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negative effects of science...

graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
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4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...
Stronn
Posts: 315
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4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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4/17/2016 10:09:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Every one of those negative effects can just as easily be ascribed to organised religion.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/17/2016 10:42:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
And now, some negative effects of ignorance that science has or can prevent:

killed millions..
Polio, influenza

destroyed the planet...
Asteroids

killed babies...
Whooping cough

killed the old...
Stroke, diabetes, heart disease, tooth decay

destroyed the atmosphere...
Volcanoes

killed animals...
Natural selection (99% of species)

risked the planet...
Religious supremacism

caused wars
Bronze Age despots

encouraged wars..
Clerical ambition

encouraged hate..
Religious nationalism

destroyed families..
Patriarchal entitlement

destroyed health..
Malnutrition, disease

destroyed social activities..
Religious persecution of music, dance, theatre and art

caused obesity...
Renaissance diets

caused greed..
Economic ignorance leading to the tolerance of unethical corporate behaviour

scarred people..
Psychological ignorance

cost people their eternity...
Poorly-examined beliefs that an unverifiable eternity requires fearful, evil, servile behaviour to a corrupt, self-interested clergy have cost hundreds of generations their dignity, joy, and liberty for the whole of the precious, only lives they actually know

blinded people to the truth...
Everything but the humble, curious, brave and systematic observation of nature as it actually is, rather than as ignorant, ambitious, intolerant, malignant, nameless ancient patriarchs wished it were.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 12:06:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

To be far, it is the common abuse of science which is the problem, especially in those areas which appear to be beneficial but in fact are the opposite.

Why do you imagine Satan encourages it so much?

Why do you think it has only really come to the for since he was cast down to the earth?

Satan will use any trick he can to stop people looking at the truth, and diversionary tactics are his most common, especially those that make people think they don;t have the time to check it all out.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.

How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.

If he can fool us into thinking we don't need it, why would we look?

No-one says there aren't positive sides to it, but what good would bait be if it didn't look attractive? Who would go into the trap?

It is only when, or if, we look around us and see the cage bars that we realise it is a trap.

Some of us do that earlier than others. Some of us never do, they just keep swallowing the bait and enjoying it.


Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

No need to be sarcastic, it doesn't suit you.

There was far more intelligence, far further back than you realise. Adam was created intelligent, more intelligent than we are, but not as intelligent as he should have been.

But then intelligence never is any use unless you use it, and use it wisely.

Few ever have.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 12:20:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 10:09:42 AM, desmac wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Every one of those negative effects can just as easily be ascribed to organised religion.

Not to all organised religion.

True Christianity is 100% beneficial.

First find true Christianity and see for yourself, it's on the end of the links in my signature.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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4/17/2016 12:21:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:06:47 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Why do you imagine Satan encourages it so much?
The discussion concerns science and madman brings up one of his boogiemen. LMFAO.
What a wanker.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 12:35:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 10:42:31 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
And now, some negative effects of ignorance that science has or can prevent:

killed millions..
Polio, influenza

Influenza still kills millions. Even the vaccine is killing some now.


destroyed the planet...
Asteroids

No asteroid has ever destroyed the planet. Changed it, yes, but it's still here and still producing food. So far anyway.


killed babies...

Whooping cough

Still exists, though not at epidemic proportions.


killed the old...

As has the influenza vaccine they are now finding.

Stroke, diabetes, heart disease, tooth decay

Still endemic and down to a lifestyle mostly created by science.


destroyed the atmosphere...

Volcanoes

Volcanoes have not destroyed the atmosphere, science has created the conditions that are doing.


killed animals...
Natural selection (99% of species)

No not natural selection. Loss of habitat, hunting, science.


risked the planet...
Religious supremacism

Religious supremacism, whatever that is, has never harmed the planet, only the abuse of it by false faiths has done that.

When the true faith rules the earth all will be perfection again, and it will, soon.


caused wars
Bronze Age despots

I agree that science has never caused wars,. Human greed has done that, but science has been prominent n its propagation.


encouraged wars..
Clerical ambition

No, just human ambition, but then clerics are humans, and not part of true religion.


encouraged hate..
Religious nationalism

True religion has no nationalism and encourages only love for al humanity.


destroyed families..
Patriarchal entitlement

Disagree, though the abuse of it has.


destroyed health..
Malnutrition, disease

Often caused by science and war.


destroyed social activities..
Religious persecution of music, dance, theatre and art

caused obesity...
Renaissance diets

No just human greed and the abuse of science combined.

caused greed..
Economic ignorance leading to the tolerance of unethical corporate behaviour

And not just corporate either the whole financial system is flawed and doomed.


scarred people..
Psychological ignorance

There I have to agree. That has caused the excessive rise in science and the proliferation of false religions to the detriment of all.

The true religion relies on knowledge, not ignorance, and cannot truly exist without accurate knowledge.


cost people their eternity...
Poorly-examined beliefs that an unverifiable eternity requires fearful, evil, servile behaviour to a corrupt, self-interested clergy have cost hundreds of generations their dignity, joy, and liberty for the whole of the precious, only lives they actually know

There are many things that have cost people their eternity, most especially the beliefs of the OP.

However Jehovah is trying to attract people back on track, through hi son, to enjoy it.


blinded people to the truth...
Everything but the humble, curious, brave and systematic observation of nature as it actually is, rather than as ignorant, ambitious, intolerant, malignant, nameless ancient patriarchs wished it were.

There you are both right, but nothing has blinded people to the life giving truth than the beliefs of the OP.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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4/17/2016 12:38:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
IKR. Science is bull. Let us destroy all vaccines and tools to make our work easier. Let us go back to a society full of:

* Smallpox
* Bubonic plague
* Lack of hygiene
* Working physically hard everyday at the farm only for having nutritionally shortcoming food to make us 30% full
* Mass infant death
Impartial
Posts: 375
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4/17/2016 7:18:08 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Well then I suggest you go and find a cave to live in, then you'll be just fine.
To believe is to know nothing.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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4/17/2016 7:22:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

You forgot a very important negative effect, providing a computer, internet connection and these forums to deluded theists who hypocritically use the products of science every day of their lives, of which would be quite short and miserable without them,and then have the audacity to complain.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2016 7:59:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Has all the applications of Scientific Knowledge been "Good"? If not then it is an appropriate conversation to talk about the misapplications.

Also, well fed is a misnomer. Our food has less nutritional value each year. And this is the raw food products. It's even truer for the processed foods.

As for Clean water. Industrialization has ruined more water than it has made clean. And the "clean" water on tap is a mess of poisonous chemicals added to, get this, with the purpose of counteracting the contaminants of fertilizers, agricultural runoff, and other contaminants CAUSED by us. It's not like that water would be "dirty" if we weren't around.

Life expectancy has always been a few decades. 80 is better than 70. But a common misconception is that mankind during like the iron age had a life expectancy of 50 or something. Truth is people had many obstacles to reaching reproductive age. If someone made it to 13, well they had a good chance of living to 70-80. It's one reason why we as a species have so many children. In nature many animals have less than 10% of their young make it to reproductive age (today 97% of humans reproduce). So your "benefit" of Science hasn't increased a particular person's age. Just the amount of people reaching senior citizen status. Which has compounded overpopulation and made resources that we could naturally be in stable cycle with, now are scarce.


Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

Perhaps the OP is drawing an Analogy between how Atheist rile against the "Evils" of religion and ignore the benefits of such a cultural institution. And has elected to post a topic that illustrates the "Evils" of Science.

I think the bigger picture demonstrates the Humans, misuse anything and everything that they can.

And the discussions are viable. To investigate the misuse, the misapplication, of knowledge. And to discern what is "good" for us. And how can we mitigate the INEVITABLE misuse of knowledge and power.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 9:27:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 7:22:27 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

You forgot a very important negative effect, providing a computer, internet connection and these forums to deluded theists who hypocritically use the products of science every day of their lives, of which would be quite short and miserable without them,and then have the audacity to complain.

As with so many things, what could be a positive all too often does in deed prove to be a negative.

Cyber bullying would not be possible without the computer and it has all too often driven young ones to commit suicide.

However it does have its positives, since it allows me, and the JWs, the ability to spread truth far and wide with ease, and hopefully to save eternal lives doing so.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/17/2016 10:53:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Science is the study/observation of the natural world. Humans have committed these atrocities, not science itself. With greater knowledge of the natural world, humans can improve conditions. At the same time, however, there is an equal potential to misuse this knowledge.

This is not unique to science. All tools and things on this planet have the potential to be used properly or misused to cause detrimental effects.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/17/2016 11:04:04 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 10:53:49 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Science is the study/observation of the natural world. Humans have committed these atrocities, not science itself. With greater knowledge of the natural world, humans can improve conditions. At the same time, however, there is an equal potential to misuse this knowledge.

This is not unique to science. All tools and things on this planet have the potential to be used properly or misused to cause detrimental effects.

In a way that is my point, but put differently.

It is not science which is the problem but the abuse of it by humans.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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4/18/2016 8:43:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 11:04:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 10:53:49 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

Science is the study/observation of the natural world. Humans have committed these atrocities, not science itself. With greater knowledge of the natural world, humans can improve conditions. At the same time, however, there is an equal potential to misuse this knowledge.

This is not unique to science. All tools and things on this planet have the potential to be used properly or misused to cause detrimental effects.

In a way that is my point, but put differently.

It is not science which is the problem but the abuse of it by humans.
You preach that all science comes from satan, you are a liar.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/18/2016 9:06:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.
I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.
How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.
Let's be clear: scientific output is increasing exponentially, not decreasing. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...] So it's not like science has made scientists complacent and incurious about remedying their own discipline's' ignorance and error.

Yet that falsehood aside, because science is succeeding in making us safer, healthier, kinder and more productive you'd like us to believe it's an intellectual liability?

And if it were failing, that would make it... an intellectual liability too, no?

Do you know what it means when someone makes an argument that construes all evidence in favour of their proposition, whatever evidence it is?

It means the person you're talking to isn't competent to argue with, much less pronounce on science.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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4/18/2016 9:09:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:06:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.
I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.
How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.
Let's be clear: scientific output is increasing exponentially, not decreasing. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...] So it's not like science has made scientists complacent and incurious about remedying their own discipline's' ignorance and error.

Yet that falsehood aside, because science is succeeding in making us safer, healthier, kinder and more productive you'd like us to believe it's an intellectual liability?

And if it were failing, that would make it... an intellectual liability too, no?

Do you know what it means when someone makes an argument that construes all evidence in favour of their proposition, whatever evidence it is?

It means the person you're talking to isn't competent to argue with, much less pronounce on science.

Draba, your replies are genuine, candid and.. tasteless.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/18/2016 9:48:22 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:09:00 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 4/18/2016 9:06:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.
I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.
How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.
Let's be clear: scientific output is increasing exponentially, not decreasing. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...] So it's not like science has made scientists complacent and incurious about remedying their own discipline's' ignorance and error.

Yet that falsehood aside, because science is succeeding in making us safer, healthier, kinder and more productive you'd like us to believe it's an intellectual liability?

And if it were failing, that would make it... an intellectual liability too, no?

Do you know what it means when someone makes an argument that construes all evidence in favour of their proposition, whatever evidence it is?

It means the person you're talking to isn't competent to argue with, much less pronounce on science.

Draba, your replies are genuine, candid and.. tasteless.

Hi Riwaz... thank you for your criticism, which I found as constructive as it was respectful.

In order to do it justice, I paused a moment, and tried to feel even a moment's regret for criticising the dishonest rhetoric to which I'd responded, but confess that I failed. :(
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/18/2016 10:22:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 9:06:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.
I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.
How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.
Let's be clear: scientific output is increasing exponentially, not decreasing. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...] So it's not like science has made scientists complacent and incurious about remedying their own discipline's' ignorance and error.

Yes, it's output is increasing, it si just a shame that the value of that output is dacreasing at an equivalent rate,


Yet that falsehood aside, because science is succeeding in making us safer, healthier, kinder and more productive you'd like us to believe it's an intellectual liability?

No, it is just making us feel it, but it will prove to be an illusion.


And if it were failing, that would make it... an intellectual liability too, no?

When abused, as it so often is, it is a liability in every sense of the word.


Do you know what it means when someone makes an argument that construes all evidence in favour of their proposition, whatever evidence it is?

Yes, they are usually called scientists.


It means the person you're talking to isn't competent to argue with, much less pronounce on science.

Agreed, and currently that fits you.

I look on science as I look on everything, from Jehovah's viewpoint.

Since very little of it helps us progress on the road to knowledge of God, it is useless to us, since in the end knowledge of God is the only thing with eternal benefits, and frankly, who cares about the short term. Just as Jesus said John 17:3.

Where science helps us prove the existence of God, and it does, there it has value.

Where it goes against God it is about as much use as well-used toilet paper.
tarantula
Posts: 849
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4/18/2016 10:58:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

The evil deity is much worse!
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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4/18/2016 11:06:05 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:22:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I look on science as I look on everything, from Jehovah's viewpoint.
He watches TV with you? Cos that's where you get your "knowledge" [sic] of science.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/18/2016 11:57:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:58:50 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 4/16/2016 11:36:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
killed millions..
destroyed the planet...
killed babies...
killed the old...
destroyed the atmosphere...
killed animals...
risked the planet...
caused wars
encouraged wars..
encouraged hate..
destroyed families..
destroyed health..
destroyed social activities..
caused obesity...
caused greed..
scarred people..
cost people there eternity...
blinded people to the truth...

The evil deity is much worse!

True, but the True God is perfect, Loving, Just, Merciful and Wise.

So is his son.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/18/2016 5:39:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 10:22:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/18/2016 9:06:00 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/17/2016 12:18:56 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.
I don;t think you understand what the real irony of that it.
How better to distract us from searching for the truth than to make us feel comfortable and secure.
Let's be clear: scientific output is increasing exponentially, not decreasing. [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...] So it's not like science has made scientists complacent and incurious about remedying their own discipline's' ignorance and error.
Yes, it's output is increasing, it is just a shame that the value of that output is decreasing at an equivalent rate,
You cannot evaluate it yourself, and the people you trust to evaluate it for you, cannot do so either because they lack the methods to do so.

Yet that falsehood aside, because science is succeeding in making us safer, healthier, kinder and more productive you'd like us to believe it's an intellectual liability?
No, it is just making us feel it, but it will prove to be an illusion.
Or your lazy self-satisfaction will.

Given that all the intellectual effort lies on the side of science, while you make no effort of your own at all, I wish you lack in your hope that indolent, closed-mindedness will nevertheless produce truth. :(

Do you know what it means when someone makes an argument that construes all evidence in favour of their proposition, whatever evidence it is?
Yes, they are usually called scientists.
Except that scientists routinely do three things you never do, MCB:
1) seek to falsify their beliefs;
2) diligently gather evidence to do so; and
3) seek and accept independent critique on their methods.

Consequently, they also are able to achieve three things that I've also never seen you accomplish:
1) Admit ignorance before someone else points it out;
2) Change their minds accountably; and
3) Improve their methods.

It means the person you're talking to isn't competent to argue with, much less pronounce on science.
I look on science as I look on everything, from Jehovah's viewpoint.
Were you more honest, you'd admit that you have a rigid viewpoint you hope is Jehovah's. And it's not even your viewpoint, but a doctrinal perspective provided to you, which you dare not question for fear of having to do your own thinking.

Since very little of it helps us progress on the road to knowledge of God,
Here's a sad thing, MCB: setting aside our religious differences, science knows vast amounts of information about this world, which was never written into any ancient Israelite scripture, and is thus largely unknown to the people you've elected to trust to interpret those scriptures for you.

If this world were created by a wise, benevolent being then the people you trust to interpret your canon to you are being ignorant by ignoring this information. And to the extent that better understanding the challenges and vicissitudes inherent in our lives and words can help us do better at whatever we attempt, in making you fear this information, those people are also treating you unjustly and cruelly.

frankly, who cares about the short term.
What you've called 'the short term' is the entire duration of the only life into which you have ever been born, in which you can strive to overcome your own physical, intellectual and social adversities, can build compassion, acquire knowledge, reflect, make choices, and inspire, protect and nurture others...

...or not.

In this precious life of yours, which you have dismissed as the short term, you have elected to hang off the dogmatic teat of the conceited and ignorant like a suckling babe, hoping that this -- your unique life -- is not all there is.

Because if you're wrong, MCB, then you've tragically wasted nearly all of it on moral cowardice and intellectual laziness.

Where science helps us prove the existence of God, and it does, there it has value.
You don't understand what science is. If you did, you'd know that it has not, and never shall, prove God.

What science is best at is helping ignorant, fearful people identify and amend their own ignorance and error, and become more self-responsible for what they don't know.

And given what I understand to be your intellectual laziness and moral cowardice, I completely understand why that is of no use to you, and why you'd like to hear instead a fairytale story about science told by people who do not understand it themselves.

And as irritating as it is to see an ignorant old man squander the wisdom that should have come from his years, and preach falsehoods nobody is listening to, which he himself cannot and dare not test for truth, I also appreciate why your own fear makes you want to do that.

As irritating as that is, MCB, it's less that this forum deserves better, than that you do. You deserve better than the anxious, dependent prison you have let others make for you.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
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4/20/2016 8:44:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

I was merely pointing out that you can make something look bad by just producing a list....lol
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/20/2016 8:45:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 8:44:44 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

I was merely pointing out that you can make something look bad by just producing a list....lol

You can.
Provided the readership is equally inane.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/20/2016 8:47:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 8:44:44 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

I was merely pointing out that you can make something look bad by just producing a list....lol

What, afraid now to back up your words and have to pretend it was some kind of joke? One word for that.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
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4/20/2016 8:49:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 8:47:56 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/20/2016 8:44:44 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/17/2016 5:51:50 AM, Stronn wrote:
I trust I'm not alone in seeing the irony of being well-fed, with abundant clean water on tap, a life expectancy approaching 80 years, medical assistance within minutes when necessary, the ability to travel miles away within minutes at whim, while sitting in a comfortable chair in a climate-controlled room in front of a computer connected to the rest of humanity, with the breadth of all human knowledge at your fingertips, while ranting against the evils of science.

Perhaps the OP would be happier inscribing his or her rant on a clay tablet amid the filth of a dark age hut. Except that any neighbors would likely be illiterate.

I was merely pointing out that you can make something look bad by just producing a list....lol

What, afraid now to back up your words and have to pretend it was some kind of joke? One word for that.

It was as said a response to a stupid thread someone else started...you can list negatives to everything..

but I would still back up the list as true... if you viewed things in the most negative way.
PureX
Posts: 1,519
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4/20/2016 8:53:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Science is just a method we use to learn about how the material world works. What we do with that knowledge isn't science unless what we're doing with it is seeking more information via the scientific method about how the material world works.

So the effect of science on humanity has only been that we know more, now, than we used to, about how the material universe functions. The technology that has resulted from that knowledge is not science, it's technology. And it's technology that is being debated, here, it seems.

Yet technology itself is really just a tool, or a collection of tools that we can use for good or for ill, depending on our own moral and ethical inclinations. So that ultimately, it's not the fault of science or technology when we use this new knowledge and it's application to do ourselves and each other harm.

That's our own choice, and therefor our own fault.