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End of Days

FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?

The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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4/1/2016 7:49:28 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

The end of this world will be when our universe has died. A long time out if religious nuts don't do it faster through their hateful rhetoric... but, i have plans to stop that and hopefully one day my aspiration will be met with the love in the hearts of those that are sick of the worlds churches.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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4/1/2016 9:33:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

I'd ask Him how I would know, and what He means by "dispatch".
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/2/2016 2:27:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 9:33:31 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

I'd ask Him how I would know, and what He means by "dispatch".

"You would know those deserving of our wrath by the fact those undeserving would be unharmed by your blows. " To demonstrate this, He asks you to simply prick your finger with.. well, anything. Miraculously, such a prick leaves you unharmed. Further miraculous divine revelation could be inspired. The point is that you are given a fool proof way of "knowing".

"To put to sword. Kill. Deliver Our righteous vengeance as our chosen people did to the Midianites millenniums ago. Alpha and Omega's kingdom has come."
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/2/2016 2:29:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Interesting question bound to get interesting answers. Not that they'll be ultimately useful beyond giving the secular another stick to smack the religious with, but interesting nonetheless.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
FaustianJustice
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4/2/2016 2:32:05 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 2:29:40 AM, someloser wrote:
Interesting question bound to get interesting answers. Not that they'll be ultimately useful beyond giving the secular another stick to smack the religious with, but interesting nonetheless.

Depends on the answer, doesn't it?

I see a lot of waffling. Those that have responded seem to want to know why, even though the supposed reason for their morality is literally giving them an edict.

Its almost like.. morality probably didn't come from religion, eh?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
someloser
Posts: 1,377
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4/2/2016 2:36:45 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 2:32:05 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/2/2016 2:29:40 AM, someloser wrote:
Interesting question bound to get interesting answers. Not that they'll be ultimately useful beyond giving the secular another stick to smack the religious with, but interesting nonetheless.

Depends on the answer, doesn't it?
Correct. Ultimately, I believe it will inform us more of those involved than morality itself, though.

I see a lot of waffling. Those that have responded seem to want to know why, even though the supposed reason for their morality is literally giving them an edict.

Its almost like.. morality probably didn't come from religion, eh?
Not as directly as proponents would like to think, yes. Becomes a bit debatable at a more fundamental level. Has a bit of an Euthyphro's dilemma vibe to it.
Ego sum qui sum. Deus lo vult.

"America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea." - Simon Bolivar

"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again." - George Bernard Shaw
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/2/2016 3:28:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

That's the problem with Divine Command Theory right there. It's utterly without any consideration of ANYTHING, except one and only one thing, is this what God wants ?

If the answer is yes, nothing else matters..........
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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4/2/2016 3:32:51 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

Your a piece of sh*t brono.

Every f*cking day your here warning us about the dangers of those murderous religious fanatical muslims.

OH but hey when it comes to your own religion, oh yeah if God wants you dead I will kill you.

How about the real danger isn't so much muslims, it's any person who can kill, torture, rape on the mere belief that it is the will of God, including some one like you.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,206
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4/2/2016 4:17:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

Are you purposefully parading ISIS rhetoric?
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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4/2/2016 4:52:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 3:32:51 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

Your a piece of sh*t brono.

Every f*cking day your here warning us about the dangers of those murderous religious fanatical muslims.

OH but hey when it comes to your own religion, oh yeah if God wants you dead I will kill you.

How about the real danger isn't so much muslims, it's any person who can kill, torture, rape on the mere belief that it is the will of God, including some one like you.

Holy crap.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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4/2/2016 7:14:22 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

If absolute power dawns on you, all you can do is stand and stare - hope what is in your heart is favored.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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4/2/2016 7:27:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

If Jesus showed up . I'd become a Christian straight away.
RedAtheist912
Posts: 89
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4/2/2016 9:43:57 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

If that happens, I would expect Muhammad to emerge too, then Zeus, then Shiva, then Yahweh and so so forth. Then get some popcorn.

Just kidding. If that happens, after determining whether he is a hoax (maybe he shows some extraordinary magical powers), I would rather acknowledge that Christ is true. Not so quick as to worship Jesus though, just because someone is powerful doesn't mean they deserve worship. I would see if they were kind and loving at all, since if someone such as Jesus comes to prove all of an entity, everything including the bad bits would be true, not only the cherry-picked good parts. Slavery for example, quite possibly not condemned by Christ, would probably be thrust upon us.

Someone's morality would be how much they worship Christ. This would probably be stated by the ultimate totalitarian. People would say, "I love God! Therefore I am more moral than you!" Laws would be overturned, criminals would be free and moral as long as they accept Christ afterwards I guess.

Science would be revolutionized. Since science is flexible and is a study of how our natural world works, scientists would be trying to study Jesus and make sense of how He came here, where He was, etc, it's stance would be switched to the side of evidence. Evidence of Christ, Christ would be in science, Christ would be taught in textbooks perhaps.

But still, if that really happened, I wouldn't be quite scared. Because I wouldn't be able to do anything. If Jesus was here to split the believers to the non-believers and banish the latter, I could do nothing to prevent my inevitable fate. Undoubtedly people would say "just hail to Him, just accept Him!" But if He really was going to banish people to a place of eternal torture just because they don't believe in Him, that would be pretty cruel and evil. If Superman was real and wanted everybody to worship him or he would disintegrate them with his deadly eye beams, that would be the equivalent picture. Ever heard of Hyperion?

So nope. I would kill myself, but that's no escape. I would go to hell knowing that I'm braver and stood up for the truth more than the countless slaves above. I would be happy to spend my immortality in torture knowing that I'm morally superior to "the Lord." Besides, many of the world's greatest thinkers, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Richard Dawkins, the legendary Hitchens, Einsten (pantheist), and so forth. So yeah, I would be in great company of those brave enough to stand up for the themselves and not be slaved by an all-powerful being. Maybe have a cup of tea while we discuss and laugh about world matters. I would be in good company.

I appreciate it that I'm not losing any sleep over this possibility though, OP.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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4/2/2016 10:47:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

Perhaps you'd like the read the OT and just see what his old man does order.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tarantula
Posts: 852
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4/2/2016 10:53:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
The end times will be a natural event when our planet dies, probably if the sun goes out. It will be nothing to do with any deity, imo.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/2/2016 11:32:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

Its not meant to be a feel good question. The initial suggestion stems from those that stated some nature of religion or God or what have not is the ultimate judge/inventor/knower of what is moral and just: an objective morality. In this particular circumstance, said entity comes down, reveals to Its creation that its time to 'come to the fold' is over, if people haven't figured it out by now, its up to the true followers to show the unbelievers what awaits them.

For the purposes of this question, its assumed thats the "real deal". Heaven on Earth is to be realized, the unbelievers are not worthy of His sight, etc etc. Those whom have denied Him are to be shown to their fate at the hands of those that accepted Him.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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4/2/2016 1:31:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

I think you have some questions given to you in this thread which you need to answer, sir.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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4/2/2016 2:16:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 9:43:57 AM, RedAtheist912 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

If that happens, I would expect Muhammad to emerge too, then Zeus, then Shiva, then Yahweh and so so forth. Then get some popcorn.

Just kidding. If that happens, after determining whether he is a hoax (maybe he shows some extraordinary magical powers), I would rather acknowledge that Christ is true. Not so quick as to worship Jesus though, just because someone is powerful doesn't mean they deserve worship. I would see if they were kind and loving at all, since if someone such as Jesus comes to prove all of an entity, everything including the bad bits would be true, not only the cherry-picked good parts. Slavery for example, quite possibly not condemned by Christ, would probably be thrust upon us.

Someone's morality would be how much they worship Christ. This would probably be stated by the ultimate totalitarian. People would say, "I love God! Therefore I am more moral than you!" Laws would be overturned, criminals would be free and moral as long as they accept Christ afterwards I guess.

Science would be revolutionized. Since science is flexible and is a study of how our natural world works, scientists would be trying to study Jesus and make sense of how He came here, where He was, etc, it's stance would be switched to the side of evidence. Evidence of Christ, Christ would be in science, Christ would be taught in textbooks perhaps.

But still, if that really happened, I wouldn't be quite scared. Because I wouldn't be able to do anything. If Jesus was here to split the believers to the non-believers and banish the latter, I could do nothing to prevent my inevitable fate. Undoubtedly people would say "just hail to Him, just accept Him!" But if He really was going to banish people to a place of eternal torture just because they don't believe in Him, that would be pretty cruel and evil. If Superman was real and wanted everybody to worship him or he would disintegrate them with his deadly eye beams, that would be the equivalent picture. Ever heard of Hyperion?

So nope. I would kill myself, but that's no escape. I would go to hell knowing that I'm braver and stood up for the truth more than the countless slaves above. I would be happy to spend my immortality in torture knowing that I'm morally superior to "the Lord." Besides, many of the world's greatest thinkers, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Richard Dawkins, the legendary Hitchens, Einsten (pantheist), and so forth. So yeah, I would be in great company of those brave enough to stand up for the themselves and not be slaved by an all-powerful being. Maybe have a cup of tea while we discuss and laugh about world matters. I would be in good company.

I appreciate it that I'm not losing any sleep over this possibility though, OP.

So you are saying science would be revolutionized, indicating the world would stay at least semi-stable, and your solution to a God you don't wish to follow is using up your mortal life to kill yourself? If you aren't bound by faith, then why give up? I would think that would make you want to live.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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4/2/2016 2:27:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 10:47:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

Perhaps you'd like the read the OT and just see what his old man does order.

Why do you think I said I'd be scared? I just know who I am, and there's some things I just won't change to the gates of hell. If he accepts me, he's not going to be getting some limp noodle of a soul that bends however he pleases. If he doesn't, well that would just be what it is.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/2/2016 2:30:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

I agree with your response. I was gonna write one, but after I read yours, it expressed my sentiments on the subject so much so, that I didn't wanna seem like a copycat.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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4/2/2016 2:39:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 2:27:57 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/2/2016 10:47:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

Perhaps you'd like the read the OT and just see what his old man does order.

Why do you think I said I'd be scared? I just know who I am, and there's some things I just won't change to the gates of hell. If he accepts me, he's not going to be getting some limp noodle of a soul that bends however he pleases. If he doesn't, well that would just be what it is.
So how do you rationalise your beliefs with the atrocities allegedly attributable to your god.
If those stories are true and you must believe they are, as god's word, then are you sure you want to spend eternity with such a creature?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,078
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4/2/2016 2:53:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/2/2016 2:39:29 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/2/2016 2:27:57 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/2/2016 10:47:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/2/2016 4:16:41 AM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 4/1/2016 8:26:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/1/2016 7:46:58 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

You would be getting what you deserved because you would have done something that warrants death. Any questions?

You still aren't answering the question. "What would you do?". Are you going to dispatch people as your lord God decreed?

Nope. God is perfectly capable of that. I'm not going against my values to do his dirty work, or whatever he's planning if that's really his decree. I guess I'm going to hell, but I sure as hell aren't going to be the person to send others for such a weak reason, especially when I was taught to do otherwise. I'd be mad as hell if someone claiming to be Jesus Christ said that. Not sure what I'd do. Probably try to cool down, and check on my family and regroup for awhile, get some supplies, pray, though I can't tell you what I'd say...might not be good haha, but I hope it would be.

That said, I'd probably be scared shitless. I don't ever remember being afraid before, but I can imagine if anything, outright disobeying someone that powerful would probably do it for me, especially under the circumstances, so I don't think my words are worth that much.

How do I know he's Jesus Christ carrying a message from God? It would suck if he was. I'd feel totally abandoned but, that's going against every strain in my body to just believe someone telling me to dispatch the remaining population on Earth, especially if they are probably damned. I already hate killing things, even food. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ. That just doesn't make sense. Why? Major red flags. My head is already exploding just thinking about it. :( Sounds like the saddest thing ever. I don't give up, but that'd be a hard blow for me if people started listening. Heck, just hearing something like that come from someone who's supposed to be waiting to help cleanse our sin is heart breaking. I just hope my family would be okay. I don't let anything happen to them come hell or high water. I think I'd have no choice but to ask or even beg for their forgiveness, which would suck since I hate asking God for anything in the first place.

Agh, I feel like you're the six fingered man trying to torture me, saying, "Be honest. How do you think it would feel?" Yuck.

Perhaps you'd like the read the OT and just see what his old man does order.

Why do you think I said I'd be scared? I just know who I am, and there's some things I just won't change to the gates of hell. If he accepts me, he's not going to be getting some limp noodle of a soul that bends however he pleases. If he doesn't, well that would just be what it is.
So how do you rationalise your beliefs with the atrocities allegedly attributable to your god.
If those stories are true and you must believe they are, as god's word, then are you sure you want to spend eternity with such a creature?

2 way street. Its wrong of me to assume anything about the morality of his actions from my perspective. If he kills my family or an entire nation, he's not actually killing them. For all we know he's giving them a little timeout, while he straightens things out. It's evil to us, but until we have the perspective we just don't know, hence the faith required of us. So to answer your question, no I'm not sure if I'd want to spend eternity in heaven, but that's possibly the least significant aspect of my religion at this time and till the day of judgment comes I can't really know can I?
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/4/2016 4:14:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Bump, I am dismayed at the lack of responses and dodges.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
PGA
Posts: 4,032
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4/4/2016 4:41:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

First and foremost, you confuse the audience of address, thus, you butcher having a correct understanding of prophecy, removing it from its context by 2000 years without justification. For instance, what was the audience of address in the book of Revelation? Can you make a good case for it being one 2000 years removed from the context? Can you make the case for the whole of the prophetic message being thus removed, or did it apply to this 1st century people about events that would shortly come to pass? If so can that view be justified? I believe it is the only one that can and I would be glad to argue with you on it as to the trustworthiness of God's Word. That would be one verification that the biblical God is who He says He is if He can predict events in great detail before they come to pass with 100% accuracy. Can you argue that He did not, reasonable and justifiable?

I do not believe you can so I will leave you to your other posts unless you take the challenge. But if you can't or won't then don't give me your subjective version of where morality comes from or that God is not moral because I do not see you as being able to justify it.

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

Peter
PGA
Posts: 4,032
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4/4/2016 4:42:45 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

PS, I'll read and catch up on the rest of this thread on the weekend to see what else you have to say.

Peter
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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4/4/2016 4:43:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 4:41:15 AM, PGA wrote:
At 4/1/2016 3:48:58 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
JC Himself shows up, tells everyone "The Father and I have given you 2000 years to come unto Him through me, and you have failed. The New Covenant has passed, now begins the End of Days. Go forth and dispatch those that denied Me and the Father".

First and foremost, you confuse the audience of address, thus, you butcher having a correct understanding of prophecy, removing it from its context by 2000 years without justification.

Blah blah blah, pretext for my dodge.

For instance, what was the audience of address in the book of Revelation? Can you make a good case for it being one 2000 years removed from the context? Can you make the case for the whole of the prophetic message being thus removed, or did it apply to this 1st century people about events that would shortly come to pass? If so can that view be justified? I believe it is the only one that can and I would be glad to argue with you on it as to the trustworthiness of God's Word. That would be one verification that the biblical God is who He says He is if He can predict events in great detail before they come to pass with 100% accuracy. Can you argue that He did not, reasonable and justifiable?

Blah blah blah, justification for my dodge.

I do not believe you can so I will leave you to your other posts unless you take the challenge. But if you can't or won't then don't give me your subjective version of where morality comes from or that God is not moral because I do not see you as being able to justify it.

What do you do?


The same could be said of Mohammed, or John Smith, or whatever religious icon and dogma one chooses of their faith, insert is desired.

I believe this is probably the best test of where morality comes from.

So, honest answers please, and of course, please don't attempt to divert or reframe the question.

Peter
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...