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Qur'an- women are stupid and likely to go to

Chloe8
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4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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4/24/2016 12:20:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

100 % agree with you there.

Side note.
Your 1st sentence reads .
Islam is an extremely sexist religion. Full stop...
You being a feminist makes you think the word sexist only applies to women.
You make normal men with with " normal " attitudes towards women feel like rapists.
I'll get over it but. Thx mate.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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4/24/2016 12:28:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

Response: Unless you can confirm that you have been to Hell and back and saw otherwise, then the only evidence of deficiency in intelligence being displayed is on your part. Not Islam.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/24/2016 12:30:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

On small point of contention. It is not, of course, that women are inferior to men. IQ gender-specific studies have shown the curves do not superimpose exactly. Men tend to occupy the extremes more sharply than women, i. e., meaning their IQ concentrates more expressively on the lower and upper limits of the bell curve, more so than women's.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, though I can't be bothered to locate the studies which describe this general trend in detail.

Anyway, I vehemently oppose any misogynist world view and I certainly would agree that Islam appears to fit that description.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 12:36:32 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:30:11 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

On small point of contention. It is not, of course, that women are inferior to men. IQ gender-specific studies have shown the curves do not superimpose exactly. Men tend to occupy the extremes more sharply than women, i. e., meaning their IQ concentrates more expressively on the lower and upper limits of the bell curve, more so than women's.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, though I can't be bothered to locate the studies which describe this general trend in detail.

Anyway, I vehemently oppose any misogynist world view and I certainly would agree that Islam appears to fit that description.

I don't see how that's an issue of contention? If you agree men and women have equal iq scores on average I don't see where your contention with my claim is? I didn't claim that iq trends were identical I merely stated claims that women are on average are less intelligent then men are incorrect.
Osman35
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4/24/2016 12:41:35 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
In His Name, be He glorified!

A Conversation with the Women,
My Believing Sisters of the hereafter
At the time I returned to blessed Isparta, which bears the meaning of the Medreset""z-Zehra,1 for the third time, I had seen the sincere and enthusiastic interest shown by women towards the Risale-i Nur in some other provinces, and had realized that in a way far exceeding my due they had confidence in my instruction in it. I heard then that the women in Isparta, my blessed sisters of the hereafter, were waiting to receive instruction from me, as though I were going to instruct them in mosques in the manner of preaching. I was ill with five or so different illnesses, in a wretched state, lacking the strength to speak and think, yet that night the following was imparted to my heart, impellingly: "Fifteen years ago you wrote A Guide for Youth at the request of some youths and it was a source of benefit for many. Women, however, are in even greater need of a guide at this time." Despite my extreme weakness, wretchedness, and powerlessness, in the face of this warning I wrote very concisely in three points a number of necessary matters which I now explain to my blessed sisters and young spiritual offspring.
FIRST POINT
Since one of the fundamental principles of the Risale-i Nur is compassion and women are champions of compassion, they are by nature more closely connected with the Risale-i Nur than others. Praise be to God, this natural sympathy is felt in many places. The self-sacrifice within such compassion seeks nothing in return and expresses true sincerity, and so is of the greatest importance at this time.
Yes, the fact that wanting nothing in return, a mother will sacrifice her life to save her young from danger, as demanded by her nature and with true sincerity, shows that women are capable of great heroism. By developing this heroism, they may save their lives both in this world and in the hereafter. However, this important attribute does not unfold under the influence of certain bad currents of thought, or else it is exploited. A small example out of hundreds is as follows:
A compassionate mother undertakes every sort of self-sacrifice so that her child should not fall into danger in this worldly life and should receive every sort of benefit and advantage; she brings him up with this in view. Thinking, "My son is going to be a Pasha," she gives him all her property, takes him from the Qur"an school and sends him to Europe. But it does not occur to her that her child"s eternal life has fallen into danger. She tries to save him from prison in this world and does not take into consideration his being sentenced to the prison of Hell. Reversing that innate compassion, she makes her innocent child a claimant against her in the hereafter, though he should be her intercessor. He will rebuke her saying: "Why did you not strengthen my belief and so cause me to be lost?" In this world too, since he did not receive a proper Islamic upbringing, he cannot respond to his mother"s wondrous compassion in the way it deserves; in fact he does so very deficiently.

If she does not misdirect her true compassion and works to save her unhappy child from everlasting incarceration in Hell and from dying while in misguidance, which will result in eternal extinction, the equivalent of each of the child"s good works will pass to the mother"s book of good deeds. And after her death he will continuously send lights to her spirit with his good works, and in the hereafter, will be not a claimant but with all his spirit and life an intercessor for her, and a blessed child of her"s for all eternity.

Yes, man"s first master and most influential teacher is his mother. In connection with this, I shall explain the following to you, which I have always felt strongly in my own self:

I am eighty years old and have received lessons from eighty thousand people. Yet I swear that the truest and most unshakeable lessons I have received are those inculcated in me by my late mother, which have always remained fresh for me. They have been planted in my nature as though they were seeds planted in my physical being. I observe that other instruction has been constructed on those seeds. That is to say, the lessons instilled in my nature and spirit by my mother when I was one year old I now see at the age of eighty to be fundamental seeds amid great truths.

For instance, I consider it certain that I learnt from the compassionate behaviour and acts of my mother and from her teaching, to be compassionate, which is the most important of the four principles of my way, and to be kind and clement, which is the greatest truth of the Risale-i Nur. Yes, the compassion of motherhood comprises true sincerity and true self-sacrifice, but it is a misuse of it to not think of the hereafter " a treasury of diamonds for her innocent child " and to turn his face towards this world, which resembles temporary, transient fragments of glass, and to be kind to him in that way, is to misuse that compassion.

A proof of this heroism of women in respect of compassion, which wants absolutely no recompense and nothing in return, and of their sacrificing their very spirits, which in no way seeks personal benefit and no show, is that a hen, which bears a tiny sample of that compassion, will attack a lion and sacrifice its life for its chicks.

Now, sincerity is the most valuable and most essential principle in Islamic training and in deeds pertaining to the hereafter. True sincerity is present in the heroism of this kind of compassion. If these two points begin to develop among women, it will lead to considerable happiness within the domain of Islam. When it comes to the heroism of men, it can never be for nothing; they always want recompense in perhaps a hundred ways. At the very least they want glory and renown. But regretably, unfortunate women practise hypocrisy in another form in order to be saved from the evil and oppression of tyrannical men; this sort arises from weakness and impotence.
...source: risale-i nur collection
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:28:42 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

Response: Unless you can confirm that you have been to Hell and back and saw otherwise, then the only evidence of deficiency in intelligence being displayed is on your part. Not Islam.

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/24/2016 12:46:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:36:32 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:30:11 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

On small point of contention. It is not, of course, that women are inferior to men. IQ gender-specific studies have shown the curves do not superimpose exactly. Men tend to occupy the extremes more sharply than women, i. e., meaning their IQ concentrates more expressively on the lower and upper limits of the bell curve, more so than women's.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, though I can't be bothered to locate the studies which describe this general trend in detail.

Anyway, I vehemently oppose any misogynist world view and I certainly would agree that Islam appears to fit that description.

I don't see how that's an issue of contention? If you agree men and women have equal iq scores on average I don't see where your contention with my claim is? I didn't claim that iq trends were identical I merely stated claims that women are on average are less intelligent then men are incorrect.

Granted.
It's not a point of contention but a point of clarification then.
It isn't even necessarily addressed at you, but I feel it is worth stating that men and women are equivalent, but different, as one would expect from the tipping ends of a very long evolutionary process of specialization, that their brains are wired differently, that they tend to excel at different activities.

I feel this needs to be stressed for I detect a disturbing contemporary tendency to neglect and sometimes even obfuscate these differences in the name of blind socio-political biases. Again, this is not aimed at you specifically, just a general consideration I thought could enrich the thread.

Which is a great one, Chloe.
Osman35
Posts: 52
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4/24/2016 12:54:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
SECOND POINT
This year, although I had withdrawn from the life of society and was in seclusion, I looked at the world for the sake of some of my brothers and sisters who were Risale-i Nur students. I heard from most of the friends who visited me complaints about their family lives. "Alas!", I said, "Family life is the refuge of people, and particularly of Muslims, and a sort of Paradise, and a small world. Has this now started to break up as well?" I sought the reason and I understood that one or two covert groups were working to mislead the youth and drive the young to vice by exciting their appetites, so as to cause harm to Islamic social life and thereby to the religion of Islam. I also realized that one or two groups were working covertly and effectively to drive neglectful women down the wrong road. I understood too that a severe blow would be dealt to this Muslim nation from that quarter. I therefore categorically state the following to you my sisters and spiritual children:
The sole means of saving women"s happiness in the hereafter, and their happiness in this world, as well as saving their elevated innate qualities from corruption, is the training given by the religion of Islam; there is no other means. You hear about the situation into which the unfortunate women of Russia have fallen. It says in one part of the Risale-i Nur that no sensible man builds love and affection for his wife on her fleeting, superficial beauty of five to ten years; he should build it on her fine conduct, the
most permanent and best of beauty, which is particular to womanhood and its compassion. Then, when the unfortunate advances in years, her husband"s love for her will persist. For his wife is not merely a temporary helper and companion in this worldly life, but an eternal, lovable companion in everlasting life, so the older they grow their love for each other should also grow, and their compassion and respect. Under the guise of culture and civilization, family life is now is a temporary animal relationship followed by eternal separation, and is being destroyed at its very foundations.

In another place in the Risale-i Nur it says: "Happy the man who in order not to lose his companion of eternity, copies his righteous wife and so becomes righteous himself. And happy the woman who, seeing her husband to be pious, adheres to religion herself so as not to lose her everlasting friend and companion. Unhappy the man who follows his wife in sin, does not try to make her give it up, but joins her. And unhappy the woman who, seeing her husband"s sinfulness, follows him in another way. And alas for the wife and husband who assist one another in throwing each other into the Fire. That is, who encourage one another to embrace the evils of civilization."
These lines have the following meaning: at this time, Islamic conduct within the bounds of the Shari"a is the only means of developing family life and finding happiness in this world and the hereafter, and causing the elevated qualities of women to unfold. Now, the most important matter in family life is this, that if the woman sees bad conduct and disloyalty in her husband and to spite him, stints in her loyalty and faithfulness to him, which is her duty as far as the family is concerned, then the factory of that family life will be thrown into confusion, exactly like discipline in the army being spoilt. The woman should try to reform her husband"s faults as far as she can in order to save her companion of eternity. It is harmful in every respect if she starts to show herself to others by unveiling herself and tries to make herself attractive to others. For a woman who gives up complete loyalty pays the penalty in this world too. Because it is her nature to be fearful and upset at the looks of those canonically strangers to her, and to avoid them. She is discomforted at the looks of eighteen out of twenty strangers. As for men, they are discomforted and upset at the looks of only one out of a hundred women who are canonically strangers to them. The woman suffers torment in that respect, and so too may be accused of disloyalty, and due to her weakness, will be unable to defend her rights.

In Short: Just as in respect of compassion women do not resemble men in heroism and sincerity, and men cannot compare with them in that regard; so too innocent women can in no way compare with men in vice. For this reason by their natures and weakness, they are truly frightened of strangers and feel themselves compelled to conceal themselves beneath their abundant outer garments. For if for eight minutes" pleasure a man commits sin, he only suffers a loss of eight liras. But as the penalty of the pleasure of eight minutes" sin, in this world the woman bears a heavy load for eight months and then has the hardship of rearing the unprotected child for eight years. She therefore cannot compete with men in vice and pays a penalty a hundred times greater.

The not infrequent incidents of this sort show that just as by nature women are the source of elevated morals, so do they virtually lack the capacity for worldly pleasure in vice and dissipation. That is to say, they are a type of blessed creature created to pass happy lives in the family within the bounds laid down by Islam. God damn those covert groups who are corrupting these blessed creatures! And may Almighty God preserve my sisters from the evil of such dissolute wretches.

My sisters! I have this to say to you confidentially: rather than entering under the domination of a dissolute, immoral, Westernized husband due to straitened circumstances, try to economize and obtain your own livelihood like innocent peasant women with the frugality and contentment which is in your natures; do not try to sell yourselves. If it is your fate to have a husband who is unsuitable for you, be content with your fate and resigned to it. God willing, he will be reformed through your contentment and resignation. But to apply to the courts for a divorce, which I have heard of recently; that is not in keeping with the honour of Islam and this nation"s good name!
...source: risale-i nur collection
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 12:59:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:46:52 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:36:32 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:30:11 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

On small point of contention. It is not, of course, that women are inferior to men. IQ gender-specific studies have shown the curves do not superimpose exactly. Men tend to occupy the extremes more sharply than women, i. e., meaning their IQ concentrates more expressively on the lower and upper limits of the bell curve, more so than women's.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, though I can't be bothered to locate the studies which describe this general trend in detail.

Anyway, I vehemently oppose any misogynist world view and I certainly would agree that Islam appears to fit that description.

I don't see how that's an issue of contention? If you agree men and women have equal iq scores on average I don't see where your contention with my claim is? I didn't claim that iq trends were identical I merely stated claims that women are on average are less intelligent then men are incorrect.

Granted.
It's not a point of contention but a point of clarification then.
It isn't even necessarily addressed at you, but I feel it is worth stating that men and women are equivalent, but different, as one would expect from the tipping ends of a very long evolutionary process of specialization, that their brains are wired differently, that they tend to excel at different activities.

I feel this needs to be stressed for I detect a disturbing contemporary tendency to neglect and sometimes even obfuscate these differences in the name of blind socio-political biases. Again, this is not aimed at you specifically, just a general consideration I thought could enrich the thread.

Which is a great one, Chloe.

Fair enough i see your point. When I made the thread the main aim was to attack Islam and it's sexist scripture and culture but yes your points are valid. Clearly the average man's brain works in a different way to the average women's brain with both genders evolving to specialise in their respective gender roles.
Osman35
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4/24/2016 1:04:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
THIRD POINT
My dear sisters, you should be certain that as is demonstrated with powerful proofs and examples in the Risale-i Nur, present in pleasures and enjoyment outside the bounds of the licit are pains and distress ten times greater. You may find detailed expositions of this in the Risale-i Nur. For instance, the Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Words from The Short Words and A Guide For Youth will elucidate this truth for you completely in place of me. In which case, make do with licit pleasures and be content with them. Innocent conversation with your innocent children in your home is more pleasurable than a hundred cinemas.
You should also know certainly that true pleasure in the life of this world lies in belief and the sphere of faith. There is an immaterial pleasure to be found in all good works. The Risale-i Nur has proved with hundreds of decisive evidences that even in this world most bitter and grievous suffering is present in vice and misguidance. I myself have experienced on numerous occasions as certainly as seeing it with my own eyes, that a seed of Paradise is contained in belief, while a seed of Hell is found in vice and misguidance. This truth is repeated many times in the Risale-i Nur. Although the Risale-i Nur has come into the hands of those who oppose it most obstinately and severely, they have been unable to refute this truth; neither have the committees of experts and the courts been able to refute it. Now, my blessed and innocent sisters and your children who are like my spiritual children, foremost the Treatise on Islamic Dress, and A Guide For Youth, and The Short Words should teach you in my place.

I have heard that you want me to teach you in the mosque, but my wretched state and my illness and many other circumstances do not permit it. I have decided to include all my sisters who read and accept this instruction which I have written for you in all my prayers and spiritual gains, like all the students of the Risale-i Nur. If you obtain and read part of the Risale-i Nur in my place, or listen to it, then in accordance with my rule you too will have a share in the prayers and spiritual gains of all the Risale-i Nur students, your brothers.

I was going to write more, but I am very ill and very weak and very old and have many duties like correcting copies of the Risale-i Nur, so for now I have sufficed with this much.

The Eternal One, He is the Eternal One!

Your brother who is in need of your prayers,

S a i d N u r s i
...source: risale-i nur collection
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.

So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 7:59:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:54:47 AM, Osman35 wrote:
SECOND POINT
This year, although I had withdrawn from the life of society and was in seclusion,

Despite our disagreements I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.

I looked at the world for the sake of some of my brothers and sisters who were Risale-i Nur students. I heard from most of the friends who visited me complaints about their family lives. "Alas!", I said, "Family life is the refuge of people, and particularly of Muslims, and a sort of Paradise, and a small world. Has this now started to break up as well?" I sought the reason and I understood that one or two covert groups were working to mislead the youth and drive the young to vice by exciting their appetites, so as to cause harm to Islamic social life and thereby to the religion of Islam. I also realized that one or two groups were working covertly and effectively to drive neglectful women down the wrong road. I understood too that a severe blow would be dealt to this Muslim nation from that quarter. I therefore categorically state the following to you my sisters and spiritual children:
The sole means of saving women"s happiness in the hereafter, and their happiness in this world, as well as saving their elevated innate qualities from corruption, is the training given by the religion of Islam; there is no other means.

That's incorrect. In non Islamic coutries women are respected as equal citizens and live free lives. It is much easier to live a happy life free from threats of controlling men, sexist discrimination, barbaric dress laws and equal job opportunities.

You hear about the situation into which the unfortunate women of Russia have fallen. It says in one part of the Risale-i Nur that no sensible man builds love and affection for his wife on her fleeting, superficial beauty of five to ten years; he should build it on her fine conduct, the

Clearly a relationship must be based on mutual attraction and compatible personalities. If one of the two does not exist the relationship never begins in my country.

most permanent and best of beauty, which is particular to womanhood and its compassion. Then, when the unfortunate advances in years, her husband"s love for her will persist.

Men become old too. Women also love their husband's when they become old and unsightly. You have to remember this. It's not just women that get old.

For his wife is not merely a temporary helper and companion in this worldly life, but an eternal, lovable companion in everlasting life, so the older they grow their love for each other should also grow, and their compassion and respect. Under the guise of culture and civilization, family life is now is a temporary animal relationship followed by eternal separation, and is being destroyed at its very foundations.

Eternal life is an unproven myth. Our only life is this life.

In another place in the Risale-i Nur it says: "Happy the man who in order not to lose his companion of eternity, copies his righteous wife and so becomes righteous himself. And happy the woman who, seeing her husband to be pious, adheres to religion herself so as not to lose her everlasting friend and companion. Unhappy the man who follows his wife in sin, does not try to make her give it up, but joins her. And unhappy the woman who, seeing her husband"s sinfulness, follows him in another way. And alas for the wife and husband who assist one another in throwing each other into the Fire. That is, who encourage one another to embrace the evils of civilization."

Hell does not exist. It's a myth.

These lines have the following meaning: at this time, Islamic conduct within the bounds of the Shari"a is the only means of developing family life and finding happiness in this world and the hereafter, and causing the elevated qualities of women to unfold. Now, the most important matter in family life is this, that if the woman sees bad conduct and disloyalty in her husband and to spite him, stints in her loyalty and faithfulness to him, which is her duty as far as the family is concerned, then the factory of that family life will be thrown into confusion, exactly like discipline in the army being spoilt. The woman should try to reform her husband"s faults as far as she can in order to save her companion of eternity. It is harmful in every respect if she starts to show herself to others by unveiling herself and tries to make herself attractive to others.

If I wear a hoodie and jeans I'm not attempting to make myself look attractive. I'm just going about normal life. If a man can't handle that it's his problem. Islam does not mandate men have to cover up. Why should women have to cover up? by not wearing a burqa an attractive married man will look appealing to women. It's extremely sexist and hypocritical.

For a woman who gives up complete loyalty pays the penalty in this world too. Because it is her nature to be fearful and upset at the looks of those canonically strangers to her, and to avoid them. She is discomforted at the looks of eighteen out of twenty strangers.

So what. Looking at someone is not a crime.

As for men, they are discomforted and upset at the looks of only one out of a hundred women who are canonically strangers to them. The woman suffers torment in that respect, and so too may be accused of disloyalty, and due to her weakness, will be unable to defend her rights.

I'm not tormented by men looking at me. Here I am actively defending women's rights to be free from the captivity of the burqa.

In Short: Just as in respect of compassion women do not resemble men in heroism and sincerity, and men cannot compare with them in that regard; so too innocent women can in no way compare with men in vice.

Some women can beat men in fights. It happens. Some women fight off attackers.

For this reason by their natures and weakness, they are truly frightened of strangers and feel themselves compelled to conceal themselves beneath their abundant outer garments.

I'm not frightened of strangers. Nor do I feel compelled to wear a burqa. Women wear the burqa due to being brainwashed into thinking Islam is true and pressure from a sexist paternal society.

For if for eight minutes" pleasure a man commits sin, he only suffers a loss of eight liras. But as the penalty of the pleasure of eight minutes" sin, in this world the woman bears a heavy load for eight months and then has the hardship of rearing the unprotected child for eight years. She therefore cannot compete with men in vice and pays a penalty a hundred times greater.

I agree rape is a selfish immoral act. Rapists should receive the death penalty. Women are never to blame for being raped. It is the responsibility of men to refrain from immoral acts such as rape. A woman raped can have an abortion. She should not be published for being raped.

My sisters! I have this to say to you confidentially: rather than entering under the domination of a dissolute, immoral, Westernized husband due to straitened circumstances, try to economize and obtain your own livelihood like innocent peasant women with the frugality and contentment which is in your natures; do not try to sell yourselves.

I'm not going to enter a relationship under the domination or control of anybody. The only relationship I'm interested in is one of love, respect, mutual friendship and equality free from religious dogma.

If it is your fate to have a husband who is unsuitable for you, be content with your fate and resigned to it. God willing, he will be reformed through your contentment and resignation. But to apply to the courts for a divorce, which I have heard of recently; that is not in keeping with the honour of Islam and this nation"s good name!

Absolutely not! That's ludicrous! No woman should be forced to endure a relationship with someone she does not like.
desmac
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4/24/2016 8:42:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 12:28:42 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men. Considering throughout history women in Islamic cultures have been suppressed by men it seems likely that if Islam were true far more men would break its barbaric and often immoral rules due to greater freedom to do so. This shows Islam is a false religion. No true god would hold such immoral, sexist and irrational views. Allah is an evil creation of 7th century men.

For proof read this;

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826)
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: I observed prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) on the 'Id day. He commenced with prayer before the sermon without Adhan and Iqama. He then stood up leaning on Bilal, and he commanded (them) to be on guard (against evil for the sake of) Allah, and he exhorted (them) on obedience to Him, and he preached to the people and admonished them. He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell. A woman having a dark spot on the cheek stood up and said: Why is it so, Messenger of Allah? He said: For you grumble often and show ingratitude to your spouse. And then they began to give alms out of their ornaments such as their earrings and rings which they threw on to the cloth of Bilal. (Sahih Muslim 4:1926)
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn"t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah"s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1052.)
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah"s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 1462.)

Response: Unless you can confirm that you have been to Hell and back and saw otherwise, then the only evidence of deficiency in intelligence being displayed is on your part. Not Islam.

As there is no such place as hell, nobody can go there or come back.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/24/2016 11:03:09 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 8:20:41 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Chloe8 .
Stop it .
Just stop it. Please
Society forum is open .

No, please do not stop Chloe8.
Expose these sickening doctrines for the sickening doctrines that they are.
tarantula
Posts: 850
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4/24/2016 1:07:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Sexism is ghastly. There are some extreme Christians who believe women should be subservient to the male of the species!
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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4/24/2016 1:18:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men.

Yet I have heard that there will be at least 7 virgin women for every Muslim man in heaven. It would be nice to know how it really is. :)
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time. More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women. Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban. Women are less desirous as they age. So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.
Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them. What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely. All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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4/24/2016 2:41:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 8:20:41 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Chloe8 .
Stop it .
Just stop it. Please
Society forum is open .

Why should she stop it? Chloe8 simply posted a controversial opinion about religion, which is the whole point of a religion forum on a debate website.
:) nac
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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4/24/2016 3:02:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time. More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women. Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban. Women are less desirous as they age. So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.
Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them. What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely. All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.

Your maternal ancestor was seduced by a snake, Hari? That explains a lot about you.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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4/24/2016 3:10:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 2:41:11 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 8:20:41 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Chloe8 .
Stop it .
Just stop it. Please
Society forum is open .

Why should she stop it? Chloe8 simply posted a controversial opinion about religion, which is the whole point of a religion forum on a debate website.

No I was commenting to her post about somthing else. You got me wrong. If you scroll up you can see I was talking about something else.
I like this post.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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4/24/2016 3:11:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 2:41:11 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 8:20:41 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Chloe8 .
Stop it .
Just stop it. Please
Society forum is open .

Why should she stop it? Chloe8 simply posted a controversial opinion about religion, which is the whole point of a religion forum on a debate website.

The context of post 2
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/24/2016 5:46:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:10:27 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:41:11 PM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 8:20:41 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Chloe8 .
Stop it .
Just stop it. Please
Society forum is open .

Why should she stop it? Chloe8 simply posted a controversial opinion about religion, which is the whole point of a religion forum on a debate website.

No I was commenting to her post about somthing else. You got me wrong. If you scroll up you can see I was talking about something else.
I like this post.

Shouldn't you wait till your confusion clears before posting or check the calander before posting? You don't do too well on odd days.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/24/2016 5:58:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 3:02:41 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time. More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women. Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban. Women are less desirous as they age. So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.
Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them. What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely. All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.

Your maternal ancestor was seduced by a snake, Hari? That explains a lot about you.

Stay on topic you retard.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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4/24/2016 8:06:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 5:58:52 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 3:02:41 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time. More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women. Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban. Women are less desirous as they age. So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.
Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them. What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely. All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.

Your maternal ancestor was seduced by a snake, Hari? That explains a lot about you.

Stay on topic you retard.

Do you not claim your ancestry from Eve?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 8:23:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

Exactly. Islam and Christianity are both extremely sexist. Their scripture clearly regards women as being inferior to men. This shows both religions were made up by bronze age men, modified by 1st century men and in the case of Islam further modified by 7th century men. All these men had something in common. Like you they thought of themselves as being superior to women.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time.

That's quite funny because in another thread you claimed western women were lonely and men weren't interested in them. Very contradictory.

In the uk not many women have 20 sexual partners in their lifetime.

http://www.independent.co.uk...

More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women.

Agree. These are bad things. I would ban pornography. I think it demeans the status of women and has a negative effect on children and young adults.

Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban.

That's up to them. They are free to live the lives they want to live. You have no right to dictate what they should do.

Women are less desirous as they age.

So are men.

So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.

It's pretty easy for women to find partners in the uk. There are lots of old single men as well. If these people want to be single then it's their decision. It's certainly easier for old women to find old men if they desire a relationship then the other way round.

Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them.

Polygamy. That nonsensical system leads to one man with 4 wives and 3 lonely old men with no wife. Many Muslim men likely do think like this while others are violent, controlling and abusive towards their wives.

What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely.

It's silly how Islam condemns a woman for showing her legs but justifies fivesomes! abuse is never justified. If a woman is being beaten against her will then it is domestic abuse.

All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.

All I sense is your frustration that I am exposing the flaws in all three of your religions which you use to justify your sexism. If you don't like what I say ignore my threads.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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4/24/2016 8:26:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 1:18:48 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/23/2016 10:52:21 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
Islam is clearly an extremely sexist religion. The Qur'an makes false claims women are less intelligent then men and also claims they are more likely to go to hell than men.

Yet I have heard that there will be at least 7 virgin women for every Muslim man in heaven. It would be nice to know how it really is. :)

I assume they think Allah creates the women in adult form in heaven. What utter nonsense!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/24/2016 9:39:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/24/2016 8:06:52 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/24/2016 5:58:52 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 3:02:41 PM, desmac wrote:
At 4/24/2016 1:33:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/24/2016 7:27:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 4/24/2016 2:37:15 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/24/2016 12:43:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The burden of proof is upon you to prove hell exists. You have no way of proving it exists. Meanwhile iq test studies clearly show that when given an equal education women score equally to men in terms of iq. My iq is 122 so it's factually wrong to claim I have a deficiency in intelligence.

Response: The burden of proof is on you to prove Hell does not exist, which you clearly have none. Furthermore, the hadith does not make a general statement about intelligence because it clearly follows up and answers what is meant and refers only to women in Islam being deficient in intelligence when dealing with the Islamic practice of two witnesses for business transactions. In Islam, a woman who chooses to be a housewife and not work will naturally be less intelligent in financial transactions and business dealings since she does not work. That is what the hadith is referring to in context.

No one alive today has ever been to hell. No evidence of it exists. It's up to theists like yourself to find verifiable evidence of it. I'm pretty sure you think Santa is a myth? What if I claimed he definitely existed? You would claim it would be up to me to prove he exists. Obviously I would have no evidence apart from myths. In this case it's only fair that it's up to me to provide varifiable evidence proving a myth is true. The same applies with hell. Unless it's proven its simply a myth.

Why Is a housewife deficient in intelligence? That statement is derogatory, prejudicial, bigoted and sexist.


So perhaps your iq may be good in everything except reading comprehension since you clearly misread or ignored the rest of the hadith that clearly explains what is meant.

I read clearly the Qur'an claims women are inferior to men intellectually and outnumber men in hell.

Eve was desirous of knowledge and was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge. Adam was already blessed with intelligence. Eve was seduced by a snake. All the patriarchs and prophets were men, women were considered unreliable and inferior. Sarah was a prostitute and many women in the Bible were associated with immorality, That is two great religions agreeing women are inferior and should honour their men.

So where are women like you today. The average western women have more casual sex and have about 20 male sexual partners in the life time. More women are entering into prostitution and joining the porn industry which further demean the status of women. Women are less marriageable today and more of them remain single and end up in senior homes with no family or husban. Women are less desirous as they age. So after all the casual sex they find themselves alone and desperately lonely, rejected and unattractive.
Muslim women on the other hand are desired and Muslim men love their purity of character and beauty so much that they are willing to marry 4 of them. What is seen as beating of Muslim women is often just the occasional rough sex that is common in most relationships were the couples are passionately in love and a fivesome makes it just more likely. All I sense in your jealousy and envy of Muslim women. Even when Muslim women choose careers they remain pure to their faith.

Your maternal ancestor was seduced by a snake, Hari? That explains a lot about you.

Stay on topic you retard.

Do you not claim your ancestry from Eve?

Stay on topic you retard.