Total Posts:61|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

God Does Not Exist

Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 2:39:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

Prove this statement

P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

When and where did God say this? Unsupported assertion.

P2: No known amputees have been healed

Correct

C: God does not exist

Non sequitur not supported by P1. One could argue that - if you concede that P1 is true - God was merely lying, yet still exists.

Satisfied? No?

Not really. Very poor argument.

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Well, use the very basic definition of God that most people agree on and begin your argument there. Don't make attacks on specific theistic beliefs as that has no bearing on other theistic beliefs.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:21:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

Also, this premise I based on God saying something. If your proved this premise as true, the rest of your argument would be Irrelevent as the mere fact that God actually said something would prove his existence. Thus, you've caught yourself in a no-win situation.

P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:24:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

The Bible never mentions amputees.

It does say you will face trials, tribulation, persecution, that you will pick up your cross and follow Him, the world will hate you, that you will not love your life even unto death, my god my god why have you forsaken me, to live is loss, Job said he wished he'd never been born but was faithful to God, Christ sweated blood, Christ said I am sorrowful even unto death, Jesus wept, in Revelation God warns you may be beheaded, one apostle hung himself, 10 were crucified and tortured, John died in prison, John the Baptist was beheaded, Christ was beaten, tortured, and crucified on a cross, etc etc...

The problem with Atheists is most were raisedin the most spoiled generation ever to have walked the planet Earth. Men used to be men. The sayings when I was young were "Suck it up", "Be a man", and "That is life". Life is not easy. The world is not black and white, and if life becomes a b*tch, it was harder for the generation before you and harder for the generation before them. The problem with America's youth was they've never had to fight for their lives, or work hard compared to prior generations, and we have raised a generation of the biggest wussbags I have ever seen.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:36:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
When and where did God say this?

Assured us by means of any genuine believer -

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12) KJV Story book

&

If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) ESV Story book
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:39:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

For P1 to be true, God should have said, ' I will heal all amputees'.

Clearly, there is no evidence for this.

Hence P1 is flawed.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:57:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees <<< This is preposterous.
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
Jesus loves you.

////////////

-Funny Links-
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:58:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees <<< When did god speak such upon you?
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
Jesus loves you.

////////////

-Funny Links-
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 4:20:12 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:36:40 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
When and where did God say this?

Assured us by means of any genuine believer -

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12) KJV Story book

Ah, yes, but that's the bible, you see, and only represents Christianity. Not deism.

&

If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) ESV Story book

Same as above. Even if P1 were true, it would prove the conclusion wrong. Furthermore, the conclusion is non-sequitur.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 5:24:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 4:20:12 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:36:40 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
When and where did God say this?

Assured us by means of any genuine believer -

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12) KJV Story book

Ah, yes, but that's the bible, you see, and only represents Christianity. Not deism.

&

If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) ESV Story book

Same as above. Even if P1 were true, it would prove the conclusion wrong. Furthermore, the conclusion is non-sequitur.

Nah!

The claim is a God said those things!

You Lose!
distraff
Posts: 1,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 5:39:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Problem is that this only addresses Gods have been proven to make a promise like this. Of course it is possible that the records that say that he made this claim are inaccurate not that he doesn't exist. Also just because we don't know the amputees have been healed doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 5:53:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

Did God say that? If yes then P1 is contradiction with C.

P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

Why don't you tell me again what I should argue, and enumerate a list of arguments that I have to use to support the resolution you gave me. And then tell me how none of it disproves your argument because your argument is self-evident.

You much at that then making syllogisms.


I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

What god/s are atheist opposed to? What makes the entity Atheist don't believe in a "God" and not some Alien overlord?
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement
Etc.

I prefer my argument:

P1: If an entity is made of something then it is contingent (dependent) on that something.
P2: God is not contingent (by definition).
C: God is not made of something.

It trivially follows that if God is not made of something then he is literally nothing, ie. does not exist.
Athomos
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 9:36:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

I'm not aware of any scripture where God specifically promises to heal the amputees.
The better question is this:

Why is it that in all reported miraculous cures no amputees seem to have been graced with a regrown limb?

That's the though question theists have to answer.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 9:50:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:58:40 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees <<< When did god speak such upon you?
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Hey Dragon, perhaps you could use some fingers instead of claws. Then you could type something interesting. Lol.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 9:51:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
At what point in time should all amputees be healed to satisfy this reasoning? I'm assuming your argument is unless God does things as demanded by your scheduling or in regards to what you personally think is a timely manner than God doesn't exist.
Typical non sequitur
P2: No known amputees have been healed
As of yet based again on your schedule
C: God does not exist
Conclusion does not follow logically....
Satisfied? No?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 11:11:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement

Or... it has been illustrated by counter-example that either the a) existence of God is disproven, or b) humans cannot define the term 'God' well enough that it specifically and unambiguously references anything that exists.

Let us assume not a) -- i.e, that the existence of God is not disproven.

Then it is illustrated that nothing which exists is specifically and unambiguously referenced by the theological term 'God'.

Ergo, nothing called 'God' exists.

Thus, either God is disproven by counter-example, or God does not exist by failure of theological semantics.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 11:50:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 5:24:03 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/23/2016 4:20:12 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:36:40 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
When and where did God say this?

Assured us by means of any genuine believer -

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12) KJV Story book

Ah, yes, but that's the bible, you see, and only represents Christianity. Not deism.

&

If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. (John 15:7) ESV Story book

Same as above. Even if P1 were true, it would prove the conclusion wrong. Furthermore, the conclusion is non-sequitur.

Nah!

The claim is a God said those things!

The claim is that God doesn't exist dummy, and saying "Nah" hasn't constituted as a rebuttal since kindergarten.

You Lose!
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 12:07:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 11:11:15 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement

Or... it has been illustrated by counter-example that either the a) existence of God is disproven, or b) humans cannot define the term 'God' well enough that it specifically and unambiguously references anything that exists.

Let us assume not a) -- i.e, that the existence of God is not disproven.

Then it is illustrated that nothing which exists is specifically and unambiguously referenced by the theological term 'God'.

Ergo, nothing called 'God' exists.

Thus, either God is disproven by counter-example, or God does not exist by failure of theological semantics.

Yes. I'm having a discussion with a theist now in another thread where I should have asked for a definition up front. So far he has pushed his god entity out of the universe, has him made of nothing at all and 'existing' in a timeless state but still able to act somehow. In their desperate attempts to keep God in play, all they can do is make him an increasingly smaller target until he disappears entirely in a puff of metaphysical smoke. It doesn't seem to matter that they have reduced him to something completely unrecognizable to their Bible god just as long as they have something, anything, to hold onto. Somehow they imagine that if they can get their foot in the door with a minimalist god then they can work their way back to the god of their particular holy book.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 12:16:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 12:07:50 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 11:11:15 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement

Or... it has been illustrated by counter-example that either the a) existence of God is disproven, or b) humans cannot define the term 'God' well enough that it specifically and unambiguously references anything that exists.

Let us assume not a) -- i.e, that the existence of God is not disproven.

Then it is illustrated that nothing which exists is specifically and unambiguously referenced by the theological term 'God'.

Ergo, nothing called 'God' exists.

Thus, either God is disproven by counter-example, or God does not exist by failure of theological semantics.

Yes. Somehow they imagine that if they can get their foot in the door with a minimalist god then they can work their way back to the god of their particular holy book.

It's sad, Dee, that sincere believers can do that, and either be unaware, or unashamed.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:24:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Well, use the very basic definition of God that most people agree on and begin your argument there. Don't make attacks on specific theistic beliefs as that has no bearing on other theistic beliefs.

What definition is that, and why is the definition that "most people" agree with acceptable?

If you don't think I should attack specific theistic beliefs that have no bearing on other theistic beliefs then how do I prove God does not exist when every theist prays to a different God?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:25:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 2:39:15 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

Prove this statement

I just did, that's the God I'm talking about. Did you have a different God in mind?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:37:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 5:39:16 AM, distraff wrote:
Problem is that this only addresses Gods have been proven to make a promise like this.

Yea, that's the point of the OP.

Theists always seem to think atheists have some burden to prove God does not exist, meanwhile they all pray to a different God. It is a complete failure on the theist who insists that atheism be defined as "the belief that God does not exist" to understand the point of view of an atheist, and I think is quite arrogant since they seem to think that the God they believe in is the only one worthy of discussion.

No atheist ever refuted a God that a theist did not first assert. If the theist wants to talk about the specific God they believe then they need to propose it, and carry the burden that comes along with it. If they're not willing to do that then be prepared for the silly discussion that follows, like the OP, where a completely ridiculous version is made up by the atheist just so they can refute it.

As an atheist there are some versions of God I will say do not exist. There are others I will say I have no idea. No one characteristic of my position can be attributed to all Gods except one - I do not hold a belief in it. Thus, that is what atheism is.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:44:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 5:53:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees

Did God say that? If yes then P1 is contradiction with C.

No, God did not say that because he doesn't exist. P1 wasn't a statement of truth, it was referring to a characteristic or action taken by the God propsoed.

P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

Why don't you tell me again what I should argue

Argue that my attempts to prove the non-existence of this particular God fail.

You want me as the atheist to take on the burden of proof don't you? So what's the problem?

I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

What god/s are atheist opposed to?

My attitude towards a God depends on how you are defining it. Are you asking me to list every God ever conceived of and tell you my problem with each of them?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:48:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement

Sorry, it was late and the last thing I typed before going to sleep. I made some assumptions when conceiving of this particular God, some of which were... God Cannot lie, God only speaks literal truth, God was talking about here on earth, and it was (the proposed) God who made the statement.

Satisfied yet?

BTW, you do realize the OP was satirical right?
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 1:53:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:48:35 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 6:57:13 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
Many theists demand that atheists prove their claim that God does not exist, or accuse atheists of "retreating to agnosticism" when challenged to defend our "real belief" in the non-existence of God. The implication here is that we as atheists do in fact hold a belief on the subject of Gods existence but are just too cowardly to state it for fear that we will then have to shoulder the burden of proving it. So here it is. I will now argue that God does not exist:

P1: God said he would heal all amputees
P2: No known amputees have been healed
C: God does not exist

Satisfied? No?

No. There are other possible conclusions:

C: God lied
C: It was hyperbole not meant to be taken literally
C: God meant that they would be healed in heaven
C: It wasn't God who made the statement

Sorry, it was late and the last thing I typed before going to sleep. I made some assumptions when conceiving of this particular God, some of which were... God Cannot lie, God only speaks literal truth, God was talking about here on earth, and it was (the proposed) God who made the statement.

Satisfied yet?

BTW, you do realize the OP was satirical right?

Yeah, I guessed. Either that or someone had hijacked your account. :-)
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:26:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 1:24:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Well, use the very basic definition of God that most people agree on and begin your argument there. Don't make attacks on specific theistic beliefs as that has no bearing on other theistic beliefs.

What definition is that, and why is the definition that "most people" agree with acceptable?

I don't know, you find a definition. Google it.

If you don't think I should attack specific theistic beliefs that have no bearing on other theistic beliefs then how do I prove God does not exist when every theist prays to a different God?

Well attack characteristics of God that every or most religions agree with, hence a general definition is needed.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2016 3:31:39 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 3:26:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 1:24:18 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 4/23/2016 3:16:14 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 2:32:15 AM, Double_R wrote:
I'm sorry, is there some specific version or definition of God that atheist claims of non-existence is supposed be in regards to?

Well, use the very basic definition of God that most people agree on and begin your argument there. Don't make attacks on specific theistic beliefs as that has no bearing on other theistic beliefs.

What definition is that, and why is the definition that "most people" agree with acceptable?

I don't know, you find a definition. Google it.

I did find a definition. You did not accept it. So why should I go find another? At what point will you be satisfied, and when we get to that point what about those who are not? Why is it my responsibility to refute the definition of God that you accept?