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'Sin'

tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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3/28/2016 2:48:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
Sin is a word used to control the bewildered.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/28/2016 2:49:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:48:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
Sin is a word used to control the bewildered.

I think you are right.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/28/2016 3:12:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
It took 200000 years for humans to form well developed Societies and these rules and law were made for the Society . This is what separates us from other life forms .
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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3/28/2016 3:32:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Sin is an imaginary disease created by religion so that people will buy the cure with their submission to those who created it. It's the ultimate example of the term 'snake oil salesman'.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/28/2016 3:44:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 3:12:07 PM, Pandit wrote:
It took 200000 years for humans to form well developed Societies and these rules and law were made for the Society . This is what separates us from other life forms .

You forget bad Karma kept many back and it will take many more life cycles for them to catch up before they can transcend their primordial perverted desires.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/28/2016 3:44:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Sin is a made up concept that keep people weak through manipulation via guilt. Weak, guilty people believe they need some authority to tell them they are OK, leaving them dependent and vulnerable to control.

Other than conducting yourself with love and kindness, there is no "sin".
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/28/2016 3:50:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Honouring your husbands would reduce the frequency of the other sins in women.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/28/2016 4:36:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 3:44:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:12:07 PM, Pandit wrote:
It took 200000 years for humans to form well developed Societies and these rules and law were made for the Society . This is what separates us from other life forms .

You forget bad Karma kept many back and it will take many more life cycles for them to catch up before they can transcend their primordial perverted desires.

May be !

For me Reincarnation is Evolution of Life forms from Lower and Simpler levels to higher and more complex levels .
tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/28/2016 4:43:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 3:50:52 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Honouring your husbands would reduce the frequency of the other sins in women.

You are joking, I hope?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/28/2016 4:45:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 4:36:14 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:44:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:12:07 PM, Pandit wrote:
It took 200000 years for humans to form well developed Societies and these rules and law were made for the Society . This is what separates us from other life forms .

You forget bad Karma kept many back and it will take many more life cycles for them to catch up before they can transcend their primordial perverted desires.

May be !

For me Reincarnation is Evolution of Life forms from Lower and Simpler levels to higher and more complex levels .

That too will take many evolutionary cycles if your ancestors started out as monkeys. Darwin had evidence most Europeans followed that lineage.
Darwin wrote in The Descent of Man: "The Simiadae then branched off into two great stems, the New World and Old World monkeys; and from the latter, at a remote period, Man, the wonder and glory of the Universe, proceeded
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/28/2016 4:48:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 4:43:16 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:50:52 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Honouring your husbands would reduce the frequency of the other sins in women.

You are joking, I hope?

Compromise!!! Honouring your husbands would reduce the frequency of the other sins in women and some sins in men as well.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/28/2016 4:48:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 4:45:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 4:36:14 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:44:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2016 3:12:07 PM, Pandit wrote:
It took 200000 years for humans to form well developed Societies and these rules and law were made for the Society . This is what separates us from other life forms .

You forget bad Karma kept many back and it will take many more life cycles for them to catch up before they can transcend their primordial perverted desires.

May be !

For me Reincarnation is Evolution of Life forms from Lower and Simpler levels to higher and more complex levels .

That too will take many evolutionary cycles if your ancestors started out as monkeys. Darwin had evidence most Europeans followed that lineage.
Darwin wrote in The Descent of Man: "The Simiadae then branched off into two great stems, the New World and Old World monkeys; and from the latter, at a remote period, Man, the wonder and glory of the Universe, proceeded

And that's the Goal of Life . To evolve and keep living rather than to devolve & Stagnate and eventually die . Only the Right Souls get to transcend to Higher lokas where they are born as Demi Gods .
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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3/28/2016 5:39:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

So, you call everyone who disagrees with you indecent. That's not very tolerant of you.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/28/2016 5:45:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 5:39:18 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

So, you call everyone who disagrees with you indecent. That's not very tolerant of you.

It started with not honouring her husband.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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3/28/2016 5:53:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

Sure, can you explain why for any of them now?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/28/2016 6:04:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 5:53:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

Sure, can you explain why for any of them now?

First, without the reality of an interventionist god ready to smite you for some arbitrary transgression, perception of morality changes.

Second, if someone does something that hurts only themselves, that is not a morality issue. Someone that is obese, for example, does not deserve judgement through "justice".

The rules of morality can be summed up with empower others with love and kindness and do not hurt others. None of those sexual "sins" violate those rules. Homosexuality does not have anything to do with you unless you are engaging in it. People need to mind their own business. If you don't like it, then don't do it.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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3/28/2016 6:49:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 6:04:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:53:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

Sure, can you explain why for any of them now?

First, without the reality of an interventionist god ready to smite you for some arbitrary transgression, perception of morality changes.

None of a Tri-omni God's precepts would be arbitrary, but would in fact be just the very opposite of arbitrary. God creates with purpose, it is the very violation of that purpose that is sin.

Morality changes, because morality becomes completely subjective and thus is a mere preference created in your mind - which is really no morality at all, but mere social convention. So there is no moral difference slavers and non slavers, just really social custom.

Second, if someone does something that hurts only themselves, that is not a morality issue. Someone that is obese, for example, does not deserve judgement through "justice".

Sin required the existence of a deity, as sin is an action contrary to the will of that deity and the purpose for which you were created. Human justice is not the pinnacle of "justice" but rather a system implemented to prevent large scale abuses of society by a small minority of the populace.

To use your example, let's say I only made one other person obesely fat. The net consequences of my actions are one person who will on average live a shorter less, healthy and less capable life. The same as if I did it to myself. Both are immoral because both have been intentionally detrimental to the healthy functioning of a human body and an abuse against the gift of life that has been given.

Both are morally wrong, but we prosecute one and leave the other to be dealt with between you and God.

The rules of morality can be summed up with empower others with love and kindness and do not hurt others. None of those sexual "sins" violate those rules. Homosexuality does not have anything to do with you unless you are engaging in it. People need to mind their own business. If you don't like it, then don't do it.

Every single sexual sin violates those rules. Sex has 2 natural purposes - procreation and bonding of the couple. Intentionally partaking of sexual intimacy that directly violates either of those is harming the nature of the the couple.

So let's look at each one:

homosexuality: not oriented to procreation, and an abuse of the sexual faculties as you are merely using the other person's body for pleasure. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship: once again you are engaging in the reproductive act without ensuring that the offspring of such an act are provided for because you have not committed to each other to do so. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

masturbation: an act of self abuse that creates an imaginary person (or reduces a real person to a lump of imaginary flesh) to use solely for the purposes of self pleasure. This violates both of the purposes of the sexual faculties and as such is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

If you don't like it don't do it - is a pathetic argument for morality. That is the ultimate in relativistic thinking and reveals no depth of moral philosophy present.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/28/2016 8:18:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 6:49:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 6:04:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:53:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

Sure, can you explain why for any of them now?

First, without the reality of an interventionist god ready to smite you for some arbitrary transgression, perception of morality changes.

None of a Tri-omni God's precepts would be arbitrary, but would in fact be just the very opposite of arbitrary. God creates with purpose, it is the very violation of that purpose that is sin.

Many religions have different ideas of morality. Some involve things like not permitting women to drive a car. Each has their justifications as to why their god doesn't like it. Your opinions are just more opinions in a sea of opinions.

Morality changes, because morality becomes completely subjective and thus is a mere preference created in your mind - which is really no morality at all, but mere social convention. So there is no moral difference slavers and non slavers, just really social custom.

If someone treats others with kindness and love in all cases, do you really think he has no morality at all if he thinks sex outside of marriage is good? I don't understand this obsession with what people do behind their bedroom doors.


Second, if someone does something that hurts only themselves, that is not a morality issue. Someone that is obese, for example, does not deserve judgement through "justice".

Sin required the existence of a deity, as sin is an action contrary to the will of that deity and the purpose for which you were created. Human justice is not the pinnacle of "justice" but rather a system implemented to prevent large scale abuses of society by a small minority of the populace.

To use your example, let's say I only made one other person obesely fat. The net consequences of my actions are one person who will on average live a shorter less, healthy and less capable life. The same as if I did it to myself. Both are immoral because both have been intentionally detrimental to the healthy functioning of a human body and an abuse against the gift of life that has been given.

According to recent studies, religious people tend to be more obese. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.... Maybe I need to tell them they are sinners. I am physically fit and eat healthy so maybe you might agree I am in a position to judge them.

Both are morally wrong, but we prosecute one and leave the other to be dealt with between you and God.

The rules of morality can be summed up with empower others with love and kindness and do not hurt others. None of those sexual "sins" violate those rules. Homosexuality does not have anything to do with you unless you are engaging in it. People need to mind their own business. If you don't like it, then don't do it.

Every single sexual sin violates those rules. Sex has 2 natural purposes - procreation and bonding of the couple. Intentionally partaking of sexual intimacy that directly violates either of those is harming the nature of the the couple.

That is your opinion and I don't agree.

So let's look at each one:

homosexuality: not oriented to procreation, and an abuse of the sexual faculties as you are merely using the other person's body for pleasure. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship: once again you are engaging in the reproductive act without ensuring that the offspring of such an act are provided for because you have not committed to each other to do so. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

masturbation: an act of self abuse that creates an imaginary person (or reduces a real person to a lump of imaginary flesh) to use solely for the purposes of self pleasure. This violates both of the purposes of the sexual faculties and as such is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

I don't agree with any of that.

If you don't like it don't do it - is a pathetic argument for morality. That is the ultimate in relativistic thinking and reveals no depth of moral philosophy present.

What would you think if Muslim's wanted you to live under Sharia law? They have their long list of reasons why they are right. That is how non-religious people feel when Christians try to control aspects of their personal lives that don't have anything to do with your personal choices.

Do Muslims have the right to subject you to Sharia law?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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3/28/2016 8:39:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 8:18:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 6:49:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 6:04:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:53:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:50:31 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 5:45:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

Those all sound like sins to me. Think on it a bit more, maybe it'll come to you.

I used to be a Christian. Thinking is what caused me to conclude they weren't sins.

Sure, can you explain why for any of them now?

First, without the reality of an interventionist god ready to smite you for some arbitrary transgression, perception of morality changes.

None of a Tri-omni God's precepts would be arbitrary, but would in fact be just the very opposite of arbitrary. God creates with purpose, it is the very violation of that purpose that is sin.

Many religions have different ideas of morality. Some involve things like not permitting women to drive a car. Each has their justifications as to why their god doesn't like it. Your opinions are just more opinions in a sea of opinions.

I'd be more than happy to debate the nature of God to show why the Christian notion of God is correct.

Morality changes, because morality becomes completely subjective and thus is a mere preference created in your mind - which is really no morality at all, but mere social convention. So there is no moral difference slavers and non slavers, just really social custom.

If someone treats others with kindness and love in all cases, do you really think he has no morality at all if he thinks sex outside of marriage is good? I don't understand this obsession with what people do behind their bedroom doors.

Define what you mean by kindness and love. I consider that using the other person's body to get your rocks off without respecting the nature of act that you are engaging in is neither kind nor loving as you have put yourself before them. Then we can look at the effects on marriage rates, divorce rates, abortion rates, etc. to see the devastation to society that this attitude is causing.

Second, if someone does something that hurts only themselves, that is not a morality issue. Someone that is obese, for example, does not deserve judgement through "justice".

Sin required the existence of a deity, as sin is an action contrary to the will of that deity and the purpose for which you were created. Human justice is not the pinnacle of "justice" but rather a system implemented to prevent large scale abuses of society by a small minority of the populace.

To use your example, let's say I only made one other person obesely fat. The net consequences of my actions are one person who will on average live a shorter less, healthy and less capable life. The same as if I did it to myself. Both are immoral because both have been intentionally detrimental to the healthy functioning of a human body and an abuse against the gift of life that has been given.

According to recent studies, religious people tend to be more obese. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.... Maybe I need to tell them they are sinners. I am physically fit and eat healthy so maybe you might agree I am in a position to judge them.

Gluttony is a sin. So is pride. Are they gluttonous or are there other factors contributing to their obesity (hormonal, sacrificial nature of giving to others instead of focusing on self). Is it vanity or humility by which you keep yourself in shape? Similar ends do not equate moral action in achieving them.

Both are morally wrong, but we prosecute one and leave the other to be dealt with between you and God.

The rules of morality can be summed up with empower others with love and kindness and do not hurt others. None of those sexual "sins" violate those rules. Homosexuality does not have anything to do with you unless you are engaging in it. People need to mind their own business. If you don't like it, then don't do it.

Every single sexual sin violates those rules. Sex has 2 natural purposes - procreation and bonding of the couple. Intentionally partaking of sexual intimacy that directly violates either of those is harming the nature of the the couple.

That is your opinion and I don't agree.

Really? Those are both scientifically and sociologically verifiable. To think that an orgasm developed or was created (evolution or God) for any other purpose than sexual reproduction is ridiculous to assert. Additionally, the emotional attachment of people to each other after engaging in sex is greater than before. Both of these can be shown.

It isn't random gobbledy-gook, but observable elements of natural law.

So let's look at each one:

homosexuality: not oriented to procreation, and an abuse of the sexual faculties as you are merely using the other person's body for pleasure. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship: once again you are engaging in the reproductive act without ensuring that the offspring of such an act are provided for because you have not committed to each other to do so. As such the participants are using each other and thus it is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

masturbation: an act of self abuse that creates an imaginary person (or reduces a real person to a lump of imaginary flesh) to use solely for the purposes of self pleasure. This violates both of the purposes of the sexual faculties and as such is not an act of love and kindness, but one of selfishness.

I don't agree with any of that.

Witty retort.

If you don't like it don't do it - is a pathetic argument for morality. That is the ultimate in relativistic thinking and reveals no depth of moral philosophy present.

What would you think if Muslim's wanted you to live under Sharia law? They have their long list of reasons why they are right. That is how non-religious people feel when Christians try to control aspects of their personal lives that don't have anything to do with your personal choices.

We are talking about sin. Please stay on topic.

Do Muslims have the right to subject you to Sharia law?

That would depend on whether Sharia Law is truly the Law of God. Given that it has been the Christian intellectual history that has enabled the western world to develop a strong concept of natural law and natural rights, end slavery, etc. I would be more than happy to debate the topic.

Just because there are competing versions of the concept of God, does not by inference mean that all of them are wrong.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/28/2016 10:32:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 8:39:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 8:18:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:

If you don't like it don't do it - is a pathetic argument for morality. That is the ultimate in relativistic thinking and reveals no depth of moral philosophy present.

What would you think if Muslim's wanted you to live under Sharia law? They have their long list of reasons why they are right. That is how non-religious people feel when Christians try to control aspects of their personal lives that don't have anything to do with your personal choices.

We are talking about sin. Please stay on topic.

Do Muslims have the right to subject you to Sharia law?

That would depend on whether Sharia Law is truly the Law of God. Given that it has been the Christian intellectual history that has enabled the western world to develop a strong concept of natural law and natural rights, end slavery, etc. I would be more than happy to debate the topic.

Just because there are competing versions of the concept of God, does not by inference mean that all of them are wrong.

The rules and opinions of Christianity are as credible to me as the rules and opinions of Mormonism, Scientology or Islam. A Mormon can tell me all they want WHY I should wear Mormon underwear but I'm still not going to.

"The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion."
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
-- Albert Einstein

I share Paine and Einstein's opinion so there is no need for me to continue to debate the laws of a silly, unsubstantiated religion.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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3/28/2016 10:38:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 10:32:17 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/28/2016 8:39:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/28/2016 8:18:22 PM, matt8800 wrote:

If you don't like it don't do it - is a pathetic argument for morality. That is the ultimate in relativistic thinking and reveals no depth of moral philosophy present.

What would you think if Muslim's wanted you to live under Sharia law? They have their long list of reasons why they are right. That is how non-religious people feel when Christians try to control aspects of their personal lives that don't have anything to do with your personal choices.

We are talking about sin. Please stay on topic.

Do Muslims have the right to subject you to Sharia law?

That would depend on whether Sharia Law is truly the Law of God. Given that it has been the Christian intellectual history that has enabled the western world to develop a strong concept of natural law and natural rights, end slavery, etc. I would be more than happy to debate the topic.

Just because there are competing versions of the concept of God, does not by inference mean that all of them are wrong.

The rules and opinions of Christianity are as credible to me as the rules and opinions of Mormonism, Scientology or Islam. A Mormon can tell me all they want WHY I should wear Mormon underwear but I'm still not going to.

Then why are you bothering to discuss sin in a forum?

"The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion."
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

Fair enough. Why should I listen to Thomas Paine's opinion.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
-- Albert Einstein

Einstein's knowledge and insight into physics makes him an expert on this how?

I share Paine and Einstein's opinion so there is no need for me to continue to debate the laws of a silly, unsubstantiated religion.

Funny, I merely engaged the use of Natural Law in refuting you. I never even delved into any theology.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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3/28/2016 11:45:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:48:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.
Sin is a word used to control the bewildered.

Well, crude way of putting it, but I get what you mean
Meh!
newnature
Posts: 150
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3/29/2016 12:11:22 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Christianity developed the notion of original sin.

So extreme are the psalmist"s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it"s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it"s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.
tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/29/2016 1:30:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 12:11:22 AM, newnature wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Christianity developed the notion of original sin.

So extreme are the psalmist"s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it"s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it"s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.



Which the wicked sky fairy is supposed to have created!
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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3/29/2016 1:37:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/28/2016 3:32:02 PM, dhardage wrote:
Sin is an imaginary disease created by religion so that people will buy the cure with their submission to those who created it. It's the ultimate example of the term 'snake oil salesman'.

False analogy.

At least with snakeoil salesmen you actually get some snake oil.
newnature
Posts: 150
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3/29/2016 2:30:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 1:30:20 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 3/29/2016 12:11:22 AM, newnature wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Christianity developed the notion of original sin.

So extreme are the psalmist"s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it"s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it"s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.



Which the wicked sky fairy is supposed to have created!

You really lack understanding about this subject matter.
tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/29/2016 3:04:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/29/2016 2:30:53 PM, newnature wrote:
At 3/29/2016 1:30:20 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 3/29/2016 12:11:22 AM, newnature wrote:
At 3/28/2016 2:40:30 PM, tarantula wrote:
The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation, women being equal to men in all respects and much, much more.

I will put into practise some of the ten commandments like not stealing, lying, murdering or being jealous of others, but the rest are unreasonable, in my opinion.

Christianity developed the notion of original sin.

So extreme are the psalmist"s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it"s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it"s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.



Which the wicked sky fairy is supposed to have created!

You really lack understanding about this subject matter.

And you understand it? There is no evidence to support the Biblical references to god or Jesus as having any veracity.