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Was there a need for the Qur'an?

Dollyy
Posts: 43
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4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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4/3/2016 5:11:59 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

1st post don't go like that .
Your a sock puppet. Your deceiving . Who sent you ?
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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4/3/2016 5:56:54 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

Because Allah had never promised He would guard and protect the Bible and the Torah from corruption and alteration just He did to the Quran.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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4/3/2016 11:38:14 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 5:11:59 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

1st post don't go like that .
Your a sock puppet. Your deceiving . Who sent you ?

Why would someone's first post "not go like that"?
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/3/2016 1:12:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 5:56:54 AM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

Because Allah had never promised He would guard and protect the Bible and the Torah from corruption and alteration just He did to the Quran.

Lol. He could see the future and is omnipotent, so he got caught off guard and can't destroy the nonmuslims why again? Because...he is well...Satan.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/3/2016 1:16:38 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

I once had an English translation of the Q'ran ( called the Koran).

It is true. Even a number of scientists are coming round to that fact.

It is not literal throughout, it makes wide use of figures of speech and metaphor, but once you get to the true meanings embedded in it you realise just how accurate it truly is, as the literature available in Vietnamese is likely to be able to demonstrate for you.

As far as I am aware (because I can't speak or read it, everything you could want is available on the end of this link. I don;t doubt that includes audio recordings and videos. If you can read Vietnamese you will be able to understand exactly what is available.

https://www.jw.org...

I do know that the Bible is available on the end of the jw.org ink in hundreds of languages, and I believe it to be the most accurate translation going, not the least because it actually put's God's name everywhere that they could prove it belongs, over 7,000 places, whereas even the American Standard omits it from where it belongs in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament as it is wrongly known).

However I cannot say that the NWT is 100% accurate, merely as accurate as the WTBTS have succeeded in making it so far. They are still working on improving it.

In English they give readers the ability to compare a number of different translation but I do not ow how may they have translated into Vietnamese.

If you want to see the number of languages the site is available in, just click on the tab in the top right corner of the page, and take your pick from the drop down box. There are certainly a lot of them including many sign language versions, including Vietnamese sign language, as it happens.
uncung
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4/3/2016 1:24:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

I once had an English translation of the Q'ran ( called the Koran).

It is true. Even a number of scientists are coming round to that fact.

It is not literal throughout, it makes wide use of figures of speech and metaphor, but once you get to the true meanings embedded in it you realise just how accurate it truly is, as the literature available in Vietnamese is likely to be able to demonstrate for you.

As far as I am aware (because I can't speak or read it, everything you could want is available on the end of this link. I don;t doubt that includes audio recordings and videos. If you can read Vietnamese you will be able to understand exactly what is available.

https://www.jw.org...

I do know that the Bible is available on the end of the jw.org ink in hundreds of languages, and I believe it to be the most accurate translation going, not the least because it actually put's God's name everywhere that they could prove it belongs, over 7,000 places, whereas even the American Standard omits it from where it belongs in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament as it is wrongly known).

However I cannot say that the NWT is 100% accurate, merely as accurate as the WTBTS have succeeded in making it so far. They are still working on improving it.

In English they give readers the ability to compare a number of different translation but I do not ow how may they have translated into Vietnamese.

If you want to see the number of languages the site is available in, just click on the tab in the top right corner of the page, and take your pick from the drop down box. There are certainly a lot of them including many sign language versions, including Vietnamese sign language, as it happens.

As usual Christians hardly showing their real original Bible when we ask it. I said I want to translate by my self the Bible into Vietnamese.
Which Bible should I use? it has to be, of course, the very closed version to the Bible of Jesus.
uncung
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4/3/2016 1:34:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Because Allah had never promised He would guard and protect the Bible and the Torah from corruption and alteration just He did to the Quran.

Lol. He could see the future and is omnipotent, so he got caught off guard and can't destroy the nonmuslims why again? Because...he is well...Satan.

But the fact He didn't protect the Torah and the Bible from the corruption and the alteration.
He didn't destroy non muslims just like He does to the Devil.
MadCornishBiker
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4/3/2016 2:03:27 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 1:34:14 PM, uncung wrote:
Because Allah had never promised He would guard and protect the Bible and the Torah from corruption and alteration just He did to the Quran.

Lol. He could see the future and is omnipotent, so he got caught off guard and can't destroy the nonmuslims why again? Because...he is well...Satan.

But the fact He didn't protect the Torah and the Bible from the corruption and the alteration.

No, but Jehovah did protect the meanings in it, and make sure it is still possible to understand it.

In other words the whole of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation did indeed have protection but only up to a certain level.

He didn't destroy non Muslims just like He does to the Devil.

In his own time Jehovah will send his son to destroy all who oppose him, whether beliefs they may profess, but currently he is still being patient with us and giving us the opportunity to learn.

However he set the time scale for all to happen in way back in the Garden of Eden when a plan to get everything back onto the original plan became necessary. He will no more end that time scale early than he will allow it to over-run.

Jehovah didn't get caught off guard exactly. He trusted his creation, Angelic and human, to use the free will he gave them wisely.

They let him down, but by the time the corrective plan is completed there will be no excuse left for any to repeat that, so if any should be stupid enough to do so they will be destroyed instantly.

How stupid do you need to be to rebel against Jehovah? Satan gives us the prime example. He challenged Jehovah's right and ability to rule when he declared that no man would ever serve Jehovah freely and in adversity, as recorded in Job chapters 1 & 2.

Had he not restricted his challenge to "no man" it would have been harder to prove him wrong, but he was stupid, and arrogant, enough to actually make it easy for Jehovah, though not necessarily for us, because it means that in situation after situation after situation, circumstance after circumstance has presented it's own challenge to Jehovah's servants.

However there is only one set of conditions left to test, but that will take a lot of setting up beforehand, and includes the resurrection, teaching and practice of living Jehovah's way, and then Satan being released, from his captivity which starts with Armageddon, briefly to test all of those who have made it that far.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/3/2016 2:39:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
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4/3/2016 2:44:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 2:03:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 1:34:14 PM, uncung wrote:
Because Allah had never promised He would guard and protect the Bible and the Torah from corruption and alteration just He did to the Quran.

Lol. He could see the future and is omnipotent, so he got caught off guard and can't destroy the nonmuslims why again? Because...he is well...Satan.

But the fact He didn't protect the Torah and the Bible from the corruption and the alteration.

No, but Jehovah did protect the meanings in it, and make sure it is still possible to understand it.

In other words the whole of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation did indeed have protection but only up to a certain level.

He didn't destroy non Muslims just like He does to the Devil.

In his own time Jehovah will send his son to destroy all who oppose him, whether beliefs they may profess, but currently he is still being patient with us and giving us the opportunity to learn.

However he set the time scale for all to happen in way back in the Garden of Eden when a plan to get everything back onto the original plan became necessary. He will no more end that time scale early than he will allow it to over-run.

Jehovah didn't get caught off guard exactly. He trusted his creation, Angelic and human, to use the free will he gave them wisely.

They let him down, but by the time the corrective plan is completed there will be no excuse left for any to repeat that, so if any should be stupid enough to do so they will be destroyed instantly.

How stupid do you need to be to rebel against Jehovah? Satan gives us the prime example. He challenged Jehovah's right and ability to rule when he declared that no man would ever serve Jehovah freely and in adversity, as recorded in Job chapters 1 & 2.

Had he not restricted his challenge to "no man" it would have been harder to prove him wrong, but he was stupid, and arrogant, enough to actually make it easy for Jehovah, though not necessarily for us, because it means that in situation after situation after situation, circumstance after circumstance has presented it's own challenge to Jehovah's servants.

However there is only one set of conditions left to test, but that will take a lot of setting up beforehand, and includes the resurrection, teaching and practice of living Jehovah's way, and then Satan being released, from his captivity which starts with Armageddon, briefly to test all of those who have made it that far.

but why doesn't your Jehovah simply protect the Bible fully from alteration and corruption?
what does the protecting of the meaning mean actually? we need the original bible instead of the meaning, the meaning of the altered verses?
why does your Jehovah allow the unknown people adding and reducing some passage in the bible?

in case of the Jehovah would destroy the people who oppose him, thus there would be a great massacre in the future, where the alleged Jehovah would kill many people around the world, since there are many people are not Christians in China, India, Turkey, Vietnam and Arab countries.
And your alleged Jehovah would also kill many Jews in Israel since the Jews oppose the Jesus, and your Jehovah would also kill almost all people in Swedish.
what kind of evil God do you worship actually?
uncung
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4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?
frbnsn
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4/3/2016 3:10:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
As far as I know, there are various Bibles which don't comply with each other.
Doesn't it show that it is corrupted?

The Bible has lost two times in history and wrote again by men long time after forgotten and in addition, Bible transferred generation to generation orally, this gave rise to corruption.

As for The Qur'an, it has reached today by writing, so it is one original, in Arabic ,not more.

But it is really engrossing that The Qur'an is just one, but The Bible is a lot!
Harikrish
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4/3/2016 3:11:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 1:16:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

I once had an English translation of the Q'ran ( called the Koran).

It is true. Even a number of scientists are coming round to that fact.

It is not literal throughout, it makes wide use of figures of speech and metaphor, but once you get to the true meanings embedded in it you realise just how accurate it truly is, as the literature available in Vietnamese is likely to be able to demonstrate for you.

As far as I am aware (because I can't speak or read it, everything you could want is available on the end of this link. I don;t doubt that includes audio recordings and videos. If you can read Vietnamese you will be able to understand exactly what is available.

https://www.jw.org...

I do know that the Bible is available on the end of the jw.org ink in hundreds of languages, and I believe it to be the most accurate translation going, not the least because it actually put's God's name everywhere that they could prove it belongs, over 7,000 places, whereas even the American Standard omits it from where it belongs in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament as it is wrongly known).

However I cannot say that the NWT is 100% accurate, merely as accurate as the WTBTS have succeeded in making it so far. They are still working on improving it.

In English they give readers the ability to compare a number of different translation but I do not ow how may they have translated into Vietnamese.

If you want to see the number of languages the site is available in, just click on the tab in the top right corner of the page, and take your pick from the drop down box. There are certainly a lot of them including many sign language versions, including Vietnamese sign language, as it happens.

You are using as your source of scriptures a translation of the Greek Bible. Your bible translation was completed in 1961. It is ridiculous that you are disputing the Quran which is availed in its original form and used as the primary source of Islamic religious leaders and Islamic scholars when your own Bible's translation and interpretations are not recognized by any Christian institution.
DanneJeRusse
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4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
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4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?
DanneJeRusse
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4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
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4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/3/2016 3:26:40 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 2:44:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:03:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


but why doesn't your Jehovah simply protect the Bible fully from alteration and corruption?

A surprisingly easy question to answer and at its heart is justice.

Why?

Well true justice applies equally to all guilty and innocent. And its purpose is to remove possible doubt.

Satan is wrong, and that is all there is to it, but how do you prove that? A simple statement would not satisfy Justice. Whilst justice could well be done it would not be seen to have been done.

That meant that Satan had to be given the chance to prove his challenge, hopeless as it may seem, especially with knowledge and hindsight.

In other words Jehovah has to be able to say that Satan cannot win his challenge, and to back that up with real evidence.

That also meant that he had to limit the ways he interfered with Satan's opportunity, including the opportunity to tamper with the evidence. The Bible is that evidence so Satan had to be allowed to interfere with it.

Of course the prosecution, which inevitably means Jehovah also has his rights.

Between the Garden of Eden, where the corrective plan was set in motion and the coming of the Messiah, and beyond as far as the setting up of the New Covenant which was fully in place by the end of the 1st century the accuracy of scripture was essential, and Satan was only allowed to interfere with it by influencing men to misinterpret it and also to ban the pronouncing of God's name.

Once the pattern of the future faith was set, and the last of the Apostles had died, because there were still around 1700 years until the true faith needed to be followed, the Apostasy was allowed to take over, and Jehovah prevented only the complete corruption of scripture, since Jehovah new his son could revive the true faith in time for it to be needed when Judgement comes round.

What about those who died ignorant in the meantime?

That s where the resurrection of the dead comes in. After Armageddon all who have died will be resurrected onto the cleansed earth, taught the truth and give the opportunity to practice living according to it, before Satan, who has been imprisoned after Armageddon, the first judgement day, is released again for a short time to test humanity out under these new, and final set of, circumstances.

Don't underestimate Jehovah's power and ability. Satan did and it will prove a fatal misjudgement for him. Jehovah's plan, in the control of his son, will succeed, that is inevitable, and after that final test he will, thanks to his son, have everything back to where it was originally supposed to be.

what does the protecting of the meaning mean actually? we need the original bible instead of the meaning, the meaning of the altered verses?

No, all we need is the understanding of what Jehovah wants us to learn from it. That is now being revealed to us by the people that he has drawn to his son's side since the mid 1800s, and who his son has slowly and patiently trained to do his father's will.

why does your Jehovah allow the unknown people adding and reducing some passage in the bible?

I think I have covered that quite well above.It is very similar to how he allowed Pharaoh's heart to harden back in Egypt. Jehovah is now proving his power despite being handicapped to an extent.


in case of the Jehovah would destroy the people who oppose him, thus there would be a great massacre in the future, where the alleged Jehovah would kill many people around the world, since there are many people are not Christians in China, India, Turkey, Vietnam and Arab countries.

Yes that is unfortunately true.

People are being offered the chance to learn, the chance to save their own lives by their own actions. Jehovah does not want anyone in his New World who would not be happy with the terms and conditions.

He wants all to listen to his people, but he won;t force anyone, and he has his standards, especially n seeking people who love truth. John 4:23-24.

And your alleged Jehovah would also kill many Jews in Israel since the Jews oppose the Jesus, and your Jehovah would also kill almost all people in Swedish.

I am afraid people will make it inevitable that he will have to destroy the majority, as in fact scripture foretells, but it is their choice not his. He has sent out his "lifeboat" if people choose not to get on board and be saved that will be their choice, no-one else's.

what kind of evil God do you worship actually?

My God is not evil, nor will he tolerate evil much longer.

The God I worship is the God who created the Universe and all that it contains.

He is the God of Love Wisdom Justice and power, all of them in the perfect balance.

The evidence is in the Bible, those who refuse to recognise that will deserve all that they get, destruction.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/3/2016 3:27:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?

Yes, and I gave you the link to help you find it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/3/2016 3:32:12 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 2:39:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

That is why Jehovah has arranged for his word to be available in many different languages.

His people take both the global nature of the ministry his son has given them, and the need for people to have the Bible and Bible based literature in their own languages, as you will see if you go to http://www.jw.org... and click on the language icon in the top right corner of the page.
DanneJeRusse
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4/3/2016 3:36:09 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:32:12 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:39:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:57:45 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 12:06:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 5:04:43 AM, Dollyy wrote:
First I'll establish a few points. I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong at any point.

Muslims claim that the Bible has been corrupted so there was a need for Allah to intervene with the Qur'an. They claim that Allah has personally undertaken the responsibility of guarding the Qur'an from corruption so that it remains in its original language free of errors.. The question is, if Allah is protecting the Qur'an now and he has power over all things then why did he not protect his earlier revelations in the first place? It doesn't paint a good picture of the all-powerful God who created the entire galaxy yet failed to protect his book from this alleged corruption at the hands of tiny humans. So he had to invalidate his previous messages by sending another book to clear up things rather than protecting his messages in the first place keeping in mind that many sincere people do follow these earlier revelations. If Allah sent Prophet Mohammed as the last and final prophet to clear up this confusion then no offense but it appears as though more confusion was generated..

There is never any need for lies, which is the entire basis of the Q'ran.

However it has to be admitted that the Bible has been corrupted by Apostate Christianity, some translations more than others.

Did that necessitate action by a false God like Satan AKA Allah?

Hardly since it was his minions on earth that corrupted the Bible in the first place. Q'ran is just another corruption, and an even worse one, as the fruitage it brings, such as IS, proves completely.

The sad thing, the really sad thing, is that people don't stop to think that the God who has sufficient power to create the universe without noticeably depleting his own power. has far more than enough power to protect his word to whatever extent he wishes, and has in fact done so, meaning that whilst Satan's influence has made scripture harder to glean the truth from, it has failed dismally in its attempt to confuse it completely.

Yes Jehovah has more than sufficient power to negate anything Satan has done, and to guide those who ask him for help to understand his word and find his, and his son's true followers.

Not only that, he has not only the desire to do so, but the need to also, since the most important thing to him is to prove to men and Angels that not only is Satan wrong, but that no matter what eh tries, how long he is given to try it, he cannot possibly win.

To that end the Bible, and the events it recounts are evidence, not only to men but to Angels also. The fact that much of it was written well in advance of the vents themselves only adds to the power of that evidence because not only does it prove Satan wrong, it proves that he can even be given foreknowledge of what Jehovah is going to do and still cannot prevent it.

Of course Angels don;t need written evidence, since they are witnessing directly what we can only witness through the written record. However, we need that evidence as much as they do if we are to have the strength to stand up to Satan, and the knowledge of how to do so.

Yes, Jehovah has protected his word to an extent, but not so fully that it doesn't allow people to fool themselves, or be fooled if they allow it, thus separating out those who feel truth is worth the effort needed to obtain in from those who want it all handed them on a plate.

It also separates those who have sufficient humility to recognise the need they have for guidance from Jehovah, form those who are too arrogant to admit that.

After all, if Adam had turned to his God for help, none of this would have happened or been needed.

If we turn to Jehovah for help we will get it, and will survive what is to come so that we can enjoy all the beautiful promises Jehovah made to his servants.

But, the choice is yours.

Do you think truth is worth the effort?

Or do you think you are too smart to need the help?

Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

That is why Jehovah has arranged for his word to be available in many different languages.

No, he didn't. The OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, while the NT was in Greek.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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4/3/2016 3:41:04 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:26:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:44:21 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:03:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


but why doesn't your Jehovah simply protect the Bible fully from alteration and corruption?

A surprisingly easy question to answer and at its heart is justice.

Why?

Well true justice applies equally to all guilty and innocent. And its purpose is to remove possible doubt.

Satan is wrong, and that is all there is to it, but how do you prove that? A simple statement would not satisfy Justice. Whilst justice could well be done it would not be seen to have been done.

That meant that Satan had to be given the chance to prove his challenge, hopeless as it may seem, especially with knowledge and hindsight.

In other words Jehovah has to be able to say that Satan cannot win his challenge, and to back that up with real evidence.

That also meant that he had to limit the ways he interfered with Satan's opportunity, including the opportunity to tamper with the evidence. The Bible is that evidence so Satan had to be allowed to interfere with it.

Of course the prosecution, which inevitably means Jehovah also has his rights.

Between the Garden of Eden, where the corrective plan was set in motion and the coming of the Messiah, and beyond as far as the setting up of the New Covenant which was fully in place by the end of the 1st century the accuracy of scripture was essential, and Satan was only allowed to interfere with it by influencing men to misinterpret it and also to ban the pronouncing of God's name.

Once the pattern of the future faith was set, and the last of the Apostles had died, because there were still around 1700 years until the true faith needed to be followed, the Apostasy was allowed to take over, and Jehovah prevented only the complete corruption of scripture, since Jehovah new his son could revive the true faith in time for it to be needed when Judgement comes round.

What about those who died ignorant in the meantime?

That s where the resurrection of the dead comes in. After Armageddon all who have died will be resurrected onto the cleansed earth, taught the truth and give the opportunity to practice living according to it, before Satan, who has been imprisoned after Armageddon, the first judgement day, is released again for a short time to test humanity out under these new, and final set of, circumstances.

Don't underestimate Jehovah's power and ability. Satan did and it will prove a fatal misjudgement for him. Jehovah's plan, in the control of his son, will succeed, that is inevitable, and after that final test he will, thanks to his son, have everything back to where it was originally supposed to be.

what does the protecting of the meaning mean actually? we need the original bible instead of the meaning, the meaning of the altered verses?

No, all we need is the understanding of what Jehovah wants us to learn from it. That is now being revealed to us by the people that he has drawn to his son's side since the mid 1800s, and who his son has slowly and patiently trained to do his father's will.

why does your Jehovah allow the unknown people adding and reducing some passage in the bible?

I think I have covered that quite well above.It is very similar to how he allowed Pharaoh's heart to harden back in Egypt. Jehovah is now proving his power despite being handicapped to an extent.


in case of the Jehovah would destroy the people who oppose him, thus there would be a great massacre in the future, where the alleged Jehovah would kill many people around the world, since there are many people are not Christians in China, India, Turkey, Vietnam and Arab countries.

Yes that is unfortunately true.

People are being offered the chance to learn, the chance to save their own lives by their own actions. Jehovah does not want anyone in his New World who would not be happy with the terms and conditions.

He wants all to listen to his people, but he won;t force anyone, and he has his standards, especially n seeking people who love truth. John 4:23-24.

And your alleged Jehovah would also kill many Jews in Israel since the Jews oppose the Jesus, and your Jehovah would also kill almost all people in Swedish.

I am afraid people will make it inevitable that he will have to destroy the majority, as in fact scripture foretells, but it is their choice not his. He has sent out his "lifeboat" if people choose not to get on board and be saved that will be their choice, no-one else's.

what kind of evil God do you worship actually?


My God is not evil, nor will he tolerate evil much longer.

The God I worship is the God who created the Universe and all that it contains.

He is the God of Love Wisdom Justice and power, all of them in the perfect balance.

The evidence is in the Bible, those who refuse to recognise that will deserve all that they get, destruction.

you keep blaming satan on your altered scripture , meanwhile you will never able to get back the original bible from your jesus version whatsoever.
Thus the Christians nowadays simply rely on the uncertain, unknown writing from the unknown people from the ancient era. let alone those writings were thorough many alterations additional, reduction and the mixing with men words and jesus and the God's words.

how could you able to understand well the bible yet it is not original messages from jesus?
You simply obey the unknown men from the ancient time. isn't it sound terrible. you simply waste your time by obeying the belief that is still vague.

your alleged jehovah would kill almost all people around the world in the future due they oppose the jesus, but you said it was not an evil action? in this case you said that the alleged son of god would kill many people. how could it is not called an evil? your alleged jesus would become a savage psychopath killer. ever beyond Hitler crime.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/3/2016 3:43:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?

A book from God will be available from God for all people, not just from one man for Arabs. Do you understand this?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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4/3/2016 3:47:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:43:24 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?

A book from God will be available from God for all people, not just from one man for Arabs. Do you understand this?

I understand what you mean, but who says so? what if the God intentionally only provides a true book in one language because He knows mankind have ability to translate it into other languages?

you said it is the fact, but my idea also the fact, so who is the true one between us?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/3/2016 3:57:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:47:49 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:43:24 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?

A book from God will be available from God for all people, not just from one man for Arabs. Do you understand this?

I understand what you mean, but who says so?

Non-Arabs.

what if the God intentionally only provides a true book in one language because He knows mankind have ability to translate it into other languages?

That makes no sense, if God is omnipotent, then he could easily provide a book in any language, and that's exactly what he would do rather than trusting humans, who often make mistakes or would corrupt his word.

you said it is the fact, but my idea also the fact, so who is the true one between us?

Your idea is open to corruption and error.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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4/3/2016 4:07:02 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/3/2016 3:47:49 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:43:24 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:25:33 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:18:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:17:15 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/3/2016 3:15:59 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/3/2016 2:46:21 PM, uncung wrote:
Let saying the Bible was true, which bible should I use if I want to translate it into Vietnamese for instance? Since the Quran is only available in Arabic, no other else. What about the Bible?

A true religion would not have been written in one language specific to those who can only read that language, it would be made to be read by all people. The Quran was written by Arabs for Arabs, hence it is not a true religion.

who says that?

It doesn't matter who said it, those are the facts.

Since when you admit that religious stuff is the fact?

I didn't.
you just claimed that the book from God is supposed to be available in non arab language. and you consider it as the fact. don't you?

A book from God will be available from God for all people, not just from one man for Arabs. Do you understand this?

I understand what you mean, but who says so? what if the God intentionally only provides a true book in one language because He knows mankind have ability to translate it into other languages?

you said it is the fact, but my idea also the fact, so who is the true one between us?

Even the original Quran is hard to read in one absolute meaning since it's in Classical Arabic and all verses have different tafsirs even among people with Arabic as mother tongue. For example, just take the verse about semen emerging from between back bones and ribs, and see how different scholars say different things.