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Show Me Islam In The Stars?

newnature
Posts: 150
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4/16/2016 8:23:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. The the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written scriptures of truth, there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away, and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.
Looncall
Posts: 442
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4/16/2016 11:16:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 8:23:08 AM, newnature wrote:
The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. The the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written scriptures of truth, there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away, and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.

There is nothing written in the stars. The stars of the constellations are not physically related in any way., The pictures are just the imaginings of ignorant primitives.

The only use of astrology is for fleecing gullible people. It is amazing that people fall for that hocus-pocus in these times.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
newnature
Posts: 150
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4/16/2016 3:30:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:16:39 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 4/16/2016 8:23:08 AM, newnature wrote:
The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. The the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written scriptures of truth, there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away, and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.

There is nothing written in the stars. The stars of the constellations are not physically related in any way., The pictures are just the imaginings of ignorant primitives.

The only use of astrology is for fleecing gullible people. It is amazing that people fall for that hocus-pocus in these times.

Genesis 1:14-19 reveals the fact that they were created, not only "to divide the day from the night, and to give light upon the earth"; but, they were set "for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years". "And" is the figure of speech Polysyndeton or Many Ands. The repetition of the word "and" at the beginning of successive clauses, each independent, important, and emphatic, with no climax at the end. The figure emphasizes these four purposes, and bids us to single them out and consider them separately and independently. R32;

They are for signs. The Hebrew word oth, from athah, means to come. Signs, therefore, of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. Those who do not may well be "dismayed" Jer. 10:2. For more than 2,500 years, the revelation of the hope which God gave in Genesis 3:15 was preserved in the naming of the stars and their grouping in Signs and Constellations.
Looncall
Posts: 442
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4/16/2016 3:44:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 3:30:33 PM, newnature wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:16:39 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 4/16/2016 8:23:08 AM, newnature wrote:
The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. The the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written scriptures of truth, there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away, and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.

There is nothing written in the stars. The stars of the constellations are not physically related in any way., The pictures are just the imaginings of ignorant primitives.

The only use of astrology is for fleecing gullible people. It is amazing that people fall for that hocus-pocus in these times.

Genesis 1:14-19 reveals the fact that they were created, not only "to divide the day from the night, and to give light upon the earth"; but, they were set "for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years". "And" is the figure of speech Polysyndeton or Many Ands. The repetition of the word "and" at the beginning of successive clauses, each independent, important, and emphatic, with no climax at the end. The figure emphasizes these four purposes, and bids us to single them out and consider them separately and independently. R32;

They are for signs. The Hebrew word oth, from athah, means to come. Signs, therefore, of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. Those who do not may well be "dismayed" Jer. 10:2. For more than 2,500 years, the revelation of the hope which God gave in Genesis 3:15 was preserved in the naming of the stars and their grouping in Signs and Constellations.

Genesis is just a campfire yarn of ignorant savages, not a science text.

I gather that most of our star names are Arabic, not Hebrew.
The metaphysicist has no laboratory.
newnature
Posts: 150
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4/16/2016 5:02:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 3:44:17 PM, Looncall wrote:
At 4/16/2016 3:30:33 PM, newnature wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:16:39 AM, Looncall wrote:
At 4/16/2016 8:23:08 AM, newnature wrote:
The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. The the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written scriptures of truth, there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away, and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.

There is nothing written in the stars. The stars of the constellations are not physically related in any way., The pictures are just the imaginings of ignorant primitives.

The only use of astrology is for fleecing gullible people. It is amazing that people fall for that hocus-pocus in these times.

Genesis 1:14-19 reveals the fact that they were created, not only "to divide the day from the night, and to give light upon the earth"; but, they were set "for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years". "And" is the figure of speech Polysyndeton or Many Ands. The repetition of the word "and" at the beginning of successive clauses, each independent, important, and emphatic, with no climax at the end. The figure emphasizes these four purposes, and bids us to single them out and consider them separately and independently. R32;

They are for signs. The Hebrew word oth, from athah, means to come. Signs, therefore, of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. Those who do not may well be "dismayed" Jer. 10:2. For more than 2,500 years, the revelation of the hope which God gave in Genesis 3:15 was preserved in the naming of the stars and their grouping in Signs and Constellations.

Genesis is just a campfire yarn of ignorant savages, not a science text.

I gather that most of our star names are Arabic, not Hebrew.

A figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said.

In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a "serpent", it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation.

Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. "Thou shalt bruise his heel", it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. R32;

"He shall crush thy head", it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan"s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. R32;

This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of Christ"s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan" power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed.

Most of these names of the stars have been lost; but over 100 are preserved through the Arabic and Hebrew, and are used by astronomers today, though their meaning is unknown to them.
Osman35
Posts: 52
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4/19/2016 2:50:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The Fourteenth Flash
This consists of two stations. The first consists of the answer to two questions.

In His Name be He glorified!

And there is nothing but it glorifies Him with praise.(17:44)

Peace be upon you, and God"s mercy and blessings!

My Dear and Loyal Brother, Re"fet Bey!

The answer to the question you ask about the Bull and the Fish is to be found in several parts of the Risale-i Nur. The Third Branch of the Twenty-Fourth Word contains an explanation of that sort of question, in the light of twelve important rules called twelve principles. Those rules all offer criteria for understanding the various interpretations of the Prophet"s (UWBP) Hadiths, and comprise important principles for dispelling doubts that may arise about them. Unfortunately at the moment a number of circumstances prevent my becoming occupied with scholarly matters that are not inspiration. I therefore cannot reply to your question as you asked it. I have to be busy with the inspiration when it comes to my heart, I am compelled to be busy with it. I answer some questions because they coincide with the inspirations, so don"t be offended. I cannot answer all questions as they deserve. But this time let me reply briefly to your question.
T h e A n s w e r : There is a sound narration attributed to people like Ibn "Abbas (May God be pleased with him) which says that the Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) was asked: "What does the world rest on?" He replied: "On the Bull and the Fish."1 In one narration,
he said, "On the Bull," and on another occasion he said, "On the Fish." Some Hadith scholars applied this Hadith to superstitions and stories taken from isra"iliyat, related since early times. Scholars of the Children of Israel who became Muslims especially applied it to stories about the Bull and the Fish they had seen in the former scriptures, altering it to mean something strange. For now I shall explain three "principles" and three "aspects" in connection with your question.

FIRST PRINCIPLE
When some of the Israelite scholars became Muslims, their former knowledge became Muslim along with them and was ascribed to Islam. However, what they knew contained errors which were certainly their errors and not Islam"s.
SECOND PRINCIPLE

On comparisons and metaphors passing from the elite to the common people, that is, on their falling from the hands of learning to those of ignorance, with the passage of time they are imagined to be literally true. For example, when I was a child an eclipse of the moon occurred. I asked my mother: "Why has the moon gone like that?" She replied: "A snake has swallowed it." "It can still be seen," I said. She replied: "The snakes up there are like glass; they show the things inside them!"
For a long time I recalled this childhood memory. Pondering over it, I would say: "How could such a false superstition come to be repeated by serious people like my mother?" Then when I studied astronomy I realized that people like her who repeated it supposed a metaphor to be reality. For when the vast circle called the zodiac, which is the circle denoting the degrees of the sun, and the circle of the declination of the moon, which is the circle depicting its mansions, pass over one another, it gives each of the two circles the form of an arc. Using a subtle metaphor the astronomers called the two arcs "the two great serpents." They called the points of intersection of the two circles "the head" and "the tail." When the moon comes to the head and the sun to the tail, in the terminology of astronomy, an interposition of the earth occurs. That is, the globe of the earth passes right between the two of them and the moon is eclipsed. According to the above metaphor, "the moon has entered the serpent"s mouth." Thus, when this elevated and scholarly metaphor entered the language of the common people, in the course of time it took on the shape of a huge snake swallowing the moon.
Thus, with a sacred and subtle metaphor and meaningful allusion, two great angels were called the Bull (T. Sevr; Ar. Thawr) and the Fish (T. H"t; A. Hut), but on entering
the common language from the elevated tongue of the prophethood, the metaphor was transformed and given a literal meaning, and they took on the form of a truly enormous bull and awesome fish.
THIRD PRINCIPLE

Just as the Qur"an contains allegories and comparisons, and with them teaches profound matters to the ordinary people; so do Hadiths contain comparisons and allegories; they express profound truths by means of familiar comparisons. For example, as we have described in two other places, one time in the presence of the Prophet (UWBP) a deep rumbling was heard. He said: "It is the sound of a rock which has been rolling downhill for seventy years and has now hit the bottom of Hell."1 A few minutes later someone arrived and reported that a famous seventy-year-old dissembler had died, thus proclaiming the true meaning of the Noble Messenger"s (Upon whom be blessings and peace) highly eloquent comparison.
For now, three "aspects" will be explained in reply to your question:
T h e F i r s t : Almighty God appointed four angels " called the Eagle (Nasr " Aquila) and the Bull (Thawr " Taurus)2 " as bearers of the divine throne and the heavens, to supervise His dominical sovereignty. He also appointed two angels as supervisors and bearers of the earth, which is the small brother of the heavens and companion of the planets. One of them was called the Bull and the other, the Fish. The reason for His giving these names is this:
There are two parts to the earth, one is water and the other is land. Fish inhabit the part that is water, while agriculture, the support of human life, is practised with bulls and oxen, which inhabit the part of the earth that is land; agriculture rests on the shoulders of oxen. Since the two angels appointed to the earth are both commanders and supervisors, they surely have some sort of relationship with the bovine and piscine species. Indeed, "And the knowledge is with God," the angels are represented in the Worlds of the Inner Dimensions of Things and of Similitudes in the forms of a bull and a fish.3 Thus, alluding to their relationship and supervision and those two important species of the earth, with his miraculous manner of expression the Prophet (UWBP) said: "The earth is on the Bull and the Fish," thus stating in one fine, concise sentence a page of profound truths.
S e c o n d A s p e c t : If it is said: "What does the government and its rule rest on?," it will be said in reply: "On the sword and the pen." That is, it rests on the valour of the soldier"s sword and the perspicacity and justice of the official"s pen. In the same way, since the earth is the dwelling-place of animate beings and the commander of animate beings is man, and fish are the means of livelihood of the majority of men who live by the sea, and the majority of those who do not live by the sea live by means of agriculture, which rests on the shoulders of bulls and oxen, and fish are also an important means of trade, just as the state rests on the sword and the pen, so it may also be said that the earth rests on the ox and the fish. For man cannot survive if the ox does not work or fish do not produce millions of eggs; life would cease and the All-Wise Creator would destroy the earth.

Thus, replying in a most miraculous, elevated, and wise way, God"s Noble Messenger (UWBP) said: "The earth rests on the bull and the fish." He taught an extensive truth with two words and showed how closely linked man"s life is to the life of the animal species.
...source: risale-i nur collection
Osman35
Posts: 52
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4/19/2016 2:53:02 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
T h i r d A s p e c t : In the view of ancient cosmology the sun travelled and a constellation was defined every thirty degrees of its journey. If hypothetical lines were drawn connecting the stars in the constellations with one another, some take on the shape of a lion, others the shape of scales, others the shape of a bull, and yet others the shape of a fish. Names were given to the constellations in consequence of those relationships. But in the view of astronomy this age, the sun does not travel. The constellations remain idle and without work, for the earth travels instead of the sun. They assume shapes on a small scale within the annual orbit of the earth on the ground, instead of those lofty idle constellations above. Thus, the heavenly constellations are represented out of earth"s annual orbit, and each month the earth is in the shadow and likeness of one of the constellations. It is as if they are represented in the mirror-like annual orbit of the earth.

For this reason, as we mentioned above, on one occasion the Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) said: "On the Bull," and on another he said: "On the Fish." Yes, he indicated a truly profound truth that would be understood only many centuries later, and said in the miraculous prophetic tongue: "On the Bull," because at that time the earth was in the likeness of the constellation Taurus. And on being asked a month later, he replied: "On the Fish," for then the earth was in the shadow of the constellation of Pisces.
Yes, he said: "On the Bull and the Fish" and alluded to an elevated truth that would be understood in the future, and hinted at the earth"s duty of motion and journeying, and the heavenly constellations being idle and without guests in regard to the sun, and that the constellations which truly work are in the earth"s annual orbit and that it is the earth which journeys and performs duties in the constellations.
And God knows best what is right.

The extraordinary and unreasonable stories in some Islamic books are either isra"iliyat, or they are allegories, or they are the interpretations of the Hadith scholars, which careless people have supposed to be Hadiths and have attributed them to God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace).

O our Sustainer! Do not take us to task if we forget or do wrong.(2:282)
Glory be unto You! We have no knowledge save that which You have taught us; indeed You are All-Knowing, All-Wise.(2:32)
...from the risale-i nur collection
...source: risale-i nur collection