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If Atheists met God would it even matter?

brontoraptor
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4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/18/2016 11:05:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Obviously if a God made itself obvious I would acknowledge it existed.

It's similar to asking if i saw a flying donkey would i acknowledge flying donkeys exist.

If something that has never previously been observed is observed I would obviously change my mind on whether it was a make believe myth or a real thing.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
missmedic
Posts: 387
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4/18/2016 11:30:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

There's no practical difference between the existence and non-existence of any gods. So why would it matter?
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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4/18/2016 11:36:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Most people would experience something called the Stockholm syndrome in that case, making them conform themselves after their perpetrator.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 12:05:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:05:17 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Obviously if a God made itself obvious I would acknowledge it existed.

It's similar to asking if i saw a flying donkey would i acknowledge flying donkeys exist.

If something that has never previously been observed is observed I would obviously change my mind on whether it was a make believe myth or a real thing.

Would you reach to Him or tell Him to buzz off?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 12:07:32 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Looks like proof that evidence isn't the issue. This is a matter of the heart.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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4/19/2016 12:20:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
...hmmm, should we even answer, or will Bronto interpret answers to match his preconceptions?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/19/2016 12:23:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:05:49 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:05:17 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Obviously if a God made itself obvious I would acknowledge it existed.

It's similar to asking if i saw a flying donkey would i acknowledge flying donkeys exist.

If something that has never previously been observed is observed I would obviously change my mind on whether it was a make believe myth or a real thing.

Would you reach to Him or tell Him to buzz off?

I would be very interested in taking to a god, it would be great to learn lots of things previously unknown to humanity.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2016 1:02:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

This is an fallacious argument hypothetical contrary to fact.

It's like making a point by imaging a hypothetical situation in which the conclusion is true, and then extrapolating it is true in this unimagined world as well.

But since we are talking hypothetically and we are all free to make blatant conjectures, I'll say EVEN if GOD came to Earth in a fiery tornado, Atheist would still reject him.

They would think they were hallucinating, they would think they were observing an alien (a culture to meet, not a deity to worship), or think it was a natural phenomenon that EXPLAINS the observations written in Holy Scriptures, or it was a man made attempt to gain control of the populace. or...

No. Even if that happened Atheist would not believe.

They will only bow down to God AFTER they have died.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/19/2016 1:11:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

How would you know that it was a benign, honest, wise, sole creator of the universe, a supreme power and unique in all existence?

If all we observed was er... wind and light, that could have many explanations, couldn't it?

So it wouldn't be God, so much as a phenomenon you conjectured as God.

And if this bothers you as being unfair and slippery, consider how unfair and slippery it is to conjecture a being you could never reliably recognise in the first place, no matter how many wonders you saw... and then despite your abject and uncorrectable ignorance, to nevertheless insist you know when that being has spoken, and what it wants.
Casten
Posts: 391
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4/19/2016 1:33:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Also, can you define "tornadic vacuum of light"? What exactly is a vacuum of light?

Is "tornadic" a real word? Because it sounds like a really useful adjective I could have used in my vocabulary before now.

"You are being a tornadic b*tch right now."
"I have a tornadic hangover."
"This is a tornadic freaking disaster."
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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4/19/2016 2:30:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

This reminds me of when gullible people claim to have seen visions of Mary or Jesus. How the hell could anyone recognize Mary or Jesus? How could anyone recognize God? How would you know it wasn't the Devil instead?
matt8800
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4/19/2016 2:41:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

If Shiva descended from the sky, would you care?
frootloopcoup
Posts: 7
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4/19/2016 5:21:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I assimilate knowledge daily. I learn new things, develop new skills, etc. Assuming that God had descended to earth, and assuming that he spoke to the world as a whole, I would definitively have to accept the truth of the matter. That said, I am still unsure if I would embrace God, as I find many of his teachings to be morally questionable. I'd need a great many questions answered before I decided whither or not to become a Satanist and hope aboard the Lucifer train.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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4/19/2016 5:26:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

At this point, i think god would respect Atheist more than any theist. Yes, there are many idiots in both theists and atheists, i am not judging it from that. Atheists/agnostics are shouting in peoples ears, "wake up, this might (convincingly looks like) be the only world you live in." This is a message for everyone to know - that this right now, the earth our eyes are open, is our current paradise.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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4/19/2016 12:14:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

During the millennial reign of Christ rebellious people will still exist ,as scripture says and Satan will be loosed to temporarily tempt man one last time, and some will follow. This will happen with Christ fully visible upon His throne, so obviously it will make no difference to some.
Athomos
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4/19/2016 12:27:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

You've already established your profuse ignorance on the topic of atheism. Some like to parade their ignorance aas thought it were a war medal.

If God descended I'd say Hi. If indeed He were the God of the Bible, I'd add the following:

"Next to you, Hitler, Stalin and Mao suddenly seem like boy scouts".

Does this answer your question?
Or were you never interested in an answer in the first place?
The-Holy-Macrel
Posts: 777
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4/19/2016 12:31:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Maybe and probably not.

.

.

At 4/19/2016 12:23:01 PM, The-Holy-Macrel wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:13:19 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Since scmike2 loves to brag about how you all read his posts and see just how all of his challengers are blatantly demonstrating the inconsistency and absurdity of their worldviews... Please stand up and show us all that you are not imaginary.

*Sits back and waits for this thread to fade into loneliness for all eternity...*

Wow, Double_R, I'm flattered by all the attention here! I mean, to begin with that's two separate posts you've put up about me in the same day---definitely a first for me here!!

Then there's the fact that it's all because you didn't want to deal with my challenges to your position here:

http://www.debate.org...

After all, what else should intellectual honesty force one to make of such elaborate evasion other than it being the sure sign of a very weak, logically deficient position? Priceless!


Probably to clear it off another OP, and thank you for (finally) getting the hint on that.

Why should anyone believe that conclusion about D.R.'s elaborate evasion instead of the one I proposed above?

Because you claim ultimate authority, asked a series of why should questions, then acquiesced to the requests made of you.

By what rational authority SHOULD one arbitrarily engage in elaborate evasion of ultimate authority claims and 'why should' questions about their position, or shouldn't they?

And thank you that. Not some weird concession or what not about your position, but acting like a decent forum-ite and going where its appropriate.

'Decent' and 'appropriate' according to whom? Why SHOULD their standard necessarily apply to me, or shouldn't it?

Why SHOULD anyone answer your questions?

Why SHOULD anyone actually worship God, even if He exists?

Because he was flayed to a point where he was un-recognizable, had to drag a really freakin' heavy wood t later to be nailed to it so he would die of exaustion.

So because some one had a horrible awful rotten really bad no good day, I should worship some other entity? That makes no sense.

That was to prove his love. And it was volentary.

You freakin' owe him and all you have to do to live forever in heaven is call him the lord of your life and go to church.

I "owe" Him. That is why I "should" do such. I owe this character something, even though whatever is cannot be seen touched or felt, traded as a commodity, and yet He "died" for it, that being an immortal entity with unfathomable power "died".

For three days. But then got better.

I owe him for what, then exactly? 3 days?

You still aren't answering "should". Why -should- I owe Him for that? (if you find this line of question absurd, take a stroll back through this post and see whom uses it for argumentation.)

Dank memes...

Good one.

This is why the old testament didn't work.

But you would get heaven as a reward.

And will either cease to exist or go to hell if you don't.

(assuming he exists)

But is it really so bad to be a christian?

But still good point....

But because he wants you to?

That seems legit.

Or that like a parent he wants the best for you.

But this parent is perfectly righteous.

And what this entity would want for
you is the absolute best thing for you.

But you still have free will.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/19/2016 12:42:37 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Ask yourself how many listened to his only begotten son when on earth.

That's your answer. Those who didn't want to believe didn't.

It is oh so true today, since most prefer to believe in Satan's counterfeits like the trinity.

Just as the majority back then preferred the more comfortable, at least through familiarity, trap of Judaism.

How long did the faith of the Jews last after passing through the Red Sea so miraculously?

You would have thought the sight of the waters parting, with the two walls at least two miles apart, leaving them with perfectly dry ground to cross on rapidly as they needed to would have had some lasting effect wouldn't you, let alone those same waters coming crashing back completely destroying the Pharaonic Army and no doubt burying it under metres of silt.

Well did it?

How long was it before they started making the Golden Calf, completely against what they had been told?

I could site so many more examples of miracles, like for instance the events on the pains of Aijalon.

People ask for miracles because they don't think they will get them and don;t want to either. Hence Jesus reaction when the Pharisees asked him for a sign.

No, miracles have a very short shelf life. Only education works, and that is why Jehovah and his son use the JWs to provide exactly that.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 1:03:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:42:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:o
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Ask yourself how many listened to his only begotten son when on earth.

That's your answer. Those who didn't want to believe didn't.

It is oh so true today, since most prefer to believe in Satan's counterfeits like the trinity.

Just as the majority back then preferred the more comfortable, at least through familiarity, trap of Judaism.

How long did the faith of the Jews last after passing through the Red Sea so miraculously?

You would have thought the sight of the waters parting, with the two walls at least two miles apart, leaving them with perfectly dry ground to cross on rapidly as they needed to would have had some lasting effect wouldn't you, let alone those same waters coming crashing back completely destroying the Pharaonic Army and no doubt burying it under metres of silt.

Well did it?

How long was it before they started making the Golden Calf, completely against what they had been told?

I could site so many more examples of miracles, like for instance the events on the pains of Aijalon.

People ask for miracles because they don't think they will get them and don;t want to either. Hence Jesus reaction when the Pharisees asked him for a sign.

No, miracles have a very short shelf life. Only education works, and that is why Jehovah and his son use the JWs to provide exactly that.

The trinity has nothing to do with seperate beings. Early JW's had no philosophical understanding, so they came up with something they thought they could understand. Sadly, it's not hard to understand. God is not bound or limited by our concept of time. My 5 year old self is me, yet him. My image in the mirror is me, yet it. My 70 year old self is me, yet him.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 1:04:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
If I play a 3D video game, the character is me, and yet it or him.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/19/2016 1:15:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:04:35 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If I play a 3D video game, the character is me, and yet it or him.

No the character is not you, you are playing a role.

You can never be him because like the trinity that avatar doesn't actually exist.

You connot prove the trinity without referring to the words of men or to inaccurate translations.

I can disprove it from any translation and have done many times over.

The Bible itself says to put faith n Jehovah not man, you are defying that instruction.

Unlike you I am a Beroean by nature Acts 17:10-11. I do not believe anything that is not thoroughly supported in scripture.

The trinity is not, not even in the dishonest translations corrupted to support it.

If you continue loving the lie you will be destroyed with it. The truth is in front of you, even in your dishonest translations, Christ will accept no excuses for refusing to accept it.

Wake up before it is too late.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/19/2016 1:18:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:03:39 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:42:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:o
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Ask yourself how many listened to his only begotten son when on earth.

That's your answer. Those who didn't want to believe didn't.

It is oh so true today, since most prefer to believe in Satan's counterfeits like the trinity.

Just as the majority back then preferred the more comfortable, at least through familiarity, trap of Judaism.

How long did the faith of the Jews last after passing through the Red Sea so miraculously?

You would have thought the sight of the waters parting, with the two walls at least two miles apart, leaving them with perfectly dry ground to cross on rapidly as they needed to would have had some lasting effect wouldn't you, let alone those same waters coming crashing back completely destroying the Pharaonic Army and no doubt burying it under metres of silt.

Well did it?

How long was it before they started making the Golden Calf, completely against what they had been told?

I could site so many more examples of miracles, like for instance the events on the pains of Aijalon.

People ask for miracles because they don't think they will get them and don;t want to either. Hence Jesus reaction when the Pharisees asked him for a sign.

No, miracles have a very short shelf life. Only education works, and that is why Jehovah and his son use the JWs to provide exactly that.

The trinity has nothing to do with seperate beings. Early JW's had no philosophical understanding, so they came up with something they thought they could understand. Sadly, it's not hard to understand. God is not bound or limited by our concept of time. My 5 year old self is me, yet him. My image in the mirror is me, yet it. My 70 year old self is me, yet him.

Then you don;t even know your own false teachings.

No your 5 year old self was not as you are now. You have changed, you are different.

Nor is he your son.

Your reflection in the mirror is not only not you it is back to front, mirror image.
The image is not the reality it is merely an image of the reality, as Christ is of his father.

You do come up with some dumb analogies.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 1:23:37 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:42:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Ask yourself how many listened to his only begotten son when on earth.

That's your answer. Those who didn't want to believe didn't.

It is oh so true today, since most prefer to believe in Satan's counterfeits like the trinity.

Just as the majority back then preferred the more comfortable, at least through familiarity, trap of Judaism.

How long did the faith of the Jews last after passing through the Red Sea so miraculously?

You would have thought the sight of the waters parting, with the two walls at least two miles apart, leaving them with perfectly dry ground to cross on rapidly as they needed to would have had some lasting effect wouldn't you, let alone those same waters coming crashing back completely destroying the Pharaonic Army and no doubt burying it under metres of silt.

Well did it?

How long was it before they started making the Golden Calf, completely against what they had been told?

I could site so many more examples of miracles, like for instance the events on the pains of Aijalon.

People ask for miracles because they don't think they will get them and don;t want to either. Hence Jesus reaction when the Pharisees asked him for a sign.

No, miracles have a very short shelf life. Only education works, and that is why Jehovah and his son use the JWs to provide exactly that.

And yet another problem with JWism is that the Bible fortold a "falling away" from the true faith. JW is on the rise, not a decline.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/19/2016 1:54:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

This is an fallacious argument hypothetical contrary to fact.

It's like making a point by imaging a hypothetical situation in which the conclusion is true, and then extrapolating it is true in this unimagined world as well.

But since we are talking hypothetically and we are all free to make blatant conjectures, I'll say EVEN if GOD came to Earth in a fiery tornado, Atheist would still reject him.

They would think they were hallucinating, they would think they were observing an alien (a culture to meet, not a deity to worship), or think it was a natural phenomenon that EXPLAINS the observations written in Holy Scriptures, or it was a man made attempt to gain control of the populace. or...

No. Even if that happened Atheist would not believe.

They will only bow down to God AFTER they have died.

Im sure some atheists wouldnt, much like im sure there are some Muslims who would not believe it if Jesus Christ had his second coming and stated that Christianity was true and Islam was false and vice versa.

But thats the great thing about God, if he does exist, would know what it would take to convince ALL atheists that he exists.
bulproof
Posts: 25,253
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4/19/2016 1:59:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
If Atheists met God would it even matter?

Which one?
If christians met Ganesha would it even matter?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/19/2016 2:09:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:23:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:42:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:00:25 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If God suddenly descended from the sky in a tornadic vacuum of light would they care?

Ask yourself how many listened to his only begotten son when on earth.

That's your answer. Those who didn't want to believe didn't.

It is oh so true today, since most prefer to believe in Satan's counterfeits like the trinity.

Just as the majority back then preferred the more comfortable, at least through familiarity, trap of Judaism.

How long did the faith of the Jews last after passing through the Red Sea so miraculously?

You would have thought the sight of the waters parting, with the two walls at least two miles apart, leaving them with perfectly dry ground to cross on rapidly as they needed to would have had some lasting effect wouldn't you, let alone those same waters coming crashing back completely destroying the Pharaonic Army and no doubt burying it under metres of silt.

Well did it?

How long was it before they started making the Golden Calf, completely against what they had been told?

I could site so many more examples of miracles, like for instance the events on the pains of Aijalon.

People ask for miracles because they don't think they will get them and don;t want to either. Hence Jesus reaction when the Pharisees asked him for a sign.

No, miracles have a very short shelf life. Only education works, and that is why Jehovah and his son use the JWs to provide exactly that.

And yet another problem with JWism is that the Bible fortold a "falling away" from the true faith. JW is on the rise, not a decline.

Yes but the falling away happened at the end of the 1st century when the Apostasy set in.

However, yes they are still growing with Jehovah's blessing, but the growth rate is slowing, and I am positive it will drop when times get really tough, because not all are in it for the right reasons.

Some are in it purely for the hope of surviving, that is too selfish a motive.

There are only two reasons to be a JW and Jesus quoted both of them when asked by a Pharisee what is the most important command in the law.

Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:5
5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

Which of course is one of the many places where the KJV has dishonestly removed Jehovah's name,

and he quoted the part I shall embolden in Leviticus 19:18
18 ""You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah.

Which is of course yet another verse they have dishonestly removed it from.

If you are, as a JW would say, not in the truth for both of those reasons, then the truth is not in you, yet.

That doesn't mean it won't get there of course but those who don;t have it will have to learn it, hence the ministry is a good training ground. Especially since those who survive Armageddon, and those who get an early resurrection will have to teach those who did not get a proper chance to learn before.

It also teaches you the patience to keep knocking on doors that never open, lol.

No, it matters not how you cut it, scripture proves that the JWs truly are God's path for our enlightenment, and their unpopularity simply helps confirm that.

It doesn't matter if you like it, and who does? I know I didn't, all that matters is that you accept it for what it is.
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 2:10:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:59:29 PM, bulproof wrote:
If Atheists met God would it even matter?

Which one?
If christians met Ganesha would it even matter?

They won't get the chance because he will be destroyed along with all other false gods.