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A darker side of Jesus from the KJV Bible

davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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4/5/2016 5:31:56 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

This is because the truth is divisive with falsehood - or rather falsehood is divisive. Truth is hated by those who love falsehood, and falsehood is full of discord. In truth there is peace and tranquility. To live in Christ is to find peace because Jesus is the Truth.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/5/2016 5:37:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

You can save yourself and others a lot of time by going to the Jehovah's Witnesses website. They have a list of all the scriptural distortions and many of their own distortions in a neatly presented format.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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4/5/2016 5:59:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

it's because your idea of what to be at peace with isn't the same as God's. Jesus came to offer us God's peace between us and Him through and in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. in that is (scripture quotes or not) the peace referred to as the Prince of Peace. hence without the repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus as Son of God and your Lord and Savior you will not be at Peace with the Creator and Judge of all things. it's about the coming of God's kingdom that is at hand, but one must submit to the King of that Kingdom to be a Peace with it.

man (human nature) is full of wrath and a lying murderous heart, so with and in man there is no peace, only avoidance of war for fear of war. treaties if you will, that will eventually be broken by the same deviant human nature. therefore man is no judge of his Maker who just might treat man the same as man treats his fellow man. in the near future you think Hitler and friends made the world an evil place, with the toys men have to day, it's going to be a whole lot worse.

why do you think Israel sits in what looks like the eye of a hurricane? mankind doesn't want God's Kingdom to take possession of the world they now have.
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/5/2016 6:32:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 5:31:56 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

This is because the truth is divisive with falsehood - or rather falsehood is divisive. Truth is hated by those who love falsehood, and falsehood is full of discord. In truth there is peace and tranquility. To live in Christ is to find peace because Jesus is the Truth.

You and I understand Jesus differently. I am interested in learning the truth, and there are a few times in the KJV that he told the truth, but like he said, people don't believe him. He tells the truth about the Comforter.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Jesus spoke in parables a lot. Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: & Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: & Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

And Jesus spoke in darkness. Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

What does the Old Testament warn us not to do but Jesus does anyway? Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/5/2016 6:38:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 5:37:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

You can save yourself and others a lot of time by going to the Jehovah's Witnesses website. They have a list of all the scriptural distortions and many of their own distortions in a neatly presented format.

Thank you for your advice, but I am pointing out that Jesus may not be who most people think he is. I have to use the scriptures to do that because the scriptures themselves will reveal who he is. Remember in school when you read a book and then looked for the answers in the book, well that is what I'm doing.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/5/2016 7:05:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

Jesus was a grey Jedi. Like his father he created disaster and light
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/5/2016 7:12:20 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.
These particular passages have always puzzled me as well - and I don't have an answer.
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/5/2016 9:40:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 5:59:57 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

it's because your idea of what to be at peace with isn't the same as God's. Jesus came to offer us God's peace between us and Him through and in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. in that is (scripture quotes or not) the peace referred to as the Prince of Peace. hence without the repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus as Son of God and your Lord and Savior you will not be at Peace with the Creator and Judge of all things. it's about the coming of God's kingdom that is at hand, but one must submit to the King of that Kingdom to be a Peace with it.

man (human nature) is full of wrath and a lying murderous heart, so with and in man there is no peace, only avoidance of war for fear of war. treaties if you will, that will eventually be broken by the same deviant human nature. therefore man is no judge of his Maker who just might treat man the same as man treats his fellow man. in the near future you think Hitler and friends made the world an evil place, with the toys men have to day, it's going to be a whole lot worse.

why do you think Israel sits in what looks like the eye of a hurricane? mankind doesn't want God's Kingdom to take possession of the world they now have.

Wow, I didn't see any of that written in them scriptures. Do you speak in tongues too?
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/5/2016 9:49:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:12:20 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.
These particular passages have always puzzled me as well - and I don't have an answer.

I'm glad to see someone else has noticed these scriptures. There are a lot more puzzling scriptures. Like... Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.......What does hate not mean? I'd say it means you don't hate someone, you either like or love them, so replace "hate not" with "like or love" and you'll see no one can be Jesus' disciple unless they hate everyone in their family including themselves.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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4/5/2016 9:59:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace

Because:
Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, give I to you. Don't let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.
John 14:27

World don"t want to receive him, so world will not get his peace. But those who receive him and understand what he said can have it, even when they are persecuted by evil people.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/5/2016 10:08:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

He comes literally to divide God's cildren from Satan's children, dividing the wheat from the chaffe, the goats from the sheep.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/5/2016 11:00:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 9:49:36 PM, davis-hester wrote:
At 4/5/2016 7:12:20 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.
These particular passages have always puzzled me as well - and I don't have an answer.

I'm glad to see someone else has noticed these scriptures. There are a lot more puzzling scriptures. Like... Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.......What does hate not mean? I'd say it means you don't hate someone, you either like or love them, so replace "hate not" with "like or love" and you'll see no one can be Jesus' disciple unless they hate everyone in their family including themselves.

I study the Gospels very intently. I wish I had enough knowledge to understand the Greek translation of "hate." If it is defined as despised, it makes some sense - because you can despise someone's actions and still love them. I think it means to do God's will despite whether or not you have family support. It is the most difficult thing for me to do concerning my faith - because I love my family immeasurably. It's the only area of my faith than I'm iffy about, whether or not I'm living up to God's expectations.

I think maybe Jesus faced much adversity from his own family and that we should expect to have difficulty with family members who lack faith?

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 6 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.

2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

The cool thing about these passages is that it shows Jesus' human side. I think he is more than a mere man - but I don't think many people know his human side. Another teaching was God is good. Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/5/2016 11:09:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.
Yeah well these passages do imply to hate one's own family and just because I "get" most Gospel teachings - the teachings that tell us to hate anyone have me beffeled and thats' why I think it's a mis translation - or a portion of the translation is left out. You can't expect someone to accept everything with blind faith - if that were the case, why would Christ have said, "Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/6/2016 12:21:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 11:09:24 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.
Yeah well these passages do imply to hate one's own family and just because I "get" most Gospel teachings - the teachings that tell us to hate anyone have me beffeled and thats' why I think it's a mis translation - or a portion of the translation is left out. You can't expect someone to accept everything with blind faith - if that were the case, why would Christ have said, "Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

I had an ex Muslim explain what the stuff about being against mother and father. They said in Islam your family will turn on you if you apostate from the faith, so they haveto give up their family and have no choice but to turn from their family. In Jesus' time becoming a Christian as a Jew could warrant a similar response from your family.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/6/2016 12:26:06 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 12:21:40 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 11:09:24 PM, Emmarie wrote:
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.
Yeah well these passages do imply to hate one's own family and just because I "get" most Gospel teachings - the teachings that tell us to hate anyone have me beffeled and thats' why I think it's a mis translation - or a portion of the translation is left out. You can't expect someone to accept everything with blind faith - if that were the case, why would Christ have said, "Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

I had an ex Muslim explain what the stuff about being against mother and father. They said in Islam your family will turn on you if you apostate from the faith, so they haveto give up their family and have no choice but to turn from their family. In Jesus' time becoming a Christian as a Jew could warrant a similar response from your family.

That actually makes sense - thanks!
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/6/2016 1:40:50 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 7:05:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

Jesus was a grey Jedi. Like his father he created disaster and light

I'm not sure what you mean, please explain the "grey Jedi" and "father" part with a little more detail. I'm new here but are you trying to suggest Jesus is an alien from another planet?
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/6/2016 3:03:06 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 9:59:53 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace

Because:
Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, give I to you. Don't let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.
John 14:27

World don"t want to receive him, so world will not get his peace. But those who receive him and understand what he said can have it, even when they are persecuted by evil people.

The way Jesus is using the phrase, "Peace I leave you, my peace I give to you," sounds more like a farewell or departure greeting to his disciples.

How do you best define "evil" people? The way I would explain it using scripture would be to explain God's way and Satan's way, so we have a mutual good understanding straight from the KJV Bible.

God's way

Psalm 33:4 For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Light = Good = Truth

Satan aka the Devil's way

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Darkness = Evil (Bad) = Lies

I don't like lies, they are Satan's way. I prefer to follow God's way and be truthful to the best of my knowledge and learn the truth, preferably the kind that can be verified.
rextr05
Posts: 206
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4/6/2016 3:52:39 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

I see that you are of the literal read of the bible. Were you the same way when asked to give a detailed book report of ...... say Moby Dick or other great literary work in college? Giving said book report from the literal sense of what is read would have gotten you a failing grade & you know it.
So why would you think that Jesus would promote actual hate of ones family knowing what He taught of love?
I ask you ..... are you going to say honestly that Jesus came to divide families, & that was His only intention? If so, please explain why He would do such a thing?

Have you googled these verses to find out the contextual message (meaning), or have you just found this on some arbitrary internet site & thought you'd sound cool as asking questions that most biblical knowledgeable people would be able to refute your uneducated interpretation re these verses in a second? I haven't read all of the responses, altho what I have read, it seems that the audience is of the same literal reading crowd as you seem to be.

To be an expert on any subject, one must research both sides to be able to refute the opposition b4 making an assertion like you have. Evidently, you have the idea that you are the 1st person to bring this verse into question. Not so. Please do as I have suggested. That is to research what Jesus meant by this message & also while you're at it, find out why He used parables instead of laying everything out in an instruction manual for the lazy people.

I would appreciate your input re my challenge to you.
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/6/2016 3:55:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.

So, would you agree, Jesus is the "Sword?"

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

re"venge

1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. Archaic To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.
n.
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation: took revenge on her tormentors.
2. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness: He did it out of revenge.
3. a. An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat: After the loss, he demanded that he be given his revenge.
b. Something done in retaliation, especially a defeat of a rival who has been victorious.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

The Sword Prophecy

Ezekiel 21: 1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel, 3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked. 4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: 5 That all flesh may know that I the Lord have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more. 6 Sigh therefore, thou son of man, with the breaking of thy loins; and with bitterness sigh before their eyes. 7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord God. 8 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the Lord; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished: 10 It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree. 11 And he hath given it to be furbished, that it may be handled: this sword is sharpened, and it is furbished, to give it into the hand of the slayer. 12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh. 13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord God. 14 Thou therefore, son of man, prophesy, and smite thine hands together. and let the sword be doubled the third time, the sword of the slain: it is the sword of the great men that are slain, which entereth into their privy chambers. 15 I have set the point of the sword against all their gates, that their heart may faint, and their ruins be multiplied: ah! it is made bright, it is wrapped up for the slaughter. 16 Go thee one way or other, either on the right hand, or on the left, whithersoever thy face is set. 17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the Lord have said it. 18 The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying, 19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. 20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. 21 For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver. 22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. 23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken. 24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. 25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26 Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him. 28 And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering: 29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end. 30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity. 31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy. 32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the Lord have spoken it.

Leviticus 26:25 - And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

a"venge (The Free Dictionary)

1. To inflict a punishment or penalty in return for; revenge: avenge a murder.
2. To take vengeance on behalf of: avenged their wronged parents.

There are plenty more scriptures about the "sword," but I will stop here for now.
rextr05
Posts: 206
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4/6/2016 4:27:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:55:17 AM, davis-hester wrote:
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:

The Bible says that God has a seed. Satan has a seed. Christ came with the sword to divide God's from Satan's.

So, would you agree, Jesus is the "Sword?"

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

re"venge

1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. Archaic To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.
n.
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation: took revenge on her tormentors.
2. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness: He did it out of revenge.
3. a. An opportunity to retaliate, as by a return sports match after a defeat: After the loss, he demanded that he be given his revenge.
b. Something done in retaliation, especially a defeat of a rival who has been victorious.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

The Sword Prophecy

Ezekiel 21: 1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel, 3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked. 4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: 5 That all flesh may know that I the Lord have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more. 6 Sigh therefore, thou son of man, with the breaking of thy loins; and with bitterness sigh before their eyes. 7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord God. 8 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the Lord; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished: 10 It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree. 11 And he hath given it to be furbished, that it may be handled: this sword is sharpened, and it is furbished, to give it into the hand of the slayer. 12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh. 13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord God. 14 Thou therefore, son of man, prophesy, and smite thine hands together. and let the sword be doubled the third time, the sword of the slain: it is the sword of the great men that are slain, which entereth into their privy chambers. 15 I have set the point of the sword against all their gates, that their heart may faint, and their ruins be multiplied: ah! it is made bright, it is wrapped up for the slaughter. 16 Go thee one way or other, either on the right hand, or on the left, whithersoever thy face is set. 17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the Lord have said it. 18 The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying, 19 Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. 20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. 21 For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver. 22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem, to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. 23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken. 24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. 25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26 Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. 27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him. 28 And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering: 29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end. 30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity. 31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy. 32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the Lord have spoken it.


Leviticus 26:25 - And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.


a"venge (The Free Dictionary)

1. To inflict a punishment or penalty in return for; revenge: avenge a murder.
2. To take vengeance on behalf of: avenged their wronged parents.

There are plenty more scriptures about the "sword," but I will stop here for now.

It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable discourse proves what you say is worth listening to & therefore not just someone sho
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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4/6/2016 6:47:50 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 4:27:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:

It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

I hadn't realized that the Bible was not meant to be read standalone, that it requires companion pieces of Bible commentary and discourse to be understood. How did those poor souls in the 4th century manage when the Bible was first collated? It must have been gobbledygook to them, right?
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/6/2016 2:03:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:


It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

Yes, indeed it is easy to copy and paste if you know how. I am grateful for being able to do that, it saves me time in writing out everything. Have I declared a victory? No, why would I do so, I'm not even finished with what I'm trying to gradually bring out. And I kind of have to use the scriptures to do that, otherwise, most people aren't going to know what I'm discussing. And as far as explaining the scriptures, I've already said they speak for themselves and I do give the people here credit for being intelligent enough to understand them without me having to explain them. And if I did explain them, someone out there would probably find a reason to fault me for doing so.

If you want to stick around to see more, then you will see that I often compare the Old Testament to the New Testament.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 2: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
davis-hester
Posts: 12
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4/6/2016 3:17:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 6:47:50 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:27:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:

It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

I hadn't realized that the Bible was not meant to be read standalone, that it requires companion pieces of Bible commentary and discourse to be understood. How did those poor souls in the 4th century manage when the Bible was first collated? It must have been gobbledygook to them, right?

I like your answer dee-em. I don't see the point in owning a Bible if we can't read it to understand for ourselves, do you?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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4/6/2016 3:33:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/5/2016 9:40:26 PM, davis-hester wrote:
At 4/5/2016 5:59:57 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 4/5/2016 4:44:32 PM, davis-hester wrote:
Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references below.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My next question for you. Why did he come to divide people when he clearly understood the following would happen? See scripture below to learn what Jesus knew would happen.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. & Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Stay tuned, there are more scriptures to come from the Bible for you to investigate. The scriptures speak for themselves.

it's because your idea of what to be at peace with isn't the same as God's. Jesus came to offer us God's peace between us and Him through and in His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. in that is (scripture quotes or not) the peace referred to as the Prince of Peace. hence without the repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus as Son of God and your Lord and Savior you will not be at Peace with the Creator and Judge of all things. it's about the coming of God's kingdom that is at hand, but one must submit to the King of that Kingdom to be a Peace with it.

man (human nature) is full of wrath and a lying murderous heart, so with and in man there is no peace, only avoidance of war for fear of war. treaties if you will, that will eventually be broken by the same deviant human nature. therefore man is no judge of his Maker who just might treat man the same as man treats his fellow man. in the near future you think Hitler and friends made the world an evil place, with the toys men have to day, it's going to be a whole lot worse.

why do you think Israel sits in what looks like the eye of a hurricane? mankind doesn't want God's Kingdom to take possession of the world they now have.

Wow, I didn't see any of that written in them scriptures. Do you speak in tongues too?

well if you were a reader, rather than a grab a verse or two and hack it's true meaning out of the context of the rest of the bible, you would know what I've said is sound in reference to scripture. I'm not going to post the bible to you, you can read it for yourself.
rextr05
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4/6/2016 3:37:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 2:03:54 PM, davis-hester wrote:
At 4/5/2016 11:03:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:


It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

Yes, indeed it is easy to copy and paste if you know how. I am grateful for being able to do that, it saves me time in writing out everything. Have I declared a victory? No, why would I do so, I'm not even finished with what I'm trying to gradually bring out. And I kind of have to use the scriptures to do that, otherwise, most people aren't going to know what I'm discussing. And as far as explaining the scriptures, I've already said they speak for themselves and I do give the people here credit for being intelligent enough to understand them without me having to explain them. And if I did explain them, someone out there would probably find a reason to fault me for doing so.

If you want to stick around to see more, then you will see that I often compare the Old Testament to the New Testament.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Inspiration does not mean dictated by God as you know. That's why the 66 authors sound different from each other, They all wrote re their own specific experiences, culture & the audience they were addressing. A good example is the 4 Gospels. Same exact topic .... different versions.

2 Timothy 2: 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


This is what you are missing. The studying of scripture. You seem to miss the message just as the Pharisees had. Oh, they could quote all the verses from memory, but they used the verses out of context for their own purposes, & therefore missed the message entirely. (See the Moby Dick book report reference I had used earlier that you chose to ignore & reminded you of below).

Using scriptures as a means of explaining your point as you say you are gradually getting to, requires explanation of what the underlying meaning (message) of the specific verses you use. Let's use your introductory sentence of, "Why do people call Jesus the Prince of Peace when Jesus himself clearly states in the Bible (KJV) that he did not come to give peace on earth? See scripture references .... Luke 12:49"

Are you going to tell me, that you are going to convince us all that biblical scholars that have studied scripture all these years have gotten the context of the Luke passage wrong?
Please answer my past questions of, "Have you googled these verses to find out the contextual message (meaning), ..."

& also my earlier quote of, "I see that you are of the literal read of the bible. Were you the same way when asked to give a detailed book report of ...... say Moby Dick or other great literary work in college? Giving said book report from the literal sense of what is read would have gotten you a failing grade & you know it."

& also my earlier quote of, "To be an expert on any subject, one must research both sides to be able to refute the opposition b4 making an assertion like you have." Coming from one side as you do, indicates bias. & I'll give an applicable example of your bias with your topic verse of Luke that you have chosen. Your assertion that the verse must be taken literally seems to invalidate the rest of Jesus' teachings of love for God & ALL men, equality, strength, forgiveness, generosity, hard work, do not judge others, prayer, hypocrisy is wrong, repentance, values, grace ..... the list goes on. Hopefully you have noticed a theme. & one thing that's not included is what you are basing your assertion on ...... & that is to divide people.

Using all the verses in the bible that you deem applicable without explaining its contextual meaning is worthless. & since you have gotten your topic verse wrong, the rest of your applicable verses backing up whatever you say, is moot.
rextr05
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4/6/2016 3:50:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:17:41 PM, davis-hester wrote:
At 4/6/2016 6:47:50 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:27:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:

It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

I hadn't realized that the Bible was not meant to be read standalone, that it requires companion pieces of Bible commentary and discourse to be understood. How did those poor souls in the 4th century manage when the Bible was first collated? It must have been gobbledygook to them, right?

I like your answer dee-em. I don't see the point in owning a Bible if we can't read it to understand for ourselves, do you?

Hmm, then that seems to say all books written that one does not understand as a "standalone' are essentially worthless right? There should not be any books that teach us anything or have hidden meanings right? Then I guess that "Animal Farm" by George Orwell, is only about pigs & other animals right ..... nothing else. Or or "Lord of the Flies," or "The Catcher in the Rye" or "The Grapes of Wrath." If one only reads the words & cannot come away with the message of what the author attempts to convey, what's the point?
rextr05
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4/6/2016 3:57:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 6:47:50 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/6/2016 4:27:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:

It's so easy to copy & paste something & declare victory, but completely a diff story to explain why you say what you say. Is it sufficient for you to regurgitate verses without explaining them?
Any person with a computer & access to the internet can look things up on a biased site, but to know all sides of the contextual meaning & prove your point with knowledgeable disc

I hadn't realized that the Bible was not meant to be read standalone, that it requires companion pieces of Bible commentary and discourse to be understood. How did those poor souls in the 4th century manage when the Bible was first collated? It must have been gobbledygook to them, right?

See my message to Davis-Hester re your frivolous response. Ya see, that's why you are struck where you are & will probably stay unless you release your tunnel vision re all literary works ...... as you so profess here with your comment. You must miss so many worthwhile things in your life with only seeing what's in directly in front of you without seeing what's inside & peripheral of what you look at.
12_13
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4/6/2016 9:39:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 3:03:06 AM, davis-hester wrote:
...Psalm 33:4 For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Light = Good = Truth

Satan aka the Devil's way

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Darkness = Evil (Bad) = Lies

I don't like lies, they are Satan's way. I prefer to follow God's way and be truthful to the best of my knowledge and learn the truth, preferably the kind that can be verified.

I think you have quite good understanding about God"s way, I would add this to it:

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God, and knows God. He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:7-8

Nice if you live according to truth and love.