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On theist vs atheist debates

Aguilajoyce
Posts: 12
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4/25/2016 2:59:30 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The odd observation:
Such clashes (Stonehe4rt & Heirio) http://www.debate.org...
reveal so little regarding the nature of existence, and yet so much about the nature of man. Both acknowledge causality, but one demands a definite while the other is resigned to the fact that this "definite" has yet to be determined.

The rejection of the belief in a God-authored universe is not that randomness suits us better, it is b/c even if we did concede that god is the meaning behind the universe, it would not answer the ultimate question of man, which is 'why are we here?' (Without raising more questions) and 'why do 'bad' things (death and sickness) befall us, despite our greatest efforts to the contrary? The fact that our perception is not bound to our mortality (present time) is the most difficult aspect of our existence, because it keeps the impossible ever present before us, and yet we would not have made it this far without it. Lol.
Meanwhile, our observations continually reveal that cause and effect in the natural world is not bound to any order that we recognize. So whether we throw our lot in with God (whose actions in the universe are said to be beyond our knowledge) or science (which explains in happenings in retrospect and attempts to predict future occurrences), neither however produces the purposeful/meaningful 'why' behind all existence..

It could be posited, therefore, that this 'need to know' is a pathology of man (survival instinct run amok); that he simply presumes his significance in light of all the evolutionary strides that he's made i.e., many assume that we are set apart from nature because we have created our 'world' on top of it, so to speak...

But the quote by Stephen Crane best sums the answer:
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."

So for me, and many others, if I will not be satiated by either, why choose the option that aims to impose upon me an obligation to something that refuses to give me the answer to the very question that I seek, and worse, asks that I defy all that I observe in reality (the key to my survival).

It is because the goal for religions is not to simply comfort us with the answer to that age-old question, but to act as a foundation on which our thoughts and actions can be directed. If this wasn't the end, then there would just be a God (whose reasons were unknowable) sans the narrative...and the explanations would be deemed just as impotent as those offered by science...lol
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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4/25/2016 3:21:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Recognizing God is one thing, the relationship is another.

Sho'nuff
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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4/25/2016 3:32:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/25/2016 2:59:30 AM, Aguilajoyce wrote:
The odd observation:
Such clashes (Stonehe4rt & Heirio) http://www.debate.org...
reveal so little regarding the nature of existence, and yet so much about the nature of man. Both acknowledge causality, but one demands a definite while the other is resigned to the fact that this "definite" has yet to be determined.

The rejection of the belief in a God-authored universe is not that randomness suits us better, it is b/c even if we did concede that god is the meaning behind the universe, it would not answer the ultimate question of man, which is 'why are we here?' (Without raising more questions) and 'why do 'bad' things (death and sickness) befall us, despite our greatest efforts to the contrary? The fact that our perception is not bound to our mortality (present time) is the most difficult aspect of our existence, because it keeps the impossible ever present before us, and yet we would not have made it this far without it. Lol.
Meanwhile, our observations continually reveal that cause and effect in the natural world is not bound to any order that we recognize. So whether we throw our lot in with God (whose actions in the universe are said to be beyond our knowledge) or science (which explains in happenings in retrospect and attempts to predict future occurrences), neither however produces the purposeful/meaningful 'why' behind all existence..

It could be posited, therefore, that this 'need to know' is a pathology of man (survival instinct run amok); that he simply presumes his significance in light of all the evolutionary strides that he's made i.e., many assume that we are set apart from nature because we have created our 'world' on top of it, so to speak...

But the quote by Stephen Crane best sums the answer:
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."

So for me, and many others, if I will not be satiated by either, why choose the option that aims to impose upon me an obligation to something that refuses to give me the answer to the very question that I seek, and worse, asks that I defy all that I observe in reality (the key to my survival).

It is because the goal for religions is not to simply comfort us with the answer to that age-old question, but to act as a foundation on which our thoughts and actions can be directed. If this wasn't the end, then there would just be a God (whose reasons were unknowable) sans the narrative...and the explanations would be deemed just as impotent as those offered by science...lol

I hope you thank god for creating your computer. Stoopid scientists.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin