we only observe it with the mind since the mind is....."the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought."

Sorry, but if that were true, we would all be observing it, but since you are the only one who does, we can conclude you have hallucinations.

Just as we perceive the natural world through our minds, we perceive and experience the spiritual through our minds and spirit, though the natural world and spiritual world were not manufactured by the mind, they were already there.

But, the only thing "there"is that which is of reality. Your hallucinations are all in YOUR mind, manufactured by it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/25/2016 5:01:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 4:22:19 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:54:12 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 2:29:16 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Like you said above, baptism is a form of public or open display of ones proclamation to their beliefs but in a sense it's almost kind of like a beginner's first steps so I would say in this case it would be unlikely to cause a noticeable spiritual difference and of course I'm making the assumption that by "spiritual difference" you mean noticeable? Could you elaborate on that a little?
To me baptism symbolizes renewal and is a confession/statement of commitment, IMO all the good stuff is what follows when we press forward because as we abide in that through our lifestyle and choices we begin to harvest the fruit. One could get baptized tomorrow and then begin to slip away a week later only to have their seeds robbed from them and so no transformation/difference was accomplished.



I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Well it may come down to what you conclude is "physical" activities but one of the most effective course of actions for spiritual difference/change/growth is making Godly/righteous/spiritual intentional commitments "setting your affections on things above"
Colossians 3:2
Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

BUT.... then you must follow them and let the harvest spring forth. In the spirit it is a give and receive relation (Luke 6:38), your desires, dreams and needs both spiritual and physical are linked to the field and soil of your soul. When you set forth intention (good or bad) you are sowing a seed in that soil, and you of course are familiar with the parable of the sower in Matthew 13.

Here are things that I believe can cause a spiritual difference...

Abiding https://www.biblegateway.com...

Repentance/commitment
Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Note that repentance must be followed by change, this goes back to abiding.

Utilizing faith- Hebrews 11:6, Matthew 17:20
Faith of course...is not some phony suggestion of believing in some ideology with no evidence lol, this is spiritual/scriptural faith. Faith is actually an element that was meant to produce results/evidence/difference, funny how it's been perverted to mean the opposite...
To have faith in God is to have confidence and trust in what He says to do and what will happen, this matures/grows as one walks in the spirit day to day, we begin in little faith and progress to greater faith
Luke 7:9, Matthew 8:10.
Mark 5...
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.


Meditation- but not mindless meditation, this is meditating on the things of God....
Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.


Applying spiritual principles- the scriptures are littered with them, naturally, spirituality is a lifestyle which is the application of spiritual principles and this too goes back to abiding.


Obedience- this is an act and form of humility, to be committed to a course of behavior/action despite what we feel. This goes back to spiritual principles and abiding again.
James 4
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Obedience comes in stages, first we may learn to commit to small things and as our spirit strengthens we commit to greater things and things the Spirit urges and we know what things are of the Spirit....
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Seeking God- James 4 again...
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

And of course Matthew 33 again... and as well Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


True worship- this is worship in spirit and truth and this is not a superficial course of action but a sincere, powerful connection...

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Thanks that's quite an abundant list. I'll reply in more detail later.

I to conduct a lot of metathinking. Thinking about how or why I think things. And I think I know what your talking about having a strong realization of distinct parts of your person.

Sometimes I can hear thoughts in my head that are like automatic. But not really thoughts I'm having. And I can ask 'my brain' questions and get answers. Memories like a movie play and I can (probably 85 percent acurately) get details I didn't pay attention to the first time.

I definately feel and think as if there is a part of me not my thoughts or feelings. That part is really chill observes a lot but also makes up a deep foundation of my whole.



Do you think there are institutional ceremonies, done by churches or groups that can bring a person to realizing their own composite self?

Well going by the definition of ceremonies "a formal religious or public occasion, typically one celebrating a particular event or anniversary, ritual observances and procedures performed at grand and formal occasions" I think there would arise a contradiction of terms depending on what you mean by "realizing their composite self".

Basically I'm unsure of what you really want to know here, the way you asked it sounds contradictory, as I would not equate public rituals with self realization..... I just need to know what you mean by "realizing their own composite self" really...

By "Self Realization" I'm referring to coming to an understanding or knowledge of oneself being a composite of fleshy body and spiritual soul.

Do you think there are any public or even secretive ceremonies conducted in by a group that can produce in a person a perception of spiritual forces or spirit within themselves?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/25/2016 5:11:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you : :

The most transforming information that God has given a few of us to understand is this; http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/25/2016 5:15:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 5:11:18 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you : :

The most transforming information that God has given a few of us to understand is this; http://www.debate.org...

Do you think there are any ceremonies that could facilitate aquiring this trans-formative knowledge?
nonwo
Posts: 100
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3/25/2016 5:37:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 5:15:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 5:11:18 PM, nonwo wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you : :

The most transforming information that God has given a few of us to understand is this; http://www.debate.org...

Do you think there are any ceremonies that could facilitate aquiring this trans-formative knowledge? : :

For those who believe that we all came from the Voice of God, they can jump for joy knowing they finally found the Truth.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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3/25/2016 10:09:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 4:53:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:52:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Circumcision comes to mind. It starts out as a painful physical experience. But turns into a spiritual experience when the practicality becomes apparent the first time you have sex.

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Well circumsion was a jewish practice to seperate jew from gentile. I think the only benefit from it is easier up keep and cleaning.

Do you think sex is a physical activity with spiritual connotations? I'm inclined to think so.

Yes, that is why virgins were offered to the Gods as sacrifice.
If the Jews used circumcision to separate the Jews from the Gentiles and because it made cleaning after easier. Then the Muslims used circumcision to separate themselves from the Jews by also making anal sex an abomination.
The Arab population is 434 million compared to 14 million Jews. Both practice circumcision. But tbe Quran prohibits anal sex and the Torah does not, which explains the population difference.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/25/2016 10:44:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

The One True God does not require rites and ceremonies, as he proved with Israel, they benefit no-one.

All he really asks is that we recognise and accept the exponential superiority of his wisdom and ability to recognise what is best for the whole of his creation, not just our little interests, and behave accordingly.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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3/26/2016 12:23:26 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 4:53:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:52:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Circumcision comes to mind. It starts out as a painful physical experience. But turns into a spiritual experience when the practicality becomes apparent the first time you have sex.

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Well circumsion was a jewish practice to seperate jew from gentile. I think the only benefit from it is easier up keep and cleaning.

Do you think sex is a physical activity with spiritual connotations? I'm inclined to think so.

ME: Upkeep, was that a pun?
Mhykiel
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3/26/2016 12:27:37 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 12:23:26 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 3/25/2016 4:53:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:52:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

Circumcision comes to mind. It starts out as a painful physical experience. But turns into a spiritual experience when the practicality becomes apparent the first time you have sex.

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

Well circumsion was a jewish practice to seperate jew from gentile. I think the only benefit from it is easier up keep and cleaning.

Do you think sex is a physical activity with spiritual connotations? I'm inclined to think so.

ME: Upkeep, was that a pun?

ha no I was typing on my phone.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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3/26/2016 12:27:56 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 4:59:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:28:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
The Spirit opposes the mind people, it does not cradle it or suckle it rather it exposes the mind and the flesh, they are two different things, of two different natures.

But, the term "Spirit"is a meaningless word, so your explanation is also meaningless.

We are observing what is already there, what had been there before us and will continue to be, therefore it most certainly is not a product of humans or the mind, thought it effects them. Since spirituality is not something you can grasp with the hands, it is something that is to be grasped by the mind and spirit, that is because all we do begins in the mind but the spirit is not invented by the mind, we only observe it with the mind since the mind is....."the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought."

Sorry, but if that were true, we would all be observing it, but since you are the only one who does, we can conclude you have hallucinations.

Just as we perceive the natural world through our minds, we perceive and experience the spiritual through our minds and spirit, though the natural world and spiritual world were not manufactured by the mind, they were already there.

But, the only thing "there"is that which is of reality. Your hallucinations are all in YOUR mind, manufactured by it.

ME: Spirit is a word often used in our language. A horse or a child may have "Spirit" and there is more, of course. Does the "spirit" have a definition?

The other think when you deal with spirits is from whence the spirit comes from. If you are an atheist of an evolutionist the spirit realm is non-existent, but to the religious the spirit is real, and no human can prove that to be incorrect.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/26/2016 12:50:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
If one comes to a point in their life where they see, there is more to it then the physical, and seek out the spiritual isn"t an unusual story one hears from others who came to the Lord. It"s just about standard, but a physical activity that is associated to spiritual could be any matter of obedience that translates to a physical activity. Hand someone on the street an unexpected financial hand or one could be spiritually compelled to go to so place, a they meet someone and that person comes to the Lord via their conversation. There are endless stories of such nature. One could experience spiritual uplifting singing songs with others of the same spirit, or listing to preaching and teaching that is sound.

Religious ceremonies can affirm one"s community of faith, it would suck to be there by yourself, but that maybe its sole purpose, community. And many activities can promote the sharing of spirit even a thing like sports when crowds of fans share in the same team or school or community spirit. It"s not limited to religion; it depends on the spirit.
Peternosaint
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3/26/2016 7:03:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/25/2016 1:01:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 3/24/2016 9:41:54 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I often equate Religous Ceromonies to something like graduation or 'rights of passage' stuff. That they are localized pin point projections of a gradual change. That things like 'baptisms' are public displays of an inner change.

Now I've known some to get a baptism and it was a very transformative event for them. Maybe this was because of a new social identity or truly inner working, I don't know.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

The question obviously implies a spiritual existence, instead of debating if it does or not I would like to keep the thread on topic with the posed question. Thank you

ME: Self hypnosis: In most religious rites, one is told that they will feel spiritually different, and if they have got to a point of taking part in the "Spiritual rite" they are naturally taken up with the euphoria of the event.

The more fancy the event, with the wafting of incense, the ringing of high pitched bells (This is cunning as some people can not hear low pitched sounds and are not deaf) The presenter of the rite dressed in fine raiment and chanting in unintelligible mumbles, will create the effect of some form of "Spiritual experience", similar to speaking in tongues that no one knows is all about, but sounds exciting as you have been told that it is exciting, and "Spiritual" by the leader.

Witch Doctors have the ability to have their subjects to go into trances and become, or do something that they would never normally do, but this is not anything spiritual it is hypnotism based on years of indoctrination of the subjects.

For a person to feel the utmost spiritual experience it is usual that they should be calmed to an extend of almost trance like state, and then self hypnosis will take over and the person will be able to "Jump tall buildings in a single bound".

The aids to creating a spiritual experience are: Chanting in low monotonous tones. Lots of pomp and ceremony. A belief that what is about to happen, will happen. The convincing that you will be better than you were. One should not just jump into these rites, but should be led up to the "Proof" of the outcome by years of religious indoctrination and closer to the event a special teaching from the High Priest of the rite producers.

None of what I have said is contradicting the spiritual experience that is attained through a study and a knowledge of God's Holy Word in the Bible; however this experience is personal and not accompanied by pomp and ceremony.

I'm curious what physical activities do you think can cause a spiritual difference?

This is your question: It is a little difficult to understand correctly what you need, but how about you go to a Pentecostal Extravaganza, with t he flashing lights, the drums, the chanting the built up euphoria devised by selected participants before the service and you will see a "Spirit" at work, Not God's spirit though.

The human mind can be entered by others if they pick the right subject. I for one will not let that happen, as my mind is my place of sanctuary.

AS to whether it causes a 'Spiritual event' these rites if they are well rehearsed can create some form of hypnosis in where the audience believe that something spiritual is happening.

DO you believe in the occult? Isn't that a "Spiritual" Event where people believe that they have been visited or whatever?
DanneJeRusse
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3/26/2016 2:29:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 12:27:56 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 3/25/2016 4:59:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:28:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
The Spirit opposes the mind people, it does not cradle it or suckle it rather it exposes the mind and the flesh, they are two different things, of two different natures.

But, the term "Spirit"is a meaningless word, so your explanation is also meaningless.

We are observing what is already there, what had been there before us and will continue to be, therefore it most certainly is not a product of humans or the mind, thought it effects them. Since spirituality is not something you can grasp with the hands, it is something that is to be grasped by the mind and spirit, that is because all we do begins in the mind but the spirit is not invented by the mind, we only observe it with the mind since the mind is....."the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought."

Sorry, but if that were true, we would all be observing it, but since you are the only one who does, we can conclude you have hallucinations.

Just as we perceive the natural world through our minds, we perceive and experience the spiritual through our minds and spirit, though the natural world and spiritual world were not manufactured by the mind, they were already there.

But, the only thing "there"is that which is of reality. Your hallucinations are all in YOUR mind, manufactured by it.

ME: Spirit is a word often used in our language. A horse or a child may have "Spirit" and there is more, of course. Does the "spirit" have a definition?

Yes, it can be defined as alcohol.

The other think when you deal with spirits is from whence the spirit comes from. If you are an atheist of an evolutionist the spirit realm is non-existent, but to the religious the spirit is real, and no human can prove that to be incorrect.

Yes, I understand theists believe in lots of things that have never been shown to exist, like the spirit realm, their gods, demons and all kinds of other ghouls and goblins they conjure from the dark recesses of their disengaged, cob-webbed minds.

Btw, you do know what the word "real" means, right?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
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3/26/2016 4:13:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 2:29:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 12:27:56 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 3/25/2016 4:59:25 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/25/2016 3:28:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
The Spirit opposes the mind people, it does not cradle it or suckle it rather it exposes the mind and the flesh, they are two different things, of two different natures.

But, the term "Spirit"is a meaningless word, so your explanation is also meaningless.

We are observing what is already there, what had been there before us and will continue to be, therefore it most certainly is not a product of humans or the mind, thought it effects them. Since spirituality is not something you can grasp with the hands, it is something that is to be grasped by the mind and spirit, that is because all we do begins in the mind but the spirit is not invented by the mind, we only observe it with the mind since the mind is....."the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought."

Sorry, but if that were true, we would all be observing it, but since you are the only one who does, we can conclude you have hallucinations.

Just as we perceive the natural world through our minds, we perceive and experience the spiritual through our minds and spirit, though the natural world and spiritual world were not manufactured by the mind, they were already there.

But, the only thing "there"is that which is of reality. Your hallucinations are all in YOUR mind, manufactured by it.

ME: Spirit is a word often used in our language. A horse or a child may have "Spirit" and there is more, of course. Does the "spirit" have a definition?

Yes, it can be defined as alcohol.

That is certainyl one definition, but not one I use, since I rarely drink alcohol in any form, and never spirits.


The other think when you deal with spirits is from whence the spirit comes from. If you are an atheist of an evolutionist the spirit realm is non-existent, but to the religious the spirit is real, and no human can prove that to be incorrect.

Yes, I understand theists believe in lots of things that have never been shown to exist, like the spirit realm, their gods, demons and all kinds of other ghouls and goblins they conjure from the dark recesses of their disengaged, cob-webbed minds.

Jehovah, like gravity or the wind, is easily discernible by the effect he has had on his creation.

In fact he is discernible from creation itself, should anyone bother to look.

Btw, you do know what the word "real" means, right?

Not if his posts are anything to go by he doesn't, lol.

I on the other hand do, and have experienced it. Unfortunately this world is not truly real, it is a distortion of what should be, and will be.