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The fabricated death stories of the apostles

Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

The bible is a historical text.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

The christian god is more perfect.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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4/16/2016 12:01:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Wow Jesus never existed.com Such an upfront reputable site. Here's simon Greenleaf. One of the Founders of Harvard law and essentially wrote the basis for what should be considered evidence in the judicial system of the united states. He was an atheist upon beginng his research on this book. Not so much afterwards. But his acomplishments are nothing compared to yours Chloe. Im certain of that......not. Sorry all I could find was a University sponsored page. Nothing as valid as the site you posted....lmfao
http://law2.umkc.edu...
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/16/2016 12:50:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 12:01:11 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Wow Jesus never existed.com Such an upfront reputable site. Here's simon Greenleaf. One of the Founders of Harvard law and essentially wrote the basis for what should be considered evidence in the judicial system of the united states. He was an atheist upon beginng his research on this book. Not so much afterwards. But his acomplishments are nothing compared to yours Chloe. Im certain of that......not. Sorry all I could find was a University sponsored page. Nothing as valid as the site you posted....lmfao
http://law2.umkc.edu...

Greenleaf was a man of the early 19th century. Science was a lot less advanced back then so using it to disprove Christianity was not as easy as it is today. He took the position that unless biblical accounts could be disproved it was logical to assume they are true. If that approach is taken for the hundreds of religions that exist then it is impossible to find the truth. The fact is no one witnessed events thousands of years ago is alive today. My approach is that unless something can be proven it is illogical to believe it.

These things are known.

1. The genesis creation account is wrong.
2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
5. Jesus did not fulfil prophecy he was supposed to.
6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
7. Nothing was written about Jesus until decades after his death.
8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
18. The old testament god is different to the new testament god.
19. Jesus claims the old testament laws Still apply yet the gospels also claim he makes changes to the laws, revoking the more unsavory and violent ones.
20. Christianity is incompatible with science.

It's clear Christianity is false.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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4/16/2016 1:28:27 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 12:50:11 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/16/2016 12:01:11 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Wow Jesus never existed.com Such an upfront reputable site. Here's simon Greenleaf. One of the Founders of Harvard law and essentially wrote the basis for what should be considered evidence in the judicial system of the united states. He was an atheist upon beginng his research on this book. Not so much afterwards. But his acomplishments are nothing compared to yours Chloe. Im certain of that......not. Sorry all I could find was a University sponsored page. Nothing as valid as the site you posted....lmfao
http://law2.umkc.edu...

Greenleaf was a man of the early 19th century. Science was a lot less advanced back then so using it to disprove Christianity was not as easy as it is today. He took the position that unless biblical accounts could be disproved it was logical to assume they are true. If that approach is taken for the hundreds of religions that exist then it is impossible to find the truth. The fact is no one witnessed events thousands of years ago is alive today. My approach is that unless something can be proven it is illogical to believe it.

These things are known.

1. The genesis creation account is wrong.
See Chuck Missler
2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it
3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.
4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
So do you. Your point is?
5. Jesus did not fulfil prophecy he was supposed to.
Prove it. If the Bible if fabricated in some parts than so are some of the prophesies therefore this argument contradicts the logic of the claim of numb 3.
6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.
7. Nothing was written about Jesus until decades after his death.
Irrelevant
8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant
9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy. Show me the physical evidence anyone of the 49 people that contributed to the Bible over 2000 years read and copied anything. Actual evidence. Not it's similar so it had to have been
10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
You're incapable of proving that isn't the purpose of the Bible. Once again a non argument.
11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant
12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy
13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?
14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority. Prove it.
15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant
16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.
17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?
18. The old testament god is different to the new testament god.
Wrong.
19. Jesus claims the old testament laws Still apply yet the gospels also claim he makes changes to the laws, revoking the more unsavory and violent ones.
People aren't perfect, this is a non argument
20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.
The seven plagues of Egypt occur exactly in the order an ecologist has scientifically proven would happen. Science not comoatible shows your ignoirance..Again a non argument.

It's clear Christianity is false.
Wrong...Testimony is the issue and Greenleaf investigated to disprove the testimony of the evangelists. Suffice to say his book and my link are by far more reputable than yours.
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/16/2016 3:31:29 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

Not illogical, i believe because of logic.

But it is impossible to prove with evidence
because there is none but the Bible.

Which is a very contravesial book.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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4/16/2016 9:06:07 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 3:31:29 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

Not illogical, i believe because of logic.

But it is impossible to prove with evidence
because there is none but the Bible.

Which is a very contravesial book.
I can prove to anyone god exists, I just need a .45 caliber pistol......lol
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,235
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4/16/2016 1:01:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Wow Jesus never existed.com Such an upfront reputable site. Here's simon Greenleaf. One of the Founders of Harvard law and essentially wrote the basis for what should be considered evidence in the judicial system of the united states. He was an atheist upon beginng his research on this book. Not so much afterwards. But his acomplishments are nothing compared to yours Chloe. Im certain of that......not. Sorry all I could find was a University sponsored page. Nothing as valid as the site you posted....lmfao
http://law2.umkc.edu...

Greenleaf was a man of the early 19th century. Science was a lot less advanced back then so using it to disprove Christianity was not as easy as it is today. He took the position that unless biblical accounts could be disproved it was logical to assume they are true. If that approach is taken for the hundreds of religions that exist then it is impossible to find the truth. The fact is no one witnessed events thousands of years ago is alive today. My approach is that unless something can be proven it is illogical to believe it.

These things are known.

1. The genesis creation account is wrong.
See Chuck Missler
What of him?
2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it
Certainly, what do you consider evidence for non-existence?
3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.
It does if the Bible is touted as 100 consistent and infallible. Which, it indeed is touted as.

5. Jesus did not fulfil prophecy he was supposed to.
Prove it. If the Bible if fabricated in some parts than so are some of the prophesies therefore this argument contradicts the logic of the claim of numb 3.
Assuming both to be true, this makes the Bible as historical as a Tom Clancy novel.
6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.
Lets start with angel wings, talking snakes, rains of fire and brimstone, and a world simultaneous flood. Other environs need not matter, as its simply an appeal to time, not current state.
7. Nothing was written about Jesus until decades after his death.
Irrelevant
"Historical text" bills itself as "Contemporary text", but isn't. That's rather relevant.
8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant
"Historical text" misses "Contemporary person", that's rather relevant.
9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy. Show me the physical evidence anyone of the 49 people that contributed to the Bible over 2000 years read and copied anything. Actual evidence. Not it's similar so it had to have been.
... this one is to plain to pass up. Easter, born of a Virgin, Heaven and Hell, resurrection, "knowing the heart", "The Book of Life"... these are all lifted from other mythos.
10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
You're incapable of proving that isn't the purpose of the Bible. Once again a non argument.
The purpose of God's instructions to man is to be convoluted? C'mon...
11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant
Prophecy is a thing, remember?
12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy
"Historical text" doesn't mesh with history. Fallacy of historians how?
13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?
"Historical Text". With majority of its scenes missing.
14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority.
Prove it.
Again, what is your bench mark for 'nonexistence'?
15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant
Then Christendom is irrelevant as its not the 1st century anymore.
16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.
You just got done arguing that the Bible might have been nebulous intentionally.
17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?
Historical text selectively edited.
18. The old testament god is different to the new testament god.
Wrong.
New/Old Covenant? Grace? Arguably different motives at the very least.
19. Jesus claims the old testament laws Still apply yet the gospels also claim he makes changes to the laws, revoking the more unsavory and violent ones.
People aren't perfect, this is a non argument
Infallible historical document.
20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
Magic! yay!
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.
... how do you know its not the fossils they too were looking at?
The seven plagues of Egypt occur exactly in the order an ecologist has scientifically proven would happen. Science not comoatible shows your ignoirance..Again a non argument.
... when did the Nile run as blood and strangely have all its first born die from a plague?

It's clear Christianity is false.
Wrong...Testimony is the issue and Greenleaf investigated to disprove the testimony of the evangelists. Suffice to say his book and my link are by far more reputable than yours.

Meh?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/16/2016 3:27:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 9:06:07 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 3:31:29 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

Not illogical, i believe because of logic.

But it is impossible to prove with evidence
because there is none but the Bible.

Which is a very contravesial book.
I can prove to anyone god exists, I just need a .45 caliber pistol......lol

But if they don't believe first they won't go to heaven.

Good one though. XD
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/16/2016 7:50:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
1. The genesis creation account is wrong.
See Chuck Missler

This is from Wikipedia.

A Los Angeles Times article reported that Missler and co-author Hal Lindsey had plagiarized a portion of Miami University Professor Edwin Yamauchi's 1982 book Foes From the Northern Frontier in their own 1992 book The Magog Factor.[11] After the plagiarism was acknowledged[clarification needed], book shipments to bookstores were discontinued and all of the authors' proceeds donated to a ministry.[12]

Missler has also been accused of plagiarism of New Age writer Michael Talbot's 1992 book The Holographic Universe in his 1999 book Cosmic Codes: Messages from the Edge of Eternity.[13] Missler has also acknowledged this plagiarism and has since publicly apologized. He said a correction would be inserted in all unsold copies and the book itself updated in subsequent printings. Missler has donated all of the author's proceeds from the book to a ministry.[14] [15]

Never heard of the guy before but he does not seem a credible source.

The bible implies Adam and eve were created 6, 000 years ago. It's clear fossilized remains of humans are much older. It claims that everything was created in just 6 earth days. The universe is 13. 7 billion years old. It does not mention animals, plants and humans came into existence through evolution. It claims they were created in the 6 day creation period by intelligent design. It claims plants existed before the sun which is clearly false.

2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it

http://www.aish.com...

3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.

If you acknowledge that parts of the bible are fabricated how do you give any of it any credibility?
4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
So do you. Your point is?

A real messiah who was also God would not fail to convince humans he was the messiah. The fact they rejected him also means he has not fulfilled the prophecies the messiah was supposed to fulfil.

5. Jesus did not fulfil prophecy he was supposed to.
Prove it. If the Bible if fabricated in some parts than so are some of the prophesies therefore this argument contradicts the logic of the claim of numb 3.

Most of the bible's prophecies are fabricated I agree. This disproves Christianity completely. Christians claim the bible is an accurate and truthful book containing only the truth. You acknowledge it's not.

6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.

Evidence of the Christian god existing would be it carrying out some type of communication with humanity or it being observed somewhere in the universe. Unexplainable events that would require divine intervention could also prove theism.

7. Nothing was written about Jesus until decades after his death.
Irrelevant

Key flaw in Christianity. If it was true Jesus's teachings would have been documented during his lifetime with the bible compiled by Jesus himself or shortly after his death by God.

8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant

It shows he was an irrelevant false messiah.

9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy. Show me the physical evidence anyone of the 49 people that contributed to the Bible over 2000 years read and copied anything. Actual evidence. Not it's similar so it had to have been

fish symbol
candles
wreaths
crown of thorns
processions
church buildings
clerical vestments
vow of silence
hymns and carols
bells and bell ringing
Easter season
Christmas season
wedding customs
baptism
speaking in tongues
seven sacraments
ceremonial eating of bread and wine
virgin birth

10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
You're incapable of proving that isn't the purpose of the Bible. Once again a non argument.

So you claim it was intended that finding the truth from reading the bible is difficult? Most Christians claim the bible makes their denomination the obvious true faith.

11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant

If Christianity was true more precise details of Jesus would be included in the old testament. The messiah prophesised is very different to Jesus.

12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy

It's the truth. How can you deny this fact?

13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?

Strange god on earth did nothing until he was 30.

14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority. Prove it.

Events of recent times, not alleged events hundreds of years ago that are impossible to know the truth about due to poor, non existent or undocumented or biased historic accounts.

15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant

Shows 1st century humans created it. A true religion would have installed new fairer morals on society.

16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.

Only 2. 2 billion people believe in Christianity. They are split into hundreds of denominations and sects. 4. 9 billion people think Christianity is false. The Christian god clearly has not informed people of its existence.

17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?

The Romans picked 4 that put the state religion and the Romans in a good light. The other 36 contain some similarities to the 4 chosen gospels but also things very different to what Christians currently believe.

18. The old testament god is different to the new testament god.
Wrong.

It used to tell people to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath. it changed its mind.

19. Jesus claims the old testament laws Still apply yet the gospels also claim he makes changes to the laws, revoking the more unsavory and violent ones.
People aren't perfect, this is a non argument

It is an argument. Jesus is supposedly a god so cannot make mistakes.

20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.
The seven plagues of Egypt occur exactly in the order an ecologist has scientifically proven would happen. Science not comoatible shows your ignoirance..Again a non argument.

Science disproves biblical claims of a 6 day creation 6, 000 years ago, the garden of Eden event, intelligent design, a flat earth, a firmament, a universe with earth at its centre, the sun orbiting the earth and the supposed 900 year lives of biblical figures.

It's clear Christianity is false.
Wrong...Testimony is the issue and Greenleaf investigated to disprove the testimony of the evangelists. Suffice to say his book and my link are by far more reputable than yours.

If Greenleaf was alive today he would be an atheist. Proving Christianity was wrong was much more difficult in his time. The overwhelming bias of American society also created a subconscious bias that led to most people becoming Christ
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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4/16/2016 9:06:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/16/2016 9:42:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 9:06:03 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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4/16/2016 10:13:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 9:42:26 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/16/2016 9:06:03 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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4/16/2016 11:17:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 7:50:32 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1. The genesis creation account is wrong.
See Chuck Missler


This is from Wikipedia.

A Los Angeles Times article reported that Missler and co-author Hal Lindsey had plagiarized a portion of Miami University Professor Edwin Yamauchi's 1982 book Foes From the Northern Frontier in their own 1992 book The Magog Factor.[11] After the plagiarism was acknowledged[clarification needed], book shipments to bookstores were discontinued and all of the authors' proceeds donated to a ministry.[12]
I notice you did not post the clarification. Lol
Missler has also been accused of plagiarism of New Age writer Michael Talbot's 1992 book The Holographic Universe in his 1999 book Cosmic Codes: Messages from the Edge of Eternity.[13]
Missler has also acknowledged this plagiarism and has since publicly apologized. He said a correction would be inserted in all unsold copies and the book itself updated in subsequent printings. Missler has donated all of the author's proceeds from the book to a ministry.[14] [15]
You don't seem to understand plagiarism only is a viable way of discrediting someone in fiction, not non fiction. Non fiction is information
Never heard of the guy before but he does not seem a credible source.
Nice opinion. You obviously have no clue what constitutes credible. He is an information technologist holds more than 4 degrees.
Here see if you can even understand him...and the science and information here is sound btw
https://m.youtube.com...

2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it

http://www.aish.com...
Lol, web site is proof what a joke
3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.

If you acknowledge that parts of the bible are fabricated how do you give any of it any credibility?
Parts don't equal the whole, seriously are you this dense or are you purposely being obtuse?
4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
So do you. Your point is?

A real messiah who was also God would not fail to convince humans he was the messiah. The fact they rejected him also means he has not fulfilled the prophecies the messiah was supposed to f
Non sequitur
Most of the bible's prophecies are fabricated I agree. This disproves Christianity completely. Christians claim the bible is an accurate and truthful book containing only the truth. You acknowledge it's not.
Ad populum. It doesn't matter what Christians claim to know
6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.

Evidence of the Christian god existing would be it carrying out some type of communication with humanity or it being observed somewhere in the universe. Unexplainable events that would require divine intervention could also prove theism.
Prove it to you. You aren't important enough. Non sequitur. You're not the authority on what "proves"

Key flaw in Christianity. If it was true Jesus's teachings would have been documented during his lifetime with the bible compiled by Jesus himself or shortly after his death by God.
Non sequitur.
8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant
It shows he was an irrelevant false messiah.
Non sequitur
9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy. Show me the physical evidence anyone of the 49 people that contributed to the Bible over 2000 years read and copied anything. Actual evidence. Not it's similar so it had to have been

fish symbol
candles
wreaths
crown of thorns
processions
church buildings
clerical vestments
vow of silence
hymns and carols
bells and bell ringing
Easter season
Christmas season
wedding customs
baptism
speaking in tongues
seven sacraments
ceremonial eating of bread and wine
virgin birth
More argument ad nauseum you gonna show the physical evidence someone read an earlier story and copied it...didn't think so. Stop wasting my time.

10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
You're incapable of proving that isn't the purpose of the Bible. Once again a non argument.

So you claim it was intended that finding the truth from reading the bible is difficult? Most Christians claim the bible makes their denomination the obvious true faith.
Straw man, I in know way implied that finding the truth would be difficult. I simply said you can't prove the intention of what the purpose of the Bible is. You simply are logically inept.
11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant

If Christianity was true more precise details of Jesus would be included in the old testament. The messiah prophesised is very different to Jesus.
Non sequitur
12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy

It's the truth. How can you deny this fact?
It irrelevant. You would know that if you weren't logically inept.
13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?

Strange god on earth did nothing until he was 30.
Non argument, nice useless opinion though
14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority. Prove it.

Events of recent times, not alleged events hundreds of years ago that are impossible to know the truth about due to poor, non existent or undocumented or biased historic accounts.
More argument ad nauseum, no proof as usual.
15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant

Shows 1st century humans created it. A true religion would have installed new fairer morals on society.
Noi sequitur, simply a non argument
16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.

Only 2. 2 billion people believe in Christianity. They are split into hundreds of denominations and sects. 4. 9 billion people think Christianity is false. The Christian god clearly has not informed people of its existence.
non sequitur and appeal to popular belief
17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?

The Romans picked 4 that put the state religion and the Romans in a good light. The other 36 contain some similarities to the 4 chosen gospels but also things very different to what Christians currently believe.
Again, so..


20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.
The seven plagues of Egypt occur exactly in the order an ecologist has scientifically proven would happen. Science not comoatible shows your ignoirance..Again a non argument.

I erased all your attempts at acting like you know what the Bible claims.
If Greenleaf was alive today he would be an atheist today.
Lmfukingassoff. The fact you would even consider posting this comment is laughable. I'm done wasting my time. Nice, Umm. conversation
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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4/16/2016 11:25:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.

what is your personal gripe, don't pretend to be a caped crusader..lol
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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4/17/2016 8:32:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 3:31:29 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

Not illogical, i believe because of logic.
You believe what you've been told.
But it is impossible to prove with evidence
because there is none but the Bible.
The bible isn't the evidence it's the claim requiring evidence.
Which is a very contravesial book.
It's a book of fables.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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4/17/2016 8:52:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:17:51 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 7:50:32 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1. The genesis creation account is wrong.

This is from Wikipedia.

A Los Angeles Times article reported that Missler and co-author Hal Lindsey had plagiarized a portion of Miami University Professor Edwin Yamauchi's 1982 book Foes From the Northern Frontier in their own 1992 book The Magog Factor.[11] After the plagiarism was acknowledged[clarification needed], book shipments to bookstores were discontinued and all of the authors' proceeds donated to a ministry.[12]
I notice you did not post the clarification. Lol
Missler has also been accused of plagiarism of New Age writer Michael Talbot's 1992 book The Holographic Universe in his 1999 book Cosmic Codes: Messages from the Edge of Eternity.[13]
Missler has also acknowledged this plagiarism and has since publicly apologized. He said a correction would be inserted in all unsold copies and the book itself updated in subsequent printings. Missler has donated all of the author's proceeds from the book to a ministry.[14] [15]
You don't seem to understand plagiarism only is a viable way of discrediting someone in fiction, not non fiction. Non fiction is information
Never heard of the guy before but he does not seem a credible source.
Nice opinion. You obviously have no clue what constitutes credible. He is an information technologist holds more than 4 degrees.
Here see if you can even understand him...and the science and information here is sound btw
https://m.youtube.com...

2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it

http://www.aish.com...
Lol, web site is proof what a joke
3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.

If you acknowledge that parts of the bible are fabricated how do you give any of it any credibility?
Parts don't equal the whole, seriously are you this dense or are you purposely being obtuse?
4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
So do you. Your point is?

A real messiah who was also God would not fail to convince humans he was the messiah. The fact they rejected him also means he has not fulfilled the prophecies the messiah was supposed to f
Non sequitur
Most of the bible's prophecies are fabricated I agree. This disproves Christianity completely. Christians claim the bible is an accurate and truthful book containing only the truth. You acknowledge it's not.
Ad populum. It doesn't matter what Christians claim to know
6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.

Evidence of the Christian god existing would be it carrying out some type of communication with humanity or it being observed somewhere in the universe. Unexplainable events that would require divine intervention could also prove theism.
Prove it to you. You aren't important enough. Non sequitur. You're not the authority on what "proves"

Key flaw in Christianity. If it was true Jesus's teachings would have been documented during his lifetime with the bible compiled by Jesus himself or shortly after his death by God.
Non sequitur.
8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant
It shows he was an irrelevant false messiah.
Non sequitur
9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.
Confusing cause and effect fallacy. Show me the physical evidence anyone of the 49 people that contributed to the Bible over 2000 years read and copied anything. Actual evidence. Not it's similar so it had to have been

fish symbol
candles
wreaths
crown of thorns
processions
church buildings
clerical vestments
vow of silence
hymns and carols
bells and bell ringing
Easter season
Christmas season
wedding customs
baptism
speaking in tongues
seven sacraments
ceremonial eating of bread and wine
virgin birth
More argument ad nauseum you gonna show the physical evidence someone read an earlier story and copied it...didn't think so. Stop wasting my time.

10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.
You're incapable of proving that isn't the purpose of the Bible. Once again a non argument.

So you claim it was intended that finding the truth from reading the bible is difficult? Most Christians claim the bible makes their denomination the obvious true faith.
Straw man, I in know way implied that finding the truth would be difficult. I simply said you can't prove the intention of what the purpose of the Bible is. You simply are logically inept.
11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant

If Christianity was true more precise details of Jesus would be included in the old testament. The messiah prophesised is very different to Jesus.
Non sequitur
12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy

It's the truth. How can you deny this fact?
It irrelevant. You would know that if you weren't logically inept.
13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?

Strange god on earth did nothing until he was 30.
Non argument, nice useless opinion though
14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority. Prove it.

Events of recent times, not alleged events hundreds of years ago that are impossible to know the truth about due to poor, non existent or undocumented or biased historic accounts.
More argument ad nauseum, no proof as usual.
15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant

Shows 1st century humans created it. A true religion would have installed new fairer morals on society.
Noi sequitur, simply a non argument
16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.

Only 2. 2 billion people believe in Christianity. They are split into hundreds of denominations and sects. 4. 9 billion people think Christianity is false. The Christian god clearly has not informed people of its existence.
non sequitur and appeal to popular belief
17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?

The Romans picked 4 that put the state religion and the Romans in a good light. The other 36 contain some similarities to the 4 chosen gospels but also things very different to what Christians currently believe.
Again, so..


20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.

I erased all your attempts at acting like you know what the Bible claims.
If Greenleaf was alive today he would be an atheist today.
Lmfukingassoff. The fact you would even conside
Skips only response, as always. I' won't listen, lalalalalalalalalalalalalala
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/17/2016 2:49:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 8:32:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/16/2016 3:31:29 AM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:49:41 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 11:15:37 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:54:44 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/15/2016 10:22:00 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/15/2016 9:27:27 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Modern-day Christians admit that there is scant evidence for their beliefs, but one thing they routinely cite is the deaths of Jesus"s apostles. The theory is that these men would not have suffered martyrdom if they had not directly witnessed the truth of Jesus"s resurrection. Setting aside the fact the many people have gone to their deaths in allegiance to non-Christian faiths, the historical reality is that the alleged martyrdom of Jesus"s followers is mostly a fable.

There is evidence that most if not all of the death stories are myths constructed by holy men with varying degrees of motivation, the most prevalent being that a story of principled martyrdom is fertilizer for fostering faith among the followers. These myths, once originated, propagated without resistance throughout a receptive and highly uncritical society of believers. The following website presents details surrounding the mythical death stories of the apostles:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

You know what, it is just because of the claim
of god that people reject and criticize the validity
of the bible.

How well is it supported that Sargon the Great
conquered the fertile crescent?

Historical texts.

Christianity spread through people, culture,
and books.

So do hundreds of other religions.

The bible is a historical text.

No it's not. It's full of myths, fabrications, lies and guesses that are mixed with elements of history.

We all know the Quaran is BS because of the
flaws of Allah's character.

Agree.

The christian god is more perfect.

The Christian God's character is just as flawed as Allah's. It's an evil creature.

If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

Not illogical, i believe because of logic.
You believe what you've been told.
But it is impossible to prove with evidence
because there is none but the Bible.
The bible isn't the evidence it's the claim requiring evidence.
Which is a very contravesial book.
It's a book of fables.

Not anymore, ask me why i believe.

The bible is the only document we
have of this happening.

Being a religious text and unverifiable
it cannot be used as evidence.

More like "myths".
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/18/2016 10:15:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:25:58 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.

what is your personal gripe, don't pretend to be a caped crusader..lol

Suppression of knowledge, sexism, condoning slavery, incorrect teaching, false promises of heaven and threats of hell, opposition to contraception, homophobia, abuse carried out by priests and historical violence and oppression are my biggest personal gripes I would say.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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4/18/2016 10:28:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:15:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:25:58 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.

what is your personal gripe, don't pretend to be a caped crusader..lol

Suppression of knowledge, sexism, condoning slavery, incorrect teaching, false promises of heaven and threats of hell, opposition to contraception, homophobia, abuse carried out by priests and historical violence and oppression are my biggest personal gripes I would say.

hi DC, how are you?
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/18/2016 10:51:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
2. Jesus is not the messiah prophesised in the Torah.
Prove it

http://www.aish.com...
Lol, web site is proof what a joke

The scripture shown proves Jesus is not the messiah prophesised. Lack of space here to show it. Read the article and it's obvious Jesus is a false messiah to any rational person.

3. Many parts of the bible are fabricated.
Irrelevant the parts to do not discredit the whole.

If you acknowledge that parts of the bible are fabricated how do you give any of it any credibility?
Parts don't equal the whole, seriously are you this dense or are you purposely being obtuse?

No I'm looking at it logically. If it is the word of god and 100% the truth as Christians claim fabrications show this claim is incorrect. If you acknowledge some parts are fabricated what makes you think any of it is reliable?

4. The Jews Jesus was meant to save rejected him.
So do you. Your point is?

A real messiah who was also God would not fail to convince humans he was the messiah. The fact they rejected him also means he has not fulfilled the prophecies the messiah was supposed to f
Non sequitur

This answer shows you have no arguments to offer.

Most of the bible's prophecies are fabricated I agree. This disproves Christianity completely. Christians claim the bible is an accurate and truthful book containing only the truth. You acknowledge it's not.
Ad populum. It doesn't matter what Christians claim to know

Exactly. Christians claim Christianity is true because the bible says so. They are clearly wrong. Reality shows Christianity is false.

6. No evidence of the Christian god exists.
Please define what evidence is expected to be found. Please provide proof that all environments where evidence is expected to be found has been surveyed.

Evidence of the Christian god existing would be it carrying out some type of communication with humanity or it being observed somewhere in the universe. Unexplainable events that would require divine intervention could also prove theism.
Prove it to you. You aren't important enough. Non sequitur. You're not the authority on what "proves"

No one has ever found evidence verified by science of any god.

Key flaw in Christianity. If it was true Jesus's teachings would have been documented during his lifetime with the bible compiled by Jesus himself or shortly after his death by God.
Non sequitur.

It's ridiculous Christians ignore this issue.

8. Scholars of the time did not mention Jesus.
Irrelevant

I bet if they wrote up huge and detailed biographies of Jesus matching biblical accounts you would say it was very relevant. You have to accept it both ways. The fact is Jesus was irrelevant. If he performed miracles and extroadinary acts you would expect him to have been documented heavily.

It shows he was an irrelevant false messiah.
Non sequitur

Clearly if Jesus was God on earth carrying out extraordinary acts scholars would have been very interested in him.

9. Christianity shares/borrows many of its beliefs with earlier pagan religions.

More argument ad nauseum you gonna show the physical evidence someone read an earlier story and copied it...didn't think so. Stop wasting my time.

A bit of a coincidence isn't it! Seriously how can you actually believe in Christianity?

10. The bible is open to many interpretations hence the many different denominations. It's clearly difficult to find truth in it even for those who wish to do so.

Straw man, I in know way implied that finding the truth would be difficult. I simply said you can't prove the intention of what the purpose of the Bible is. You simply are logically inept.

The intention of the bible was to encourage belief in Christianity. That's obvious. Do you disagree?

11. Jesus is not mentioned at all in the old testament.
irrelevant

If Christianity was true more precise details of Jesus would be included in the old testament. The messiah prophesised is very different to Jesus.
Non sequitur

It's the truth! There was no mention of a God man or any supernatural acts!

12. No census was held at the time of Jesus's birth.
Historians fallacy

It's the truth. How can you deny this fact?
It irrelevant. You would know that if you weren't logically inept.

It's hugely relevant. It shows biblical authors either didn't know when Jesus was born or lied. No census happened at the time Jesus was allegedly born. Also Romans didn't force people to go to their birthplace when they did have a census.

13. Large parts of Jesus's life are not mentioned in the bible.
Your point?

Strange god on earth did nothing until he was 30.
Non argument, nice useless opinion though

It's a good point. What did the god man get up to in his 20s? Clearly nothing!

14. The bible has not made any successful prophecies that have been verified.
Prove authority. I.e. show me the evidence you have on who is an authority on verification. Btw. This claim implies you are aware of or are yourself an authority. Prove it.

Events of recent times, not alleged events hundreds of years ago that are impossible to know the truth about due to poor, non existent or undocumented or biased historic accounts.
More argument ad nauseum, no proof as usual.

No prophesies have been fulfilled of any significance. The major ones are supposedly yet to happen.

15. Christianity has 1st century moral values and laws.
Irrelevant

Shows 1st century humans created it. A true religion would have installed new fairer morals on society.
Noi sequitur, simply a non argument

It's a great argument. Explain why God shares morals with 1st century men.

16. The Christian god clearly has not wanted to make itself obvious.
Irrelevant and simply what is to you, not what is.

Only 2. 2 billion people believe in Christianity. They are split into hundreds of denominations and sects. 4. 9 billion people think Christianity is false. The Christian god clearly has not informed people of its existence.
non sequitur and appeal to popular belief

If it existed everyone would know about it. However it is fake and non existent so that is obviously not the case.

17. 40 gospel books existed before the church decided which 4 to place in the bible in the middle of the 4th century.
So?

The Romans picked 4 that put the state religion and the Romans in a good light. The other 36 contain some similarities to the 4 chosen gospels but also things very different to what Christians currently believe.
Again, so..

The bible is clearly not influenced by God. It was compiled to be pro Roman. A long way from God's original plan to help the Jewish Israelites!

20. Christianity is incompatible with science.
"God spreads the heavens"...science says the universe is expanding comparable knowledge
"The behemoth has a tail as large as an oak tree". Fossils prove this animal as described has existed yet you'll claim people never saw one because it's supposedly million years old.
The seven plagues of Egypt occur exactly in the order an ecologist has scientifically proven would happen. Science not comoatible shows your ignoirance..Again a non argument.

The sun existed before plants!

The Nile has never dried up!

I erased all your attempts at acting like you know what the Bible claims.

Yeah because you know that they were valid points that were impossible to refute.

If Greenleaf was alive today he would be an atheist today.
Lmfukingassoff. The fact you would even conside

It's logical he would be. He was clearly naturally skeptical o
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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4/20/2016 8:45:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:15:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:25:58 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.

what is your personal gripe, don't pretend to be a caped crusader..lol

Suppression of knowledge, sexism, condoning slavery, incorrect teaching, false promises of heaven and threats of hell, opposition to contraception, homophobia, abuse carried out by priests and historical violence and oppression are my biggest personal gripes I would say.

lol are homophobia, you are homosexual, I thought as much, no problem..
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/20/2016 9:23:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 8:45:54 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/18/2016 10:15:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:25:58 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:49:19 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
If a god existed it would probably show it's existence.

Agree.

So one religion/faith/deity should be true.

Yes if a god existed and demanded worship everyone would worship it.

If a god existed which i can prove but don't
feel like it right now.

It's impossible to prove a god exists.

I actually am constructing an ultimatum proving the christian god's existence but just need to write it up.

(i already have the structure)

It can be proven but only through logic.

Belief in the Christian god is entirely illogical. No verifiable evidence of it exists.

you make the mistake of assuming that there is no evidence just because you do not want to accept any evidence ...

There is clearly evidence proving Christianity is false. Read my earlier posts in this thread and you will see a list of 20 reasons that conclusively prove it

I would love to know what your real gripe with God is..?? lol

The Christian god is a myth. It does not exist.

that states your position it does not say what your gripe with god really is, did someone you love die, are you homosexual?? there must be something??

The god described in the bible is evil.

http://www.debate.org...

Christianity has a negative effect on the world.

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents" religion " leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren"t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying " and letting their children die " because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. "Abstinence-only" sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies " often leading to ill-fated "emergency" marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions"or being forced to have unwanted children they resent"because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They"re devil-worshipers!")
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don"t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars " followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they"ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn"t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of "heretics"/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they"re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality ("why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don"t I have enough faith?").
36. Human achievements"from skillful surgery to to emergency landings"attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it"s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
41. Opposition to contraception leading to couple's having more children than they are capable of looking after, leading to poverty and often death from starvation or disease.

what is your personal gripe, don't pretend to be a caped crusader..lol

Suppression of knowledge, sexism, condoning slavery, incorrect teaching, false promises of heaven and threats of hell, opposition to contraception, homophobia, abuse carried out by priests and historical violence and oppression are my biggest personal gripes I would say.

lol are homophobia, you are homosexual, I thought as much, no problem..

No I'm heterosexual. I just oppose homophobia.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.