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Illusion of Duality

lotsoffun
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4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
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4/16/2016 1:44:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

But what Satan can do at the first place?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,862
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4/16/2016 1:54:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.
Fallacy of equivocation..... You're simply claiming that ,,"battle" has only one meaning, it doesn't.
It's possible the word battle merely means demonstration, not confrontation on equal ground. Or violent interaction because superiority is in question...etc.
You are exactly right. God doesn't "have" to do anything for God. But that doesn't mean God doesn't chose to do something as a demonstration in order to teach a lesson so that wisdom can be gained by those less wise and in need of learning from the example or demonstration that is done.
If the battle between good and evil is an illusion then humans would not put people into prisons for the evil they do and people wouldn't constantly chase after and investigate the "evil" people in a society. Essentially laws are made and enforced so that the good people have a basis and collective agreement to battle to imprison the evil people and of course also define what an evil person is.
Essentially "a battle between good and evil" is a fallacy of ambiguity.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/16/2016 2:25:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:54:10 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.
Fallacy of equivocation..... You're simply claiming that ,,"battle" has only one meaning, it doesn't.
It's possible the word battle merely means demonstration, not confrontation on equal ground. Or violent interaction because superiority is in question...etc.
You are exactly right. God doesn't "have" to do anything for God. But that doesn't mean God doesn't chose to do something as a demonstration in order to teach a lesson so that wisdom can be gained by those less wise and in need of learning from the example or demonstration that is done.
If the battle between good and evil is an illusion then humans would not put people into prisons for the evil they do and people wouldn't constantly chase after and investigate the "evil" people in a society. Essentially laws are made and enforced so that the good people have a basis and collective agreement to battle to imprison the evil people and of course also define what an evil person is.
Essentially "a battle between good and evil" is a fallacy of ambiguity.

On one level you are right. We must battle evil on this plane of existence, and remove certain people from society. The illusion stems from the common belief that we are separate from God. The fallen beings who rule this dense energy planet, and are allowed to do so because this is a free will universe, perpetuate this illusion because it serves them to keep us in the illusion that we are separate from God. We are not. We are all an aspect of the Creator. We are all one. Evil is really an illusion of being separated from God. There are many dimensions of existence and we dwell in a lower density plane, the physical plane. Just think.....If we all decided to come out of our illusion, we would truly be worshiping God because we would be in tune with our original purpose - to co create and expand consciousness. Evil is an illusion because our physical existence is an illusion. Yes it seems real to us but it is not our true reality. It is a matrix, for lack of a better explanation.
lotsoffun
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4/16/2016 2:37:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:44:38 AM, uncung wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

But what Satan can do at the first place?

In reality....nothing
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/16/2016 3:47:22 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
When one extreme contains its opposite, a singularity is formed.

The Truth is at the end.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,862
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4/16/2016 9:01:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 2:25:52 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:54:10 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.
Fallacy of equivocation..... You're simply claiming that ,,"battle" has only one meaning, it doesn't.
It's possible the word battle merely means demonstration, not confrontation on equal ground. Or violent interaction because superiority is in question...etc.
You are exactly right. God doesn't "have" to do anything for God. But that doesn't mean God doesn't chose to do something as a demonstration in order to teach a lesson so that wisdom can be gained by those less wise and in need of learning from the example or demonstration that is done.
If the battle between good and evil is an illusion then humans would not put people into prisons for the evil they do and people wouldn't constantly chase after and investigate the "evil" people in a society. Essentially laws are made and enforced so that the good people have a basis and collective agreement to battle to imprison the evil people and of course also define what an evil person is.
Essentially "a battle between good and evil" is a fallacy of ambiguity.

On one level you are right. We must battle evil on this plane of existence, and remove certain people from society. The illusion stems from the common belief that we are separate from God. The fallen beings who rule this dense energy planet, and are allowed to do so because this is a free will universe, perpetuate this illusion because it serves them to keep us in the illusion that we are separate from God. We are not. We are all an aspect of the Creator. We are all one. Evil is really an illusion of being separated from God. There are many dimensions of existence and we dwell in a lower density plane, the physical plane. Just think.....If we all decided to come out of our illusion, we would truly be worshiping God because we would be in tune with our original purpose - to co create and expand consciousness. Evil is an illusion because our physical existence is an illusion. Yes it seems real to us but it is not our true reality. It is a matrix, for lack of a better explanation.
ok lets get technical since you seemed to have elaborated beyond the initial idea that I assumed your OP said. Evil exists merely as a byproduct of limited wisdom. The semantics that you consider when you claim what constitutes illusion is now the focus as opposed to your op which was in regards to good battling evil is an illusion. if lack of wisdom within the human condition results in "a kind of evil" that is no longer seen as evil when a level of wisdom is attained equal to Gods than yes, evil is an illusion that a certain level of wisdom "creates" or seems to acknowledge.. But the question is now why can't evil, as the illusion, be actual evil. By this I mean evil exists until the evolved collective of lesser beings reach the wisdom necessary to properly see evil as inert essentially. Evil then may simply be defined as a necessary thought that is inconsequential to our "newly found level of a wiser mind".
For instance, the difference is now how someone interprets another wiser mind saying isn't it good we do not have the desire or ability or a want to "kill" one another. The wiser mind sees killing as an impossibility because of a universal wisdom, but still to kill is considered evil. Kill as an action is an impossibility but acknowledgement that there is such a thing as kill still exists. To kill or killing as a thing still remains evil even though wisdom negates a possibility of an actual "killing action" ever being done. Ok I shouldn't have done this half asleep. because we actually agree but im trying a semantic disection of "illusory evil" based on differing levels of wisdom. lol
PureX
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4/16/2016 1:38:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

Duality is an illusion, I agree, but it's one that results from the way the human brain cognates the sensory information that it receives. That is essentially by repeatedly comparing and contrasting the new information it is receiving from direct immediate experience of the world around us, with information it has stored in it's memory, of past experiences. Thus, by comparing and contrasting the new info with the existing info we are able to "identify" what we think is happening, and evaluate it for possible danger, or advantage.

The "duality" we think we see in the world around us is built into our brains by the way our brains understand the reality in which we find ourselves. Reality is not actually made up of lots of different things, interacting, as we perceive it. Reality is one holistic, ongoing event. It's all intrinsically interrelated. There are no separate "things", or separate phenomena. It's all one dynamic "thing": one phenomenon.

Consider this from the Tao the Ching:

"When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and he lets them come;
things disappear and he lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.

That is why it lasts forever."


(The pronoun changes in this translation because we don't have a personal genderless pronoun in english.)
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/16/2016 6:31:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 9:01:03 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 2:25:52 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:54:10 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.
Fallacy of equivocation..... You're simply claiming that ,,"battle" has only one meaning, it doesn't.
It's possible the word battle merely means demonstration, not confrontation on equal ground. Or violent interaction because superiority is in question...etc.
You are exactly right. God doesn't "have" to do anything for God. But that doesn't mean God doesn't chose to do something as a demonstration in order to teach a lesson so that wisdom can be gained by those less wise and in need of learning from the example or demonstration that is done.
If the battle between good and evil is an illusion then humans would not put people into prisons for the evil they do and people wouldn't constantly chase after and investigate the "evil" people in a society. Essentially laws are made and enforced so that the good people have a basis and collective agreement to battle to imprison the evil people and of course also define what an evil person is.
Essentially "a battle between good and evil" is a fallacy of ambiguity.

On one level you are right. We must battle evil on this plane of existence, and remove certain people from society. The illusion stems from the common belief that we are separate from God. The fallen beings who rule this dense energy planet, and are allowed to do so because this is a free will universe, perpetuate this illusion because it serves them to keep us in the illusion that we are separate from God. We are not. We are all an aspect of the Creator. We are all one. Evil is really an illusion of being separated from God. There are many dimensions of existence and we dwell in a lower density plane, the physical plane. Just think.....If we all decided to come out of our illusion, we would truly be worshiping God because we would be in tune with our original purpose - to co create and expand consciousness. Evil is an illusion because our physical existence is an illusion. Yes it seems real to us but it is not our true reality. It is a matrix, for lack of a better explanation.
ok lets get technical since you seemed to have elaborated beyond the initial idea that I assumed your OP said. Evil exists merely as a byproduct of limited wisdom. The semantics that you consider when you claim what constitutes illusion is now the focus as opposed to your op which was in regards to good battling evil is an illusion. if lack of wisdom within the human condition results in "a kind of evil" that is no longer seen as evil when a level of wisdom is attained equal to Gods than yes, evil is an illusion that a certain level of wisdom "creates" or seems to acknowledge.. But the question is now why can't evil, as the illusion, be actual evil. By this I mean evil exists until the evolved collective of lesser beings reach the wisdom necessary to properly see evil as inert essentially. Evil then may simply be defined as a necessary thought that is inconsequential to our "newly found level of a wiser mind".
For instance, the difference is now how someone interprets another wiser mind saying isn't it good we do not have the desire or ability or a want to "kill" one another. The wiser mind sees killing as an impossibility because of a universal wisdom, but still to kill is considered evil. Kill as an action is an impossibility but acknowledgement that there is such a thing as kill still exists. To kill or killing as a thing still remains evil even though wisdom negates a possibility of an actual "killing action" ever being done. Ok I shouldn't have done this half asleep. because we actually agree but im trying a semantic disection of "illusory evil" based on differing levels of wisdom. lol

I agree with some of what you say. What I would change is that I would substitute consciousness for wisdom. Wisdom exists within certain levels of consciousness. Human wisdom is not on the level of Christ consciousness wisdom.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/16/2016 7:34:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:38:55 PM, PureX wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

Duality is an illusion, I agree, but it's one that results from the way the human brain cognates the sensory information that it receives. That is essentially by repeatedly comparing and contrasting the new information it is receiving from direct immediate experience of the world around us, with information it has stored in it's memory, of past experiences. Thus, by comparing and contrasting the new info with the existing info we are able to "identify" what we think is happening, and evaluate it for possible danger, or advantage.

The "duality" we think we see in the world around us is built into our brains by the way our brains understand the reality in which we find ourselves. Reality is not actually made up of lots of different things, interacting, as we perceive it. Reality is one holistic, ongoing event. It's all intrinsically interrelated. There are no separate "things", or separate phenomena. It's all one dynamic "thing": one phenomenon.

Consider this from the Tao the Ching:

"When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and he lets them come;
things disappear and he lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.

That is why it lasts forever."


(The pronoun changes in this translation because we don't have a personal genderless pronoun in english.)

What this guy said.

We can't really make sense of anything without comparing to something else, that's how the mind works. Any experience we receive is going to be filtered through this.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/16/2016 9:13:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

I broadly agree, Fun. After extensive study, our universe shows no evidence of being morally ordered, and instead is arbitrary and mercilessly cruel to all life, which firmly places the burden on humans to work out for themselves what justice and wellbeing ought to look like to our individuals, society and species.

Principally through the sciences and secular moral and ethical discourse, we are making strides on that. We now have a much better objective understanding of what good and bad mean for us physically, nutritionally, psychologically, intellectually, developmentally, socially and economically and people are thriving because of that knowledge, as they never have in human history.

We wouldn't need to do that if there were a 'war' between good and evil. We'd be able to copy reliable knowledge given to us, rather than having to explore and refine it ourselves.

Secondly, if there were a 'war', it'd be hard to do it secularly, because the first casualty of war is truth.

Conclusion?

There's no war. The paranoid, narcissitic moral dualism that began with Zoroastrianism, and was subsequently stolen by Christianity and Islam has been debunked by human history and achievement itself.

Moreover, moral dualism is not only false, it has proven itself unspeakably cruel and unjust, highly corruptable by autocratic, clerical and nationalistic ambitions, resulted in massive oppression, countless persecutions and ethnic cleansings -- and continues to produce these unjust blights on human dignity and wellbeing today.

It's evil thought in its own right in that it leads good people to do bad things for good motives but bad reasoning, without ever being able to recognise just how bad they're being.

So thumbs down to moral dualism from me. Anyone who believes this nonsense is both a victim of ignorance, and risks being a mindless, evil persecutor of his fellow man.

Religion in particular, and humanity in general, would be vastly better off without moral dualism.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/16/2016 10:00:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 9:13:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

I broadly agree, Fun. After extensive study, our universe shows no evidence of being morally ordered, and instead is arbitrary and mercilessly cruel to all life, which firmly places the burden on humans to work out for themselves what justice and wellbeing ought to look like to our individuals, society and species.

Principally through the sciences and secular moral and ethical discourse, we are making strides on that. We now have a much better objective understanding of what good and bad mean for us physically, nutritionally, psychologically, intellectually, developmentally, socially and economically and people are thriving because of that knowledge, as they never have in human history.

We wouldn't need to do that if there were a 'war' between good and evil. We'd be able to copy reliable knowledge given to us, rather than having to explore and refine it ourselves.

Secondly, if there were a 'war', it'd be hard to do it secularly, because the first casualty of war is truth.

Conclusion?

There's no war. The paranoid, narcissitic moral dualism that began with Zoroastrianism, and was subsequently stolen by Christianity and Islam has been debunked by human history and achievement itself.

Moreover, moral dualism is not only false, it has proven itself unspeakably cruel and unjust, highly corruptable by autocratic, clerical and nationalistic ambitions, resulted in massive oppression, countless persecutions and ethnic cleansings -- and continues to produce these unjust blights on human dignity and wellbeing today.

It's evil thought in its own right in that it leads good people to do bad things for good motives but bad reasoning, without ever being able to recognise just how bad they're being.

So thumbs down to moral dualism from me. Anyone who believes this nonsense is both a victim of ignorance, and risks being a mindless, evil persecutor of his fellow man.

Religion in particular, and humanity in general, would be vastly better off without moral dualism.

You are making judgments about whether things are good or bad, yet you deny moral dualism.

That doesn't make any sense.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/16/2016 10:07:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:00:48 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 4/16/2016 9:13:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

I broadly agree, Fun. After extensive study, our universe shows no evidence of being morally ordered, and instead is arbitrary and mercilessly cruel to all life, which firmly places the burden on humans to work out for themselves what justice and wellbeing ought to look like to our individuals, society and species.

Principally through the sciences and secular moral and ethical discourse, we are making strides on that. We now have a much better objective understanding of what good and bad mean for us physically, nutritionally, psychologically, intellectually, developmentally, socially and economically and people are thriving because of that knowledge, as they never have in human history.

We wouldn't need to do that if there were a 'war' between good and evil. We'd be able to copy reliable knowledge given to us, rather than having to explore and refine it ourselves.

Secondly, if there were a 'war', it'd be hard to do it secularly, because the first casualty of war is truth.

Conclusion?

There's no war. The paranoid, narcissitic moral dualism that began with Zoroastrianism, and was subsequently stolen by Christianity and Islam has been debunked by human history and achievement itself.

Moreover, moral dualism is not only false, it has proven itself unspeakably cruel and unjust, highly corruptable by autocratic, clerical and nationalistic ambitions, resulted in massive oppression, countless persecutions and ethnic cleansings -- and continues to produce these unjust blights on human dignity and wellbeing today.

It's evil thought in its own right in that it leads good people to do bad things for good motives but bad reasoning, without ever being able to recognise just how bad they're being.

So thumbs down to moral dualism from me. Anyone who believes this nonsense is both a victim of ignorance, and risks being a mindless, evil persecutor of his fellow man.

Religion in particular, and humanity in general, would be vastly better off without moral dualism.

You are making judgments about whether things are good or bad, yet you deny moral dualism.

That doesn't make any sense.

Philosophically, moral dualism isn't the belief that things might be better or worse, S&T. It's the belief that absolute good and absolute bad: a) exist; and b) either operate in some sort of balance, or are vying for control of consequence and/or causality. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] So it's a metaphysical belief.

The rejection of moral dualism isn't the assertion of moral relativism. It's just rejection of the metaphysical ontology.
SpiritandTruth
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4/16/2016 10:11:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
In other words, you are talking about objective morality, not moral dualism.

Yet, you are making moral statements. If you do not believe in objective morality, what makes your opinion on morals any more valid than the morals you consider to be arbitrary?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,164
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4/16/2016 10:30:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

The illusion of duality concerns being and cosmos.
Existence and the world.
Archer and target.
But, when I read your OP, you mean something different.

There is no duality, so that would include this good/evil you mention.
I never considered the illusion of duality to involve good/evil, but it certainly could.
To me it is a much broader concept.

I would imagine that one could agree that a duality of good/evil is an illusion, does not exist, yet still not see that other forms of duality are also illusions.

Pluck a blade of grass in the meadow, and a frog in the pond crocks.
All is one.
SpiritandTruth
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4/16/2016 10:34:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
As long as you have a concept that requires another to stand on, there is duality.

In other words, it's unavoidable. It's the nature of creation. Relative or not.

You can't have hot without cold.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/16/2016 10:53:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:30:29 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

The illusion of duality concerns being and cosmos.
Existence and the world.
Archer and target.
But, when I read your OP, you mean something different.

There is no duality, so that would include this good/evil you mention.
I never considered the illusion of duality to involve good/evil, but it certainly could.
To me it is a much broader concept.

I would imagine that one could agree that a duality of good/evil is an illusion, does not exist, yet still not see that other forms of duality are also illusions.

Pluck a blade of grass in the meadow, and a frog in the pond crocks.
All is one.

What I mean by the illusion of duality is that it is an illusion that we are separate from the universal mind of the creator.
EtrnlVw
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4/16/2016 11:05:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

No, it is not an illusion it's reality. It isn't perpetuated by religion rather religion exposes it, sheds light on the matter. There is no battle between God and "Satan" in the sense they are fighting each other lol, that is not what is meant by that. "Satan" cannot harm or touch God so they don't battle rather souls do, it's our battle not God's. Duality is mainly expressed on these lower levels of consciousness and it should be obvious, and though there may be war in the "heavens" as well... for now it's speculation, we will know when we get there but there are most certainly evil forces and good forces working simultaneously in just about all you can think of . This we see in reality not just an illusion, this is no game...
For evil to flourish and gain traction it must have a foothold, it gains footholds through vessels in these physical realms.
You can find duality in just about every thing from religion to politics to ordinary folks ect... darkness is always looking to invade the light, duality is simply two forces opposing one another.
EtrnlVw
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4/16/2016 11:10:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:53:54 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:30:29 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

The illusion of duality concerns being and cosmos.
Existence and the world.
Archer and target.
But, when I read your OP, you mean something different.

There is no duality, so that would include this good/evil you mention.
I never considered the illusion of duality to involve good/evil, but it certainly could.
To me it is a much broader concept.

I would imagine that one could agree that a duality of good/evil is an illusion, does not exist, yet still not see that other forms of duality are also illusions.

Pluck a blade of grass in the meadow, and a frog in the pond crocks.
All is one.

What I mean by the illusion of duality is that it is an illusion that we are separate from the universal mind of the creator.

But separate how? explain what you mean by that... we most certainly can be separated in these physical realms but only in the sense of what we possess in our own vessels, how can one be full of light when he has darkness in his soul? how can one serve two masters? how can evil and good exist in harmony in one source...
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/16/2016 11:36:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:10:31 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:53:54 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:30:29 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

The illusion of duality concerns being and cosmos.
Existence and the world.
Archer and target.
But, when I read your OP, you mean something different.

There is no duality, so that would include this good/evil you mention.
I never considered the illusion of duality to involve good/evil, but it certainly could.
To me it is a much broader concept.

I would imagine that one could agree that a duality of good/evil is an illusion, does not exist, yet still not see that other forms of duality are also illusions.

Pluck a blade of grass in the meadow, and a frog in the pond crocks.
All is one.

What I mean by the illusion of duality is that it is an illusion that we are separate from the universal mind of the creator.

But separate how? explain what you mean by that... we most certainly can be separated in these physical realms but only in the sense of what we possess in our own vessels, how can one be full of light when he has darkness in his soul? how can one serve two masters? how can evil and good exist in harmony in one source...

We live in a dense energy in the physical dimension. There are lower and higher planes of consciousness. In the higher planes, the consciousness of separation from God does not exist. In levels close to the physical we believe, because we are conditioned to, that good is always battling evil. God doesn't have to battle. It allows the illusion (yes....existence in a sense) of duality because this is a free will universe. Evil exists within the greater illusion, but it's still an illusion.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/17/2016 12:11:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Duality is the natural byproduct of observation.

The simple act of discriminating created duality.

You take into account the observer, and you have a trinity.

Recognizing the trinity is supposed to point to the singularity.

Bell's Theorem puts it into math.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/17/2016 12:19:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:11:59 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Duality is the natural byproduct of observation.

The simple act of discriminating created duality.

You take into account the observer, and you have a trinity.

Recognizing the trinity is supposed to point to the singularity.


Bell's Theorem puts it into math.

I don't get what you are trying to say, but What I mean by duality is a false belief, perpetuated by religion, that we are separate from God and that there is a real war between good and evil.
lotsoffun
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4/17/2016 12:20:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:11:59 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Duality is the natural byproduct of observation.

The simple act of discriminating created duality.

You take into account the observer, and you have a trinity.

Recognizing the trinity is supposed to point to the singularity.


Bell's Theorem puts it into math.

Sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say, but What I mean by duality is a false belief, perpetuated by religion, that we are separate from God and that there is a real war between good and evil.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/17/2016 12:28:05 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Yeah, I agree with what you are saying about that.

God doesn't have an equal, and nothing can compete with God.

Dualism is a nature of creation, not God, who is uncreated.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
SpiritandTruth
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4/17/2016 12:30:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
But there really is a war between good and evil. Maybe a bunch of them. This is in creation though.

These phenomena do exist in some sense, that is what I'm saying. But Ultimately, no, God is sovereign over all things.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
lotsoffun
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4/17/2016 12:48:24 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:30:38 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
But there really is a war between good and evil. Maybe a bunch of them. This is in creation though.

These phenomena do exist in some sense, that is what I'm saying. But Ultimately, no, God is sovereign over all things.

I believe it goes beyond that, though. I am not religious but I do believe that in creation, and not just on this particular planet, there are fallen beings who decided that they could live outside the consciousness of God. Since God is omnipresent and omnipotent and has set the law of free will in this universe, the children can create any illusion they desire. The problem is, the fallen ones have dragged a shite load of people into that illusion. The religions tend to perpetuate this separation from the ONE.
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/17/2016 12:51:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Religion does a lot of things. Sure, religion can lead people astray, but to some it shows them the way.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,164
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4/17/2016 12:56:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:34:12 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
As long as you have a concept that requires another to stand on, there is duality.

In other words, it's unavoidable. It's the nature of creation. Relative or not.


You can't have hot without cold.

I have no concept you need to stand on.
You have no concept I need to stand on.

If hot and cold are separate, represent duality, where is the division?
At what temperature is hot, suddenly no longer hot, but cold instead?
When is it that cold ceases to be cold, and is now hot?

Hot and old, two sides to one coin.
Not opposing existences, just one existence.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,601
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4/17/2016 12:57:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:51:47 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Religion does a lot of things. Sure, religion can lead people astray, but to some it shows them the way.

I'm not knocking religion, but it can only lead one so far. I believe the truth lies beyond. It is out there but you really have to want to search for it. If you do it comes to you in amounts that you can handle at any given time
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,164
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4/17/2016 12:58:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 10:53:54 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 4/16/2016 10:30:29 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 4/16/2016 1:35:26 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
There is no battle between good and evil, between The Creator and Satan. To believe that God has to battle a being that is an aspect of itself is nonsense. The battle between good and evil is just an illusion perpetuated by religion. Discuss please.

The illusion of duality concerns being and cosmos.
Existence and the world.
Archer and target.
But, when I read your OP, you mean something different.

There is no duality, so that would include this good/evil you mention.
I never considered the illusion of duality to involve good/evil, but it certainly could.
To me it is a much broader concept.

I would imagine that one could agree that a duality of good/evil is an illusion, does not exist, yet still not see that other forms of duality are also illusions.

Pluck a blade of grass in the meadow, and a frog in the pond crocks.
All is one.

What I mean by the illusion of duality is that it is an illusion that we are separate from the universal mind of the creator.

Well, this is close to what I meant.
Close enough, If by "mind of the creator" you could mean the cosmos.