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Conversation between God and Satan

Chloe8
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4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Casten
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4/19/2016 12:06:08 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Come on. This casual conversation between God and Satan is one of the most interesting interactions in the whole Bible. Satan sidles up to God easy as you please and basically makes him a bet about the endurance of human faith in the face of complete loss. And God's just like, "You know what? You're on."
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 12:17:33 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:06:08 AM, Casten wrote:
Come on. This casual conversation between God and Satan is one of the most interesting interactions in the whole Bible. Satan sidles up to God easy as you please and basically makes him a bet about the endurance of human faith in the face of complete loss. And God's just like, "You know what? You're on."

Yes I agree its one of the more interesting biblical tales. It shows how the supposedly loving Christian god is quite happy to allow humans to suffer in order to win a bet against an evil angel.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
SpiritandTruth
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4/19/2016 12:29:15 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
What does a story being made up have to do with anything unless you have a presumption about what something is supposed to be?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Casten
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4/19/2016 12:41:07 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:17:33 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:06:08 AM, Casten wrote:
Come on. This casual conversation between God and Satan is one of the most interesting interactions in the whole Bible. Satan sidles up to God easy as you please and basically makes him a bet about the endurance of human faith in the face of complete loss. And God's just like, "You know what? You're on."

Yes I agree its one of the more interesting biblical tales. It shows how the supposedly loving Christian god is quite happy to allow humans to suffer in order to win a bet against an evil angel.

Well, I suppose we're meant to think it's okay because in the end God restored what had been taken from Job twofold.

But I'm not a Christian, so it doesn't have to make realistic sense to me. I just think it's a cool piece of mythology. Almost a throwback to the way the Greek gods used to toy with mortals in their games with each other.
Harikrish
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4/19/2016 12:42:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

There is a power struggle between God and the Devil. In the story of Job the Devil challenges God to put Job to the test and see if he remains loyal to God. The test is to put job through a series of misfortunes and personal losses and cause him to despair in the Lord. So there is a moral attached to the story as well.
Mhykiel
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4/19/2016 12:55:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Why should I take this as a literal recollection of an historical event?
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 7:17:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:55:00 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Why should I take this as a literal recollection of an historical event?

You can't pick and choose which bits of the bible are true. Either is the word of god or is simply the invention of humans. Your approach seems to be to simply ignore all the stupid and nasty bits and focus on the small percentage of the book that are remotely credible. It's an illogical approach. The bible is not at all credible. Why would this story be included if it was not meant to be taken literally?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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4/19/2016 7:22:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:42:31 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

There is a power struggle between God and the Devil. In the story of Job the Devil challenges God to put Job to the test and see if he remains loyal to God. The test is to put job through a series of misfortunes and personal losses and cause him to despair in the Lord. So there is a moral attached to the story as well.

What a strange thing for God to do. It's similar to how he tested Abraham and the same arguments apply. Why would an all knowing God who would clearly know how job would react to this test choose to be so cruel to him? The only rational explanation would be that God wanted job to fear him even more than he already did. It's also fairly clear from the bible that no such power struggle exists. God is supposedly allowing Satan to do what he does and is capable of destroying him at any time if he wants to.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Mhykiel
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4/19/2016 11:25:35 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:17:43 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:55:00 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Why should I take this as a literal recollection of an historical event?

You can't pick and choose which bits of the bible are true. Either is the word of god or is simply the invention of humans. Your approach seems to be to simply ignore all the stupid and nasty bits and focus on the small percentage of the book that are remotely credible. It's an illogical approach. The bible is not at all credible. Why would this story be included if it was not meant to be taken literally?

I don't pick and choose. I use grammatical cues, syntax, and semantics to discern NOT if it is true or false BUT if it is poetry, song, or historical narrative.

The whole Bible is not literal. The only justification you are giving for taking the account litteral is becuase it is in the bible.

Do this, RESEARCH the hebrew structure of Job. Not what you read off your fav atheist site but the actual structure of it in HEBREW. The first two chapters are in a poetic style. As is the epilogue. The discourse between Job and his friends are NOT poetic. And it's thought chapter 28 is a late edition because it should be Zohars last round.

I'm not saying it is poetic because what it says is fanciful. I'm saying it's poetic because it is written with Rhythm like Shakespeare.

Tell me again WHY should I think this passage is a literal account?
Mhykiel
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4/19/2016 11:36:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Do you know when trying to understand what a pasage in ANY book means you have to consider structure, audience, time period, culture?

Like when Joliet says 'Romeo WHERE art thou?'

Do you know what she is asking?
brontoraptor
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4/19/2016 12:02:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

If I tell you a story about myself, and you tell someone else, that doesn't mean you are lying by telling my story.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 12:31:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

If you can't figure that out I pity you.

Satan spent as much time as he could in heaven taunting both God and the faithful Angels. Rubbing in his challenge to Jehovah's authority.

Revelation 12:9, 10
9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!

So in fact the only question is why did Jehovah put up with it fir so many millennia?

The answer is almost frighteningly simple.

Justice.

Why justice?

There are two important aspects to Justice.

One is it's being done. that would have been satisfied by Jehovah simply destroying Satan and all who followed him.

But what would that have proved?

It would have proved that Jehovah could destroy what he had created.

Fine, but everyone new that.

However it would not have proved Satan wrong and therefore would have left the possibility of it happening over and over again.

The second, and far more important aspect to justice is it being seen to be done.

That meant that not only did Satan have to be proved wrong, but he had to have a fair chance to prove himself right if he could.

Jehovah set aside what has proved to be 7,000 years for that to happen, and set his plan in action to support his own case.

That meant that Satan could not be too greatly limited in his power, and in those two conversations, in Job 1 and 2, Jehovah outlines, for our information, what imitation tat was. He could not act directly against humans, only indirectly.

To make that fair, Jehovah himself also withdrew from direct action himself, delegating all care of creation to his only begotten son, who naturally followed his instructions to the letter, including coming to earth in the flesh of Jesus to perform the needed sacrifice to get humanity back on course eventually.

Not for nothing does John comment at John 3:16:

16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life

Incidentally that is yet another proof of the fallacy of the trinity. It was God's only begotten son who was sent to earth to occupy the flesh of Jesus, as John 1:14 also makes clear.

But back to the question at hand.

So that is why Jehovah allowed Satan fairly free reign, to satisfy true justice.

But why allow him to keep coming back to heaven ad taunting Jehovah and the faithful Angels?

Just as Satan has, since his casting out of heaven, created thousands of false Christian churches to distract us, so it is the case that allowing him to come back into heaven time and again was a way of distracting Satan from concentrating too much on humans.

Had Satan been cast out of heaven and not allowed back in much earlier, he would have had time, in the 7,000 years to persuade us to destroy ourselves as he is currently doing in so many ways.

Jehovah is a God of complete integrity so having set 7,000 years it would not vary by any appreciable amount.

What about evidence?

Well, the Angels hardly need it since they are watching the plan unfold and have been doing ever since it was set in the Garden of Eden.

No, it is we shot lived humans who need a permanent record of the evidence, and we have it, much of it even written in advance, so inevitable is the end result.

It's called the Bible, and like al evidence should be studied carefully before a verdict is reached.

We are soon to enter the final stage of the plan. Now is the time when we have to decide, and prove, whether or not we wish to be a part of it on God's side.

There are no neutrals, we are either for Jehovah's plan or we will be counted as being against it, and being for Jehovah's plan means activity, it means helping to spread the news of it to others.

That is why he drew those who eventually became known as Jehovah's Witnesses to his son's side, so they could be trained to carry out the work Christ and the Apostles started. The training took a few decades because they had so much wrong thinking to overcome, let alone wrong ideas to unlearn, but they got there.

Anyway, that is the true, scriptural answer to your questions. I hope it helps.
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
Athomos
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4/19/2016 12:44:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
So humans are mere pawns?
So much for the often alluded to sanctity of human life.

God allows for all of his 10, ten, innocent children to die just to have a point proven and then seems to think He somehow makes it up to Job by allowing him to have another 10.

What decent human being doesn't feel his or her stomach turning at this?
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 12:55:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:44:33 PM, Athomos wrote:
So humans are mere pawns?

To Satan they are yes.

To Jehovah they are unfortunate victims who will be compensated in the resurrection.

So much for the often alluded to sanctity of human life.

Satan has never held it sacred like Jehovah does.

Stan would not have created a resurrection like Jehovah has.

The resurrection preserves life forever. That is it's purpose.

But of course you don;t believe in the resurrection do you, just like Satan doesn't want you to.

He knows that the resurrection is to life what a parachute is to a pilot.


God allows for all of his 10, ten, innocent children to die just to have a point proven and then seems to think He somehow makes it up to Job by allowing him to have another 10.

Ah but next time Job gets them back forever, and in immeasurably better circumstances, he will have twice as many children then and an eternity to enjoy them.


What decent human being doesn't feel his or her stomach turning at this?

It should turn, but you should also blame the only one who could have prevented it, Satan.

Had Satan not rebelled it would not have been necessary, and Jehovah would not have been forced by pure justice to allow it.

Jehovah is as much a victim as we are, since it is his plan that has had to be put on temporary hold while all this is sorted.

If you think he likes it, you are sicker than Satan is. Even Satan knows how much Jehovah hates it.

But then with your attitude you are doing Satan's work for him, work he cannot do directly himself. You are actually proving Satan right in your case.
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
Athomos
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4/19/2016 1:02:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:55:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:44:33 PM, Athomos wrote:
So humans are mere pawns?

To Satan they are yes.

To Jehovah they are unfortunate victims who will be compensated in the resurrection.

So much for the often alluded to sanctity of human life.

Satan has never held it sacred like Jehovah does.

Stan would not have created a resurrection like Jehovah has.

The resurrection preserves life forever. That is it's purpose.

But of course you don;t believe in the resurrection do you, just like Satan doesn't want you to.

He knows that the resurrection is to life what a parachute is to a pilot.


God allows for all of his 10, ten, innocent children to die just to have a point proven and then seems to think He somehow makes it up to Job by allowing him to have another 10.

Ah but next time Job gets them back forever, and in immeasurably better circumstances, he will have twice as many children then and an eternity to enjoy them.


What decent human being doesn't feel his or her stomach turning at this?

It should turn, but you should also blame the only one who could have prevented it, Satan.

Had Satan not rebelled it would not have been necessary, and Jehovah would not have been forced by pure justice to allow it.

Jehovah is as much a victim as we are, since it is his plan that has had to be put on temporary hold while all this is sorted.

If you think he likes it, you are sicker than Satan is. Even Satan knows how much Jehovah hates it.

But then with your attitude you are doing Satan's work for him, work he cannot do directly himself. You are actually proving Satan right in your case.

The inanity of your paragraphs.
Harikrish
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4/19/2016 1:10:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:22:46 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:42:31 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

There is a power struggle between God and the Devil. In the story of Job the Devil challenges God to put Job to the test and see if he remains loyal to God. The test is to put job through a series of misfortunes and personal losses and cause him to despair in the Lord. So there is a moral attached to the story as well.

What a strange thing for God to do. It's similar to how he tested Abraham and the same arguments apply. Why would an all knowing God who would clearly know how job would react to this test choose to be so cruel to him? The only rational explanation would be that God wanted job to fear him even more than he already did. It's also fairly clear from the bible that no such power struggle exists. God is supposedly allowing Satan to do what he does and is capable of destroying him at any time if he wants to.

Learn from the moral of the story. Unwanted pregnancies, unwanted children, unwanted breakup are common to women who too willingly let their lust and emotions cloud their judgement. God puts tests to help you before you fall. It should build character not an apology.
tkubok
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4/19/2016 2:14:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

In early Jewish mythology, Satan is still working under God. its why God specifically states that he is the creator of all things good and evil, in the book of Job.

Now, its changed, and God no longer is the creator of evil. Thats Satans job now.
bulproof
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4/19/2016 2:52:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 12:55:00 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Why should I take this as a literal recollection of an historical event?

Precisely, it's just another myth written by ignorant goatherds. That would be the bible.
Heaven is just a tall building away.
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bulproof
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4/19/2016 2:56:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 11:36:42 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

Do you know when trying to understand what a pasage in ANY book means you have to consider structure, audience, time period, culture?

Like when Joliet says 'Romeo WHERE art thou?'

Do you know what she is asking?

Oh yes, let's have another fictional story support the fictional stories attributed to your fictional god.
Your arguments are beyond measure.<sarcasm off>
Heaven is just a tall building away.
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bulproof
Posts: 27,601
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4/19/2016 3:12:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Who recorded this alleged conversation?
Heaven is just a tall building away.
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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 24,534
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4/19/2016 3:33:39 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:12:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
Who recorded this alleged conversation?

Moses
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 3:36:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 2:14:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

In early Jewish mythology, Satan is still working under God. its why God specifically states that he is the creator of all things good and evil, in the book of Job.

Now, its changed, and God no longer is the creator of evil. Thats Satans job now.

It hasn't changed, it has simply changed back, reverted to the truth.

The Israelites and the Jews were very good at adopting other people's mythologies, that's why Jehovah eventual abandoned first Israel ad then Judah.
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 3:37:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:02:37 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:55:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:44:33 PM, Athomos wrote:
So humans are mere pawns?

To Satan they are yes.

To Jehovah they are unfortunate victims who will be compensated in the resurrection.

So much for the often alluded to sanctity of human life.

Satan has never held it sacred like Jehovah does.

Stan would not have created a resurrection like Jehovah has.

The resurrection preserves life forever. That is it's purpose.

But of course you don;t believe in the resurrection do you, just like Satan doesn't want you to.

He knows that the resurrection is to life what a parachute is to a pilot.


God allows for all of his 10, ten, innocent children to die just to have a point proven and then seems to think He somehow makes it up to Job by allowing him to have another 10.

Ah but next time Job gets them back forever, and in immeasurably better circumstances, he will have twice as many children then and an eternity to enjoy them.


What decent human being doesn't feel his or her stomach turning at this?

It should turn, but you should also blame the only one who could have prevented it, Satan.

Had Satan not rebelled it would not have been necessary, and Jehovah would not have been forced by pure justice to allow it.

Jehovah is as much a victim as we are, since it is his plan that has had to be put on temporary hold while all this is sorted.

If you think he likes it, you are sicker than Satan is. Even Satan knows how much Jehovah hates it.

But then with your attitude you are doing Satan's work for him, work he cannot do directly himself. You are actually proving Satan right in your case.

The inanity of your paragraphs.

The insanity is outside scripture not inside it, where all my teachings come from.

That is why they are truth, because they come from the God of Truth.
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
MadCornishBiker
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4/19/2016 3:38:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 1:02:37 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:55:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 12:44:33 PM, Athomos wrote:
So humans are mere pawns?

To Satan they are yes.

To Jehovah they are unfortunate victims who will be compensated in the resurrection.

So much for the often alluded to sanctity of human life.

Satan has never held it sacred like Jehovah does.

Stan would not have created a resurrection like Jehovah has.

The resurrection preserves life forever. That is it's purpose.

But of course you don;t believe in the resurrection do you, just like Satan doesn't want you to.

He knows that the resurrection is to life what a parachute is to a pilot.


God allows for all of his 10, ten, innocent children to die just to have a point proven and then seems to think He somehow makes it up to Job by allowing him to have another 10.

Ah but next time Job gets them back forever, and in immeasurably better circumstances, he will have twice as many children then and an eternity to enjoy them.


What decent human being doesn't feel his or her stomach turning at this?

It should turn, but you should also blame the only one who could have prevented it, Satan.

Had Satan not rebelled it would not have been necessary, and Jehovah would not have been forced by pure justice to allow it.

Jehovah is as much a victim as we are, since it is his plan that has had to be put on temporary hold while all this is sorted.

If you think he likes it, you are sicker than Satan is. Even Satan knows how much Jehovah hates it.

But then with your attitude you are doing Satan's work for him, work he cannot do directly himself. You are actually proving Satan right in your case.

The inanity of your paragraphs.

Ooops I read inanity as insanity, lol.

But there is nothing inane about the truth,
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
bigotry
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4/19/2016 3:45:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.
As much as you love quoting scripture, one would think youd take the time to read it thouroughly. Im sure they conversate often, its not as though satan is in hell...you have to remember that satan was cast out for his pride thinking he was better than God. This engagement is exactly that. Satan trying to flex.
Onto this nonsense of not being able to witness something therefore it must not be true. By this ridiculous assumption you cant know who wrote the constitution, if it was based on anything, if its even over 200 years old. If it was origionally written on hemp paper. You are taught these things by a reliable source and because of that you believe it. Same is true with this book or any other book. Its all God breathed.
bulproof
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4/19/2016 3:45:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:33:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:12:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
Who recorded this alleged conversation?

Moses

Where was he when he recorded this conversation?
hahahahahaa
Old Moshe never wrote a fcking word you moron.
Heaven is just a tall building away.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/19/2016 3:54:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:36:20 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 2:14:36 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/18/2016 11:50:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
In Job 1:6-12 we read;

"One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Why would God and Satan have a conversation? What would motivate either to engage in this unlikely event? Especially as Satan voluntarily presented himself to god? How could a human being possibly witness a conversation between God and Satan? It"s impossible. Therefore, the story must have been made up.

In early Jewish mythology, Satan is still working under God. its why God specifically states that he is the creator of all things good and evil, in the book of Job.

Now, its changed, and God no longer is the creator of evil. Thats Satans job now.

It hasn't changed, it has simply changed back, reverted to the truth.

The Israelites and the Jews were very good at adopting other people's mythologies, that's why Jehovah eventual abandoned first Israel ad then Judah.

Isnt the bible based on the jewish Torah though.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 24,534
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4/19/2016 3:56:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:45:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:33:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:12:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
Who recorded this alleged conversation?

Moses

Where was he when he recorded this conversation?
hahahahahaa
Old Moshe never wrote a fcking word you moron.

No, but he wrote many words. They just didn't indulge in what you have done to your brain.
Mark Twain had the right idea when he said:

"There is something fascinating about science; you get such a wholesale amount of speculation from such a trifling amount of fact".

Galatians 5:18 "Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law."
bulproof
Posts: 27,601
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4/19/2016 4:05:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 4/19/2016 3:56:35 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:45:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:33:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/19/2016 3:12:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
Who recorded this alleged conversation?

Moses

Where was he when he recorded this conversation?
hahahahahaa
Old Moshe never wrote a fcking word you moron.

No, but he wrote many words. They just didn't indulge in what you have done to your brain.

Where did you say he was?
He didn't write anything, he never existed, dummy.
Heaven is just a tall building away.
Me