Total Posts:54|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Religion forum made me Agnostic.

Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 7:36:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Ya eejit,Deb, there is,was,never has been,
never will be any gods. Let any theist prove otherwise.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 7:53:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 7:36:22 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Ya eejit,Deb, there is,was,never has been,
never will be any gods. Let any theist prove otherwise.

I can't help it .
Pandit
Posts: 354
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 7:56:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 7:36:22 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Ya eejit,Deb, there is,was,never has been,
never will be any gods. Let any theist prove otherwise.

For Hindus Sun is God .
Sun Exists , Hence Proved >_< LOL
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 7:59:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

from what I can tell the God of Israel wouldn't want you to be come "religious". one can make a religion of getting coffee in the morning, or the constitution of the US some like to adopt as their own system of belief "religion".

it depends on what is understood as what a religion is, it's really a system of belief whereas most see it as a set of rules to condemn you by, making themselves superior in some respect in the eyes of those they condemn.

lets say that philosophy of freewill is true and infallible (for example) and those who subscribe to it are idiots. does that make freewill false because they are idiots, or are they just idiots no matter what they claim to believe?

in all honesty that is what you, and everyone else is dealing with, no matter what they believe or what they place their faith in, every day, every where. but what stands in that constant contest every day for thousands of years, might be the place to start. does the system of belief change, if it does it's probably bogus, does it constantly say something is true until that is proven false then it says something else is true, then they don't really know for sure. has it been the same and never changing other than what is believed becomes true and or fulfilled? that might be a place to look. look to the system of the believer's validity, not the morons that would say anything to win an argument.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:01:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 7:56:20 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 4/7/2016 7:36:22 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Ya eejit,Deb, there is,was,never has been,
never will be any gods. Let any theist prove otherwise.

For Hindus Sun is God .
Sun Exists , Hence Proved >_< LOL

Nice.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:14:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 7:59:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish.
it depends on what is understood as what a religion is, it's really a system of belief whereas most see it as a set of rules to condemn you by, making themselves superior in some respect in the eyes of those they condemn.

I realise it's a bit off topic, but what do you think a religion is, DP? This is a question sociologists wrestle with, and there are various views. How do you see it?

Further, what makes a religion benign and beneficial? What makes it detrimental? Does it matter if it's ignorant or in error if it's generally beneficial? If you could acquire those benefits some other way, does there need to be religion at all?

I realise I could open a thread to ask this, but I'm not interested in forum-wide opinion; I'm more interested in yours.

Please open a thread if you'd like to reply in detail. I'd be glad to read it.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.
Daedal
Posts: 157
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:31:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Being an agnostic is gambling. If there is a god, which you admit may be possible, then by not playing by the rules you'll get burned in Hell forever. The consequencies being so bad, you'd better sign for something in time to repent your sins and go tp the good place.

Note: the way theists break the rules all the time, I wonder how much they believe....
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:37:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.
Well, that makes sense. You're predicting your current rate of change.

But do you think I'm that kind of atheist, Db8? I don't feel that I am, and rather hope I'm not.

Y'know, based on what you're saying, I'm wondering whether you're not becoming agnostic so much as a secular humanist who disbelieves in gods. [https://www.secularhumanism.org...]
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 8:42:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
Really? Even the cruel, bloodthirsty ones from the Bronze Age, who devoured their adherents as readily as disbelievers?

You'd prostitute your moral sensibilities and wisdom and betray all your relationships and life commitments in an act of utter servility to the first sufficiently wondrous, overwhelming power that manifested?

And would you do that to a human dictator too, if you were unlucky enough to be born into a totalitarian regime?

Perhaps I was wrong in my guess of secular humanism. Are you perhaps a Skeptical TheoSlut? (TM)*

[* Okay, I just made that term up. ;)]
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:01:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:31:54 PM, Daedal wrote:
Being an agnostic is gambling. If there is a god, which you admit may be possible, then by not playing by the rules you'll get burned in Hell forever. The consequencies being so bad, you'd better sign for something in time to repent your sins and go tp the good place.

Not really. For you to go to hell there would need to be a hell, which isn't a guarantee in an Agnostic view. Being an anything but a true agnostic is gambling in my opinion. You are always betting for or against something, no matter what the heck you are.

Note: the way theists break the rules all the time, I wonder how much they believe....

I believe, and I feel natural guilt and honest fear when I sin. Its just kind of the way my life goes. Maybe I'll go to hell? I don't make that call....Unless I do.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:05:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:37:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.
Well, that makes sense. You're predicting your current rate of change.

But do you think I'm that kind of atheist, Db8? I don't feel that I am, and rather hope I'm not.

Y'know, based on what you're saying, I'm wondering whether you're not becoming agnostic so much as a secular humanist who disbelieves in gods. [https://www.secularhumanism.org...]

I think I need to join a few things together to explain the process I've been experiencing.
In saying all this I don't spend to much thought on what ever it is . I just need a platform to explain .
I don't feel right anymore saying god doesn't exsist, because I believe that can't be proven . Now this part will sound funny.
I don't belive god exists.
I'll continue in 5 minutes
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:13:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

I'll simplify what I believe and what many, many of the same faith believe if you've got a couple of minutes to watch.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:14:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
What we know and believe

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:17:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 9:14:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What we know and believe

http://youtu.be...

Would youtube go broke without bronto's ceaseless plugging?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:18:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 9:05:11 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:37:32 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.
Well, that makes sense. You're predicting your current rate of change.

But do you think I'm that kind of atheist, Db8? I don't feel that I am, and rather hope I'm not.

Y'know, based on what you're saying, I'm wondering whether you're not becoming agnostic so much as a secular humanist who disbelieves in gods. [https://www.secularhumanism.org...]

I think I need to join a few things together to explain the process I've been experiencing.
In saying all this I don't spend to much thought on what ever it is . I just need a platform to explain .
I don't feel right anymore saying god doesn't exsist, because I believe that can't be proven . Now this part will sound funny.
I don't belive god exists.
I'll continue in 5 minutes

This sounds right when I read it .

Not inclined towards belief or a particular form of religious belief .
An agnostic is one who believes it is impossible to know anything about god or about the creation of the universe, and reframes from comment to any religious doctrine.

That's me right there.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:21:10 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 9:17:05 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/7/2016 9:14:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What we know and believe

http://youtu.be...

Would youtube go broke without bronto's ceaseless plugging?

Yes. Did you enjoy the clip?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:23:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 9:21:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/7/2016 9:17:05 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/7/2016 9:14:14 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What we know and believe

http://youtu.be...

Would youtube go broke without bronto's ceaseless plugging?

Yes. Did you enjoy the clip?

As with all your links, totally ignored. If you have a point to make, make it.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:26:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:14:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 7:59:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish.
it depends on what is understood as what a religion is, it's really a system of belief whereas most see it as a set of rules to condemn you by, making themselves superior in some respect in the eyes of those they condemn.

I realise it's a bit off topic, but what do you think a religion is, DP? This is a question sociologists wrestle with, and there are various views. How do you see it?

Further, what makes a religion benign and beneficial? What makes it detrimental? Does it matter if it's ignorant or in error if it's generally beneficial? If you could acquire those benefits some other way, does there need to be religion at all?

I realise I could open a thread to ask this, but I'm not interested in forum-wide opinion; I'm more interested in yours.

Please open a thread if you'd like to reply in detail. I'd be glad to read it.

Thanks RuvDraba I must go to work back in 6 hours. Your not whimsical .
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:29:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

On this post you said you had been a believer [http://www.debate.org...]
on this thread you say you've been an atheist for 20 years. Sounds like you've been agnostic for quite awhile?
janesix
Posts: 3,437
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:40:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
I find religious groups with gods so foolish. I think they need to be yelled at daily so they hopefully snap out of it. I wish I could stay a Atheist, but my head won't let me. I am not at all comfortable being Agnostic. But yet again my head knows it's the right platform.
I blame all religions with Gods for inventing the Atheism platform thousands of years ago.

I think there may be a few atheists in the forums with this problem .
That's Atheist knowing the true position is agnostic, and are in fact agnostic. But don't for 1 second believe in God. So as from today the 8th of April 2016. I'm a boring old Agnostic. A fence sitter if you will. This sucks. To take some good out of this , I must try more to disprove , God.
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

There's nothing wrong with having an open mind and being open to different possibilities.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 9:46:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 8:42:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
Really? Even the cruel, bloodthirsty ones from the Bronze Age, who devoured their adherents as readily as disbelievers?

You'd prostitute your moral sensibilities and wisdom and betray all your relationships and life commitments in an act of utter servility to the first sufficiently wondrous, overwhelming power that manifested?

And would you do that to a human dictator too, if you were unlucky enough to be born into a totalitarian regime?

Perhaps I was wrong in my guess of secular humanism. Are you perhaps a Skeptical TheoSlut? (TM)*

[* Okay, I just made that term up. ;)]

Why do you assume someone would automatically be servile just because they believed in a God?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 10:22:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 9:46:46 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:42:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
Really? Even the cruel, bloodthirsty ones from the Bronze Age, who devoured their adherents as readily as disbelievers?

You'd prostitute your moral sensibilities and wisdom and betray all your relationships and life commitments in an act of utter servility to the first sufficiently wondrous, overwhelming power that manifested?

And would you do that to a human dictator too, if you were unlucky enough to be born into a totalitarian regime?

Perhaps I was wrong in my guess of secular humanism. Are you perhaps a Skeptical TheoSlut? (TM)*

[* Okay, I just made that term up. ;)]

Why do you assume someone would automatically be servile just because they believed in a God?

Firstly, because if it's not worshipped, revered and propitiated, it's hard to call it a god. The very word 'god' comes from proto Indo-European ghut meaning 'that which is invoked'. [http://www.etymonline.com...]

Further, among the Abrahamic, Hindu and Chinese traditions comprising around 75% of all faith, and about 98%+ of faiths with gods, they're frequently addressed as 'Lord', so they're not just powers, they're metaphysical bosses. So sociologically if you believe in gods, you believe in being bossed around by metaphysical powers who can smash you if you don't.

Finally, anything called 'supreme being' pretty much gets all the authority, leaving none for anyone else. 'Supreme' is a statement both of absolute power and absolute moral authority. If you believed in a 'supreme being' and were not grovellingly servile toward its every whim, one would wonder what the heck you thought 'supreme' meant. The very act of preserving your autonomy and doing something other than what you're told means you think it's not supreme.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 10:48:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 10:22:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 9:46:46 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:42:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
Really? Even the cruel, bloodthirsty ones from the Bronze Age, who devoured their adherents as readily as disbelievers?

You'd prostitute your moral sensibilities and wisdom and betray all your relationships and life commitments in an act of utter servility to the first sufficiently wondrous, overwhelming power that manifested?

And would you do that to a human dictator too, if you were unlucky enough to be born into a totalitarian regime?

Perhaps I was wrong in my guess of secular humanism. Are you perhaps a Skeptical TheoSlut? (TM)*

[* Okay, I just made that term up. ;)]

Why do you assume someone would automatically be servile just because they believed in a God?

Firstly, because if it's not worshipped, revered and propitiated, it's hard to call it a god. The very word 'god' comes from proto Indo-European ghut meaning 'that which is invoked'. [http://www.etymonline.com...]

Further, among the Abrahamic, Hindu and Chinese traditions comprising around 75% of all faith, and about 98%+ of faiths with gods, they're frequently addressed as 'Lord', so they're not just powers, they're metaphysical bosses. So sociologically if you believe in gods, you believe in being bossed around by metaphysical powers who can smash you if you don't.

Finally, anything called 'supreme being' pretty much gets all the authority, leaving none for anyone else. 'Supreme' is a statement both of absolute power and absolute moral authority. If you believed in a 'supreme being' and were not grovellingly servile toward its every whim, one would wonder what the heck you thought 'supreme' meant. The very act of preserving your autonomy and doing something other than what you're told means you think it's not supreme.

I believe in a supreme being, and I don't feel servile to it in any way. I don't even like it, let alone grovel to it.

I can't be the only one.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2016 11:03:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 10:48:47 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/7/2016 10:22:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 9:46:46 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:42:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:32:42 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:30:41 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:24:44 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:19:12 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/7/2016 8:04:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/7/2016 6:24:47 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
20 ish years a Atheist. Was wiped away in 6 months of reading and posting on this forum.
It's good to question your beliefs, Db8.

If you feel you were atheistic for bad reasons, and have now become agnostic for better ones, I'm glad for you.

I went the other way, though not in consequence of anything said on this forum.

However, what I find curious is this:
To any Atheists who kind of knows me in the forums as I know all of you . I swear I will never become religious with a god.

Surely, that's not something any agnostic can promise? Isn't it true that the very position of agnosticism demands you acknowledge the possibility of religious veracity, given sufficient evidence?

Or if you can confidently reject that possibility, then why do you call that position agnosticism?

I thought about that part when I posted it but I'm going on the unknowable . In the time I have left living god won't be proven or dismissed.

Mmm. That's not so much a promise as an expectation then, based on the universe behaving consistently throughout your life...

But if you can't say why it behaves consistently, then you cannot really say for how long it may do so.

If gravity (say) stopped working as expected tomorrow, might your views on religion change?

Mine wouldn't, even if the dead started rising from their graves. I'd find that funny beyond belief -- and a bit appalling -- but it would not lead me to worship.

My 20 plus years of atheism. Making religious groups and pretty much laughing in their face Can't disappear over night. All I want is to be a Atheist.

If any god showed himself to me I would be that religion in a heartbeat.
Really? Even the cruel, bloodthirsty ones from the Bronze Age, who devoured their adherents as readily as disbelievers?

You'd prostitute your moral sensibilities and wisdom and betray all your relationships and life commitments in an act of utter servility to the first sufficiently wondrous, overwhelming power that manifested?

And would you do that to a human dictator too, if you were unlucky enough to be born into a totalitarian regime?

Perhaps I was wrong in my guess of secular humanism. Are you perhaps a Skeptical TheoSlut? (TM)*

[* Okay, I just made that term up. ;)]

Why do you assume someone would automatically be servile just because they believed in a God?

Firstly, because if it's not worshipped, revered and propitiated, it's hard to call it a god. The very word 'god' comes from proto Indo-European ghut meaning 'that which is invoked'. [http://www.etymonline.com...]

Further, among the Abrahamic, Hindu and Chinese traditions comprising around 75% of all faith, and about 98%+ of faiths with gods, they're frequently addressed as 'Lord', so they're not just powers, they're metaphysical bosses. So sociologically if you believe in gods, you believe in being bossed around by metaphysical powers who can smash you if you don't.

Finally, anything called 'supreme being' pretty much gets all the authority, leaving none for anyone else. 'Supreme' is a statement both of absolute power and absolute moral authority. If you believed in a 'supreme being' and were not grovellingly servile toward its every whim, one would wonder what the heck you thought 'supreme' meant. The very act of preserving your autonomy and doing something other than what you're told means you think it's not supreme.

I believe in a supreme being, and I don't feel servile to it in any way. I don't even like it, let alone grovel to it.

I can't be the only one.

It does look like a unique problem.