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Evidence for religion?

tropicalstorm12
Posts: 2
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3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I am 20 years old and I am attending a community college so I live at home. My father is one of the most religious Christians I have ever met, any time you say Jesus Christ if water spills on the floor, he will say IS LORD to correct you for using the lords name in vein. I always get into arguments because I come from a logical stand point and I am scientifically literate and so is my father he is a software engineer so he is very good at mathematics and yet he seems to insist that Jesus is real. I always want to know why smart people are religious. So I asked him and he started telling me about how the Christian bible is the only bible that correctly predicts future events that only god could know were going to happen in the future. This is called bible prophecy. I asked him why out of the estimated 4200 other religions Christianity was so important and he said that "over a third of the bible consists of prophecy and no other book can make that claim." One reason he gave for why he feels so strongly about this, is this specific statement in the bible written in Isaiah 4-:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." The reason why this statement is so important to my dad is because it was written in 8th century BC 200 years before any evidence was ever uncovered about earths form and it says "circle of the earth". SO my dad says how could they have possibly known that earth was a circle that long ago and I say well they used to think the earth was flat so maybe it was a flat circle that he was describing and my dad goes on to say that the way Isaiah was describing it in the passage was a 3d visual meaning that he was describing god sitting above the earth and the heavens opening out like a curtain and my dad thinks this is the expansion of the universe.

I argued with him for hours the other night about this and he also insists that this is just 1 of the prophecies there are many others that have happened like Israel becoming a nation is another big one. I am of the mindset that all humans are energy and so are animals and so are plants and so are bacteria and so are stars and galaxys so why do we have to have a religion? What do you think of this? Is Jesus actually real? I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/30/2016 1:30:03 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM, tropicalstorm12 wrote:
I am 20 years old and I am attending a community college so I live at home. My father is one of the most religious Christians I have ever met, any time you say Jesus Christ if water spills on the floor, he will say IS LORD to correct you for using the lords name in vein. I always get into arguments because I come from a logical stand point and I am scientifically literate and so is my father he is a software engineer so he is very good at mathematics and yet he seems to insist that Jesus is real. I always want to know why smart people are religious. So I asked him and he started telling me about how the Christian bible is the only bible that correctly predicts future events that only god could know were going to happen in the future. This is called bible prophecy. I asked him why out of the estimated 4200 other religions Christianity was so important and he said that "over a third of the bible consists of prophecy and no other book can make that claim." One reason he gave for why he feels so strongly about this, is this specific statement in the bible written in Isaiah 4-:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." The reason why this statement is so important to my dad is because it was written in 8th century BC 200 years before any evidence was ever uncovered about earths form and it says "circle of the earth". SO my dad says how could they have possibly known that earth was a circle that long ago and I say well they used to think the earth was flat so maybe it was a flat circle that he was describing and my dad goes on to say that the way Isaiah was describing it in the passage was a 3d visual meaning that he was describing god sitting above the earth and the heavens opening out like a curtain and my dad thinks this is the expansion of the universe.

I argued with him for hours the other night about this and he also insists that this is just 1 of the prophecies there are many others that have happened like Israel becoming a nation is another big one. I am of the mindset that all humans are energy and so are animals and so are plants and so are bacteria and so are stars and galaxys so why do we have to have a religion? What do you think of this? Is Jesus actually real? I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.

I highly recommend you read Thomas Paine's Age of Reason. He picks apart the bible piece by piece until nothing is left. Its a brilliant book.

You can get it here - http://www.deism.com...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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3/30/2016 1:42:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM, tropicalstorm12 wrote:

I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.

I don't believe out of fear - but I stand almost alone as a gnostic Christian; I believe because my soul needed redemption and when I put my faith in Christ, (not Christ as a sacrifice - but Christ as the person he was while he walked the earth and came in contact with people, and I pictured myself as if I was repenting in front of this human Jesus) a huge burden WAS lifted off my conscience and I was able to love more completely than I had been prior to my redemptive spiritual experience.

Thanks for the Isaiah reference - I'm arguing on another board about the earth being round they are arguing the flat earth for religious reasons, and I seldom read the OT.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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3/30/2016 1:45:19 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM, tropicalstorm12 wrote:
I am 20 years old and I am attending a community college so I live at home. My father is one of the most religious Christians I have ever met, any time you say Jesus Christ if water spills on the floor, he will say IS LORD to correct you for using the lords name in vein. I always get into arguments because I come from a logical stand point and I am scientifically literate and so is my father he is a software engineer so he is very good at mathematics and yet he seems to insist that Jesus is real. I always want to know why smart people are religious. So I asked him and he started telling me about how the Christian bible is the only bible that correctly predicts future events that only god could know were going to happen in the future. This is called bible prophecy. I asked him why out of the estimated 4200 other religions Christianity was so important and he said that "over a third of the bible consists of prophecy and no other book can make that claim." One reason he gave for why he feels so strongly about this, is this specific statement in the bible written in Isaiah 4-:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." The reason why this statement is so important to my dad is because it was written in 8th century BC 200 years before any evidence was ever uncovered about earths form and it says "circle of the earth". SO my dad says how could they have possibly known that earth was a circle that long ago and I say well they used to think the earth was flat so maybe it was a flat circle that he was describing and my dad goes on to say that the way Isaiah was describing it in the passage was a 3d visual meaning that he was describing god sitting above the earth and the heavens opening out like a curtain and my dad thinks this is the expansion of the universe.

I argued with him for hours the other night about this and he also insists that this is just 1 of the prophecies there are many others that have happened like Israel becoming a nation is another big one. I am of the mindset that all humans are energy and so are animals and so are plants and so are bacteria and so are stars and galaxys so why do we have to have a religion? What do you think of this? Is Jesus actually real? I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.

If they thought the Earth was a flat circle, why did they say the 4 corners of the earth?
random_noob
Posts: 21
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3/30/2016 2:08:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
My 2 cents.

If someone is drinking wine and eating bread, and he thinks that he 's eating the flesh and blood of a dead person, don't argue with them. There is no possible way you can change their mind.
kperry
Posts: 19
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3/30/2016 2:15:53 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
: At 3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM, tropicalstorm12 wrote:
I am 20 years old and I am attending a community college so I live at home. My father is one of the most religious Christians I have ever met, any time you say Jesus Christ if water spills on the floor, he will say IS LORD to correct you for using the lords name in vein. I always get into arguments because I come from a logical stand point and I am scientifically literate and so is my father he is a software engineer so he is very good at mathematics and yet he seems to insist that Jesus is real. I always want to know why smart people are religious. So I asked him and he started telling me about how the Christian bible is the only bible that correctly predicts future events that only god could know were going to happen in the future. This is called bible prophecy. I asked him why out of the estimated 4200 other religions Christianity was so important and he said that "over a third of the bible consists of prophecy and no other book can make that claim." One reason he gave for why he feels so strongly about this, is this specific statement in the bible written in Isaiah 4-:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." The reason why this statement is so important to my dad is because it was written in 8th century BC 200 years before any evidence was ever uncovered about earths form and it says "circle of the earth". SO my dad says how could they have possibly known that earth was a circle that long ago and I say well they used to think the earth was flat so maybe it was a flat circle that he was describing and my dad goes on to say that the way Isaiah was describing it in the passage was a 3d visual meaning that he was describing god sitting above the earth and the heavens opening out like a curtain and my dad thinks this is the expansion of the universe.

I argued with him for hours the other night about this and he also insists that this is just 1 of the prophecies there are many others that have happened like Israel becoming a nation is another big one. I am of the mindset that all humans are energy and so are animals and so are plants and so are bacteria and so are stars and galaxys so why do we have to have a religion? What do you think of this? Is Jesus actually real? I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.


http://www.wordonfire.org...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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3/30/2016 4:10:55 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/30/2016 12:32:55 AM, tropicalstorm12 wrote:
I am 20 years old and I am attending a community college so I live at home. My father is one of the most religious Christians I have ever met, any time you say Jesus Christ if water spills on the floor, he will say IS LORD to correct you for using the lords name in vein. I always get into arguments because I come from a logical stand point and I am scientifically literate and so is my father he is a software engineer so he is very good at mathematics and yet he seems to insist that Jesus is real. I always want to know why smart people are religious. So I asked him and he started telling me about how the Christian bible is the only bible that correctly predicts future events that only god could know were going to happen in the future. This is called bible prophecy. I asked him why out of the estimated 4200 other religions Christianity was so important and he said that "over a third of the bible consists of prophecy and no other book can make that claim." One reason he gave for why he feels so strongly about this, is this specific statement in the bible written in Isaiah 4-:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." The reason why this statement is so important to my dad is because it was written in 8th century BC 200 years before any evidence was ever uncovered about earths form and it says "circle of the earth". SO my dad says how could they have possibly known that earth was a circle that long ago and I say well they used to think the earth was flat so maybe it was a flat circle that he was describing and my dad goes on to say that the way Isaiah was describing it in the passage was a 3d visual meaning that he was describing god sitting above the earth and the heavens opening out like a curtain and my dad thinks this is the expansion of the universe.

I argued with him for hours the other night about this and he also insists that this is just 1 of the prophecies there are many others that have happened like Israel becoming a nation is another big one. I am of the mindset that all humans are energy and so are animals and so are plants and so are bacteria and so are stars and galaxys so why do we have to have a religion? What do you think of this? Is Jesus actually real? I like to think that most people just weigh the opportunity cost when it comes to religion, they think to themselves what do I have to lose if I believe and it's real I go to heaven if it's not real nothing happens and I just die. However they tell themselves if it is wrong and they don't believe they will go to hell. I think fear is what causes a lot of people to become religious. I don't really have an explanation for why Isaiah wrote circle of the earth and my father seems to think that it is because the bible speaks the truth and that it was the only book at that time that knew of the earth being circular during that time frame.

Ask him how to explain a objective Heaven that would work for everyone. Ask him, how he would define god... how can you not factor in what humans (us) feel when we are in his image - in that essence; why would god want to be god?

If you are a logical dude, trust me, get past religion. But, you do not have to give up your spirituality. I personally label myself Agnostic Atheist - Spiritual. There is a reason i separate them. To be intellectually honest... i am the first two. To be honest to myself, i am spiritual...however, and most importantly, unaffiliated.

We are all humans. Some have different knowledge than others. I would respect all knowledge. I would respect that there was spirituality in the past and it persists till today. That is to be respected but not blindly believed. I would logically break down everything and see what makes sense to you. Ultimately, what will make sense to you is what you would want a paradise to look like if there is a transcendent reality. You may find that in a religion, or like me, figure it out yourself. Or... you can choose not to believe in anything. There is sufficient evidence that our being is contingent on a brain. Although, i think there is more... there is no proof i can come up with.

You remind me of me a little, however the opposite. I always debate with my uncle about the possibilities of a transcendent realm (he is pretty smart to - unfortunately for me as a neurologist). However, his point always rings true, why? Why do i try to make everything spiritual when i can say there is a logical explanation. Also, he drills me on correlating my beliefs to what i see now. He argues that in another 1000 years there may be another type of earth with a whole new set of beliefs... so what makes mine special; what make the past spirituality special? It is all created by humans. For greed, power, control... but sometimes, for hope. I believe in the hope part... but, i accept that there may be nothing.

In this acceptation of nothingness, or just death, i know to live my life to the fullest. If my spiritual belief rings true... then it make no difference to now, the present... it will either be or not, but... i still live now and to the fullest. My belief concludes i am standing in a paradise right now - i chose to be here. I will do my best to figure our why and take everyday as it comes... but, in this dualism of spirituality and materialism within me, i feel more knowledgeable than any theist and as free as any atheist - most important aspect to my belief is it's made by me; making me accountable for what i am to this world.