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God is basically incompetent (duh)

AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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4/5/2016 8:32:07 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?
In your case God relies on your closest relatives, chimps with down syndrome.
Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.
If you think that's the only way you're dumber than a box of horse tail hair.
TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
Btw this was purely in jest. This OP made me cachinnate.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/5/2016 9:30:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 8:32:07 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?
In your case God relies on your closest relatives, chimps with down syndrome.

I don't know what I find more disturbing, the fact that my relatives are chimps with down syndrome or that God relies on them. Either way, I'm disturbed....very disturbed...

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.
If you think that's the only way you're dumber than a box of horse tail hair.

xD WTF "dumber than a box of horse tail hair"?!

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
Btw this was purely in jest. This OP made me cachinnate.

"Cachinnate"

Translation: lol
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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4/5/2016 3:56:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

The nature of God is Love.

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

You'll have to expand on this.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

God didn't rely on "Paper" unless you believe in the Muslim or Protestant faith systems. He left men with his authority.

So it seems that you are operating under a false assumption.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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4/5/2016 10:57:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 3:56:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

The nature of God is Love.

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

You'll have to expand on this.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

God didn't rely on "Paper" unless you believe in the Muslim or Protestant faith systems. He left men with his authority.

So it seems that you are operating under a false assumption.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...

Without the bible you don't have a god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 1:54:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 3:56:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

The nature of God is Love.

He certainly doesn't demonstrate it.

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

You'll have to expand on this.

Why?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

God didn't rely on "Paper" unless you believe in the Muslim or Protestant faith systems. He left men with his authority.

Yes but, "men". And besides, he did rely on paper because he inspired the authors of the bible to write stuff down, didn't he? The bible is his word, according to the bible (lol) and thus, he relies on a human invention to spread his word. Really quite simple.

So it seems that you are operating under a false assumption.

No I'm not.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/6/2016 1:58:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

Not an optimist I see. Shall we call you Negative Nancy or Debbie Downer? Would you like your prozak now or later?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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4/6/2016 2:50:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:54:46 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 3:56:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

The nature of God is Love.

He certainly doesn't demonstrate it.

Sure he came and suffered with us as one of us for all of us.

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

You'll have to expand on this.

Why?

It isn't particularly clear.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

God didn't rely on "Paper" unless you believe in the Muslim or Protestant faith systems. He left men with his authority.

Yes but, "men". And besides, he did rely on paper because he inspired the authors of the bible to write stuff down, didn't he? The bible is his word, according to the bible (lol) and thus, he relies on a human invention to spread his word. Really quite simple.

Really? The Bible denotes which books and sayings are inspired? Very few do that, in fact the only one that comes to mind is Revelations...

He does act through a human agency as the visible sign of his body.

So it seems that you are operating under a false assumption.

No I'm not.

If you're a former JW you certainly are
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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4/6/2016 3:19:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

It maybe interesting to you, but the following is what I have just decided to call the Ramshutu Conjecture:

1.) If God exists, he or she has a number of individual and specific motivations and goals.

2.) Assuming that God is a coherent entity, with the ability to create a universe as they see fit, and most importantly is smarter than Ramshutu; it should be impossible to posit a universe of any kind that better meets Gods goals and motivations than the current one.

3.) Any God to which a believer ascribes rational sets of goals and motivations that are better met by other universes; does not exist.

With (3) you can reasonably discount any Gods that currently exist in religious ideology; as in each flavor of every faith, the motivations and goals are better served with other universes. It is reasonable, as the only way to posit the existence of that God discounted this way is generally to assert some unknown and incoherent motivation or Goal exists which is not mentioned in that faith or religion, and which in all cases renders a significantly incoherent universe with respect to the other goals, coherent.
rextr05
Posts: 213
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4/6/2016 4:15:32 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

You seem to be assuming quite a bit with your description. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the ultramundane aspect of God?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Are we really termites? Is this solar system insignificant? Do we really control other humans? Is it our job to save others?
Just say, this is the only planet with human life. Who knows right? Why would you describe us & our planet etc as you do?
It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control. We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

Well, at 1st it was word of mouth given generation to generation. When writing was made available, it would only make sense to pass a message down with that venue so ones message is in line with the original idea. & don't forget, all the prophets & Jesus Himself was here to give that " bloody PAPER" reinforcement.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
Canuck
Posts: 164
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4/6/2016 4:21:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:19:49 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

It maybe interesting to you, but the following is what I have just decided to call the Ramshutu Conjecture:


1.) If God exists, he or she has a number of individual and specific motivations and goals.

2.) Assuming that God is a coherent entity, with the ability to create a universe as they see fit, and most importantly is smarter than Ramshutu; it should be impossible to posit a universe of any kind that better meets Gods goals and motivations than the current one.

3.) Any God to which a believer ascribes rational sets of goals and motivations that are better met by other universes; does not exist.

With (3) you can reasonably discount any Gods that currently exist in religious ideology; as in each flavor of every faith, the motivations and goals are better served with other universes. It is reasonable, as the only way to posit the existence of that God discounted this way is generally to assert some unknown and incoherent motivation or Goal exists which is not mentioned in that faith or religion, and which in all cases renders a significantly incoherent universe with respect to the other goals, coherent.

So if we can discount all gods in current religious ideology, I guess that leaves the door wide open to discover who/what the real god is. I'm sure there is good money to be made in that discovery. I'm going to predict it's an emotionally unstable being who is an outcast from a highly advanced alien civilization.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 8:12:39 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:58:15 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

Not an optimist I see. Shall we call you Negative Nancy or Debbie Downer? Would you like your prozak now or later?

You can call Realist Roy
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 8:18:39 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:50:13 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:54:46 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 3:56:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

The nature of God is Love.

He certainly doesn't demonstrate it.

Sure he came and suffered with us as one of us for all of us.

According to what? The bible? See below.

Also, he hasn't done anything since. He came, he died, and he left. Yeah, real "loving".

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

You'll have to expand on this.

Why?

It isn't particularly clear.

It's basically saying that God relies on insignificant humans to tell other insignificant humans about his divine plan. Why would God do this?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

God didn't rely on "Paper" unless you believe in the Muslim or Protestant faith systems. He left men with his authority.

Yes but, "men". And besides, he did rely on paper because he inspired the authors of the bible to write stuff down, didn't he? The bible is his word, according to the bible (lol) and thus, he relies on a human invention to spread his word. Really quite simple.

Really? The Bible denotes which books and sayings are inspired? Very few do that, in fact the only one that comes to mind is Revelations...

1 Tomothy 3:16

It's says all scripture is inspired by God. All.

He does act through a human agency as the visible sign of his body.

Im not sure what that means.

So it seems that you are operating under a false assumption.

No I'm not.

If you're a former JW you certainly are

Please point out my false assumption, and correct me.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 8:27:09 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 4:15:32 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

You seem to be assuming quite a bit with your description. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the ultramundane aspect of God?

Ultramundane. Outside the universe. What more do you want?


Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Are we really termites?

Compared to the concept of God, yes.

Is this solar system insignificant?

Yep. There are tons of solar systems.

Do we really control other humans?

Stupid question.

Is it our job to save others?

Well, that depends on how you view the question. If you mean "preaching the gospel and converting people" by "save", then yes. If you mean literally "saving people", no.

Just say, this is the only planet with human life. Who knows right? Why would you describe us & our planet etc as you do?

Because we are like a grain of sand on the beach, clearly.

It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control.

Oh yes it is.

We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown.

Really? Religions been controlling people since forever.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

Well, at 1st it was word of mouth given generation to generation.

When was that?

When writing was made available, it would only make sense to pass a message down with that venue so ones message is in line with the original idea.

I'm fairly certain writing has been available since the birth of Judaism.

& don't forget, all the prophets & Jesus Himself was here to give that " bloody PAPER" reinforcement.

What do you mean?


TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 8:34:21 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 4:21:41 AM, Canuck wrote:
At 4/6/2016 3:19:49 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

It maybe interesting to you, but the following is what I have just decided to call the Ramshutu Conjecture:


1.) If God exists, he or she has a number of individual and specific motivations and goals.

2.) Assuming that God is a coherent entity, with the ability to create a universe as they see fit, and most importantly is smarter than Ramshutu; it should be impossible to posit a universe of any kind that better meets Gods goals and motivations than the current one.

3.) Any God to which a believer ascribes rational sets of goals and motivations that are better met by other universes; does not exist.

With (3) you can reasonably discount any Gods that currently exist in religious ideology; as in each flavor of every faith, the motivations and goals are better served with other universes. It is reasonable, as the only way to posit the existence of that God discounted this way is generally to assert some unknown and incoherent motivation or Goal exists which is not mentioned in that faith or religion, and which in all cases renders a significantly incoherent universe with respect to the other goals, coherent.

So if we can discount all gods in current religious ideology, I guess that leaves the door wide open to discover who/what the real god is. I'm sure there is good money to be made in that discovery. I'm going to predict it's an emotionally unstable being who is an outcast from a highly advanced alien civilization.

Personally, I think it's a random schizophrenic hobo that broke into an inter-dimensional D-Wave Systems HQ to tinker with the universe simulation computer. Hey, that's just my theory...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/6/2016 1:03:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 8:12:39 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:58:15 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

Not an optimist I see. Shall we call you Negative Nancy or Debbie Downer? Would you like your prozak now or later?

You can call Realist Roy

He's on prozak too
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/6/2016 3:53:08 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 1:03:54 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/6/2016 8:12:39 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 1:58:15 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--

Not an optimist I see. Shall we call you Negative Nancy or Debbie Downer? Would you like your prozak now or later?

You can call Realist Roy

He's on prozak too

*doesnt know what prozak is*

*googles "prozak"*

"Wut? A rapper?"

*mildly confused*

*googles "what is prozak"*

*finds that it's an antidepressant drug. Get's joke. Also finds that it's actually spelt "prozac"*

*laughs way harder at the joke then I should have*

*realises I am mentally unstable*

*makes sure to tell brontorapter he's an idiot for misspelling prozac*

"You're an idiot"

*realises I forgot to put "me" in "you can call Realist Roy"*

*feels like an idiot*

*dies*

Fin

Realist Roy: 2016 - 2016

Do you have any final words?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
rextr05
Posts: 213
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4/6/2016 4:23:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 8:27:09 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:15:32 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

You seem to be assuming quite a bit with your description. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the ultramundane aspect of God?

Ultramundane. Outside the universe. What more do you want?


Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Are we really termites?

Compared to the concept of God, yes.
Weren't we made in God's likeness? I don't think termites fit that bill.

Is this solar system insignificant?

Yep. There are tons of solar systems.
Does that qualify to make this solar system insignificant tho?

Do we really control other humans?

Stupid question.
Nah, that's why I added some explanation which you snipped. Use it & explain. "It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control. We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown."

Is it our job to save others?

Well, that depends on how you view the question. If you mean "preaching the gospel and converting people" by "save", then yes. If you mean literally "saving people", no.
Can we really save them tho? It's up to the individual to accept or refuse our attempts. We can't save anyone spiritually. It's up to them.

Just say, this is the only planet with human life. Who knows right? Why would you describe us & our planet etc as you do?

Because we are like a grain of sand on the beach, clearly.
Relative to the example above of the only planet in the universe with life? Then we are not only a grain of sand.

It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control.

Oh yes it is.
Please tell me how.

We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown.

Really? Religions been controlling people since forever.
That's not control, that is a personal choice to follow certain teachings & a way of life. & historically, many people have used the ruse of religion for their own selfish ambitions, which has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings. Wrong or right, it's choosing to follow, not choosing to be controlled. When it becomes an attempt top control ..... it becomes forcing one to do ones bidding & that's not control.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

Well, at 1st it was word of mouth given generation to generation.

When was that?
I would imagine as far back as generational teachings go. B4 writing, there was only verbal use to pass things down.

When writing was made available, it would only make sense to pass a message down with that venue so ones message is in line with the original idea.

I'm fairly certain writing has been available since the birth of Judaism.
Sure it was. Ancient Hebrew language had about 8700 words. Many words had many different & separate meanings as you could imagine. Just like the Hebrew word 'yom' which has been translated into 'day(s). That's why there's controversy over the literal 6 day thing in Genesis. yom meant as little as sun up to sun down, to millions of years.

& don't forget, all the prophets & Jesus Himself was here to give that " bloody PAPER" reinforcement.

What do you mean?
Much of what has been written had to be 1st verbally introduced. I assume that "bloody PAPER" you referred to is the bible. If not, then please explain. & Jesus referred to the OT constantly, ergo the 'reinforcement' of it.


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EtrnlVw
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4/7/2016 12:15:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

Actually it's not at all that Christians don't think, it's that we think outside the box of atheism.
The question is not why would God want to save us, it's what are we being "saved" from? what's the purpose and why? that's what is more relevant...


Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

First of all you have to realize us humans (as "insignificant" as we appear) are actually the most significant thing that exists.... we just happen to be small lol.


Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

You mean why do we have literature??? what other medium has been more utilized to transfer knowledge than through literature (paper)......? ya know....that little black book that is always on your night stand...day and night........tears or joy....dust or shine....? what's wrong with paper it works in every other field of knowledge???
Your life and spirituality was/is not meant to exist on paper only anyways, scripture (paper) exists as a means of learning, a foundation for people who have zero knowledge or are ignorant. We are meant to progress in our learning, knowledge and wisdom but in order to progress and learn we must have a source of reliable information. From there we examine, apply, observe and cultivate, reading "paper" is only half the battle. What is "retarded" is that you discredit the basic format and structure of all that we learn from, that "paper" is the source of everything you know....all that you have learned and been taught comes from a book somewhere.


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AWSM0055
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4/7/2016 2:14:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 4:23:53 PM, rextr05 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 8:27:09 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:15:32 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:14:04 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
Let's think for a bit - an activity not exactly endorsed by Christians. Why would God - an ultramundane, sepreme ruler and creator of the universe - want to save us?

You seem to be assuming quite a bit with your description. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the ultramundane aspect of God?

Ultramundane. Outside the universe. What more do you want?


Even if we assume God really cares about us - basically termites on this insignificant speck of dust wandering about this insignificant solar system, in an insignificant Galaxy somewhere wandering in the vast universe - why does he rely on US humans, to control OTHER humans, to save us humans?

Are we really termites?

Compared to the concept of God, yes.
Weren't we made in God's likeness? I don't think termites fit that bill.

Doesn't matter. We're already so tiny and insignificant in the vast universe. Then compare us to a God figure. We don't even begin to compare.

Is this solar system insignificant?

Yep. There are tons of solar systems.
Does that qualify to make this solar system insignificant tho?

Yes. Something that is extremely common cannot really be significant.

Do we really control other humans?

Stupid question.
Nah, that's why I added some explanation which you snipped. Use it & explain. "It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control. We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown."

Religion disproves that. Christianity has been controlling people's lives beautifully for over 1900 years.


Is it our job to save others?

Well, that depends on how you view the question. If you mean "preaching the gospel and converting people" by "save", then yes. If you mean literally "saving people", no.
Can we really save them tho?

Nope, because it's mostly a load of hogwash.

It's up to the individual to accept or refuse our attempts. We can't save anyone spiritually. It's up to them.

Sure, but why is this relevant again? Your original question asked whether its our job to save people, not if we can save people.

Just say, this is the only planet with human life. Who knows right? Why would you describe us & our planet etc as you do?

Because we are like a grain of sand on the beach, clearly.
Relative to the example above of the only planet in the universe with life? Then we are not only a grain of sand.

Well firstly, we don't know if there is life on other planets, or what the chance of life occurring is. But say, for argument sake, that the chance of life occurring on a planet is 1 in 1 Billion. Considering the billions upon billions upon billions of other planets in the universe, life would be actually quite probable to occur. It would actually be quite arrogant to say that we are the only life in the universe.

It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control.

Oh yes it is.
Please tell me how.

Religion. Brainwash, threaten, murder, terrorism, fear, pressure, manipulation etc etc etc. Yes, religion can truly control people.

We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown.

Really? Religions been controlling people since forever.
That's not control, that is a personal choice to follow certain teachings & a way of life.

It's an illusion of choice. "Convert or die" isn't a choice. Brainwashing people like myself from an early age wasn't a choice. Being manipulated into making a choice isn't actually you making a choice.

& historically, many people have used the ruse of religion for their own selfish ambitions, which has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings.

Does Jesus' teachings have any bearing on anything Christendom does? Don't make me laugh, it's a complete joke. Everything about it is political. I like to call it the most successful propaganda campaign in history. From Catholic Church to Westboro Baptist. Even Jehovahs Witnesses - whom I was once - are complete frauds.

Wrong or right, it's choosing to follow, not choosing to be controlled. When it becomes an attempt top control ..... it becomes forcing one to do ones bidding & that's not control.

Yes it is control, by every definition.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

Well, at 1st it was word of mouth given generation to generation.

When was that?
I would imagine as far back as generational teachings go. B4 writing, there was only verbal use to pass things down.

Are we still talking about the bible? When? I think Job was the first bible book to be written, and that was written, not spoken, so...

When writing was made available, it would only make sense to pass a message down with that venue so ones message is in line with the original idea.

I'm fairly certain writing has been available since the birth of Judaism.
Sure it was. Ancient Hebrew language had about 8700 words. Many words had many different & separate meanings as you could imagine. Just like the Hebrew word 'yom' which has been translated into 'day(s). That's why there's controversy over the literal 6 day thing in Genesis. yom meant as little as sun up to sun down, to millions of years.

True. Personally, though, I don't really care about the definition of "day" because either way, Genesis is still horribly scientifally inaccurate. And besides, that creates a great difficulty, because God created the sun after plants. If we were to say that day meant millions of year, then plants would have been long dead.

& don't forget, all the prophets & Jesus Himself was here to give that " bloody PAPER" reinforcement.

What do you mean?
Much of what has been written had to be 1st verbally introduced. I assume that "bloody PAPER" you referred to is the bible. If not, then please explain. & Jesus referred to the OT constantly, ergo the 'reinforcement' of it.

Right, well I would question your assertion that Jesus reinforced the bible, but anyway.


TL;DR
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com...--
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
rextr05
Posts: 213
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4/7/2016 4:31:04 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/7/2016 2:14:29 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:23:53 PM, rextr05 wrote:
snipped

Are we really termites?

Compared to the concept of God, yes.
Weren't we made in God's likeness? I don't think termites fit that bill.

Doesn't matter. We're already so tiny and insignificant in the vast universe. Then compare us to a God figure. We don't even begin to compare.

You'll have to expound upon that since you didn't address the "made in God's likeness" point. Then again, it's only your opinion so .....

Is this solar system insignificant?

Yep. There are tons of solar systems.

Does that qualify to make this solar system insignificant tho?

Yes. Something that is extremely common cannot really be significant

But wouldn't intelligent life only on this planet out of all the universe's bodies qualify us as significant ..... that is, if indeed we are the only life out there, which may be the case.

Do we really control other humans?

Stupid question.
Nah, that's why I added some explanation which you snipped. Use it & explain. "It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control. We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown."

Religion disproves that. Christianity has been controlling people's lives beautifully for over 1900 years.

Hmm, you seem to glide right by my explanation re that people using religion as a ruse, meaning it's not really what Jesus taught (Christianity only) but what people throughout history have done to control others, which isn't really religion, but a version people have bastardized for their own selfish ambitions.


Is it our job to save others?

Well, that depends on how you view the question. If you mean "preaching the gospel and converting people" by "save", then yes. If you mean literally "saving people", no.
Can we really save them tho?

Nope, because it's mostly a load of hogwash.

Sounds like biased opinion .... nothing more.
snipped

Sure, but why is this relevant again? Your original question asked whether its our job to save people, not if we can save people.

Just trying to clarify cuz your original question posed 2 types of saving.

snipped

Well firstly, we don't know if there is life on other planets, or what the chance of life occurring is. But say, for argument sake, that the chance of life occurring on a planet is 1 in 1 Billion. Considering the billions upon billions upon billions of other planets in the universe, life would be actually quite probable to occur. It would actually be quite arrogant to say that we are the only life in the universe.

Not saying we ARE the only life, just the odds keep going down as scientists find new qualifying parameters for life making the odds less all the time. Just look at Carl Sagan in the 60's that said there were only 2 parameters for a planet to have life on earth. Now there are around 220 parameters.

It is not possible to control others in the real sense of control.

Oh yes it is.
Please tell me how.

Religion. Brainwash, threaten, murder, terrorism, fear, pressure, manipulation etc etc etc. Yes, religion can truly control people.

Once again, if you would have acknowledged my explanation, 1 way or the other, that people bastardize religion for their personal gain. So, it's not religion in the purest sense is it?

We can force others to act in a certain way temporarily, but usually that control is jointly agreed upon for our benefit. If not, it is short lived & that control is overthrown.

Really? Religions been controlling people since forever.
That's not control, that is a personal choice to follow certain teachings & a way of life.

It's an illusion of choice. "Convert or die" isn't a choice. Brainwashing people like myself from an early age wasn't a choice. Being manipulated into making a choice isn't actually you making a choice.

Ah, but you made a choice rather than following what you saw as 'brainwashing.' Altho, it is a choice to keep following an ideal when new info is available contrary to what they have been told. Once again, that's an individual or group using quasi religion as the means to force others to their will. So, it's not control ..... it's forcing people to act like they are controlled, which in essence is being controled by force.

& historically, many people have used the ruse of religion for their own selfish ambitions, which has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings.

Does Jesus' teachings have any bearing on anything Christendom does? Don't make me laugh, it's a complete joke. Everything about it is political. I like to call it the most successful propaganda campaign in history. From Catholic Church to Westboro Baptist. Even Jehovahs Witnesses - whom I was once - are complete frauds.

I'm not going to excuse how religions have turned from Jesus' original message especially with the JW"s. But it is unfair to include all Christians in this group cuz there are many good people, churches & programs due to Christendom. & yes, I have had a personal experience with Westboro during a funeral that I was part of the Patriot Guards motorcycle escort group. Not cool at all.

Wrong or right, it's choosing to follow, not choosing to be controlled. When it becomes an attempt top control ..... it becomes forcing one to do ones bidding & that's not control.

Yes it is control, by every definition.

Why would God rely on bloody PAPER to spread his divine message to us humans? Literally, the most important being in all of reality relies on a pitiful human invention (book) to spread his message! That is retarded.

Well, at 1st it was word of mouth given generation to generation.

When was that?
I would imagine as far back as generational teachings go. B4 writing, there was only verbal use to pass things down.

Are we still talking about the bible? When? I think Job was the first bible book to be written, and that was written, not spoken, so...
snipped

True. Personally, though, I don't really care about the definition of "day" because either way, Genesis is still horribly scientifally inaccurate. And besides, that creates a great difficulty, because God created the sun after plants. If we were to say that day meant millions of year, then plants would have been long dead.

'Yom' was just an example.
Not all of it was intended to be an actual portrayal of historical accuracy. Much is an allegory so as the message is conveyed, not the actual event such as the 1st six days of Genesis. Geez, God can use evolution to bring man to this point that had taken millions of years & billions of years after the big bang had taken place.
Re 'days' .... 'yom' meant many different amounts of time, so each time it was used, the time could have been different. So, your analogy of it re plants is wrong.

& don't forget, all the prophets & Jesus Himself was here to give that " bloody PAPER" reinforcement.

What do you mean?
Much of what has been written had to be 1st verbally introduced. I assume that "bloody PAPER" you referred to is the bible. If not, then please explain. & Jesus referred to the OT constantly, ergo the 'reinforcement' of it.

Right, well I would question your assertion that Jesus reinforced the bible, but anyway.

I only was saying that Jesus used OT scripture when He spoke to the crowds & especially to the Jewish religious leaders, & how it applied to a particular event or something else. Therefore reinforced the bible by referr
AWSM0055
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4/8/2016 1:48:14 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
You'll have to expound upon that since you didn't address the "made in God's likeness" point. Then again, it's only your opinion so .....

I did. I said "It doesn't matter". A rag doll in your image isn't any more significant than a pond. Maybe slightly more significant than a rock. Then compare the rag doll to you. It's still extremely insignificant.

But wouldn't intelligent life only on this planet out of all the universe's bodies qualify us as significant ..... that is, if indeed we are the only life out there, which may be the case.

It probably isn't case though. Considering, again, how vast the universe is, and the complex chemistry that goes on daily, it's is really no surprise that there may be life on other planets.

Besides, we really can't say if we are significant or not based on life, because we really have no idea:

a. How common life is
b. If we are the only planet with life

Hmm, you seem to glide right by my explanation re that people using religion as a ruse, meaning it's not really what Jesus taught (Christianity only) but what people throughout history have done to control others, which isn't really religion, but a version people have bastardized for their own selfish ambitions.

Doesn't matter, the issue here is whether people truly have control over other people, not whether that it is what Christ taught.

Sounds like biased opinion .... nothing more.

Your talking to a former Christian. I don't see how my "opinion" is biased. Besides its not, I'll gladly go through a big list of scientific inaccuracies and other stupid stuff.

snipped

Sure, but why is this relevant again? Your original question asked whether its our job to save people, not if we can save people.

Just trying to clarify cuz your original question posed 2 types of saving.

I was trying to clarify. What do you mean by "saving"?

Not saying we ARE the only life, just the odds keep going down as scientists find new qualifying parameters for life making the odds less all the time.

You'll also have to appreciate that scientists don't even fully know how to define life, which makes it difficult. In fact, viruses aren't regarded as life by most. And that's on earth.

God only knows (no pun intended) what other types of life is out there, or could be formed. Furthermore, it is impossible to say what the chances of life forming is because we don't fully know how life formed or what the first life even was (and again, that's on earth). We don't know if the same parameters apply on other planets as well as earth. There are so many assumptions present in your argument that I'm simply not willing to take.

Just look at Carl Sagan in the 60's that said there were only 2 parameters for a planet to have life on earth. Now there are around 220 parameters.

Source please.

Once again, if you would have acknowledged my explanation, 1 way or the other, that people bastardize religion for their personal gain. So, it's not religion in the purest sense is it?

Doesn't matter. Again, that's not the point of this argument. Your arguing whether people can truly have control over others, not whether that control is truly Christian or not.

Ah, but you made a choice rather than following what you saw as 'brainwashing.'

They brainwash you into following. They don't brainwash you once you start following. The is no actual choice present.

Altho, it is a choice to keep following an ideal when new info is available contrary to what they have been told.

Again, not really. It's a very special case where someone (like myself) will wake up to the utter nonsense of the bible/Quran etc. That's why atheists are a minority, because the brainwashing and manipulation is so effective. For instance, in the JW religion, they will disfellowshipping and shun you if you leave - even your family. Now again, it doesn't matter if it's Christlike or not, it's control.

Once again, that's an individual or group using quasi religion as the means to force others to their will. So, it's not control ..... it's forcing people to act like they are controlled, which in essence is being controled by force.

See above


I'm not going to excuse how religions have turned from Jesus' original message especially with the JW"s. But it is unfair to include all Christians in this group cuz there are many good people, churches & programs due to Christendom. & yes, I have had a personal experience with Westboro during a funeral that I was part of the Patriot Guards motorcycle escort group. Not cool at all.

I'm not saying all Christians are the same, but 99% of Christians simply don't do anything the bible actually says to do. Besides, again, Irrelevent because above.

'Yom' was just an example.
Not all of it was intended to be an actual portrayal of historical accuracy.

Says who?

Much is an allegory so as the message is conveyed, not the actual event such as the 1st six days of Genesis. Geez, God can use evolution to bring man to this point that had taken millions of years & billions of years after the big bang had taken place.

Well, that's completely wrong. The bible doesn't even come close to even mildly indicating that he used evolution to create life. Nonetheless, if you accept evolution as a Christian, then that completely wipes away the need for Christ's sacrifice, turns God into an undeniably malevolent being, and makes Christ and God a lier.

Re 'days' .... 'yom' meant many different amounts of time, so each time it was used, the time could have been different. So, your analogy of it re plants is wrong.

Wow. Just wow. You really need to become a lawyer someday. The point of dividing time into something measurable (like a "day") is to be consistant. If you don't have consistancy, then you don't have a measurement, and if you don't have that, there is no point in dividing it in the first place. And I find it highly dubious that the bible would flip flop on the meaning of the word "day" so much in one chapter. One verse it means "millions of years", next verse it means "one literal day".

Right, well I would question your assertion that Jesus reinforced the bible, but anyway.

I only was saying that Jesus used OT scripture when He spoke to the crowds & especially to the Jewish religious leaders, & how it applied to a particular event or something else. Therefore reinforced the bible by referr

I see the character limit cut you off...

Anyway, Jesus totally destroyed the "law" and "OT", in many unsubtle ways. He didn't reinforce it, he destroyed it entirely, contrary to what he or you said.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...