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Sexism of Christian leaders

Chloe8
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3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Christianity supposedly gains its insights and moral compass from a supernatural god of limitless knowledge and power. As such a gift to humanity, it would be expected that it would inspire its leaders to promote the highest ideals of human love, understanding, and fairness. But what we see is something different, and one of the ways this is displayed is in the historical attitude of church leaders toward women. The following was taken from:

http://new.exchristian.net...

In past centuries, men who were hailed as Church Fathers, Patriarchs, Doctors, and even Saints boldly expressed their view that females are inferior and loathsome; and they explained at length why God shared their perspective. Lest we fall into the conservative trap of thinking that the past was somehow better than the nasty messes we face today, it"s worth pondering some of the lovely tidbits that the Church has thought fit to preserve and promote in the centuries since Christianity was founded. Here are some of the most savory. They come from three waves of religious leaders: "Fathers" of the Catholic Church, Protestant Reformers, and American patriarchs who inherited the mantle of both.

Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century
Protestant Reformers

The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
No gown worse becomes a woman than the desire to be wise. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts, and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude. "John Calvin, Reformer (1509-1564)
Do not any longer contend for mastery, for power, money, or praise. Be content to be a private, insignificant person, known and loved by God and me. . . . of what importance is your character to mankind, if you was buried just now Or if you had never lived, what loss would it be to the cause of God. "John Wesley, founder of Methodist movement (1703-1791), letter to his wife, July 15, 1774
Even the media"s most unabashed misogynists are tame compared to their ideological ancestors, which include some of the biggest names in Christian history.American Patriarchs (Puritan, Mormon, Baptist, Evangelical)

Even as the church must fear Christ Jesus, so must the wives also fear their husbands. And this inward fear must be shewed by an outward meekness and lowliness in her speeches and carriage to her husband. . . . For if there be not fear and reverence in the inferior, there can be no sound nor constant honor yielded to the superior. "John Dod, A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandements,Puritan guidebook first published in 1603
The second duty of the wife is constant obedience and subjection. "John Dod, A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandements, Puritan guidebook first published in 1603
The root of masculine is stronger, and of feminine weaker. The sun is a governing planet to certain planets, while the moon borrows her light from the sun, and is less or weaker. "Joseph Smith, founder of LDS movement (1805-1844)
Women are made to be led, and counseled, and directed. . . . And if I am not a good man, I have no just right in this Church to a wife or wives, or the power to propagate my species. What then should be done with me? Make a eunuch of me, and stop my propagation. "Heber C. Kimball, venerated early LDS apostle (1801-1868)
A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband, even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. "Official statement of Southern Baptist Convention, Summer 1998, (15.7 million members)
The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. " Pat Robertson, Southern Baptist leader (1930-)
The Holiness of God is not evidenced in women when they are brash, brassy, boisterous, brazen, head-strong, strong-willed, loud-mouthed, overly-talkative, having to have the last word, challenging, controlling, manipulative, critical, conceited, arrogant, aggressive, assertive, strident, interruptive, undisciplined, insubordinate, disruptive, dominating, domineering, or clamoring for power. Rather, women accept God"s holy order and character by being humbly and unobtrusively respectful and receptive in functional subordination to God, church leadership, and husbands. "James Fowler, Women in the Church, 1999.
Women will be saved by going back to that role that God has chosen for them. Ladies, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up it is because you are fighting your role in the scripture. "Mark Driscoll, founder of Mars Hill nondenominational mega-church franchise.(1970-)
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Harikrish
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3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/31/2016 8:10:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

It does not matter if someone is male or female, they should still oppose sexism. my point here is that a god would not be sexist or encourage sexism. The fact Christianity has so much historical sexism supports my view that is was made up by sexist males in a primitive age.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/31/2016 8:12:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

Maybe more than voted for Hari.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:


Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.

Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Simple answer. Christianity is a sexist religion.

If the Christian god was real it would have prevented sexist teaching over the last 2 milleniums by sexist men in positions of authority in Christian denominations around the world.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/31/2016 9:01:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:12:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

Maybe more than voted for Hari.

Repeating the same thing over and over again hoping to get a different result is the definition of insanity. Try a different approach unless you are stuck on stupid.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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3/31/2016 9:04:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:


Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.

Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Because they don't have the authority to do so. Jesus chose only men to be his 12 apostles and the priesthood was only instituted in them. The Church preserves and passes on what it was given.

You got a problem with it, I would advise that you take it up with Jesus when you next see him.

If the Christian god was real it would have prevented sexist teaching over the last 2 milleniums by sexist men in positions of authority in Christian denominations around the world.

Funny, it is only in the Christian world that notions of inequality of women were shed. That it took the culture centuries to catch up is not a failing in the teachings.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/31/2016 9:09:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 9:01:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:12:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

Maybe more than voted for Hari.

Repeating the same thing over and over again hoping to get a different result is the definition of insanity. Try a different approach unless you are stuck on stupid.

The truth is, Hari, you received no votes. Is it insanity to repeat the truth?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/31/2016 9:17:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 9:04:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:


Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.

Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Because they don't have the authority to do so. Jesus chose only men to be his 12 apostles and the priesthood was only instituted in them. The Church preserves and passes on what it was given.

What a load of b.s. the church preserves and passes on sexist culture and practices because it was originally created by sexist men and is currently led by sexist men.

You got a problem with it, I would advise that you take it up with Jesus when you next see him.

I've never seen him and I never will. If he existed he died nearly 2000 years ago.

If the Christian god was real it would have prevented sexist teaching over the last 2 milleniums by sexist men in positions of authority in Christian denominations around the world.

Funny, it is only in the Christian world that notions of inequality of women were shed. That it took the culture centuries to catch up is not a failing in the teachings.

Funny it's only through women fighting for their rights they managed to get the relatively equal society we see in the modern world today. Interesting how that has coincided with an increasingly secular, educated and well off society. Also interesting that the only place in modern society women can legally be discriminated against is in religion. it shows you guys are getting left in the bronze age where you belong. The age where racism, sexism, slavery, homophobia and violence were all ok.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Harikrish
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3/31/2016 9:27:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 9:09:28 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:01:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:12:40 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

Maybe more than voted for Hari.

Repeating the same thing over and over again hoping to get a different result is the definition of insanity. Try a different approach unless you are stuck on stupid.

The truth is, Hari, you received no votes. Is it insanity to repeat the truth?

You are lying. Read my Why Muslims need a Champion thread again.

Yassine wrote:"
Wa'alaykom Salam,

- After what you just said, you got my full support :-) ."

In Harikrish for Christian Champion.
The-Holy-Macrel wrote: " Lets work together."

You will find Christians and Muslims on my friendship list. That is the strongest endorsement.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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3/31/2016 9:29:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
It should be noted that even Judaism, deep in its history, was polytheistic with two male and one female deity. It was on when the followers of Yahweh came into power that the others were 'put out to pasture'.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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3/31/2016 9:41:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 9:17:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:04:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:


Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.

Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Because they don't have the authority to do so. Jesus chose only men to be his 12 apostles and the priesthood was only instituted in them. The Church preserves and passes on what it was given.

What a load of b.s. the church preserves and passes on sexist culture and practices because it was originally created by sexist men and is currently led by sexist men.

That is why the teaching of the Church has always been consistent. Sometime it has been called too liberal, other times too conservative. All that it does is preserve the message of the Gospel and confect the sacraments in the manner it has been authorized to do.

Now you may not believe, and that is your choice. Please don't tell me what the Church teaches unless you have studied it (which you obviously haven't).

You got a problem with it, I would advise that you take it up with Jesus when you next see him.

I've never seen him and I never will. If he existed he died nearly 2000 years ago.

Well, I believe we have differing opinions on that matter.

If the Christian god was real it would have prevented sexist teaching over the last 2 milleniums by sexist men in positions of authority in Christian denominations around the world.

Funny, it is only in the Christian world that notions of inequality of women were shed. That it took the culture centuries to catch up is not a failing in the teachings.

Funny it's only through women fighting for their rights they managed to get the relatively equal society we see in the modern world today. Interesting how that has coincided with an increasingly secular, educated and well off society. Also interesting that the only place in modern society women can legally be discriminated against is in religion. it shows you guys are getting left in the bronze age where you belong. The age where racism, sexism, slavery, homophobia and violence were all ok.

So there were no men on your side?

Industrialization had a great effect on enabling society to change. Change has wrought some good, some ill. I would argue that the further secularization of society is causing greater and greater ills. Higher divorce rates, more single parents, never mind the fact that we are unable to even reproduce ourselves despite being more well off than at any other time in history. In fact we kill roughly 25% of our children for sake of expediency. Not exactly the great pinnacle of civilization...

Funny that racism, sexism, etc... are all considered evil when one understands that we are all created equal by a loving God. It was Christians who brought these to an end.
Peepette
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3/31/2016 9:54:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Much of this sexism by today"s standard was based on the view of the time where women were property and verifiable parentage of a child was paramount. Keeping a woman penned up at home would eliminate any question. Considering many women died during child birth, there wasn"t much thought in making an emotional investment into them. Since they could not inherit property nor earn a living they were considered cost factors, a man or father had to feed and clothe a female with little or no return on investment. Their primary purpose was to bear sons. Those who do not see the context of history pertaining to women and attempt to apply this outlook as a religious edict to keep women in a subjugated position are only those of low intelligence and look to gain power for themselves at the expense of women.
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 10:02:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 9:41:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:17:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:04:00 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:38:14 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wrote:


Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century

Yet none of these are official teachings of the Church. These are personal theological opinions.

I can counter by saying that the Church hold a woman as the greatest saint, in fact the saint of the saints themselves. She is referred to as full of grace and mankind's sole boast. Mary is the epitome of the perfect non-divine human.

Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Because they don't have the authority to do so. Jesus chose only men to be his 12 apostles and the priesthood was only instituted in them. The Church preserves and passes on what it was given.

What a load of b.s. the church preserves and passes on sexist culture and practices because it was originally created by sexist men and is currently led by sexist men.

That is why the teaching of the Church has always been consistent. Sometime it has been called too liberal, other times too conservative. All that it does is preserve the message of the Gospel and confect the sacraments in the manner it has been authorized to do.

Actually the church has taught many things over the years. It once claimed a flat earth and denied evolution.

Now you may not believe, and that is your choice. Please don't tell me what the Church teaches unless you have studied it (which you obviously haven't).

You got a problem with it, I would advise that you take it up with Jesus when you next see him.

I've never seen him and I never will. If he existed he died nearly 2000 years ago.

Well, I believe we have differing opinions on that matter.

Agree.

If the Christian god was real it would have prevented sexist teaching over the last 2 milleniums by sexist men in positions of authority in Christian denominations around the world.

Funny, it is only in the Christian world that notions of inequality of women were shed. That it took the culture centuries to catch up is not a failing in the teachings.

Funny it's only through women fighting for their rights they managed to get the relatively equal society we see in the modern world today. Interesting how that has coincided with an increasingly secular, educated and well off society. Also interesting that the only place in modern society women can legally be discriminated against is in religion. it shows you guys are getting left in the bronze age where you belong. The age where racism, sexism, slavery, homophobia and violence were all ok.

So there were no men on your side?

A few but without women standing up for equality they would not have got it.

Industrialization had a great effect on enabling society to change. Change has wrought some good, some ill. I would argue that the further secularization of society is causing greater and greater ills. Higher divorce rates, more single parents, never mind the fact that we are unable to even reproduce ourselves despite being more well off than at any other time in history. In fact we kill roughly 25% of our children for sake of expediency. Not exactly the great pinnacle of civilization...

Funny that racism, sexism, etc... are all considered evil when one understands that we are all created equal by a loving God. It was Christians who brought these to an end.

Funny how this loving God is racist and sexist. It's also logical to consider the significantly more peaceful low crime society of today compared to the violent and cruel middle ages. When people were murdered, beaten, raped and tortured routinely. Please explain in greater detail the claim about people killing 25% of children, it does not make any sense. Also the claim about reproduction seems strange. Of course we reproduce! Higher divorce rates are mainly from women having more chance to get out of abusive /unfair relationships then years ago. I would strongly encourage people to spend a long period of time living together before having children to try and make sure the partnership works long term.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
someloser
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3/31/2016 10:11:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Simple answer. Christianity is a sexist religion.
So?
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
someloser
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3/31/2016 10:13:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:02:06 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Funny how this loving God is racist and sexist.
Source for former?

It's also logical to consider the significantly more peaceful low crime society of today compared to the violent and cruel middle ages. When people were murdered, beaten, raped and tortured routinely.
Greater violence of the Middle Ages cannot reasonably be attributed to religiosity. Try extreme poverty and genetic factors.

Higher divorce rates are mainly from women having more chance to get out of abusive /unfair relationships then years ago.
Source please.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 10:17:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:11:47 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Simple answer. Christianity is a sexist religion.
So?

it shows it's a myth created by 1st century men. Its also used in modern society as an excuse for unfair discrimination.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 10:21:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:13:38 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:02:06 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Funny how this loving God is racist and sexist.
Source for former?

The bible.

It's also logical to consider the significantly more peaceful low crime society of today compared to the violent and cruel middle ages. When people were murdered, beaten, raped and tortured routinely.
Greater violence of the Middle Ages cannot reasonably be attributed to religiosity. Try extreme poverty and genetic factors.

Well religion was often the reason why violence was carried out. Including most wars.

Higher divorce rates are mainly from women having more chance to get out of abusive /unfair relationships then years ago.
Source please.

Common sense. A woman seeking divorce in 1800 wouldn't have had a chance of a decent life post divorce.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
someloser
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3/31/2016 10:22:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:17:08 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:11:47 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Simple answer. Christianity is a sexist religion.
So?

it shows it's a myth created by 1st century men. Its also used in modern society as an excuse for unfair discrimination.
That elements of an ancient doctrine do not pander to our modern sensibilities do nothing to "prove" that it's a "myth".

There's no problem with members of a religious institution following its rules, given that they do not encroach upon the rights of others. If a church has such a big problem with that doctrine, they can stop calling themselves one and do whatever the fvck they want.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 10:33:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:22:14 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:17:08 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:11:47 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:44:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Why can't a woman be an archbishop, cardinal, pope, bishop or in some denominations even a priest?

Simple answer. Christianity is a sexist religion.
So?

it shows it's a myth created by 1st century men. Its also used in modern society as an excuse for unfair discrimination.
That elements of an ancient doctrine do not pander to our modern sensibilities do nothing to "prove" that it's a "myth".

There's no problem with members of a religious institution following its rules, given that they do not encroach upon the rights of others. If a church has such a big problem with that doctrine, they can stop calling themselves one and do whatever the fvck they want.

Then they should stop claiming to worship a loving God who created everyone as equals and accept as you do it is a sexist religion with a god who thinks of women as second class citizens.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
someloser
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3/31/2016 10:39:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:33:23 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Then they should stop claiming to worship a loving God who created everyone as equals
Equal in a philosophical sense (since we all have souls per the doctrine and all).

and accept as you do it is a sexist religion with a god who thinks of women as second class citizens.
That makes no sense. The fact that an atheist cannot become the pope does make him a second-class citizen. Same goes for women.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
brontoraptor
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3/31/2016 10:43:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 8:10:58 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

It does not matter if someone is male or female, they should still oppose sexism. my point here is that a god would not be sexist or encourage sexism. The fact Christianity has so much historical sexism supports my view that is was made up by sexist males in a primitive age.

I'm a Christian and not sexist. By the way, howdo you know what a god would endorse? Is this the god of Liberlized Progressive Atheism or the god in the Bible who when it came to the birth of Christ came to? A woman. The first revelation of the resurrection of Christ? Given to? Women. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you? Believe it or not, applies even to how we treat? Women.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/31/2016 10:47:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 7:57:31 PM, Chloe8 wre expected that it would inspire its leaders to promote the highest ideals of human love, understanding, and fairness. But what we see is something different, and one of the ways this is displayed is in the historical attitude of church leaders toward women. The following was taken from:

http://new.exchristian.net...

In past centuries, men who were hailed as Church Fathers, Patriarchs, Doctors, and even Saints boldly expressed their view that females are inferior and loathsome; and they explained at length why God shared their perspective. Lest we fall into the conservative trap of thinking that the past was somehow better than the nasty messes we face today, it"s worth pondering some of the lovely tidbits that the Church has thought fit to preserve and promote in the centuries since Christianity was founded. Here are some of the most savory. They come from three waves of religious leaders: "Fathers" of the Catholic Church, Protestant Reformers, and American patriarchs who inherited the mantle of both.

Church Doctors and Fathers

[Women's]very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame."Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2)
In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God"s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil"s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die" Woman, you are the gate to hell. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman is a temple built over a sewer. "Tertullian, "the father of Latin Christianity" (c160-225)
Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman" I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. "Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354 " 430)
Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his. Therefore she is unsure in herself. What she cannot get, she seeks to obtain through lying and diabolical deceptions. And so, to put it briefly, one must be on one"s guard with every woman, as if she were a poisonous snake and the horned devil. " Thus in evil and perverse doings woman is cleverer, that is, slyer, than man. Her feelings drive woman toward every evil, just as reason impels man toward all good. "Saint Albertus Magnus, Dominican theologian, 13th century
As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. "Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century
Protestant Reformers

The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
No gown worse becomes a woman than the desire to be wise. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
Men have broad and large chests, and small narrow hips, and more understanding than women, who have but small and narrow breasts, and broad hips, to the end they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children. "Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude. "John Calvin, Reformer (1509-1564)
Do not any longer contend for mastery, for power, money, or praise. Be content to be a private, insignificant person, known and loved by God and me. . . . of what importance is your character to mankind, if you was buried just now Or if you had never lived, what loss would it be to the cause of God. "John Wesley, founder of Methodist movement (1703-1791), letter to his wife, July 15, 1774
Even the media"s most unabashed misogynists are tame compared to their ideological ancestors, which include some of the biggest names in Christian history.American Patriarchs (Puritan, Mormon, Baptist, Evangelical)

Even as the church must fear Christ Jesus, so must the wives also fear their husbands. And this inward fear must be shewed by an outward meekness and lowliness in her speeches and carriage to her husband. . . . For if there be not fear and reverence in the inferior, there can be no sound nor constant honor yielded to the superior. "John Dod, A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandements,Puritan guidebook first published in 1603
The second duty of the wife is constant obedience and subjection. "John Dod, A Plaine and Familiar Exposition of the Ten Commandements, Puritan guidebook first published in 1603
The root of masculine is stronger, and of feminine weaker. The sun is a governing planet to certain planets, while the moon borrows her light from the sun, and is less or weaker. "Joseph Smith, founder of LDS movement (1805-1844)
Women are made to be led, and counseled, and directed. . . . And if I am not a good man, I have no just right in this Church to a wife or wives, or the power to propagate my species. What then should be done with me? Make a eunuch of me, and stop my propagation. "Heber C. Kimball, venerated early LDS apostle (1801-1868)
A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband, even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. "Official statement of Southern Baptist Convention, Summer 1998, (15.7 million members)
The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. " Pat Robertson, Southern Baptist leader (1930-)
The Holiness of God is not evidenced in women when they are brash, brassy, boisterous, brazen, head-strong, strong-willed, loud-mouthed, overly-talkative, having to have the last word, challenging, controlling, manipulative, critical, conceited, arrogant, aggressive, assertive, strident, interruptive, undisciplined, insubordinate, disruptive, dominating, domineering, or clamoring for power. Rather, women accept God"s holy order and character by being humbly and unobtrusively respectful and receptive in functional subordination to God, church leadership, and husbands. "James Fowler, Women in the Church, 1999.
Women will be saved by going back to that role that God has chosen for them. Ladies, if the hair on the back of your neck stands up it is because you are fighting your role in the scripture. "Mark Driscoll, founder of Mars Hill nondenominational mega-church franchise.(1970-)

Let's call the spade of spades Chloe. I'm calling you out. You are a liberal, who in the name of multiculturism and equality is pro-minority and pro Islamic immigration, thus pro THIS...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/31/2016 10:48:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Chloe is pro THIS

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 10:57:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:39:08 PM, someloser wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:33:23 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Then they should stop claiming to worship a loving God who created everyone as equals
Equal in a philosophical sense (since we all have souls per the doctrine and all).

Not equal in terms of life on earth. The bible implies women are inferior to men.

Corinthians 11:3

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

I Corinthians 11:8-9

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."

I Corinthians 14:34-35:

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Just a few of the many sexist bible verses.

and accept as you do it is a sexist religion with a god who thinks of women as second class citizens.
That makes no sense. The fact that an atheist cannot become the pope does make him a second-class citizen. Same goes for women.

If a woman believes in Roman catholicism there is no justification for preventing her from being the pope. Obviously an atheist would not want to be the pope and it makes sense why Catholics don't want an atheist pope. It's discrimination on grounds of gender disregarding capability for the job.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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3/31/2016 11:04:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:43:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:10:58 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

It does not matter if someone is male or female, they should still oppose sexism. my point here is that a god would not be sexist or encourage sexism. The fact Christianity has so much historical sexism supports my view that is was made up by sexist males in a primitive age.

I'm a Christian and not sexist. By the way, howdo you know what a god would endorse? Is this the god of Liberlized Progressive Atheism or the god in the Bible who when it came to the birth of Christ came to? A woman. The first revelation of the resurrection of Christ? Given to? Women. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you? Believe it or not, applies even to how we treat? Women.

I'm not saying all Christians are sexist I'm saying the religion itself is sexist. I think you will find of all the people referenced in the bible less then 5% are women do you can't overplay a couple of mentions here and there. God impregnated Mary without her consent. It's hardly anything to celebrate. Well this is in the bible.

Corinthians 11:3

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

I Corinthians 11:8-9

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."

I Corinthians 14:34-35:

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Is the bible not the word of god according to Christians? Surely these verses show the christian God endorses sexism?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
brontoraptor
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3/31/2016 11:07:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 11:04:20 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 10:43:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:10:58 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 8:02:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
We have many female members on DDO who frequent the Religious forum. Let's us see if they agree with you and come to your defence or even bother to read your OP.

It does not matter if someone is male or female, they should still oppose sexism. my point here is that a god would not be sexist or encourage sexism. The fact Christianity has so much historical sexism supports my view that is was made up by sexist males in a primitive age.

I'm a Christian and not sexist. By the way, howdo you know what a god would endorse? Is this the god of Liberlized Progressive Atheism or the god in the Bible who when it came to the birth of Christ came to? A woman. The first revelation of the resurrection of Christ? Given to? Women. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you? Believe it or not, applies even to how we treat? Women.

I'm not saying all Christians are sexist I'm saying the religion itself is sexist. I think you will find of all the people referenced in the bible less then 5% are women do you can't overplay a couple of mentions here and there. God impregnated Mary without her consent. It's hardly anything to celebrate. Well this is in the bible.

Corinthians 11:3

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

I Corinthians 11:8-9

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."

I Corinthians 14:34-35:

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Is the bible not the word of god according to Christians? Surely these verses show the christian God endorses sexism?

You're quoting a letter to a specific group of people in a culture where women don't speak. You never quote Jesus himself. Ever notice that? Let's take an even closer look.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/31/2016 11:08:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Christianity doesn't seem to be hurting women very much...

Oprah Winfrey

Winfrey was called "the world's most powerful woman" by CNN and Time Magazine.

http://youtu.be...

Oprah talks about Jesus

http://m.christianpost.com...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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3/31/2016 11:08:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/31/2016 10:02:06 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:41:54 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/31/2016 9:17:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

<snip>

Funny it's only through women fighting for their rights they managed to get the relatively equal society we see in the modern world today. Interesting how that has coincided with an increasingly secular, educated and well off society. Also interesting that the only place in modern society women can legally be discriminated against is in religion. it shows you guys are getting left in the bronze age where you belong. The age where racism, sexism, slavery, homophobia and violence were all ok.

So there were no men on your side?

A few but without women standing up for equality they would not have got it.

And only possible because it was completely compatible with Christian principles.

Industrialization had a great effect on enabling society to change. Change has wrought some good, some ill. I would argue that the further secularization of society is causing greater and greater ills. Higher divorce rates, more single parents, never mind the fact that we are unable to even reproduce ourselves despite being more well off than at any other time in history. In fact we kill roughly 25% of our children for sake of expediency. Not exactly the great pinnacle of civilization...

Funny that racism, sexism, etc... are all considered evil when one understands that we are all created equal by a loving God. It was Christians who brought these to an end.

Funny how this loving God is racist and sexist.

Citation?

It's also logical to consider the significantly more peaceful low crime society of today compared to the violent and cruel middle ages. When people were murdered, beaten, raped and tortured routinely.

It seems to me that these things still take place with alarming regularity... Take away electricity, the combustion engine and computers and see how well we'd fare.

Please explain in greater detail the claim about people killing 25% of children, it does not make any sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

210 abortions per 1000 live births. Add in abortion pills and those killed by contraception and you've killed at least 25% of conceived children.

Also the claim about reproduction seems strange. Of course we reproduce!

Yet not enough to reproduce ourselves.

Birth Rate per woman.
1.9 - US
1.9 - United Kingdom
1.8 - Belgium
1.6 - Canada
1.4 - Germany
1.4 - Italy

Higher divorce rates are mainly from women having more chance to get out of abusive /unfair relationships then years ago.

Yes 50% of marriages involve abuse husband because men are just such brutes.

I would strongly encourage people to spend a long period of time living together before having children to try and make sure the partnership works long term.

Living together before marriage results in higher divorce rates.

http://divorce.lovetoknow.com...