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Muslims: Your view on Quran 5:47?

brontoraptor
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4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/19/2016 7:39:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Muslims are not only supposed to leave Christians alone in peace, but protect them as well.

If you stopped letting your fear get in the way of studying these things from an unbiased perspective, you might realize this.

Why does this not always happen in the real world? There is plenty of history that shows people doing horrendous stuff in the name of Christianity as well. I don't think it is too out there to suggest that the reasons are similar.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
brontoraptor
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4/19/2016 7:58:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:39:05 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Muslims are not only supposed to leave Christians alone in peace, but protect them as well.

If you stopped letting your fear get in the way of studying these things from an unbiased perspective, you might realize this.

Why does this not always happen in the real world? There is plenty of history that shows people doing horrendous stuff in the name of Christianity as well. I don't think it is too out there to suggest that the reasons are similar.

According to?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/19/2016 8:01:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

Thank you for seeking understanding instead of rambling away your blasphemous ignorance about Quranic verses.

Surah 5, Verse 47, which states:

"Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed."

What has Allah revealed to the Gospel readers? Biblical scholars all agree the Gospels hold contradictory accounts of Jesus, his life and teachings. They were written at different times even though the 12 disciples were contemporaries of Jesus and these were supposed to be eyewitness accounts.

There were 4 Gospels. If all 4 Gospels were to be considered to be true then they were all false because they disagreed in many instances. If only 1 was to contain the revelation by Allah, then which one Gospel was it?

So it appears what Allah is revealing is the unreliability of the Gospels to the people of the Gospels to Jude.. We have to understand the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was not a gospel scholar and only recited what was revealed to him by God's messenger Gabriel. But scholars will view this revelation by Allah in reference to the Gospels as a caution and warning that they are unreliable and must be accepted as such.

I am sure Muslims will agree with my understanding of Surah 5, Verse 47, which states:

"Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed."

I am Harikrish a champion of Muslims. My Muslim Brothers, Please correct me if I am wrong. There is no humility in accepting there might be Islamic scholars more knowledgeable.

As-salamu alaykum
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/20/2016 4:38:01 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

First of all, we don't take only one verse and make our conclusive opinion accordingly.. We see what other verses there are related to the topic and what they say.

Secondly, I really don't like harsh discussions with theists, especially Jews and Christians here.. Intellectual and respectful discussions are always welcome though.

Thirdly, since you asked then we have to answer..

The quotations you provided are clear: They will be judged according to what God revealed to them..

And in other verses it is clearly stated that they have distorted the original revelations which would mean that what you have in your hands that you call as Bible (OT + NT) is a distorted version of revelation. Therefore, we can safely conclude that the verse doesn't mean according to your Bible, but according to original revelation. Do you have the original revelations? Please read my arguments in my debate: "Bible Contradictions?" before you want me to accept that your Bible is the true and original revelation.
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/20/2016 4:38:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 7:39:05 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
Muslims are not only supposed to leave Christians alone in peace, but protect them as well.

If you stopped letting your fear get in the way of studying these things from an unbiased perspective, you might realize this.

Why does this not always happen in the real world? There is plenty of history that shows people doing horrendous stuff in the name of Christianity as well. I don't think it is too out there to suggest that the reasons are similar.

Respect!!!
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/20/2016 4:47:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 4:38:01 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

First of all, we don't take only one verse and make our conclusive opinion accordingly.. We see what other verses there are related to the topic and what they say.

Secondly, I really don't like harsh discussions with theists, especially Jews and Christians here.. Intellectual and respectful discussions are always welcome though.

Thirdly, since you asked then we have to answer..

The quotations you provided are clear: They will be judged according to what God revealed to them..

And in other verses it is clearly stated that they have distorted the original revelations which would mean that what you have in your hands that you call as Bible (OT + NT) is a distorted version of revelation. Therefore, we can safely conclude that the verse doesn't mean according to your Bible, but according to original revelation. Do you have the original revelations? Please read my arguments in my debate: "Bible Contradictions?" before you want me to accept that your Bible is the true and original revelation.

The thing I like about Muslims is that they are even better at pointing out bible contradictions that even some atheists (including myself).
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

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Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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tahirimanov
Posts: 43
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4/20/2016 5:37:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

First thing you should know is that when Quran talks about Gospel, it refers to revelation sent down to Jesus not to NT. And Quran never uses plural Gospels. And when you study Gospels especially the words attributed to Jesus (red letters) and compare them you will see that the message of Jesus was different from what Christians claim today, there's One God, worship Him, do good, and follow The Law.
I am smart.....
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/20/2016 7:15:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The "Gospel" is the Good News that can only be communicated by The Spirit that leads into All Truth. The Gospel is not a letter of the law message, quite the contrary, it is intended to fulfill the law through the spirit of the law.

The Qur'an prepares one adequately to receive the gospel. The New Testament and The Qur'an are very complimentary, as they both expose common idolatries present in the communities that identify as being "Christian" or "Islamic".

The thing is, if you really truly get one of them, you don't really need the other. They are self contained works.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/20/2016 3:36:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 4:38:01 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

First of all, we don't take only one verse and make our conclusive opinion accordingly.. We see what other verses there are related to the topic and what they say.

Secondly, I really don't like harsh discussions with theists, especially Jews and Christians here.. Intellectual and respectful discussions are always welcome though.

Thirdly, since you asked then we have to answer..

The quotations you provided are clear: They will be judged according to what God revealed to them..

And in other verses it is clearly stated that they have distorted the original revelations which would mean that what you have in your hands that you call as Bible (OT + NT) is a distorted version of revelation. Therefore, we can safely conclude that the verse doesn't mean according to your Bible, but according to original revelation. Do you have the original revelations? Please read my arguments in my debate: "Bible Contradictions?" before you want me to accept that your Bible is the true and original revelation.

Distorted revelations? Examples?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/20/2016 3:38:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Muslims always declare "distorted versions", but can never give examples as to why they even think this other than,"The cleric said so."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/20/2016 9:56:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 3:36:42 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/20/2016 4:38:01 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

First of all, we don't take only one verse and make our conclusive opinion accordingly.. We see what other verses there are related to the topic and what they say.

Secondly, I really don't like harsh discussions with theists, especially Jews and Christians here.. Intellectual and respectful discussions are always welcome though.

Thirdly, since you asked then we have to answer..

The quotations you provided are clear: They will be judged according to what God revealed to them..

And in other verses it is clearly stated that they have distorted the original revelations which would mean that what you have in your hands that you call as Bible (OT + NT) is a distorted version of revelation. Therefore, we can safely conclude that the verse doesn't mean according to your Bible, but according to original revelation. Do you have the original revelations? Please read my arguments in my debate: "Bible Contradictions?" before you want me to accept that your Bible is the true and original revelation.

Distorted revelations? Examples?

I already mentioned where I have pointed only a few of them above, but if you read it..

"Please read my arguments in my debate: "Bible Contradictions?""


Here is the link:
http://www.debate.org...
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/20/2016 9:56:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 3:38:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslims always declare "distorted versions", but can never give examples as to why they even think this other than,"The cleric said so."

Bare assertion!!
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/20/2016 10:03:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 9:56:42 PM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 3:38:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslims always declare "distorted versions", but can never give examples as to why they even think this other than,"The cleric said so."

Bare assertion!!

So what is the basis for the claim that they are false? Based on?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/20/2016 10:08:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 10:03:27 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 4/20/2016 9:56:42 PM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 3:38:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslims always declare "distorted versions", but can never give examples as to why they even think this other than,"The cleric said so."

Bare assertion!!

So what is the basis for the claim that they are false? Based on?

Refer to post #12 please..
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/20/2016 10:13:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 3:38:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslims always declare "distorted versions", but can never give examples as to why they even think this other than,"The cleric said so."

I have given you a detailed explanation taken from the Gospels in post#4

I will repost my response.

Thank you for seeking understanding instead of rambling away your blasphemous ignorance about Quranic verses.

Surah 5, Verse 47, which states:

"Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed."

What has Allah revealed to the Gospel readers? Biblical scholars all agree the Gospels hold contradictory accounts of Jesus, his life and teachings. They were written at different times even though the 12 disciples were contemporaries of Jesus and these were supposed to be eyewitness accounts.

There were 4 Gospels. If all 4 Gospels were to be considered to be true then they were all false because they disagreed in many instances. If only 1 was to contain the revelation by Allah, then which one Gospel was it?

So it appears what Allah is revealing is the unreliability of the Gospels to the people of the Gospels to Judge. We have to understand the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was not a gospel scholar and only recited what was revealed to him by God's messenger Gabriel. But scholars will view this revelation by Allah in reference to the Gospels as a caution and warning that they are unreliable and must be accepted as such.

I am sure Muslims will agree with my understanding of Surah 5, Verse 47, which states:

"Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed."

I am Harikrish a champion of Muslims. My Muslim Brothers, Please correct me if I am wrong. There is no humility in accepting there might be Islamic scholars more knowledgeable.

As-salamu alaykum
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

As it is written, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

The Son is the word of God from which all things come from manifest in the flesh. The confusion has to do with the identity of Jesus. Are we talking about the man who walked around named "Jesus", or are we talking about The Holy Spirit of God?

Truly, being created beings, we have The Most Perfect Image, who is The Son. We can only know God through The Son. The Son was given authority by The Father, and those who know The Father bear witness to this.

Truly, one perspective is idolatry, while another aspect is enlightenment. However, God as sanctified all of creation through his Son, our Lord and Savior, and we are forgiven if we are sincere and turn away from sin when we are aware of it. The command that Jesus gave to his disciples was to love others as He loved us, and He has shown us much charity. We must be patient, as God is patient, and accept people where they are at in order that God's most perfect work be complete in them. God wills that no man shall perish, and the realization of salvation is The Gospel, the good news.

"And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them."

It is also written,

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Fatihah
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4/20/2016 10:57:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

Response: It means people who accept the revelation given to Jesus should follow it. The New Testament and the Bible is not the revelation sent to Jesus.
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/22/2016 10:18:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Can you elaborate please?

Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

The Qur'an is not a a translated message into Arabic, it is originally revealed in Arabic.. The is NO Muslim that believes otherwise. It is also explicitly stated in the Qur'an that it was revealed in Arabic..

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

The word he read was the Qur'an (what he read at first was the first 5 verses of Chapter of Alaq of the Qur'an). He understood that what he had to read was what was being said to him by the angel of revelation, i.e., Angel Gabriel. In other words, he had to repeat what was being said to him..

Now compare with Deutronomy 18:18-19; I will put my words into his mouth and shall speak what God reveals to him..

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

Which son?

As it is written, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

The Son is the word of God from which all things come from manifest in the flesh. The confusion has to do with the identity of Jesus. Are we talking about the man who walked around named "Jesus", or are we talking about The Holy Spirit of God?

Truly, being created beings, we have The Most Perfect Image, who is The Son. We can only know God through The Son. The Son was given authority by The Father, and those who know The Father bear witness to this.

As the authoroty was given to all other prophets..

Truly, one perspective is idolatry, while another aspect is enlightenment. However, God as sanctified all of creation through his Son, our Lord and Savior, and we are forgiven if we are sincere and turn away from sin when we are aware of it. The command that Jesus gave to his disciples was to love others as He loved us, and He has shown us much charity. We must be patient, as God is patient, and accept people where they are at in order that God's most perfect work be complete in them. God wills that no man shall perish, and the realization of salvation is The Gospel, the good news.

Which Gospel?

"And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them."

It is also written,

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
POPOO5560
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4/22/2016 10:29:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

we believe in the Gospel of Jesus not the Gospels of "Matthew/Luke/John/Mark".. where the Gospel of Jesus? u dont have it. btw u mistranslated it by saying "Gospels" and not Gospel in the first sentence. dont use deception.
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Roukezian
Posts: 1,711
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4/22/2016 6:06:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
To be a Muslim. you have to believe that God failed twice in protecting his gospels from distortion until he brought down the Qur'an. Doesn't sound like someone I'd hire for Source Version Control.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/22/2016 6:25:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 6:06:24 PM, Roukezian wrote:
To be a Muslim. you have to believe that God failed twice in protecting his gospels from distortion until he brought down the Qur'an. Doesn't sound like someone I'd hire for Source Version Control.

The Bible is made up of 66 books by different authors. Did God need 66 different writers? Did God inspire 4 Gospels where each tell a different story? If he was not satisfied with the earlier messengers would he not to preserve and protect the truth have it written by someone with unquestionable integrity such as the prophet Mohammed (pbuh). Most will agree the last point is the most likely.
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/22/2016 10:17:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 6:06:24 PM, Roukezian wrote:
To be a Muslim. you have to believe that God failed twice in protecting his gospels from distortion until he brought down the Qur'an. Doesn't sound like someone I'd hire for Source Version Control.

That is not failing.. God obviously could preserve those books.. There are tons of other reasons and wisdom behind God letting those books to be distorted..

But before being able to properly understand this point it is necessary first to properly understand the existence of God, the concept of God, the purpose of creation, the purpose of human life on Earth..
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/23/2016 9:56:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 10:18:25 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Can you elaborate please?

Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

The Qur'an is not a a translated message into Arabic, it is originally revealed in Arabic.. The is NO Muslim that believes otherwise. It is also explicitly stated in the Qur'an that it was revealed in Arabic..

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

The word he read was the Qur'an (what he read at first was the first 5 verses of Chapter of Alaq of the Qur'an). He understood that what he had to read was what was being said to him by the angel of revelation, i.e., Angel Gabriel. In other words, he had to repeat what was being said to him..


The Qur'an is God's revealed word in Arabic, this is certain.

But The Word of God is The Most Perfect Image, and the Most Perfect Image is what all inspired scripture points to. Those who know The Father recognize The Son, and none can go to the father except through The Son. The Son is The Word. The Son is that Most Perfect Image.

Now compare with Deutronomy 18:18-19; I will put my words into his mouth and shall speak what God reveals to him..

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

Which son?


That Most Perfect Image, The Word of God through which all things that were created were created.

Which Gospel?

The Gospel of The Spirit, The Gospel of Pentecost. The Gospel that topples all principalities and dominions, The Gospel that liberates man from the worship of creation while sanctifying the worship of God through creation. The Gospel that grants a peace that surpasses all understanding. It is the forgiveness of sins, the recognition of God's sovereignty over all things, and God's mercy to his creation. It is to recognize God as salvation.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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4/23/2016 10:50:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

Do you hate Muslims, Bronto? (I ask this question because you tend to avoid it)
Meh!
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/23/2016 11:04:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 9:56:18 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 4/22/2016 10:18:25 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Can you elaborate please?

?

Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

The Qur'an is not a a translated message into Arabic, it is originally revealed in Arabic.. The is NO Muslim that believes otherwise. It is also explicitly stated in the Qur'an that it was revealed in Arabic..

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

The word he read was the Qur'an (what he read at first was the first 5 verses of Chapter of Alaq of the Qur'an). He understood that what he had to read was what was being said to him by the angel of revelation, i.e., Angel Gabriel. In other words, he had to repeat what was being said to him..


The Qur'an is God's revealed word in Arabic, this is certain.

But The Word of God is The Most Perfect Image, and the Most Perfect Image is what all inspired scripture points to. Those who know The Father recognize The Son, and none can go to the father except through The Son. The Son is The Word. The Son is that Most Perfect Image.

You wrote: "Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!"

The word he read was The Word of God, which is Qur'an.. Not Spirit or The Son as you wrote below.

Now compare with Deutronomy 18:18-19; I will put my words into his mouth and shall speak what God reveals to him..

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

Which son?


That Most Perfect Image, The Word of God through which all things that were created were created.

Who is...?

Which Gospel?

The Gospel of The Spirit, The Gospel of Pentecost. The Gospel that topples all principalities and dominions, The Gospel that liberates man from the worship of creation while sanctifying the worship of God through creation. The Gospel that grants a peace that surpasses all understanding. It is the forgiveness of sins, the recognition of God's sovereignty over all things, and God's mercy to his creation. It is to recognize God as salvation.

Which is...?
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
ssadi
Posts: 324
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4/23/2016 11:08:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:50:27 PM, Axonly wrote:
At 4/19/2016 6:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Muslim view of Quran 5:47?

(Quran 5:47)
Muhammad Sarwar:
"The followers of the Gospels (the New Testament) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers."

(Quran 5:47)
Arberry:
"So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly."

Do you hate Muslims, Bronto? (I ask this question because you tend to avoid it)

Yes, he does! (He doesn't tend to avoid it, just read some of his other posts about Muslims and Islam under some other threads)

Correct me, Bronto, if I am wrong..
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/24/2016 1:33:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 11:04:03 PM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/23/2016 9:56:18 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 4/22/2016 10:18:25 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Can you elaborate please?

?


The state of the heart effects how one interprets things.
Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

The Qur'an is not a a translated message into Arabic, it is originally revealed in Arabic.. The is NO Muslim that believes otherwise. It is also explicitly stated in the Qur'an that it was revealed in Arabic..

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

The word he read was the Qur'an (what he read at first was the first 5 verses of Chapter of Alaq of the Qur'an). He understood that what he had to read was what was being said to him by the angel of revelation, i.e., Angel Gabriel. In other words, he had to repeat what was being said to him..


The Qur'an is God's revealed word in Arabic, this is certain.

But The Word of God is The Most Perfect Image, and the Most Perfect Image is what all inspired scripture points to. Those who know The Father recognize The Son, and none can go to the father except through The Son. The Son is The Word. The Son is that Most Perfect Image.

You wrote: "Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!"

The word he read was The Word of God, which is Qur'an.. Not Spirit or The Son as you wrote below.


The Qur'an is a translation of spirit. It is a created thing. Everything in creation comes from The Word of God. The Qur'an is inspired, no doubt, but it is a translation. To place it between you and God would be a type of idolatry. I believe that if one understands what the Qur'an is saying, they aren't going to commit this idolatry. Most people who read scripture don't understand it, even a scripture as straight forwards and lucid as The Qur'an. The state of one's heart effects tremendously the message one receives when studying scripture, even scripture as straight forward and lucid as The Qur'an.

Now compare with Deutronomy 18:18-19; I will put my words into his mouth and shall speak what God reveals to him..

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

Which son?


That Most Perfect Image, The Word of God through which all things that were created were created.

Who is...?


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

It's a mystery, ain't it?

Which Gospel?

The Gospel of The Spirit, The Gospel of Pentecost. The Gospel that topples all principalities and dominions, The Gospel that liberates man from the worship of creation while sanctifying the worship of God through creation. The Gospel that grants a peace that surpasses all understanding. It is the forgiveness of sins, the recognition of God's sovereignty over all things, and God's mercy to his creation. It is to recognize God as salvation.

Which is...?

The spirit of scripture, which is pure and leads to life. Not the letter, which is subject to the laws of creation, and sure death.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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4/29/2016 12:35:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:33:53 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 4/23/2016 11:04:03 PM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/23/2016 9:56:18 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
At 4/22/2016 10:18:25 AM, ssadi wrote:
At 4/20/2016 10:49:34 PM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
The distortion is not simply from the source to the recording,, to the translation that you receive.

The distortion is also present in the translation that goes on in the place between your mind processing the words and what strikes the soul.

Can you elaborate please?

?


The state of the heart effects how one interprets things.
Everyone is dealing with translations, and there are many among the Muslims who believe that The Qur'an is not a translated message into Arabic.

The Qur'an is not a a translated message into Arabic, it is originally revealed in Arabic.. The is NO Muslim that believes otherwise. It is also explicitly stated in the Qur'an that it was revealed in Arabic..

Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, who told him to read. Mohammed said, "I don't know how to read". Yet eventually, Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!

The word he read was the Qur'an (what he read at first was the first 5 verses of Chapter of Alaq of the Qur'an). He understood that what he had to read was what was being said to him by the angel of revelation, i.e., Angel Gabriel. In other words, he had to repeat what was being said to him..


The Qur'an is God's revealed word in Arabic, this is certain.

But The Word of God is The Most Perfect Image, and the Most Perfect Image is what all inspired scripture points to. Those who know The Father recognize The Son, and none can go to the father except through The Son. The Son is The Word. The Son is that Most Perfect Image.

You wrote: "Mohammed DID read, and the word he read was The Word of God, which is Spirit!"

The word he read was The Word of God, which is Qur'an.. Not Spirit or The Son as you wrote below.


The Qur'an is a translation of spirit. It is a created thing. Everything in creation comes from The Word of God. The Qur'an is inspired, no doubt, but it is a translation. To place it between you and God would be a type of idolatry. I believe that if one understands what the Qur'an is saying, they aren't going to commit this idolatry. Most people who read scripture don't understand it, even a scripture as straight forwards and lucid as The Qur'an. The state of one's heart effects tremendously the message one receives when studying scripture, even scripture as straight forward and lucid as The Qur'an.

Now compare with Deutronomy 18:18-19; I will put my words into his mouth and shall speak what God reveals to him..

Truly, those who know The Father recognize The Son.

Which son?


That Most Perfect Image, The Word of God through which all things that were created were created.

Who is...?


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

It's a mystery, ain't it?

Which Gospel?

The Gospel of The Spirit, The Gospel of Pentecost. The Gospel that topples all principalities and dominions, The Gospel that liberates man from the worship of creation while sanctifying the worship of God through creation. The Gospel that grants a peace that surpasses all understanding. It is the forgiveness of sins, the recognition of God's sovereignty over all things, and God's mercy to his creation. It is to recognize God as salvation.

Which is...?

The spirit of scripture, which is pure and leads to life. Not the letter, which is subject to the laws of creation, and sure death.

The Quran rejects Christ which is damnation according to Christ Himself. It also says your head is to be stroked from your shoulders.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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