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How did light exist before any stars existed?

Chloe8
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3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/26/2016 3:25:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Yeah, its all very weird.

Also, isn't it curious that an all powerful god took six days and then rested? If he was all powerful, why not get it done in an instant? If he is so powerful, why did he get so exhausted he had to rest?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 3:32:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

I look at that from a position of priorities, in that, what men of those times considered priorities, things that were important to them from their position of understanding the world around them. Their only real knowledge was that of the difference between night and day, the light and the dark. From there, it was the firmament, land and water and plants, all the things they understood were the priorities for survival. Lights in the sky were not much of a priority for them as they clearly didn't understand moon, planets and stars.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 3:52:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:25:20 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Yeah, its all very weird.

Also, isn't it curious that an all powerful god took six days and then rested? If he was all powerful, why not get it done in an instant? If he is so powerful, why did he get so exhausted he had to rest?

Exactly!
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 3:53:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:28:08 PM, tarantula wrote:
The Biblical creation story reads like a fairy tale, which in all probability it is.

Agree.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 3:55:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:32:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

I look at that from a position of priorities, in that, what men of those times considered priorities, things that were important to them from their position of understanding the world around them. Their only real knowledge was that of the difference between night and day, the light and the dark. From there, it was the firmament, land and water and plants, all the things they understood were the priorities for survival. Lights in the sky were not much of a priority for them as they clearly didn't understand moon, planets and stars.

Yes these ancient people didn't even know where light came from.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 4:08:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

Technically, that's true, as electromagnetic radiation, the CMBR was glowing when it was opaque, before stars formed. Those photons still permeate the universe.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/26/2016 4:11:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:08:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

Technically, that's true, as electromagnetic radiation, the CMBR was glowing when it was opaque, before stars formed. Those photons still permeate the universe.

Exactly. And the process of star formation itself would have released large amounts of light.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/26/2016 4:19:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

Well, first of all you're assuming a literalist interpretation. I've met many theists who believe in a non-literal interpretation. A Jewish physics professor at my university saw genesis as, basically, a Bronze shepherd's attempt to explain a vision of the creation of the universe via the big bang in the only language which he was familiar with. Lemaitre, who came up with the Big Bang in the first place, was a Catholic priest. If you don't take a literal interpretation, the 'light' could have been the light present following the big bang, or during stellar formation.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 4:25:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

The source was the energy released from the Big Bang whereupon the newly inflated universe was an ocean of electromagnetic radiation glowing hot. However, at that time, this ocean was completely opaque, like a dense fog. Hence, technically, you couldn't really observe it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/26/2016 4:28:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
The OPer obviously doesn"t have the depth of thought to realize that what is said there is that God is the source of light mentioned in the third verse and His Word is that Light. Hence He spoke while present in His creation, which didn't happen until His Spirit moved on the face of the waters.

Also this generational story is originally told by who? Considering that only God was there until man was made of which man was the last thing made. therefore to be true it would have to been described from God's view, and told to man.

Also the OPer who seems to take an atheist view states how much time is involved in the first six days, but doesn"t know how long a day is in this description. Note that the day ends when what God said is fulfilled. That could take how long, when the God of this scripture inhabits eternity?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 4:29:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:19:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

Well, first of all you're assuming a literalist interpretation. I've met many theists who believe in a non-literal interpretation. A Jewish physics professor at my university saw genesis as, basically, a Bronze shepherd's attempt to explain a vision of the creation of the universe via the big bang in the only language which he was familiar with. Lemaitre, who came up with the Big Bang in the first place, was a Catholic priest. If you don't take a literal interpretation, the 'light' could have been the light present following the big bang, or during stellar formation.

Yes I assume a literal interpretation as that is clearly the intention of the author. I agree light could exist before stars fully formed during the big bang. I don't accept Christianity is compatible with the big bang theory. If the Abrahamic god existed it wouldn't lie about how the universe was created. Why would the god not give an accurate description? Surely it would have known humans would eventually disprove the literal genesis creation account?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/26/2016 4:30:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Christ was the light.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/26/2016 4:32:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
(Revelation 22:5)
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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3/26/2016 4:33:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:11:19 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:08:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

Technically, that's true, as electromagnetic radiation, the CMBR was glowing when it was opaque, before stars formed. Those photons still permeate the universe.

Exactly. And the process of star formation itself would have released large amounts of light.

Agreed. Of course, it's highly unlikely the men who penned Scriptures couldn't possibly have known any of this such that it would validate Day 1 of Genesis. Not only that, it mentions the separation of the light from the dark, calling them the morning and the evening, the first day.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/26/2016 4:34:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Wow Chloe. Only attacks on Christianity I see. You got any Quran critiques? Nope. Because Liberals attack Christians, not other faiths, right? Are you a bigot towards Christians? Yup.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/26/2016 4:36:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:33:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:11:19 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:08:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

Technically, that's true, as electromagnetic radiation, the CMBR was glowing when it was opaque, before stars formed. Those photons still permeate the universe.

Exactly. And the process of star formation itself would have released large amounts of light.

Agreed. Of course, it's highly unlikely the men who penned Scriptures couldn't possibly have known any of this such that it would validate Day 1 of Genesis. Not only that, it mentions the separation of the light from the dark, calling them the morning and the evening, the first day.

You missed Revelation 22:5. Of course, you miss a lot of things.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 4:36:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:28:06 PM, DPMartin wrote:
The OPer obviously doesn"t have the depth of thought to realize that what is said there is that God is the source of light mentioned in the third verse and His Word is that Light. Hence He spoke while present in His creation, which didn't happen until His Spirit moved on the face of the waters.

Also this generational story is originally told by who? Considering that only God was there until man was made of which man was the last thing made. therefore to be true it would have to been described from God's view, and told to man.

So you believe plants received light magically from nowhere until God got round to creating the sun?

Also the OPer who seems to take an atheist view states how much time is involved in the first six days, but doesn"t know how long a day is in this description. Note that the day ends when what God said is fulfilled. That could take how long, when the God of this scripture inhabits eternity?

so even though it says day it could mean millions of years? How come in all other parts of the bible day means earth day? Coincidence? I don't think so. A day means an earth day as we know it.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/26/2016 4:39:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:29:59 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:19:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

Well, first of all you're assuming a literalist interpretation. I've met many theists who believe in a non-literal interpretation. A Jewish physics professor at my university saw genesis as, basically, a Bronze shepherd's attempt to explain a vision of the creation of the universe via the big bang in the only language which he was familiar with. Lemaitre, who came up with the Big Bang in the first place, was a Catholic priest. If you don't take a literal interpretation, the 'light' could have been the light present following the big bang, or during stellar formation.

Yes I assume a literal interpretation as that is clearly the intention of the author. I agree light could exist before stars fully formed during the big bang. I don't accept Christianity is compatible with the big bang theory. If the Abrahamic god existed it wouldn't lie about how the universe was created. Why would the god not give an accurate description? Surely it would have known humans would eventually disprove the literal genesis creation account?

Most serious theologians do not believe that god sat down and wrote Genesis, then handed it off to someone. Typically, it is believed that there are at around four different sources which were combined into the Torah, and that divine inspiration played into it somehow.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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3/26/2016 4:44:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:33:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:11:19 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:08:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

Technically, that's true, as electromagnetic radiation, the CMBR was glowing when it was opaque, before stars formed. Those photons still permeate the universe.

Exactly. And the process of star formation itself would have released large amounts of light.

Agreed. Of course, it's highly unlikely the men who penned Scriptures couldn't possibly have known any of this such that it would validate Day 1 of Genesis. Not only that, it mentions the separation of the light from the dark, calling them the morning and the evening, the first day.

If we take divine inspiration for granted, I could see how an argument could be made for someone like the Jahwist misinterpreting and clumsily describing a vision of the universe's creation. In most non-literalist interpretations, sacred texts are more like a necessarily futile, remarkably human groping towards the understanding of revealed truth. I'm not saying that it's proof of divine inspiration, but I don't think that it's a particularly good argument against divine inspiration, just against literalism.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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3/26/2016 4:47:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Many Biblical terms are used with a dual meaning, "light" and "dark" for example can also refer to different spiritual attitudes.

See Isaiah 5:20, John 3:20 and many more:

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com...

The opening of Genesis can legitimately be rendered:

"The earth became formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

That is a spiritual darkness (angelic rebellion) had overcome the earth and God was intervening in this, re beautifying the earth after a rebellion.

Harry.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 4:57:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:34:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Wow Chloe. Only attacks on Christianity I see. You got any Quran critiques? Nope. Because Liberals attack Christians, not other faiths, right? Are you a bigot towards Christians? Yup.

I make good arguments disproving Christianity. If you don't like what I say just ignore my threads. I'm not obliged under any equality rules to also make arguments against Islam. However i don't like Islam at all. You won't me defending it. I'm also yet to come across a Muslim on this site, so arguments disproving Islam would likely be agreed upon and uncontested.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 5:03:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:39:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:29:59 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:19:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

Well, first of all you're assuming a literalist interpretation. I've met many theists who believe in a non-literal interpretation. A Jewish physics professor at my university saw genesis as, basically, a Bronze shepherd's attempt to explain a vision of the creation of the universe via the big bang in the only language which he was familiar with. Lemaitre, who came up with the Big Bang in the first place, was a Catholic priest. If you don't take a literal interpretation, the 'light' could have been the light present following the big bang, or during stellar formation.

Yes I assume a literal interpretation as that is clearly the intention of the author. I agree light could exist before stars fully formed during the big bang. I don't accept Christianity is compatible with the big bang theory. If the Abrahamic god existed it wouldn't lie about how the universe was created. Why would the god not give an accurate description? Surely it would have known humans would eventually disprove the literal genesis creation account?

Most serious theologians do not believe that god sat down and wrote Genesis, then handed it off to someone. Typically, it is believed that there are at around four different sources which were combined into the Torah, and that divine inspiration played into it somehow.

Which suggests there was no divine assistance. Just men guessing and claiming divine influence. The fact a contradictory genesis creation account exists further supports my view.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/26/2016 5:13:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

How can you tell something is poetry?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/26/2016 5:19:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:57:28 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:34:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

Wow Chloe. Only attacks on Christianity I see. You got any Quran critiques? Nope. Because Liberals attack Christians, not other faiths, right? Are you a bigot towards Christians? Yup.

I make good arguments disproving Christianity. If you don't like what I say just ignore my threads. I'm not obliged under any equality rules to also make arguments against Islam. However i don't like Islam at all. You won't me defending it. I'm also yet to come across a Muslim on this site, so arguments disproving Islam would likely be agreed upon and uncontested.

Jumping from primitive sex to cosmology is quite a spread. Just more evidence of a pandora box syndrome.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/26/2016 5:19:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 4:11:10 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/26/2016 4:00:43 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

... light did exist before stars. What on earth makes you think that it didn't?

If the genesis account is true what causes the light? It's clear it needs a source.

Where did the Background Cosmic Radiation come from?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,598
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3/26/2016 7:09:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/26/2016 5:13:39 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/26/2016 3:11:53 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Day one: God creates heaven and earth, and light and dark.
Day two: God creates the firmament.
Day three: God creates land in the water, then plants.
Day four: God creates the sun and moon; then, as an afterthought, he creates the other stars.
Day five: God creates water animals, then birds.
Day six: God creates land animals, then Adam.
Day seven: God rests.

The author of genesis clearly didn't know you need to have a source of light for light to exist. it's impossible for there to be light without any stars. therefore his best guess on the order things came to exist has proven to be incorrect.

It's also hilarious how god allegedly took so long over earth and just created the rest of the universe in one sixth of the time he spent creating earth. It shows the author thought that earth was the centre of the universe, flat and orbited my two smaller objects called the moon and the sun. He also thought stars were small insignificant objects.

How can you tell something is poetry?

Why would such vital information be poetry? Why is there two contradictory creation accounts?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.