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A Discussion about Hell

The_Critically_Rational
Posts: 20
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4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/26/2016 11:39:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

To be honest I have not watched the video's, because I am not really interested in what they say about it.

In fact the only thing I am interested in is what the Bible say.

Despite the way Apostates twist the mainly figurative descriptions of Hell in the Bible, it si truly a state not a place.

It is in fact a state of temporary non existence. Simple as that.

The Greek word for it is Hades, and the Hebrew Sheol, but the more accurate translations simply render both as "the grave".

I' will happily explain what I am saying to any who wish to know, including the scriptures, but to know the truth of it yourself you really need, as the Christ said, to get to know both Jehovah, the father and his only begotten son who became the Christ. (John 17:3).

When you get to know them both, the one thing that will strike you most powerfully is just how completely out of character even the thought of a place of torment truly is.

Those who know them know beyond any doubt that neither would even dream of such a place as anything more than an illustration, a teaching aid, certainly not as a reality.

Jehovah is the God of Love, Wisdom Justice and Mercy, and even the thought of a literal place of torment violates all four principles.

In fact, as a belief, it was invented, and is supported by, sadistic people who only want to control the behaviour of others with dire threats of unimaginable suffering.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 11:48:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:39:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

To be honest I have not watched the video's, because I am not really interested in what they say about it.

In fact the only thing I am interested in is what the Bible say.

Despite the way Apostates twist the mainly figurative descriptions of Hell in the Bible, it si truly a state not a place.

It is in fact a state of temporary non existence. Simple as that.

The Greek word for it is Hades, and the Hebrew Sheol, but the more accurate translations simply render both as "the grave".

I' will happily explain what I am saying to any who wish to know, including the scriptures, but to know the truth of it yourself you really need, as the Christ said, to get to know both Jehovah, the father and his only begotten son who became the Christ. (John 17:3).

When you get to know them both, the one thing that will strike you most powerfully is just how completely out of character even the thought of a place of torment truly is.

Those who know them know beyond any doubt that neither would even dream of such a place as anything more than an illustration, a teaching aid, certainly not as a reality.

Jehovah is the God of Love, Wisdom Justice and Mercy, and even the thought of a literal place of torment violates all four principles.

In fact, as a belief, it was invented, and is supported by, sadistic people who only want to control the behaviour of others with dire threats of unimaginable suffering.

You haven't watched any of the videos and yet feel compelled to comment on them.

This is the kind of intelectual dishonesty being a Witness, even a long time disfellowshipped one, traps you in. Should I ever need to explain to someone how damaging to one's personal integrity and moral backbone being a Jehovah's Witness is, I will simply show it by redirecting him to this site to read such long and dark tradition of putrid posts by you.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/26/2016 11:54:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:48:18 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:39:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

To be honest I have not watched the video's, because I am not really interested in what they say about it.

In fact the only thing I am interested in is what the Bible say.

Despite the way Apostates twist the mainly figurative descriptions of Hell in the Bible, it si truly a state not a place.

It is in fact a state of temporary non existence. Simple as that.

The Greek word for it is Hades, and the Hebrew Sheol, but the more accurate translations simply render both as "the grave".

I' will happily explain what I am saying to any who wish to know, including the scriptures, but to know the truth of it yourself you really need, as the Christ said, to get to know both Jehovah, the father and his only begotten son who became the Christ. (John 17:3).

When you get to know them both, the one thing that will strike you most powerfully is just how completely out of character even the thought of a place of torment truly is.

Those who know them know beyond any doubt that neither would even dream of such a place as anything more than an illustration, a teaching aid, certainly not as a reality.

Jehovah is the God of Love, Wisdom Justice and Mercy, and even the thought of a literal place of torment violates all four principles.

In fact, as a belief, it was invented, and is supported by, sadistic people who only want to control the behaviour of others with dire threats of unimaginable suffering.

You haven't watched any of the videos and yet feel compelled to comment on them.

I am commenting on the subject not the videos. I think I made that clear.


This is the kind of intelectual dishonesty being a Witness, even a long time disfellowshipped one, traps you in. Should I ever need to explain to someone how damaging to one's personal integrity and moral backbone being a Jehovah's Witness is, I will simply show it by redirecting him to this site to read such long and dark tradition of putrid posts by you.

The only intellectual dishonesty is in your own mind.

I do not claim to be a JW, I simple discuss the Bible and the truth from it.

Integrity and "moral backbone" are something that no-one can survive being a JW without. Those who do not develop them soon fall away again, as is borne witness to by the discrepancy between the rate of increase and the actual number of new baptisms and Bible Studies.

If those who cannot stand the pace, and the lying opposition as such as you, they don;t last long. Being a follower of Christ is no easy task as Matthew 10 makes extremely clear.

The true moral cowards are those who hide from the truth as you do.
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.
Jesus loves you.

////////////

-Funny Links-
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 12:15:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:54:52 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:48:18 AM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:39:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

To be honest I have not watched the video's, because I am not really interested in what they say about it.

In fact the only thing I am interested in is what the Bible say.

Despite the way Apostates twist the mainly figurative descriptions of Hell in the Bible, it si truly a state not a place.

It is in fact a state of temporary non existence. Simple as that.

The Greek word for it is Hades, and the Hebrew Sheol, but the more accurate translations simply render both as "the grave".

I' will happily explain what I am saying to any who wish to know, including the scriptures, but to know the truth of it yourself you really need, as the Christ said, to get to know both Jehovah, the father and his only begotten son who became the Christ. (John 17:3).

When you get to know them both, the one thing that will strike you most powerfully is just how completely out of character even the thought of a place of torment truly is.

Those who know them know beyond any doubt that neither would even dream of such a place as anything more than an illustration, a teaching aid, certainly not as a reality.

Jehovah is the God of Love, Wisdom Justice and Mercy, and even the thought of a literal place of torment violates all four principles.

In fact, as a belief, it was invented, and is supported by, sadistic people who only want to control the behaviour of others with dire threats of unimaginable suffering.

You haven't watched any of the videos and yet feel compelled to comment on them.

I am commenting on the subject not the videos. I think I made that clear.


This is the kind of intelectual dishonesty being a Witness, even a long time disfellowshipped one, traps you in. Should I ever need to explain to someone how damaging to one's personal integrity and moral backbone being a Jehovah's Witness is, I will simply show it by redirecting him to this site to read such long and dark tradition of putrid posts by you.

The only intellectual dishonesty is in your own mind.

I do not claim to be a JW, I simple discuss the Bible and the truth from it.

Integrity and "moral backbone" are something that no-one can survive being a JW without. Those who do not develop them soon fall away again, as is borne witness to by the discrepancy between the rate of increase and the actual number of new baptisms and Bible Studies.

If those who cannot stand the pace, and the lying opposition as such as you, they don;t last long. Being a follower of Christ is no easy task as Matthew 10 makes extremely clear.

The true moral cowards are those who hide from the truth as you do.

The topic concerns two videos.

As usual, you decide to cast aspersions even though you haven't watched them. A child can see this for the intelectual dishonesty and intelectual cowardice that it is.

People who're so afraid to watch contrarian material, goodness forbid they might rationally change their minds, display the kind of ataxic fear that is hardly compatible with the condition of adulthood.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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4/26/2016 4:16:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

Hi, Hope you are well., ------ The facts of the matter of eternal suffering teaching.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- ALL of Gods ways are justice---means he applies justice( love, and wisdom, (and power when needed) to every dealing. He taught us perfect justice= an eye for an eye--- a perfect balance on Gods uncorruptable justice scales. Lets apply those scales to eternal suffering

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin--- on the other side trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc, of never ending years of eternal punishment.

No balance on those scales--thus they are not Gods justice scales--thus a false teaching by blind guides who do not know God in false religions claiming to be Christian.
It was symbolism and here are the facts of that-- It says--- a place where the worm dieth not-- there isn't a worm in existence that could survive more than 15 minutes in a hot firey place. But 6 feet under is where the worm dieth not.
The teachings on the matter, found in the bible were symbolic for the value of what is lost by those thrown into the lake of fire( destruction)--As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those eternally cut off from God are missing each new dawning day-eternally.
So my advice to those listening to the false teachers who teach eternal suffering---RUN.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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4/26/2016 5:23:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

Okay so I watched the entire video in the first link, going to watch yours next when I get a min. So this is my assessment of the video, Dillahunty takes aim at various descriptions and doctrines about Hell that maybe some institutions allegedly put forward.
So basically he sets up the doctrine or what I would call a straw man and then briefly pokes holes in what he believes to be weaknesses or flaws in it, but what is the point here really and why does he not make it clear? Christianity is not a set of doctrines that one must adhere to escape some torture pit lol, anyone teaching or proclaiming that has missed the mark, that is not the focus of what the Gospels and Epistles are, it's a very small fraction of knowledge.
So what is the argument or discussion here, how some religions twist and manipulate scriptures? for whatever purposes? we all knew that already, what does it have to do with what Jesus taught? I addressed Matt Dillahunty in one of his posts in the thread to see where he is coming from if anyone wants to read along...
My question to you is, what exactly would you like to discuss in this topic? I agree that churches and people twist and bend scriptures and use them in the wrong ways...is that what you want to hear or discuss?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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4/26/2016 6:17:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

Okay I watched the second video and simply agree with a point you make, to drill a kid with hell fire doctrines is abuse, had this happened to you?
Where and when is "hell" being pushed to teach in schools lol? do you mean creation or an alternative to naturalism? I'm unaware of this call to teach punishment in hell in schools....
I then agree with your next point, that there should be clarification and options on all worldviews and theories, but that is not happening in schools...it's certainly not creationist friendly, I've had several children in the public schools and it's not a theistic situation...
Who is taking advantage of your minds in a secular industry? creationists don't stand a chance, at least not from where I'm from.
My next question...who is all these parents telling their children their going to hell if they don't follow something? did your parents do that? if so then they missed the mark and focus greatly, I agree with all of that.
Yes, fear should not be a motivating factor when selecting or considering worldviews, especially when the scripture states in 2 Timothy that "7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
The Spirit casts out fear, not enforces it.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
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4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
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4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 7:16:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.

So this topic started off with two Youtube videos you casted aspersions on.
And you want me to pick a point?

I can already sense the depth of your theology.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
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4/26/2016 7:19:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:16:18 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.

So this topic started off with two Youtube videos you casted aspersions on.
And you want me to pick a point?

I can already sense the depth of your theology.

Yes pick a point that this gentleman made and we can discuss it.

I have better things to do than write thousands of characters refuting the entirety of his video.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 7:23:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:19:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:16:18 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.

So this topic started off with two Youtube videos you casted aspersions on.
And you want me to pick a point?

I can already sense the depth of your theology.

Yes pick a point that this gentleman made and we can discuss it.

I have better things to do than write thousands of characters refuting the entirety of his video.

I got my answer.

"No alarms and No surprises" - Radiohead.
The_Critically_Rational
Posts: 20
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4/26/2016 7:24:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

We are in agreement here.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,285
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4/26/2016 7:25:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:23:20 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:19:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:16:18 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.

So this topic started off with two Youtube videos you casted aspersions on.
And you want me to pick a point?

I can already sense the depth of your theology.

Yes pick a point that this gentleman made and we can discuss it.

I have better things to do than write thousands of characters refuting the entirety of his video.

I got my answer.

"No alarms and No surprises" - Radiohead.

Very well, you don't want to discuss the video. Enjoy!
The_Critically_Rational
Posts: 20
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4/26/2016 7:30:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 11:39:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

To be honest I have not watched the video's, because I am not really interested in what they say about it.

In fact the only thing I am interested in is what the Bible say.

Despite the way Apostates twist the mainly figurative descriptions of Hell in the Bible, it si truly a state not a place.

It is in fact a state of temporary non existence. Simple as that.

The Greek word for it is Hades, and the Hebrew Sheol, but the more accurate translations simply render both as "the grave".

I' will happily explain what I am saying to any who wish to know, including the scriptures, but to know the truth of it yourself you really need, as the Christ said, to get to know both Jehovah, the father and his only begotten son who became the Christ. (John 17:3).

When you get to know them both, the one thing that will strike you most powerfully is just how completely out of character even the thought of a place of torment truly is.

Those who know them know beyond any doubt that neither would even dream of such a place as anything more than an illustration, a teaching aid, certainly not as a reality.

Jehovah is the God of Love, Wisdom Justice and Mercy, and even the thought of a literal place of torment violates all four principles.

In fact, as a belief, it was invented, and is supported by, sadistic people who only want to control the behaviour of others with dire threats of unimaginable suffering.

I mean no disrespect but I am in no way interested in speaking with people who are interested in preaching rather than respecting what I have to say about the subject or other people have to say as well. I can only view your post as disrespectful to my thoughts on this topic.

If you wish to have separate discussions, we will create a private chat either on Google/Facebook or whatever since I'm currently unaware of PM on this site, but your current post is off topic and I won't deviate from the original intent of the discussion.
The_Critically_Rational
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4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."
Dragon_of_Christ
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4/26/2016 7:38:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

Scientifically thinking.

It cannot be logically proven which trancends science.
Jesus loves you.

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http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 7:38:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:25:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:23:20 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:19:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:16:18 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:12:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:10:25 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 4/26/2016 6:42:03 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)

meh. Same lack of theological depth and strawmans that go on here.

Would you please enlighten us, oh Obi-Wan Kenobi of theology?

I have plenty to say on the matter but I'll save it for when and if you actually have anything substantial to say.

Pick a point he made you'd like to discuss.

So this topic started off with two Youtube videos you casted aspersions on.
And you want me to pick a point?

I can already sense the depth of your theology.

Yes pick a point that this gentleman made and we can discuss it.

I have better things to do than write thousands of characters refuting the entirety of his video.

I got my answer.

"No alarms and No surprises" - Radiohead.

Very well, you don't want to discuss the video. Enjoy!

I see you don't know how this works. You made certain pronouncements about the videos, which you have thus far refused to substantiate.

Your move, Geogeer.
Dragon_of_Christ
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4/26/2016 7:39:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

*logically disproven

XD fail
Jesus loves you.

////////////

-Funny Links-
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
Athomos
Posts: 401
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4/26/2016 7:44:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:39:11 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

*logically disproven

XD fail

So you don't know how we go about establishing things?
Ok.
Educate yourself.
Negatives cannot be disproven.

The burden of proof lies with those like you who insist Hell is real. Make your case. The wait for evidence has lasted 2 0000 years now.

Are you trying to tell me, it's not happening?

Shocker.
The_Critically_Rational
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4/26/2016 7:49:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 4:16:11 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 4/26/2016 10:19:06 AM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and am definitely looking to exercise my mind some more. I hope to have many discussions with people that hold different positions than mine, and also of course the same. I wanted to present 2 videos starting out on my first Topic.

The first video involves Matthew Dillahunty giving a talk on Hell:

https://www.youtube.com...

The second involves my thoughts on the video and essentially adding to it:

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm thrilled to speak with anyone on the subject and am anxious to hear your thoughts. Feel free to respond on here or YouTube. I will get the notification of your response. Thanks for having me! ;)



Hi, Hope you are well., ------ The facts of the matter of eternal suffering teaching.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- ALL of Gods ways are justice---means he applies justice( love, and wisdom, (and power when needed) to every dealing. He taught us perfect justice= an eye for an eye--- a perfect balance on Gods uncorruptable justice scales. Lets apply those scales to eternal suffering

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin--- on the other side trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc, of never ending years of eternal punishment.

No balance on those scales--thus they are not Gods justice scales--thus a false teaching by blind guides who do not know God in false religions claiming to be Christian.
It was symbolism and here are the facts of that-- It says--- a place where the worm dieth not-- there isn't a worm in existence that could survive more than 15 minutes in a hot firey place. But 6 feet under is where the worm dieth not.
The teachings on the matter, found in the bible were symbolic for the value of what is lost by those thrown into the lake of fire( destruction)--As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those eternally cut off from God are missing each new dawning day-eternally.
So my advice to those listening to the false teachers who teach eternal suffering---RUN.

I am in complete agreement with you about running from teachings of eternal torment, but I do have to say that even if you are appealing to a simple Separation from God, where Hell is symbolic to this point, then I have to say that this position causes humans to devalue their lives and render them meaningless without God. The problem I have with this version is that it suggests that you are born a sinner and without following in God's teachings, you are completely cut off from eternal life. Now I am not suggesting that infants and children will be cut off, because the Bible actually teaches that they are welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

The biggest issue that bothers me about this is the concept of sin. Sin is attributed to things that are clearly bad and appalling, but it also appeals to what makes us human beings. Take sex for example. The Bible holds true to the sanctity of marriage and thus you should save yourself until such a union has been obtained. That to me is denying a basic human instinct and prohibiting pleasure that is not harmful to others. It's just hurting God's feelings.

I'm happy to speak with another professional here on this thread so let's talk some more very soon! I'm pressed for time right now, but will respond to everything else later this evening. Enjoy your day everyone!
The_Critically_Rational
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4/26/2016 7:51:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:39:11 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

*logically disproven

XD fail

What are suggesting here? Lol. Did someone have a misspelling? Or are you trying to make a point?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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4/26/2016 8:00:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

We are not asking you to prove a negative, rather stop rejecting or being close-minded to the nature of the spiritual and "supernatural" claims.... Lack of evidence in what? lack of evidence in atheistic terms means "some secular scientist hasn't repeated an experiment to show it exists" lol, but science is not compatible or capable of providing evidence of anything spiritual or outside of nature, that's not the function of its job and description, therefore it is not a reliable observation for anything other than material or the physical, if something does not have a material base it is out of the hands of science or lab experiments...ergo science is not an authority on what exists in ultimate reality and is not an authority on the existence of God, that is what religion is for, it's the study of the spiritual, not the physical.
The claim it's an "idea without justification" is an atheistic claim, not having a scientist confirm it for them they believe it's all delusion or imaginations, unfortunately they are relying on faulty judgement and limited knowledge.
There are many justifications for a Creator and many logical assessments for being Christian, it's only propaganda that there is no justifications...
God, spirits, the after-life and spiritual reality have been shown time and time again to exist, through countless testimonies, cultures, eye-witnesses, literature, philosophy, theories and endless religions all testify to a spiritual existence. To claim there is no justification in the supernatural (spiritual) is absolutely ridiculous, it's just a matter of perception not justification.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/26/2016 8:12:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 8:00:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

We are not asking you to prove a negative, rather stop rejecting or being close-minded to the nature of the spiritual and "supernatural" claims.... Lack of evidence in what? lack of evidence in atheistic terms means "some secular scientist hasn't repeated an experiment to show it exists" lol, but science is not compatible or capable of providing evidence of anything spiritual or outside of nature, that's not the function of its job and description, therefore it is not a reliable observation for anything other than material or the physical, if something does not have a material base it is out of the hands of science or lab experiments...ergo science is not an authority on what exists in ultimate reality and is not an authority on the existence of God, that is what religion is for, it's the study of the spiritual, not the physical.
The claim it's an "idea without justification" is an atheistic claim, not having a scientist confirm it for them they believe it's all delusion or imaginations, unfortunately they are relying on faulty judgement and limited knowledge.
There are many justifications for a Creator and many logical assessments for being Christian, it's only propaganda that there is no justifications...
God, spirits, the after-life and spiritual reality have been shown time and time again to exist, through countless testimonies, cultures, eye-witnesses, literature, philosophy, theories and endless religions all testify to a spiritual existence. To claim there is no justification in the supernatural (spiritual) is absolutely ridiculous, it's just a matter of perception not justification.

All that and not one single, testable, verifiable or falsifiable fact. It has exactly zero value as evidence except to the mind that wants to believe it.
EtrnlVw
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4/26/2016 8:19:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 8:12:05 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/26/2016 8:00:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

We are not asking you to prove a negative, rather stop rejecting or being close-minded to the nature of the spiritual and "supernatural" claims.... Lack of evidence in what? lack of evidence in atheistic terms means "some secular scientist hasn't repeated an experiment to show it exists" lol, but science is not compatible or capable of providing evidence of anything spiritual or outside of nature, that's not the function of its job and description, therefore it is not a reliable observation for anything other than material or the physical, if something does not have a material base it is out of the hands of science or lab experiments...ergo science is not an authority on what exists in ultimate reality and is not an authority on the existence of God, that is what religion is for, it's the study of the spiritual, not the physical.
The claim it's an "idea without justification" is an atheistic claim, not having a scientist confirm it for them they believe it's all delusion or imaginations, unfortunately they are relying on faulty judgement and limited knowledge.
There are many justifications for a Creator and many logical assessments for being Christian, it's only propaganda that there is no justifications...
God, spirits, the after-life and spiritual reality have been shown time and time again to exist, through countless testimonies, cultures, eye-witnesses, literature, philosophy, theories and endless religions all testify to a spiritual existence. To claim there is no justification in the supernatural (spiritual) is absolutely ridiculous, it's just a matter of perception not justification.

All that and not one single, testable, verifiable or falsifiable fact. It has exactly zero value as evidence except to the mind that wants to believe it.

I was not attempting to present "testable, falsifiable" evidence Hardage, so what is your contention here exactly? I spoke mine already...

What " testable/falsifiable" fact are you seeking? I covered that in my post...anything outside some secular scientist showing you it exists is outside your paradigm. What good is that paradigm? that paradigm is not the same one I adhere to, I'm not an atheist or materialist.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/26/2016 8:21:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/26/2016 8:19:49 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/26/2016 8:12:05 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/26/2016 8:00:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/26/2016 7:36:47 PM, The_Critically_Rational wrote:
At 4/26/2016 12:05:32 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 4/26/2016 11:08:29 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence at all to suggest hell or heaven actually exist.

This is for christians who want christian answers.

There is also none proving it doesn't btw.

You can't prove a negative, which is what you're suggesting we do in order to validate our position. The reason we bring up lack of evidence for the existence of ANY supernatural claims is because of that very reason, lack of evidence. That's how we determine if something is true, by following the evidence where it leads and coming to a rational conclusion. There is currently no rational conclusion to suggest that Heaven or Hell exist. It simply falls under the category of an "Idea without justification."

We are not asking you to prove a negative, rather stop rejecting or being close-minded to the nature of the spiritual and "supernatural" claims.... Lack of evidence in what? lack of evidence in atheistic terms means "some secular scientist hasn't repeated an experiment to show it exists" lol, but science is not compatible or capable of providing evidence of anything spiritual or outside of nature, that's not the function of its job and description, therefore it is not a reliable observation for anything other than material or the physical, if something does not have a material base it is out of the hands of science or lab experiments...ergo science is not an authority on what exists in ultimate reality and is not an authority on the existence of God, that is what religion is for, it's the study of the spiritual, not the physical.
The claim it's an "idea without justification" is an atheistic claim, not having a scientist confirm it for them they believe it's all delusion or imaginations, unfortunately they are relying on faulty judgement and limited knowledge.
There are many justifications for a Creator and many logical assessments for being Christian, it's only propaganda that there is no justifications...
God, spirits, the after-life and spiritual reality have been shown time and time again to exist, through countless testimonies, cultures, eye-witnesses, literature, philosophy, theories and endless religions all testify to a spiritual existence. To claim there is no justification in the supernatural (spiritual) is absolutely ridiculous, it's just a matter of perception not justification.

All that and not one single, testable, verifiable or falsifiable fact. It has exactly zero value as evidence except to the mind that wants to believe it.

I was not attempting to present "testable, falsifiable" evidence Hardage, so what is your contention here exactly? I spoke mine already...

What " testable/falsifiable" fact are you seeking? I covered that in my post...anything outside some secular scientist showing you it exists is outside your paradigm. What good is that paradigm? that paradigm is not the same one I adhere to, I'm not an atheist or materialist.

Ok, so there's this leprechaun living under a toadstool in my back yard. Do you believe that?