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Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

EddieKramer
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3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Hearsay from unreliable sources. Martyrs have been willing to die for all kinds of weird (and untrue) beliefs through the ages.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

It could have been anything. Paul's Jesus was a heavenly being, not human.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

It's almost universally agreed that it was a poorly researched book. He basically ignored the arguments of mythicists. His scholarly consensus is also unverifiable:

http://www.patheos.com...

http://www.patheos.com...

Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/27/2016 6:21:58 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona.
[snipped]
Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.

You link to a debate between William L. Craig and Bart D. Ehrman.

The Authors of the book in the OP were Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona.

Where is your evidence that those Authors of the Book presented int he OP reversed their conclusions they have in the book "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus "?
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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3/27/2016 6:22:45 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

The question you have to ask yourself is what is more likely, xyz or some falsehood is involved.

People have being to known to shall we say stretch the truth a little.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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3/27/2016 6:34:02 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Hearsay from unreliable sources. Martyrs have been willing to die for all kinds of weird (and untrue) beliefs through the ages.

Heresay from unreliable sources

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

It could have been anything. Paul's Jesus was a heavenly being, not human.

Heresay from unreliable sources

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Heresay from unreliable sources


4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Heresay from unreliable sources

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

It's almost universally agreed that it was a poorly researched book. He basically ignored the arguments of mythicists. His scholarly consensus is also unverifiable:

http://www.patheos.com...

http://www.patheos.com...

Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.

An unrealiable source.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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3/27/2016 6:42:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.
Says who, regarding the disciples belief?
2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.
Is their any ex biblical evidence of this hatred, even persecution?
3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.
Wow a skeptic converted, never happened in the entire history of mankind.
4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.
And three contradictory eyewitness reports regarding the empty tomb
This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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3/27/2016 6:47:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:21:58 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona.
[snipped]
Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.

You link to a debate between William L. Craig and Bart D. Ehrman.

The Authors of the book in the OP were Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona.

Where is your evidence that those Authors of the Book presented int he OP reversed their conclusions they have in the book "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus "?

Oops, my mistake. I was careless. I was thinking of Ehrman's book "The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth". Most of my comments apply to that book.
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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3/27/2016 10:19:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:34:02 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Hearsay from unreliable sources. Martyrs have been willing to die for all kinds of weird (and untrue) beliefs through the ages.

Heresay from unreliable sources

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

It could have been anything. Paul's Jesus was a heavenly being, not human.

Heresay from unreliable sources

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Heresay from unreliable sources


4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Heresay from unreliable sources

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

It's almost universally agreed that it was a poorly researched book. He basically ignored the arguments of mythicists. His scholarly consensus is also unverifiable:

http://www.patheos.com...

http://www.patheos.com...

Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.

An unrealiable source.

You obviously don't understand primary sources or hearsay. If I am telling you something directly and it is not what someone else said or did then it is a firsthand account and not hearsay.
Goose.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/27/2016 11:52:12 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Setting aside the question of resurrection, Eddie, modern, best-practice evidence that a particular person had been executed would typically require:

1) an authenticated official record of birth;
2) Independent corroboration that the person tried is the person so identified, and not somebody else;
3) a documented chain of custody between sentencing and execution;
4) execution by competent, trained personnel according to standard methods under trained and registered, independent medical supervision; and
5) recorded medical confirmation of death by a trained and registered medical professional.

Without this chain of evidence, a modern court could easily conclude reasonable doubt that either:
1) The person tried was not the person identified;
2) The person convicted was not the person executed; or
3) The execution was completed unsuccessfully.

As you're aware, Eddie, the necessary skills didn't exist then, and the necessary record-keeping hasn't been produced, so there will always be reasonable doubt regarding the execution alone. And the doubt is called 'reasonable' is because it does occur that people are tried under false names, the wrong person is executed, or upon being executed, doesn't die -- in fact, history is full of such incidents.

And when we consider what evidence a modern court would need to find that a person had actually returned from the dead, that would surely include evidence of a successful execution plus additional proof of life, of identity, and of uniqueness of the individual.

It's simply unreasonable to hope that any historian can show the execution and resurrection of any ancient figure beyond reasonable doubt, or even beyond the balance of probability.

So what's the point of chasing arguments like this?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,296
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3/27/2016 12:29:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

The lazy man's version:
tahirimanov
Posts: 43
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3/27/2016 1:26:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
A) Pre-Death, Death, After-Death Pre-Resurrection, Resurrection, and Post-Resurrection stories are different in all four gospels. How do you harmonise them?
B) Ascension is absent in gospels.
C) Paul fails in all True-Prophet tests, but succeeds in False-Prophet tests given by OT.
D) Which is more likely explanation, resurrection or weird guy took the dead body without anyone noticing it? There are other explanations, if you were an alien who arrived to Earth just now, and being presented with all likely explanations which ones you would choose as most likely and which ones as least likely?
I am smart.....
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,328
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3/27/2016 2:14:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Hearsay from unreliable sources. Martyrs have been willing to die for all kinds of weird (and untrue) beliefs through the ages.

That is irrelevant, the argument is not because they were martyrs what they were martyred for was true (that's to be determined after the fact), it's because they were willing to be martyred it was most likely not a lie or a hoax.... it eliminates the assumption that the people involved were in on an elaborate prank or just some random hearsay making the testimonies more solid and reliable not necessarily true, rather supported.
I think if there is a shortage of a wide range of solid material evidence the next best course of action is to eliminate all other possibilities, like is this a hoax, or is it a lie, can it be trusted and is it reliable or does it have a trustworthy foundation.


2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

It could have been anything. Paul's Jesus was a heavenly being, not human.

Lol, it could have been anything?? yes of course anything other than what he testified to right??
Paul's Jesus was the Jesus of the Gospels who is both Heavenly and for a time human. Paul's Jesus was the Messiah and redemption of sins, but again you miss the point.
Paul was a highly committed religious, educated man with well known social and religious status before his conversion, the argument of course is what and why would Paul convert from something he was so unified with.....? this eliminates once again the assumption that the events that transpired never took place, solidifying the accounts and epistles as reliable witness not necessarily proof. These were not some religious dogma or hearsay events, these were people testifying to physical, spiritual actual events and this creates separation in the long line of martyrs, not all martyrs are created equal.... as suicide bombers and others of that genre simply do what they're told to possess something they were told they would have.... this is not the case with Paul, he had his own, honest realization without the aid of any religious agenda, at all actually.


3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.


4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

So the tomb was not empty?


This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

It's almost universally agreed that it was a poorly researched book. He basically ignored the arguments of mythicists. His scholarly consensus is also unverifiable:

http://www.patheos.com...

http://www.patheos.com...

Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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3/27/2016 2:15:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

Both are not forensic experts but historians who cannot visit or recreate the past. We are back to conjectures and speculation about the resurrection.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Michael Shermer was a fundamentalist Christian who taught theology before he turned skeptic and is the founder of Skeptic Magazine. Conversions have taken place on both sides of the aisle.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
Jesus achieved very little when he was alive. His ministry lasted only 3 years before he was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. His resurrection period was even shorter. He stuck around for just 40 days. What could he do in 40 days that he could not do in 30 years?
Tbe rich man who offered the tomb for Jesus's burial was a Jew. He just wanted it back after the ceremony was over. Jews are not known for giving up land not even land that doesn't belong to them. It's called settlements.

The question the authors should have answered was why God allowed Jesus to be put to death if He wanted him to be alive. Jesus Fulfilling the prophesy never worked. The Jews still reject Jesus as their messiah or even as their dead messiah.

The Gentiles love the idea a dead Jewish rabbi is paying for their sins in perpetuity. Hitler revived the idea to save the rest of Europe.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,328
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3/27/2016 2:29:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 2:15:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

Both are not forensic experts but historians who cannot visit or recreate the past. We are back to conjectures and speculation about the resurrection.

You mean eliminating false assumptions....

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

That was completely irrelevant and silly, the nature of the spirit violates scientific understanding from the start, which you have no conception of.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Highly motivated by hate, luxury and greed in the afterlife. Not motivated by an honest conversion and personal witness. They are programmed like robots at young ages, this is not even in the same arena.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

No, Paul did not have temporal lobe epilepsy lol, he had one spiritual encounter. Spiritual encounters are not hallucinations, just ask you Hindu gurus....


3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Michael Shermer was a fundamentalist Christian who taught theology before he turned skeptic and is the founder of Skeptic Magazine. Conversions have taken place on both sides of the aisle.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
Jesus achieved very little when he was alive. His ministry lasted only 3 years before he was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. His resurrection period was even shorter. He stuck around for just 40 days. What could he do in 40 days that he could not do in 30 years?

Jesus achieved more than most men period, His legacy, popularity and genius is enough to keep us busy for the rest of our lives on DDO lol, get a life sir.

Tbe rich man who offered the tomb for Jesus's burial was a Jew. He just wanted it back after the ceremony was over. Jews are not known for giving up land not even land that doesn't belong to them. It's called settlements.

The question the authors should have answered was why God allowed Jesus to be put to death if He wanted him to be alive. Jesus Fulfilling the prophesy never worked. The Jews still reject Jesus as their messiah or even as their dead messiah.

The prophesy worked fine, the sacrifice works for whoever receives it and abides in it, what are you talking about? No one cares what the Jews rejected, that is irrelevant.

The Gentiles love the idea a dead Jewish rabbi is paying for their sins in perpetuity. Hitler revived the idea to save the rest of Europe.

You mean love the idea God provided an avenue for repentance, redemption and spiritual transformation?? yes these are wonderful tools.
DanneJeRusse
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3/27/2016 3:00:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 2:29:28 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/27/2016 2:15:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

That was completely irrelevant and silly,

So, the consequences of death are irrelevant and silly?

the nature of the spirit violates scientific understanding from the start, which you have no conception of.

There you go again, accusing others of not having some special knowledge you alone possess, yet you have never shown this "nature of the spirit" to be anything other than nothing at all. You do realize this makes you look a childish fool,


Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Highly motivated by hate, luxury and greed in the afterlife. Not motivated by an honest conversion and personal witness. They are programmed like robots at young ages, this is not even in the same arena.

Just like you were programmed at a young age.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

No, Paul did not have temporal lobe epilepsy lol, he had one spiritual encounter. Spiritual encounters are not hallucinations, just ask you Hindu gurus....

Yet, we can clearly see from your posts "Spiritual encounters" are little more than hallucinations.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
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3/27/2016 3:18:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 2:29:28 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/27/2016 2:15:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

Both are not forensic experts but historians who cannot visit or recreate the past. We are back to conjectures and speculation about the resurrection.

You mean eliminating false assumptions....

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

That was completely irrelevant and silly, the nature of the spirit violates scientific understanding from the start, which you have no conception of.

Even the Church is modifying its stance on the virgin birth, miracles and the resurrection. Anglican bishops are no longer reguired to believe they are true.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Highly motivated by hate, luxury and greed in the afterlife. Not motivated by an honest conversion and personal witness. They are programmed like robots at young ages, this is not even in the same arena.

Peter was a pathetic liar. Judas betrayed Jesus. Paul persecuted early Christians.jesus was determined to destroy the traditional family. John the Baptist questioned Jesus's claims he was the Heisenberg one. What an odd bunch of Muslims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

No, Paul did not have temporal lobe epilepsy lol, he had one spiritual encounter. Spiritual encounters are not hallucinations, just ask you Hindu gurus....

Paul say he saw a vision and was blinded by the bright light. That's hallucination!!!


3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Michael Shermer was a fundamentalist Christian who taught theology before he turned skeptic and is the founder of Skeptic Magazine. Conversions have taken place on both sides of the aisle.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
Jesus achieved very little when he was alive. His ministry lasted only 3 years before he was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. His resurrection period was even shorter. He stuck around for just 40 days. What could he do in 40 days that he could not do in 30 years?

Jesus achieved more than most men period, His legacy, popularity and genius is enough to keep us busy for the rest of our lives on DDO lol, get a life sir.

Not a single handiwork of Jesus remains. Jesus couldn't write, he never built anything even though he was a carpenters son. He left no children behind because he was gay (Secret Mark). The rich man even vacated his tomb after the burial ceremony was over.
None of the skills Jesus had were transferable and no one bothered to learn it.
All we are left with is hearsay. The same rubbish that Jesus spread that got him and his disciples killed.

Tbe rich man who offered the tomb for Jesus's burial was a Jew. He just wanted it back after the ceremony was over. Jews are not known for giving up land not even land that doesn't belong to them. It's called settlements.

The question the authors should have answered was why God allowed Jesus to be put to death if He wanted him to be alive. Jesus Fulfilling the prophesy never worked. The Jews still reject Jesus as their messiah or even as their dead messiah.

The prophesy worked fine, the sacrifice works for whoever receives it and abides in it, what are you talking about? No one cares what the Jews rejected, that is irrelevant.

The Jews were Jesus's contemporaries. If they could not bring themselves to believe a blasphemous liar and a lunatic. How does that add to his credibility? They knew him best who heard him firsthand. And the crowd shouted: Crucify him! Crucify him!

The Gentiles love the idea a dead Jewish rabbi is paying for their sins in perpetuity. Hitler revived the idea to save the rest of Europe.

You mean love the idea God provided an avenue for repentance, redemption and spiritual transformation?? yes these are wonderful tools.
The only thing the west is willing to accept of a Jew is his sacrifice for the atonement of their sins. The Romans built a religion on this very though and the Gentiles hold that jew to his promise made 2000 year ago under extreme duress and pain. They carry his dead corpse nailed to a cross as a reminder to all why he was crucified.
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 5:30:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:09:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Hearsay from unreliable sources. Martyrs have been willing to die for all kinds of weird (and untrue) beliefs through the ages.

How did you establish these source are unreliable? do you think the sources that mention Spartacus are unreliable too?


2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

It could have been anything. Paul's Jesus was a heavenly being, not human.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Again what are you using to measure "reliability" here? The documents refer to many things which are established as factual, Herod the Great for example.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

Hearsay from unreliable sources.

Yawnnn.


This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

It's almost universally agreed that it was a poorly researched book. He basically ignored the arguments of mythicists. His scholarly consensus is also unverifiable:

http://www.patheos.com...

http://www.patheos.com...

Not only that but he reversed his own earlier firm position on this issue. He even did a debate with WLC where he argued strongly against the resurrection.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

After years of studying, I finally came to the conclusion that everything I had previously thought about the historical evidence of the resurrection was absolutely wrong.

Well Lawrence Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing" has also been widely criticized, and it has a rating of 3.91 on goodreads.com whereas "The Case for the resurrection of Jesus" is rated 4.35.

Harry.
DanneJeRusse
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3/27/2016 5:35:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 5:30:11 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:

Well Lawrence Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing" has also been widely criticized, and it has a rating of 3.91 on goodreads.com whereas "The Case for the resurrection of Jesus" is rated 4.35.

Harry.

Perhaps Harry, that might show there are more folks who like reading about Jesus more then they do about science, kind of like the vast majority of Christians here.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Dirty.Harry
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3/27/2016 6:08:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 5:35:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/27/2016 5:30:11 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:

Well Lawrence Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing" has also been widely criticized, and it has a rating of 3.91 on goodreads.com whereas "The Case for the resurrection of Jesus" is rated 4.35.

Harry.

Perhaps Harry, that might show there are more folks who like reading about Jesus more then they do about science, kind of like the vast majority of Christians here.

Or it might show that many books receive negative reviews and have their detractors irrespective of subject matter.
DanneJeRusse
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3/27/2016 6:16:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 6:08:51 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 3/27/2016 5:35:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/27/2016 5:30:11 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:

Well Lawrence Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing" has also been widely criticized, and it has a rating of 3.91 on goodreads.com whereas "The Case for the resurrection of Jesus" is rated 4.35.

Harry.

Perhaps Harry, that might show there are more folks who like reading about Jesus more then they do about science, kind of like the vast majority of Christians here.

Or it might show that many books receive negative reviews and have their detractors irrespective of subject matter.

That's not what I see in the reviews, many there state the book goes over their heads, while those who understand it give it great reviews. I would suspect you are part of the former.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
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3/28/2016 7:32:50 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 5:36:52 AM, Axonly wrote:
A lot of intelligent people are debating on this post, very good to see!

Is that your excuse for staying out?
tarantula
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3/28/2016 7:41:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

None of that is evidence even if it was reported correctly. The gospels were written a long time after Jesus died, so exaggeration and wishful thinking were likely to have played a great part in the writing of the texts.
Geogeer
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3/28/2016 8:54:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 12:29:29 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

The lazy man's version:



Funny that nobody is actually rebutting Habermas' minimal facts argument.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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3/28/2016 11:20:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

Interesting!
Meh!
Harikrish
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3/28/2016 11:32:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 8:54:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/27/2016 12:29:29 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

The lazy man's version:



Funny that nobody is actually rebutting Habermas' minimal facts argument.

You must have missed my post # 13

Reposted here:

At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

Both are not forensic experts but historians who cannot visit or recreate the past. We are back to conjectures and speculation about the resurrection.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Michael Shermer was a fundamentalist Christian who taught theology before he turned skeptic and is the founder of Skeptic Magazine. Conversions have taken place on both sides of the aisle.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
Jesus achieved very little when he was alive. His ministry lasted only 3 years before he was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. His resurrection period was even shorter. He stuck around for just 40 days. What could he do in 40 days that he could not do in 30 years?
The rich man who offered the tomb for Jesus's burial was a Jew. He just wanted it back after the ceremony was over. Jews are not known for giving up land not even land that doesn't belong to them. It's called settlements.

The question the authors should have answered was why God allowed Jesus to be put to death if He wanted him to be alive. Jesus Fulfilling the prophesy never worked. The Jews still reject Jesus as their messiah or even as their dead messiah.

The Gentiles love the idea a dead Jewish rabbi is paying for their sins in perpetuity. Hitler revived the idea to save the rest of Europe.
Geogeer
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3/28/2016 11:34:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 11:32:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 8:54:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/27/2016 12:29:29 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.

The lazy man's version:



Funny that nobody is actually rebutting Habermas' minimal facts argument.

You must have missed my post # 13

Reposted here:


At 3/27/2016 1:42:01 AM, EddieKramer wrote:
Hi, and thank you for reading.

I recently finished reading the book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus written by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona. It was a great read and I would highly recommend it for anybody interested in this topic. What I wanted to do was share some evidences for Jesus' resurrection as laid out in the book. Hopefully this will be informative and helpful to some.

Both are not forensic experts but historians who cannot visit or recreate the past. We are back to conjectures and speculation about the resurrection.

In writing the book, the authors use a minimal facts approach. On page 44 they define what is meant by that: "This approach considers only those data that are so strongly attested historically that they are granted by nearly every scholar who studies the subject, even the rather skeptical ones." [italics are original] With this in mind I will now present four of the evidences that are given in this book.

At the very minimum. Resurrection is a scientific impossibility and would violate everything we know about life and death.

1) Jesus' disciples sincerely believed Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to them. The disciples proved this by their willingness to suffer and die for this claim. It is hard to imagine their willingness to suffer so much and suffer martyrdom over something they had knowingly made up. We also have seven ancient sources that attest to their willingness to suffer and to die for their claims.

Islamic martyrs are highly motivated. They would build a better case for the resurrection of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

2) The conversion of the church persecutor Paul. Paul hated the Christians and did all he could to persecute and destroy this new movement. One has to ask the question of what evidences would cause him to change on this to the point that he actually embraced the Christian message and was willing to suffer for and to die for this message as well.

Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy which was mentioned in the Bible. His condition is subject to hallucinations and extreme mood swings. We have perverts , adulterers and pedophiles who are drawn to the pulpit.

3) The conversion of the skeptic James. James was a skeptic that turned into a believer that was willing to and did die for this message. Once again one has to ask what evidences would change his view point.

Michael Shermer was a fundamentalist Christian who taught theology before he turned skeptic and is the founder of Skeptic Magazine. Conversions have taken place on both sides of the aisle.

4) The empty tomb. There was never a body that was displayed by the enemies of the Christians and anyone that wanted to could go and see for themselves that the tomb was empty.

This is just a small taste of what the book has to offer. It really goes into a lot more depth. I just wanted to throw out a small sampling of evidences for Jesus' resurrection. Like I said before I highly suggest the book for those who are interested. And once again, thank you reading this post.
Jesus achieved very little when he was alive. His ministry lasted only 3 years before he was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. His resurrection period was even shorter. He stuck around for just 40 days. What could he do in 40 days that he could not do in 30 years?
The rich man who offered the tomb for Jesus's burial was a Jew. He just wanted it back after the ceremony was over. Jews are not known for giving up land not even land that doesn't belong to them. It's called settlements.

The question the authors should have answered was why God allowed Jesus to be put to death if He wanted him to be alive. Jesus Fulfilling the prophesy never worked. The Jews still reject Jesus as their messiah or even as their dead messiah.

The Gentiles love the idea a dead Jewish rabbi is paying for their sins in perpetuity. Hitler revived the idea to save the rest of Europe.

I did read that, it doesn't actually address Habermas' argument. I posted a video here in which he himself presents his argument.