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Father and son, or parts of a Trinity?

MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.
SpiritandTruth
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4/15/2016 1:42:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
It depends on how you understand it. Are you talking about 3 Gods? Are you talking about the singular God being split into 3 faces?

No, this is what I think it really means...

Sincerity of faith and charity(the holy spirit) is how you love God(The father) through man(the son).

But it's called a mystery for a reason.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 2:54:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 1:42:53 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
It depends on how you understand it. Are you talking about 3 Gods? Are you talking about the singular God being split into 3 faces?

You mean as n pagan images?

That is not the "Christian" trinity anyway, that is a corruption of a corruption. The "Christian" trinity is very specific and carefully defined:

https://www.churchofengland.org...

WHOSOEVER will be saved: before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholick Faith.
Which Faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled: without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholick Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
Neither confounding the Persons: nor dividing the Substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son: and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son: and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate: and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible: and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal: and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals: but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated: but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty: and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties: but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God: and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods: but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord: and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords: but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity: to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
So are we forbidden by the Catholick Religion: to say there be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons: one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other: none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together: and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid: the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved: must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation: that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right Faith is that we believe and confess: that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man;
God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds: and Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God, and Perfect Man: of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead: and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.
Who although he be God and Man: yet he is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh: but by taking of the Manhood into God;
One altogether, not by confusion of Substance: but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man: so God and Man is one Christ.
Who suffered for our salvation: descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty: from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies: and shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting: and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholick Faith: which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son: and to the Holy Ghost;
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be: world without end. Amen.


No, this is what I think it really means...

Sincerity of faith and charity(the holy spirit) is how you love God(The father) through man(the son).

But it's called a mystery for a reason.

Yes, it is a mystery how anyone who has more than a nodding acquaintance with the Bible can believe it.

You don;t believe John 4:23-24 then?

23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth."

Jehovah is not looking for those who are sincere, he is looking for those who are only interested in truth.

And there can be only one truth.

Sincerity is all very well if you are sincerely right, but according to that not if you are sincerely wrong.

There is no mystery about God, he invites us to know him and to draw close to him, and his son repeated that invitation making it a condition of our being granted eternal life John 17:3 "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

That rules out any possibility of mystery.

Sorry, but like I have said many times before, there is no way the Trinity can be supported from scripture, and those scriptures which have been changed to support it reveal themselves by the contradictions they cause, let alone by the lack of reason in their wording. Even John 1:1 stands out, so the documentary evidence that it has been altered is unnecessary, but available, and very clear.

The simple answer is that the Trinity teaching stands out as false just like a piece of a jigsaw that has got into the wrong box.
SpiritandTruth
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4/15/2016 3:42:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
The fact is, we all fall short of the Truth.

However, there is a path of correction. Yes, worship the father in spirit and truth. Do you not see my username? It's in my signature even.

Sincerity of faith and charity. This is the path of correction.

Another way of saying the same thing is..

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love others as you love yourself.

It's what sums up the law and the prophets.

Oh yeah, and it's very important to understand that God is One.

Do you really have a problem with what I'm saying, or is this a misunderstanding?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 4:41:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 3:42:51 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The fact is, we all fall short of the Truth.

However, there is a path of correction. Yes, worship the father in spirit and truth. Do you not see my username? It's in my signature even.

Yes I see it, but that doesn't mean you follow it.

Why?

because if you did you would be a JW, because as I well now from experience, that is where the spirit leads.

Simple as.

Yes we all fall short of the truth at times, as the JWs have, but they are Jehovah's channel through his son, for truth to be revealed.

This is not a time for individuals, it is a time for an organised, earth wide work warning all about what is coming and offering the the only way out that exists, that cramped road Jesus mentioned Matthew 7:13-14.

The day draws ever nearer.


Sincerity of faith and charity. This is the path of correction.

Not according to John 4:23-24.

According to that truth is the only way, and the rest follows on from that.

What do you have faith in?

Do you have faith that Jehovah's original plan will be brought back on course?

Do you even know what that is?


Another way of saying the same thing is..

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love others as you love yourself.

Yes, and for that you have to know God. no-one can truly love what they do not know.

If you believe in the trinity, or any corruption thereof, you do not know God or his son. John 17:3.


It's what sums up the law and the prophets.

No, it is what will fulfil then when we are capable of doing both perfectly.

Only when prophecy has run it's course can it be fulfilled, and it has not yet run it's course. We are on the last 1,000 year leg of it before Revelation 20-22 can be fulfilled, and we are soon to enter the final phase which will lead up to that.

That will be the Perfect Day.


Oh yeah, and it's very important to understand that God is One.

Very much so, but the Trinity denies that.

Most Trinitarians also deny that there are many gods, and yet the Bible calls Jehovah's only begotten son a god, it calls the Angels gods, even some men gods, and that is without getting into the realms of false gods.

In the case of Jehovah's only begotten son, and the Angels all being a god means is that they are created from the same substance as Jehovah himself. Spirit.



Do you really have a problem with what I'm saying, or is this a misunderstanding?

I don't have any problem with it, but Christ and Jehovah will if you keep saying it and do not learn.
SpiritandTruth
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4/15/2016 6:14:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'm going to be blunt here, I don't think you are understanding me, and I'm not really sure how to speak to that.

I do think that I am in fundamental disagreement with you on one thing(that is if I understand you correctly). I do not believe that it is necessary for me to belong to a specific denomination. I am a witness of God, and I testify God everyday almost ceaselessly. I am a missionary, and I am very secure in my faith. I belong to the church that is universal and without division. I commune with saints, and I know them by their fruit. I do not believe in human institutions, I listen to God, and God shows me the way.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 6:27:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 6:14:22 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
I'm going to be blunt here, I don't think you are understanding me, and I'm not really sure how to speak to that.

I do think that I am in fundamental disagreement with you on one thing(that is if I understand you correctly). I do not believe that it is necessary for me to belong to a specific denomination. I am a witness of God, and I testify God everyday almost ceaselessly. I am a missionary, and I am very secure in my faith. I belong to the church that is universal and without division. I commune with saints, and I know them by their fruit. I do not believe in human institutions, I listen to God, and God shows me the way.

I like blunt.

Well you are welcome to your beliefs obviously, but do you teach truth?

Which saints do you commune with? Because Christ is our only intermediary and our only contact point.

Do you identify the God you are bearing Witness to by name so that others know who you mean?

Do you use the right name?

Are you one 100% that your guidance comes from Jehovah through his son?

Or might it have come from Satan. 1 John 4:1.

Think carefully, very carefully, your eternal life relies on it.
SpiritandTruth
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4/15/2016 6:40:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Look, practically the only thing I preach is The Truth.

I don't attach things to the Truth, the Truth stands on it's own. I don't speak about the Truth, I speak The Truth.

If I preach anything else, it's the proper attitude(beattitude! hah!) or path to find the Truth yourself.

I do not preach gnosticism. I tell people that if they are sincere in their faith, are charitable with their love, and struggle for heart purification, this is how you worship God in spirit and truth. If you seek, you will find. Ask, and it will be given. Knock, and the door will be opened.

I preach the gospel, and that is what is worth teaching. So many churches preach anything but the gospel. You will get kicked out of churches for preaching the gospel! However, that is what the mission is.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 7:03:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 6:40:17 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Look, practically the only thing I preach is The Truth.

I don't attach things to the Truth, the Truth stands on it's own. I don't speak about the Truth, I speak The Truth.

Unfortunately not, though I can tell you believe that you are.


If I preach anything else, it's the proper attitude(beattitude! hah!) or path to find the Truth yourself.

But you don't teach that either because the only path to the truth is through the JWs. They are the ones Jehovah has drawn to his son's side.


I do not preach gnosticism. I tell people that if they are sincere in their faith, are charitable with their love, and struggle for heart purification, this is how you worship God in spirit and truth. If you seek, you will find. Ask, and it will be given. Knock, and the door will be opened.

Then you mislead them because they have to be sincere in the truth, nothing else. Many are sincerely wrong.

That is true, but only if you knock on the right door, or ask the right questions.


I preach the gospel, and that is what is worth teaching. So many churches preach anything but the gospel. You will get kicked out of churches for preaching the gospel! However, that is what the mission is.

But that is the point, you do not teach the Gospel.

Nor do you preach the Good News (Gospel) of the Kingdom largely because you do not appear to know what it is.

Whilst I am unaware of exactly what you do teach, what little I have seen so far is wrong. simple as.

You preach sincerity despite the fact that you can be as sincerely wrong as you can right, and wrong is dead.

Do you teach love of Jehovah as Christ did? I don't get that impression.

You say you commune with the saints and yet the saints are not in the chain of communication which is solely through Christ to Jehovah and back.

If you think you are communing with the saints you are being conned by Satan, just as those who think the dead can communicate with us are, since the dead cannot communicate with any being completely inactive.

Truth is important, and according to Christ it is absolutely vital, and there is only one truth.

Do you preach Jehovah's plan for the earth, which has never changed and will succeed eventually?

Do you preach Jehovah's plan for mankind which has never changed and will succeed eventually?

Do you even know what they are?

Or when they will succeed?
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 7:53:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

I do understand it. I also know we were warned of false religions that would spring up denying the divinity of Christ. Seducing spirits, false prophets, false teachers, etc. Keep in mind, my version was being preached unto salvation century after century after century. And then? JW sprung up from out of nowhere teaching a different doctrine, branching off, and becoming a completely different religion. That is a bigtime clue. Let's examine Jesus for a minute.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 7:54:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
"And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!"
(Phillipians 2:8)

"Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
(John 20:28)

*

"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
(John 8:58)

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
(Exodus 3:14)

Elijah went tount Horab to the exact same place as Moses had talked to God. And?

*

"Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus."
(Matthew 17:3)

*

"They saw that his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the LORD."
(Exodus 34:35)

"As the men watched, Jesus' appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light."
(Matthew 17:2)

*

"As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him."
Acts 9:3

"And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"
(Acts 9:4)

"Who are you, lord?" Saul asked. And the voice replied, "I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting!"
(Acts 9:5)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 7:56:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Here are 24 translations of John 1:1 stating Jesus is God.

http://biblehub.com...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:10:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Think about it MCB. Your cult did not even exist while century after century passed with the message Christianity preaches being the only message. And then some guy comes offering a completely different religion. And then there is a cabinet of men to instruct you what to believe, changing the rules year after year as they go along! That's about as obviously a cult as you can get. What was God doing for the better part of 2,000 years. Enjoying the fruit of Christianity being lost in the dark for 2 millenia? That doesn't even make any sense.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:14:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

And explain this one away while you are at it. Even the Jews themselves confirm this is exactly what it says, and they are not Christians.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:15:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(Isaiah 9:6)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/15/2016 8:24:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.

I do? You are the one who says He cannot be in multiple places as 2 distinct persons and says He "does not transcend time"? I think He can be 12 unicorns and a peacock all at once if He wants to. It is you who underestimates Him.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/15/2016 8:26:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.

Transcending time and being multiple places at once is not magic. It's power and knowledge of "how".
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/15/2016 8:27:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Explain to us Isaiah 9:6 and what the Jewish prophet meant.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/15/2016 8:30:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:15:22 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(Isaiah 9:6)

Have you ever thought about that verse?

The first thing to note is that whilst Isaiah does indeed say that Christ will be called these things he doesn't say when it will happen, or even if they will all happen at the same time.

Why Mighty God and not Almighty God as is always said of his Father?

Why Prince of Peace, not King of Peace?

Everlasting father is simple. He was used by his father in the creation of everyone and everything (Colossians 1:13-16)

Wonderful Counsellor fits because he was and is Jehovah's spokesman, and whilst on earth, and since, he was, and continues to be, a superb teacher who gives only the best guidance handed down to him by his father

OK that's the most obvious bit:

Mighty God? Well strictly speaking it should be Mighty god since he is a god (as are the angels he helped create). In the sense it is used in the case of the Word, Jehovah's only begotten son, and the Angels, it simply means that they are spirit beings made of the same substance as Jehovah.

Prince of Peace? How can that be when there is no real peace? The answer is simpler than it appears. After the final test, when Satan and all who chose to follow him are destroyed, Christ hands the Kingdom back to his father, therefore he is now a Prince, and finally peace reigns in the universe. Therefore Christ is indeed the Prince of Peace.
Revelation chapter 20-22.

The trouble is that when people read these things they don;t question how they can be true, and so they never actually get to the truth of it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/15/2016 8:31:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:27:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Explain to us Isaiah 9:6 and what the Jewish prophet meant.

Lol I have just finished doing that, as you have probably seen. It is simple logic really.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/15/2016 8:32:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:26:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.

Transcending time and being multiple places at once is not magic. It's power and knowledge of "how".

Except there is no "how" without damaging his own purposes, since they are all tied to time.
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:33:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:30:12 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:15:22 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(Isaiah 9:6)

Have you ever thought about that verse?

The first thing to note is that whilst Isaiah does indeed say that Christ will be called these things he doesn't say when it will happen, or even if they will all happen at the same time.

Why Mighty God and not Almighty God as is always said of his Father?

Why Prince of Peace, not King of Peace?

Everlasting father is simple. He was used by his father in the creation of everyone and everything (Colossians 1:13-16)

Wonderful Counsellor fits because he was and is Jehovah's spokesman, and whilst on earth, and since, he was, and continues to be, a superb teacher who gives only the best guidance handed down to him by his father

OK that's the most obvious bit:

Mighty God? Well strictly speaking it should be Mighty god since he is a god (as are the angels he helped create). In the sense it is used in the case of the Word, Jehovah's only begotten son, and the Angels, it simply means that they are spirit beings made of the same substance as Jehovah.

Prince of Peace? How can that be when there is no real peace? The answer is simpler than it appears. After the final test, when Satan and all who chose to follow him are destroyed, Christ hands the Kingdom back to his father, therefore he is now a Prince, and finally peace reigns in the universe. Therefore Christ is indeed the Prince of Peace.
Revelation chapter 20-22.

The trouble is that when people read these things they don;t question how they can be true, and so they never actually get to the truth of it.

That's not how the Jews view it. You've recreated yet another religion.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:42:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:32:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:26:07 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.

Transcending time and being multiple places at once is not magic. It's power and knowledge of "how".

Except there is no "how" without damaging his own purposes, since they are all tied to time.

You do understand that time and space coincide together per the space time continuim model and relativity right? Time can be slowed down and sped up. That's a scientific fact. And that is just in our reality, much less God's.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
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4/15/2016 8:43:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 8:24:02 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 8:17:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:58:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 7:23:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/15/2016 6:50:44 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

Not actually. God transcends time. If I went back in time and picked up my 5 year old self, He and I are fully two different persons walking around. But we are 100% the same being. I could teach him, watch over him, protect him, and even adopt him and raise him as my son. But he and I are fully one and fully each other, yet seperate and seeing the world through two different perspectives and dimensions.

God does not transcend time and it is not something you can travel in.

Time is a natural law of the physical universe and cannot be changed, or reversed.

All spirit beings, whether they are Angels or Jehovah's only begotten son are subject to time as well.

Whilst it is true that Jehovah existed before time did, once he set it in motion his perception is controlled by it as much as ours is.

You have a very strange and unscriptural view of what Jehovah is.

All of Jehovah's plans are tied to time, and will all reach the stages they are supposed to reach when they are supposed to reach them, even if he doesn't tell us when that will be.

Do you even understand exactly what has been happening since Adam sinned and why it is being allowed?

Do you understand Jehovah's plan, through his only begotten son, to bring mankind back to the holy state Adam enjoyed until he rebelled?

Do you understand what Jehovah's day of rest truly is or when it will end?

Some how I doubt it, very much, and yet all of that and much much more is in the Bible, each detail revealed as and when it needed to, and not before.

The overall timing has been revealed, much of the interim timing has not.

No Jehovah does not transcend time at all. To him it is like a sealed clock is to us. He watches and monitors is progress, but cannot change it, because of the damage that doing so would cause. He can only watch it progress along the path he set it on many millennia ago.

Only the father is uncreated.

He created his only begotten son. That is why he is a son.

Between them they created everything else, including all of Jehovah's other sons.

Every part of it took time.

God doesn't transcend time? Then how did he "know me before I was ever born"? And how does He know how it all ends up in order to inspire prophecy in the first place? How is He the first and the last? Come on now.

Because he knows how things work, he understands genetics and heredity.

He can influence situations so that the right man marries the right woman.

He doesn't do it for everybody, but if he needs it for his purposes he makes it happen.

For instance the Virgin Mary was the result of about 4,500 years of genetic engineering and careful selection of husbands ad wives.

You are looking at prophecy from the wrong end of the telescope, lol.

He knows how to make things happen the way he wants them to.

That is why prophecy works.

He foretells what will happen.

Then he makes sure that it does, exactly when it was supposed to.

If we allow him to he can, and sometimes will influence our very thinking.

At need he can even manipulate his enemies. Hence he manipulated the Roans to destroy the Temple and, when the Jews didn't take the hint, the Muslims to build the Dome on the Rock in it's place.

Do you imagine for one moment he couldn't do it?

He doesn't need magic.

He doesn't normally need to bend the laws of physics, though as he proved on the Plains of Aijalon he can if he wants and without any ill effects.

What he created, he can use.

Not only is he the God of Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, he is also the epitome of controlled power, of reason and of logic.

Unless you approach his word with reason and logic you won't scratch the surface of understanding it.

Unless you approach his word with a desire to know the truth whether you like it or not he will not let you see it.

You underestimate his power greatly.

I do? You are the one who says He cannot be in multiple places as 2 distinct persons and says He "does not transcend time"? I think He can be 12 unicorns and a peacock all at once if He wants to. It is you who underestimates Him.

I do not underestimate his power, I recognise his nature, his integrity, his logic and his wisdom.

To maintain your belief in the impossible you ignore the simple truth. That Jehovah always does things in rational ways. He doesn't perform temporal gymnastics when there is no need to. He does things the simple, logical way.

He moves continually forward, progressing things exactly as he wants them to go, because as I say he is the epitome of logic and reason.

Are there things Jehovah cannot do?

Yes there are.

As scripture says it is impossible for him to lie.

Why, because of his moral imperative.

You see Jehovah's greatest strength and his greatest power is his self control.

No-one can control Jehovah, no-one can stop his doing anything.

But he can, and does. The Bible is absolutely crammed with examples of just that quality of his.

No, he would not disrupt the stream of time even if he can, and he probably can, the events of the Plain of Aijalon appear to prove that. But he would only do so if he could do it without disrupting or harming any part of his creation.

Apart from that your illustration of you going back and meeting your 5 year old self falls down in one major respect. You would still be you. You would not be father and son.
brontoraptor
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4/15/2016 8:43:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:40:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The Trinity claims that father and son are co-eternal.

That makes scripture a lie when it calls them father and son.

Every definition of the father / son relationship holds them to be of two different generations, one of which produced the other by whatever means of procreation is available to them.

In Jehovah's case his only way of procreation is by creation itself, and therefore all his sons have been produced that way.

However, only one, the Word, is referred to as Jehad's only begotten son, and that makes him the only solo creation of Jehovah who then as Colossians 1:13-16 tells us is then used in creating everything else.

No matter what way you cut it, the Trinity is always revealed as Satanic lie.

And here's some more explaining away for ya. Isn't it easier to just believe the truth?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/15/2016 8:44:08 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
"I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no other Savior."
(Isaiah 43:11)

"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."
(1 John 4:14)
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...