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Lot meets angels, lets mob rape his daughters

Chloe8
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4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
RoderickSpode
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4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.
12_13
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4/19/2016 6:22:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women.

It tells more about how much they valued their quest and didn"t allow their male quests be gang raped by a gay mob. It tells also something about mobs and how sick and evil they can be.
Trollord
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4/19/2016 6:30:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.

Added to post number three.

God loves messed up people.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 6:38:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.

Oh, the Bible, that paragon of virtue.

It's ok. God had incest in mind when he decided to have mankind spring from a single couple.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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4/19/2016 6:38:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.

Eeh, all your crap is the same so I don't see who would care, you cherry pick OT passages you think are immoral and you direct them where they don't belong. Got anything new? any questions for Christians that are relevant to them??
You need to be asking orthodox Jews why they did this and that and wrote this and that, it is not our business to answer for them or their beliefs, choices or laws.
If you don't know what a Christian is and an orthodox Jew you probably shouldn't be asking us questions in the first place.
Rather it only reveals your pesky anger problems you have with Christianity and Christians.
FaustianJustice
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4/19/2016 6:43:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.

... Lot was supposed to be part of the righteous that Abraham was arguing for.

Never mind the fact that he got blasted out of his mind twice in a row in some cave out in the middle of no where and railed his daughters....
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 6:50:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:38:38 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.

Eeh, all your crap is the same so I don't see who would care, you cherry pick OT passages you think are immoral and you direct them where they don't belong. Got anything new? any questions for Christians that are relevant to them??
You need to be asking orthodox Jews why they did this and that and wrote this and that, it is not our business to answer for them or their beliefs, choices or laws.
If you don't know what a Christian is and an orthodox Jew you probably shouldn't be asking us questions in the first place.
Rather it only reveals your pesky anger problems you have with Christianity and Christians.

Actually, your post comes across as extremely aggressive. That'd be ok, as long as there were some underlying substance.

Off the top of my head I can name several Christian denominations who endorse the bible, word for word, including the OT. Please, don't play the apologist True Scotsman cheap trick of carefully selecting which denominations should be considered Christian in order to conveniently root the embarrassing problem out. At least these denominations show the testicles to stand by their convictions. Jesus was a Jew and said of himself as fulfilling the Law.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Don't be a revisionist.

Anyway, the New testament is as immoral as the Old. Here, God is said to be destroying more than half of the population during Armageddon.
That's more than 3 500 000 000 people.

God, the mass murderer.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Casten
Posts: 391
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4/19/2016 8:55:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I honestly don't like to think about this particular story as it is one of the most horrifying in the whole Bible. Damn, Lot. That's cold.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 9:30:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

Actually the story raises many problems, of diverse nature. I could think of several possible solutions before even - if ever, if at all - contemplating offering my daughters to appease a mob of rapists.

Angels are said to be considerably more powerful than squads of men. ? Angels are also said to able to dematerialize.Didn't Lot knew this? Given said angels were God's emissaries why didn't he jump to the conclusion God would intervene to protect them? Why didn't God tell Lot, "Listen, I will intervene to have the angels I've sent", so Lot wouldn't even dream of sacrificing his daughters?

There is a consistent theme throughout the bible of rotten morality that extends out of the OT into the NT. This, for example, is simply sickening:

Matthew 19

8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

According to Jesus you cannot divorce except on grounds of sexual immorality, notably adultery. You might as well not feel an ounce of love for your husband, fight over each and every mundane thing, have no common interests, dread his company, the stench he leaves on the bed sheets, Christ still says: "you cannot divorce the guy. The two of you are shackled together to a life of misery and gloomy unhappiness over a "Yes" you said publicly some distant decades ago."

That's Christianity for you.

I say this is madness, cruel madness, a sadist's recipe for human unhappiness and that it must be rejected and exposed and fought against with every breath, up until our last breath.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 9:57:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.

It should condemn lot's actions. The story implies lot's actions were ok as he spared the angels from being raped by the mob of supposedly homosexual men. The bible implies that while angels are high and mighty women are simply property which men can do as they please with.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Trollord
Posts: 275
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4/19/2016 9:59:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 9:57:29 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.

It should condemn lot's actions. The story implies lot's actions were ok as he spared the angels from being raped by the mob of supposedly homosexual men. The bible implies that while angels are high and mighty women are simply property which men can do as they please with.

They are genderless.

Have you heard the bible describe a frickin' war angel?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/19/2016 10:01:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:22:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women.

It tells more about how much they valued their quest and didn"t allow their male quests be gang raped by a gay mob. It tells also something about mobs and how sick and evil they can be.

Agree mobs are often sick and evil as this mob appears to be. However in no circumstances should a father agree for an evil mob to rape his daughters. It's absurd he took this approach. It shows how little value biblical writers placed on women.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Trollord
Posts: 275
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4/19/2016 10:03:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:01:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:22:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women.

It tells more about how much they valued their quest and didn"t allow their male quests be gang raped by a gay mob. It tells also something about mobs and how sick and evil they can be.

Agree mobs are often sick and evil as this mob appears to be. However in no circumstances should a father agree for an evil mob to rape his daughters. It's absurd he took this approach. It shows how little value biblical writers placed on women.

Oh my goodness.

They were just writing what happened.

It doesn't mean it was right.

Btw i still love arguing with you. <3

(i am The-Holy-Macrel, made a new account)
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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4/19/2016 10:04:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Rather than see the sacrifices of Lot to save messengers from God which would be the solemn duty of God fearing people, you focus on the physical act of rape. Like all women you latch on to the sexual acts as your primary interest and obsession and forget the serious implication of a city condemned and eventually destroyed.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 10:10:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:38:38 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.

Eeh, all your crap is the same so I don't see who would care, you cherry pick OT passages you think are immoral and you direct them where they don't belong. Got anything new? any questions for Christians that are relevant to them??
You need to be asking orthodox Jews why they did this and that and wrote this and that, it is not our business to answer for them or their beliefs, choices or laws.
If you don't know what a Christian is and an orthodox Jew you probably shouldn't be asking us questions in the first place.
Rather it only reveals your pesky anger problems you have with Christianity and Christians.

This is a debate website. We are all free to make whatever threads we want. I know the difference between Judaism and Christianity obviously but the fact is your holy book contains this verse and so many others that make Christians uncomfortable. I also quote from the new testament and often use things allegedly said by Jesus himself.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." " Matthew 5:18-19

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19)
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 10:10:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

It has nothing to do with sexism.

The Angels were his guests even though he did not realise they were Angels, he could not allow them to be molested. The only alternative Lot could offer was his daughters, he did not have the ability to stand against them any other way.

The Angels appreciated the gesture, broke cover and made sure the gesture didn't need to be carried out.

Ironically, if you follow the account through Lot's daughters later got Lot drunk and raped him, and thus became mothers to two nations that proved to be thorns in Israel's side later on Ammon and Moab.

You go to a great deal of effort to slander Jehovah and his people.

I hope you don't regret it too much when your turn for judgement comes, as it inevitably will.

Of course you could always come off Satan's side of the fence and get on Jehovah's and accept the marvellous things he is offering to any who wish to accept them, and the Ts and Cs that go with them.

Even if you wake up in time to benefit yourself I can promise you that you will find it harder to forgive yourself for being so unjust than it will for Jehovah to forgive you.

Believe me, I know from personal experience.

Learning from other people's mistakes is far less painful than having to learn from your own.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 10:13:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

That's irrelevant. The fact the bible states lot offered the women to the mob cannot be disputed. The fact he was prepared to let a mob rape his daughters shows how little he cared about them.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Trollord
Posts: 275
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4/19/2016 10:16:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:13:59 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

That's irrelevant. The fact the bible states lot offered the women to the mob cannot be disputed. The fact he was prepared to let a mob rape his daughters shows how little he cared about them.

OFFERRED!!!!!!!!

OFFERRED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still doesn't make it right though.
brontoraptor
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4/19/2016 10:22:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 9:30:13 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

Actually the story raises many problems, of diverse nature. I could think of several possible solutions before even - if ever, if at all - contemplating offering my daughters to appease a mob of rapists.

Angels are said to be considerably more powerful than squads of men. ? Angels are also said to able to dematerialize.Didn't Lot knew this? Given said angels were God's emissaries why didn't he jump to the conclusion God would intervene to protect them? Why didn't God tell Lot, "Listen, I will intervene to have the angels I've sent", so Lot wouldn't even dream of sacrificing his daughters?

There is a consistent theme throughout the bible of rotten morality that extends out of the OT into the NT. This, for example, is simply sickening:

Matthew 19

8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

According to Jesus you cannot divorce except on grounds of sexual immorality, notably adultery. You might as well not feel an ounce of love for your husband, fight over each and every mundane thing, have no common interests, dread his company, the stench he leaves on the bed sheets, Christ still says: "you cannot divorce the guy. The two of you are shackled together to a life of misery and gloomy unhappiness over a "Yes" you said publicly some distant decades ago."

That's Christianity for you.

I say this is madness, cruel madness, a sadist's recipe for human unhappiness and that it must be rejected and exposed and fought against with every breath, up until our last breath.

Not actually. Christ taught the principles of true and pure righteousness. He taught the highest standard to all. He expected couples to live in Christ and stay together in a union of Christ as a unit. The modern idea of romance and getty feelings was meaningless to his concept of marriage. If 2 people stayed in Christ, forgiveness, mercy, patience, etc etc will keep the union together. He considered adultery as breaking of the union. You must realise he constantly used the concept of unity and oneness, and covenants. If both people truely love, and I'm not speaking of romance, there is zero reason to break that covenant. If both people stayed in Christ, there should be no marriage that resembles your example. You have forsaken the idea that he forgave the thief on the cross, an adulterer, and the one who denied him 3 times. Obviously He understood no one was perfect. No one was truely "good" by a perfect standard.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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4/19/2016 10:26:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:13:59 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

That's irrelevant. The fact the bible states lot offered the women to the mob cannot be disputed. The fact he was prepared to let a mob rape his daughters shows how little he cared about them.

That is on Lot. It's not teaching us to "be like Lot and give our daughters out to rapists." Cain killed Abel. This isn't a command for me to kill my brother.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 10:28:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 9:59:49 PM, Trollord wrote:
At 4/19/2016 9:57:29 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.

It should condemn lot's actions. The story implies lot's actions were ok as he spared the angels from being raped by the mob of supposedly homosexual men. The bible implies that while angels are high and mighty women are simply property which men can do as they please with.

They are genderless.

They are always addressed as males and have male names. I agree they don't have male genitalia though.

Have you heard the bible describe a frickin' war angel?

Yes I've read about the war in heaven. It made me laugh actually.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 10:30:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:22:39 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/19/2016 9:30:13 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:53:29 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Lot isn't the moral compass of Christians for starters. The Bible is filled eith examples of god's servants doing ungodly things. That's the whole point of many Biblical stories, the price for playing with fire.

And if you actually read the story, Lot's dsughters were not raped, so Chloe has invented a strawman story.

Actually the story raises many problems, of diverse nature. I could think of several possible solutions before even - if ever, if at all - contemplating offering my daughters to appease a mob of rapists.

Angels are said to be considerably more powerful than squads of men. ? Angels are also said to able to dematerialize.Didn't Lot knew this? Given said angels were God's emissaries why didn't he jump to the conclusion God would intervene to protect them? Why didn't God tell Lot, "Listen, I will intervene to have the angels I've sent", so Lot wouldn't even dream of sacrificing his daughters?

There is a consistent theme throughout the bible of rotten morality that extends out of the OT into the NT. This, for example, is simply sickening:

Matthew 19

8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

According to Jesus you cannot divorce except on grounds of sexual immorality, notably adultery. You might as well not feel an ounce of love for your husband, fight over each and every mundane thing, have no common interests, dread his company, the stench he leaves on the bed sheets, Christ still says: "you cannot divorce the guy. The two of you are shackled together to a life of misery and gloomy unhappiness over a "Yes" you said publicly some distant decades ago."

That's Christianity for you.

I say this is madness, cruel madness, a sadist's recipe for human unhappiness and that it must be rejected and exposed and fought against with every breath, up until our last breath.

Not actually. Christ taught the principles of true and pure righteousness. He taught the highest standard to all. He expected couples to live in Christ and stay together in a union of Christ as a unit. The modern idea of romance and getty feelings was meaningless to his concept of marriage. If 2 people stayed in Christ, forgiveness, mercy, patience, etc etc will keep the union together. He considered adultery as breaking of the union. You must realise he constantly used the concept of unity and oneness, and covenants. If both people truely love, and I'm not speaking of romance, there is zero reason to break that covenant. If both people stayed in Christ, there should be no marriage that resembles your example. You have forsaken the idea that he forgave the thief on the cross, an adulterer, and the one who denied him 3 times. Obviously He understood no one was perfect. No one was truely "good" by a perfect standard.

Thank goodness no one in the West gives a remote fart about what Christ thinks are amendable reasons for divorce. People can divorce freely, irrespectively of whether or not the spouse has committed adultery.

We have secularism to thank for this. Secularism has saved many people from a life of absolute misery shackled to a spouse they do not care for. Moreover, some of them have moved over and found genuine love with a new partner.

Christianity, a foolproof recipe for human misery.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 10:32:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:03:57 PM, Trollord wrote:
At 4/19/2016 10:01:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:22:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women.

It tells more about how much they valued their quest and didn"t allow their male quests be gang raped by a gay mob. It tells also something about mobs and how sick and evil they can be.

Agree mobs are often sick and evil as this mob appears to be. However in no circumstances should a father agree for an evil mob to rape his daughters. It's absurd he took this approach. It shows how little value biblical writers placed on women.

Oh my goodness.

They were just writing what happened.

It doesn't mean it was right.

Btw i still love arguing with you. <3

(i am The-Holy-Macrel, made a new account)

I agree it does not specifically condone lots actiins but it does not criticize them either. This leads to the conclusion that God saw nothing wrong with lots actions according to the bible. If the bible writers thought lot had done wrong then they would have condemned his actions.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Trollord
Posts: 275
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4/19/2016 10:34:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:28:03 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 9:59:49 PM, Trollord wrote:
At 4/19/2016 9:57:29 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 1:45:46 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 4/19/2016 7:26:56 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
Where are you Christians? It seems by your absence in this thread you find this biblical story indefensible. The reality is this story was made up by men with no divine influence or assistance.
I think maybe people are getting tired of your posts taken from satirical websites, but to answer your question, the Bible simply states what Lot did in that situation. The Bible makes no claim that it was a righteous action.

It should condemn lot's actions. The story implies lot's actions were ok as he spared the angels from being raped by the mob of supposedly homosexual men. The bible implies that while angels are high and mighty women are simply property which men can do as they please with.

They are genderless.

They are always addressed as males and have male names. I agree they don't have male genitalia though.

Have you heard the bible describe a frickin' war angel?

Yes I've read about the war in heaven. It made me laugh actually.

That doesn't mean they are male.

God kind of refers to himself as male.

I laughed when i destroyed evolution.
Trollord
Posts: 275
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4/19/2016 10:36:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:32:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 10:03:57 PM, Trollord wrote:
At 4/19/2016 10:01:43 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:22:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women.

It tells more about how much they valued their quest and didn"t allow their male quests be gang raped by a gay mob. It tells also something about mobs and how sick and evil they can be.

Agree mobs are often sick and evil as this mob appears to be. However in no circumstances should a father agree for an evil mob to rape his daughters. It's absurd he took this approach. It shows how little value biblical writers placed on women.

Oh my goodness.

They were just writing what happened.

It doesn't mean it was right.

Btw i still love arguing with you. <3

(i am The-Holy-Macrel, made a new account)

I agree it does not specifically condone lots actiins but it does not criticize them either. This leads to the conclusion that God saw nothing wrong with lots actions according to the bible. If the bible writers thought lot had done wrong then they would have condemned his actions.

What if they just didn't?

What if they just didn't feel like criticizing it.

It was obviously wrong.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/19/2016 10:42:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:34:41 PM, Trollord wrote:

I laughed when i destroyed evolution.

In your juvenile wet dreams you did. The real world continues on as usual, the lunatic creationists corned in the basement reciting bible verses to cure a fever, peeling off a phallic banana to show how it fits in your hand and mouth and so it must have been designed for oral sex, disregarding basic math, elementary biology, waiting for Armageddon to strike sometime next Thursday, bickering and at each other's throats, all claiming to be the True Real True Christians.

You destroyed evolution?
Only if you mean behaving like a Windows 10 universal app of childishness.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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4/19/2016 10:42:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 10:04:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:37:46 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Genesis 19:1-8 we read;

"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant"s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom"both young and old"surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Lot, supposedly the only righteous man in Sodom offered up his virgin daughters to be gang raped by a mob. This is how much the human writers of the Bible valued women. Letting virgin girls be gang raped wasn"t outside their ethical framework, because they believed women were property. If the Bible is the word of God then women are property worthy to be gang raped at their father"s whim. But the Bible isn"t the word of God, it's a book written by bronze age men, updated by 1st century men, selected by 4th century men and further altered by medieval men. They all had something in common. Sexism. As shown by the book of lies they put together between them.

Rather than see the sacrifices of Lot to save messengers from God which would be the solemn duty of God fearing people, you focus on the physical act of rape. Like all women you latch on to the sexual acts as your primary interest and obsession and forget the serious implication of a city condemned and eventually destroyed.

The angels could simply have disappeared if they felt threatened. I don't see how in any way these men could have harmed the angels. Lot offering the mob an opportunity to rape his daughters is an evil cowardly act. It's clear he cared only for himself. Why do you condone rape? It's unacceptable in any circumstances. Would you like it if a mob of hundreds of men raped you? Especially if you were say a 14 year old boy at the time? No you would hate it. So why should any innocent person have to endure this horrific crime?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.