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Atheists believe in mythology

RuvDraba
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4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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4/15/2016 3:08:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

That's actually quite interesting. I wonder how many people who believes in some kind of superstition. Even light superstition included, such as a belief in fate.
PureX
Posts: 1,533
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4/15/2016 3:40:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Human beings naturally tend to seek the meaning and value within the circumstances of their own existence. Many do this through the concept of deity, but many also choose to do it through less anthropomorphic concepts, like fate, or flow, or some other unidentified unifying causative force. Nearly every human has some sense of this invisible causation, it seems, however they conceive of it.

Which leads to some very interesting questions, I think.
dhardage
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4/15/2016 4:56:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 3:40:33 PM, PureX wrote:
Human beings naturally tend to seek the meaning and value within the circumstances of their own existence. Many do this through the concept of deity, but many also choose to do it through less anthropomorphic concepts, like fate, or flow, or some other unidentified unifying causative force. Nearly every human has some sense of this invisible causation, it seems, however they conceive of it.

Which leads to some very interesting questions, I think.

Humans also seem have a collective belief in justice and the concepts of religion where the bad guy gets it in the end are also quite attractive. This can also account for the concept of karma and reincarnation.
Jovian
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4/15/2016 4:58:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 4:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2016 3:40:33 PM, PureX wrote:
Human beings naturally tend to seek the meaning and value within the circumstances of their own existence. Many do this through the concept of deity, but many also choose to do it through less anthropomorphic concepts, like fate, or flow, or some other unidentified unifying causative force. Nearly every human has some sense of this invisible causation, it seems, however they conceive of it.

Which leads to some very interesting questions, I think.

Humans also seem have a collective belief in justice and the concepts of religion where the bad guy gets it in the end are also quite attractive. This can also account for the concept of karma and reincarnation.

Very interesting things we talk about here. I will make the guess that all these natural superstitions actually were the foundation stone of all religions we see today.
dhardage
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4/15/2016 5:04:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 4:58:50 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 4/15/2016 4:56:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2016 3:40:33 PM, PureX wrote:
Human beings naturally tend to seek the meaning and value within the circumstances of their own existence. Many do this through the concept of deity, but many also choose to do it through less anthropomorphic concepts, like fate, or flow, or some other unidentified unifying causative force. Nearly every human has some sense of this invisible causation, it seems, however they conceive of it.

Which leads to some very interesting questions, I think.

Humans also seem have a collective belief in justice and the concepts of religion where the bad guy gets it in the end are also quite attractive. This can also account for the concept of karma and reincarnation.

Very interesting things we talk about here. I will make the guess that all these natural superstitions actually were the foundation stone of all religions we see today.

Religion springs from the fear of what primitive people did not understand. It was and remains an attempt to exert, or appear to exert, control on that which is intrinsically uncontrollable. Shamans and such pretended to be able to influence things with their chants, dances, rituals, etc. and they wielded great power. Extreme examples are the Aztecs, a tribe that sacrificed literally thousands of their own people and captives of other tribes to propitiate their gods and insure that things we as the chief wanted. Unfortunately that did not save them from being rendered extinct.
RuvDraba
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4/15/2016 8:27:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 3:08:58 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

That's actually quite interesting. I wonder how many people who believes in some kind of superstition. Even light superstition included, such as a belief in fate.

Beyond superstition, 'magical thinking' (on which superstition is built) occurs in almost everyone [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]. So when does magical belief become superstition or religion, and how does it arise?

in the November 2013 edition of Cognition is an interesting paper showing how religion and superstition emerge cognitively: [http://www.sciencedirect.com...]. Studying two samples of around 500 and 900 subjects, the study tries to find which known cognitive tendencies produce what, using the tendencies:
Mentalising: thinking about how minds -- your own or others' -- think. This is an error-prone process, even in our own minds.
Mind body dualism: treating the mind as separate from the body
Teleological thinking: ascribing purpose to objects and incidents
Anthropomorphism: attributing human motives to the non-human
Cultural religious exposure: self-explanatory

There had previously been known to be a relationship between mentalising and such beliefs, but the study produced: a path model suggesting that mentalizing comes first, which leads to dualism and teleology, which in turn lead to religious, paranormal, and life's-purpose beliefs In summary:

[W]e have found that individual differences in mentalizing tendencies encouraged mind-body dualism, teleology, and anthropomorphism (albeit, weakly); dualism, and to a lesser extent teleology in turn led to belief in God, belief in paranormal events, and belief in life having an underlying and possibly transcendental purpose. ... Anthropomorphic tendencies failed to predict belief in God, but predicted paranormal belief, and to a much lesser extent, belief that life has a purpose.

This study is reported in Psychology Today here: [https://www.psychologytoday.com...]. As the report points out:
The proportion of religious adherents in a respondent"s county also predicted belief in God, but not dualism or teleology, indicating that culture and cognitive biases each promote religiosity on their own, although they probably interact. Local church attendance actually appeared to reduce anthropomorphism. The researchers speculate that Christianity"s history of denouncing animism as idolatry may suppress anthropomorphism in some people.

The takeaway point is that mentalising -- a natural human tendency to think about how minds work -- is likely to produce a path to magical thinking one way or another.
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:30:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

Do you believe Jupiter, death, and chaos are real things? Yes you do. Jupiter was a god. Death is the grim reaper with a sickle and a skeleton body, and chaos was the entity that the Roman gods came forth from. You believe in mythology.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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janesix
Posts: 3,491
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4/15/2016 8:36:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:30:50 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

Do you believe Jupiter, death, and chaos are real things? Yes you do. Jupiter was a god. Death is the grim reaper with a sickle and a skeleton body, and chaos was the entity that the Roman gods came forth from. You believe in mythology.

People don't believe those things anymore, bronto. But of course you know that. No one believes that the planet Jupiter is a God.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/15/2016 8:42:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:30:50 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

Do you believe Jupiter, death, and chaos are real things? Yes you do. Jupiter was a god. Death is the grim reaper with a sickle and a skeleton body, and chaos was the entity that the Roman gods came forth from. You believe in mythology.

Brontio, as you may know the one word can mean multiple things, and people reuse words for new meanings.

Jupiter is the name of a planet, and also be the name of an ancient Roman god. Death is from the Old Saxon word doth and just means dying. You have to capitalise it to turn it into an anthropomorphism. Chaos is just a synonym for disorder or entropy, and is also the name for the primal state of everything in ancient Greek creation myth.

But you'd know that words can have multiple meanings, because religions use 'faith' completely differently to the way it is normally used in human affairs. In normal use, faith generally means trusting testable things you believe trustworthy. But In religion, faith means putting complete confidence in ideas you've never seen and which cannot be tested at all -- which in normal usage has another synonym: gullibility.
PureX
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4/15/2016 9:40:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 5:04:42 PM, dhardage wrote:

Religion springs from the fear of what primitive people did not understand. It was and remains an attempt to exert, or appear to exert, control on that which is intrinsically uncontrollable. Shamans and such pretended to be able to influence things with their chants, dances, rituals, etc. and they wielded great power. Extreme examples are the Aztecs, a tribe that sacrificed literally thousands of their own people and captives of other tribes to propitiate their gods and insure that things we as the chief wanted. Unfortunately that did not save them from being rendered extinct.

I agree, but not entirely. I think religion springs as much from an innate sense and/or need of some invisible value, and purpose, within our experience of being, as it springs from our fear of the unknown, and our desire to control it.

And the evidence of this is that science has alleviated a significant degree of our fear of the unknown, and of our need to imagine that we can control it (through our imagined obedience to the gods) and yet religions have not waned, nor become outmoded, at all, really. And I think the reason is because we also need to find value and purpose within the circumstances of our existence, and science has done nothing to mitigate nor satiate that need. So many of us continue to look to 'the gods' to fulfill it.
Jovian
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4/16/2016 7:49:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:30:50 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 5:56:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I didn't read your link, Bronty, because you didn't summarise, but it's true: atheists may believe in mythology, magic, superstition.

Humans generally do, which is yet more evidence that specific mythological beliefs -- like ghosts or gods -- are products of sociopsychology, and not reliable evidence of any kind.

On the other hand, I know you enjoy calling any belief you don't like but can't refute mythology, so I regret that I'm disinclined to read your clickbait and respond to it directly without at least a summary.

Do you believe Jupiter, death, and chaos are real things? Yes you do. Jupiter was a god. Death is the grim reaper with a sickle and a skeleton body, and chaos was the entity that the Roman gods came forth from. You believe in mythology.

Do you believe God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are real things? Yes you do. God is the alleged king of the universe, Jesus is his son and the Holy Spirit is God's tool somehow. You believe in mythology.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/18/2016 1:50:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 9:40:02 PM, PureX wrote:
At 4/15/2016 5:04:42 PM, dhardage wrote:

Religion springs from the fear of what primitive people did not understand. It was and remains an attempt to exert, or appear to exert, control on that which is intrinsically uncontrollable. Shamans and such pretended to be able to influence things with their chants, dances, rituals, etc. and they wielded great power. Extreme examples are the Aztecs, a tribe that sacrificed literally thousands of their own people and captives of other tribes to propitiate their gods and insure that things we as the chief wanted. Unfortunately that did not save them from being rendered extinct.

I agree, but not entirely. I think religion springs as much from an innate sense and/or need of some invisible value, and purpose, within our experience of being, as it springs from our fear of the unknown, and our desire to control it.

And the evidence of this is that science has alleviated a significant degree of our fear of the unknown, and of our need to imagine that we can control it (through our imagined obedience to the gods) and yet religions have not waned, nor become outmoded, at all, really. And I think the reason is because we also need to find value and purpose within the circumstances of our existence, and science has done nothing to mitigate nor satiate that need. So many of us continue to look to 'the gods' to fulfill it.

What gives you the impression that we are in control of things? Or that we feel we are? We still can't control the weather, the actions of others in power or those around us. We still get sick, have accidents, lose loved ones under circumstances we cannot find reason for. We want control of everything and have control of very little, hence the desire for some system that claims to control everything, if you are faithful and ask just right.
MadCornishBiker
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4/18/2016 1:55:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 1:37:16 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

So do the vast majority of those who wish to be seen as Christian, since the majority believe in the myth of the Trinity.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/18/2016 4:44:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 1:55:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 1:37:16 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

So do the vast majority of those who wish to be seen as Christian, since the majority believe in the myth of the Trinity.

JW's used to use the King James Version.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/19/2016 9:46:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 4:44:56 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 1:55:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 1:37:16 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

So do the vast majority of those who wish to be seen as Christian, since the majority believe in the myth of the Trinity.

JW's used to use the King James Version.

As I have shown you, they still do.

Why not? they can still prove everything they teach, and disprove what you teach, using it, and it is easy to prove how it has been altered.

They will, quite rightly, use even Satan's weapons to defeat him, as Jehovah and Christ often have done.

All doctored translations are Satan's weapons, created under Satan's influence to mislead as many as possible, just as prophecy foretold would happen after the death of the last Apostle.

It appears that not only have you fallen for it but are determined to lead others after you into the same destruction that awaits all who speak against truth as you do. Wake up before its too late.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 11:21:24 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Each day, apparently, brontoraptor faces the mirror and asks himself the ponderous question: what thread can I come up with to adequately reflect my puerile ignorance on Atheism?

He's been succeeding for a while now.