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how to eliminate gospels?!

Artur
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4/27/2016 11:27:00 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
there are many gospels, not just 4. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
when we are confronted with christians, they use 4 gospels to present their case for Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. may be they are true or not, it is not important. I want to ask: why we must and should take that gospels seriously and we must ignore the others? how can we know these 4 are true and the rest is false? what makes that 4 true and others false?
a christian may say "because these 4 are canonical but the other 4 is not". but how can we know they way you chose the books is reliable and true? ok, we will see other gospels:
now, what makes something gospel? the dictionary will give us the answer:
http://www.dictionary.com...
the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2.
the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

now, in order something to be gospel, it must contain "the teachings of Jesus [of Nazareth] and apostles." in short, it either needs to be biography of Jesus of Nathareth or recordings of his philosophy. (or both)
and it must include the story of Christ's life and teachings.

I think in the link aforementioned there are more than 100 writings, in order to know which of them qualify for being gospel, we need to look at them (informations are deduced from wikipedia) :

1. Passion Narrative: it talks about the part of the ministry of Jesus close to his crucifixion. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
2. Lost sayings gospel: in too includes the sayins of Jesus. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
3. signs gospel: it also talks about the life of Jesus which makes it Gospel
4. Didache: "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" qualifies to be gospel
5. Gospel of Thomas: recorded sayings of Jesus. so, it is a gospel.
6-7. Oxyrhynchus 840-1224 Gospels: they both talk about events Jesus lived in his life. so they too are gospels.
8-9-10. Secret Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Peter, Egerton Gospel: all three talks about either stories from Life of Jesus or his quotes or both. so, they are gospels. we already have 10 gospels.
11. Mara Bar Serapion: it too talks somehing about probably Jesus. cant say whether Gospel or not.
12. Gospel of Egyptians: talks about creation and displays jesus as the one who will save souls of people from the evil prison known as creation (e.g: world)
13. gospel of hebrews: contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings
14-15. gospel of ebionites, gospel of nazarenes: they too are seena s gospel.
16. Gospel of eve: I think it is not a gospel because I did not find info on what it says. do not know whether it qualifies or not.
17. Gospel of Philip: it gives different insight to the teachings of Jesus but from the point of view of Mary Magdalene.
18. Gospel of Mary: talks about Jesus' adulthood. it too is a gospel
19. infancy gospel: talks about the childhood of Jesus
20. Gospel of the savious: it talks about a saviour but does not say what his name is, I assume (and presumably) that is Jesus. if so, it too is a gospel.

if I go on, I think it will be about 100. so, you got my point. there are many gospels. so, questions now:

if I am confronted by a christian and he says me"jesus is the best person of morale" and e.t.c why we cant talk about him using these gospels? some of them given "bad sides of Jesus"?! Christians will not accept it, I know. but just because they do not accept, consider it trustworthy does not mean they are false. it is like faschists talking and boasting about Adolf Hitler and his bad actions is talked they say "no, we do not trust on that source"

and, why should I believe in 4 gospels? how can I know they are true? even if that 4 is true, it does not make other gospels wrong/false.

they are canonised you may say but they are canonised long after Jesus which means canonisation does not give any credibility.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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4/27/2016 11:56:10 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 11:27:00 AM, Artur wrote:
there are many gospels, not just 4. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
when we are confronted with christians, they use 4 gospels to present their case for Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. may be they are true or not, it is not important. I want to ask: why we must and should take that gospels seriously and we must ignore the others?

Because the other haven't washed in three days, and they stink...no one likes those gospels...

how can we know these 4 are true and the rest is false?

Don't worry, rest assured...they are all false.

what makes that 4 true and others false?

Absolutely nothing other than wishful thinking and of course mild cannibalism.

a christian may say "because these 4 are canonical but the other 4 is not". but how can we know they way you chose the books is reliable and true?

Because the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Be warned, questioning "them" is like questioning God himself...*backs into shadows*...

ok, we will see other gospels:
now, what makes something gospel? the dictionary will give us the answer:
http://www.dictionary.com...
the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2.
the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

now, in order something to be gospel, it must contain "the teachings of Jesus [of Nazareth] and apostles."

And his claaaaaan.

in short, it either needs to be biography of Jesus of Nathareth or recordings of his philosophy. (or both)

Mixed with severe melodramaticism.

and it must include the story of Christ's life and teachings.

And his [SPOILER ALERT] death.

I think in the link aforementioned there are more than 100 writings, in order to know which of them qualify for being gospel, we need to look at them (informations are deduced from wikipedia) :

1. Passion Narrative: it talks about the part of the ministry of Jesus close to his crucifixion. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
2. Lost sayings gospel: in too includes the sayins of Jesus. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
3. signs gospel: it also talks about the life of Jesus which makes it Gospel
4. Didache: "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" qualifies to be gospel
5. Gospel of Thomas: recorded sayings of Jesus. so, it is a gospel.
6-7. Oxyrhynchus 840-1224 Gospels: they both talk about events Jesus lived in his life. so they too are gospels.
8-9-10. Secret Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Peter, Egerton Gospel: all three talks about either stories from Life of Jesus or his quotes or both. so, they are gospels. we already have 10 gospels.
11. Mara Bar Serapion: it too talks somehing about probably Jesus. cant say whether Gospel or not.
12. Gospel of Egyptians: talks about creation and displays jesus as the one who will save souls of people from the evil prison known as creation (e.g: world)
13. gospel of hebrews: contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings
14-15. gospel of ebionites, gospel of nazarenes: they too are seena s gospel.
16. Gospel of eve: I think it is not a gospel because I did not find info on what it says. do not know whether it qualifies or not.
17. Gospel of Philip: it gives different insight to the teachings of Jesus but from the point of view of Mary Magdalene.
18. Gospel of Mary: talks about Jesus' adulthood. it too is a gospel
19. infancy gospel: talks about the childhood of Jesus
20. Gospel of the savious: it talks about a saviour but does not say what his name is, I assume (and presumably) that is Jesus. if so, it too is a gospel.

But does it blend?

if I go on, I think it will be about 100. so, you got my point. there are many gospels. so, questions now:

if I am confronted by a christian and he says me"jesus is the best person of morale" and e.t.c why we cant talk about him using these gospels?

Like I said, the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Respect it or die by typhoid...

some of them given "bad sides of Jesus"?!

Sounds scandalous...

Christians will not accept it,

Say something we don't know. It's a god-damned miracle if eh accepted anything, including a hug.

I know. but just because they do not accept, consider it trustworthy does not mean they are false.

Ahh, but it does, because "them", you see.

it is like faschists talking and boasting about Adolf Hitler and his bad actions is talked they say "no, we do not trust on that source"

What bad actions?! Adolf Hitler was great man. I heard he was good at chess.

and, why should I believe in 4 gospels?

You can't have 420 without 4.

how can I know they are true?

"THEM"

even if that 4 is true, it does not make other gospels wrong/false.

They are wrongfalse because "them" say so.

they are canonised you may say but they are canonised long after Jesus which means canonisation does not give any credibility.

Canon give lots of credablilty, especially when pointed at your face...
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uncung
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4/27/2016 12:31:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
They say the other texts were written few centuries after jesus died. Thereby they only accept the earliest texts as we know now canonized texts they are: mark, mathew, paul and luke gospels.
Artur
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4/27/2016 12:43:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 12:31:21 PM, uncung wrote:
They say the other texts were written few centuries after jesus died. Thereby they only accept the earliest texts as we know now canonized texts they are: mark, mathew, paul and luke gospels.
the earliest one of that 4 is Mark's gospel which is written after 65.
some of the gospels mentioned above is earlier than Mark's.
and majority of the gospels mentioned above is written either as early as John's gospel or as late as John's gospel. some are earlier than John's gospel which means if the date gives credibility, then allmost all gospels mentioned above are as authentic as the 4 of new tesament.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
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4/27/2016 12:45:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 11:56:10 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 11:27:00 AM, Artur wrote:
there are many gospels, not just 4. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
when we are confronted with christians, they use 4 gospels to present their case for Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. may be they are true or not, it is not important. I want to ask: why we must and should take that gospels seriously and we must ignore the others?

Because the other haven't washed in three days, and they stink...no one likes those gospels...


how can we know these 4 are true and the rest is false?

Don't worry, rest assured...they are all false.

what makes that 4 true and others false?

Absolutely nothing other than wishful thinking and of course mild cannibalism.

a christian may say "because these 4 are canonical but the other 4 is not". but how can we know they way you chose the books is reliable and true?

Because the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Be warned, questioning "them" is like questioning God himself...*backs into shadows*...

ok, we will see other gospels:
now, what makes something gospel? the dictionary will give us the answer:
http://www.dictionary.com...
the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2.
the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

now, in order something to be gospel, it must contain "the teachings of Jesus [of Nazareth] and apostles."

And his claaaaaan.

in short, it either needs to be biography of Jesus of Nathareth or recordings of his philosophy. (or both)

Mixed with severe melodramaticism.

and it must include the story of Christ's life and teachings.

And his [SPOILER ALERT] death.

I think in the link aforementioned there are more than 100 writings, in order to know which of them qualify for being gospel, we need to look at them (informations are deduced from wikipedia) :

1. Passion Narrative: it talks about the part of the ministry of Jesus close to his crucifixion. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
2. Lost sayings gospel: in too includes the sayins of Jesus. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
3. signs gospel: it also talks about the life of Jesus which makes it Gospel
4. Didache: "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" qualifies to be gospel
5. Gospel of Thomas: recorded sayings of Jesus. so, it is a gospel.
6-7. Oxyrhynchus 840-1224 Gospels: they both talk about events Jesus lived in his life. so they too are gospels.
8-9-10. Secret Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Peter, Egerton Gospel: all three talks about either stories from Life of Jesus or his quotes or both. so, they are gospels. we already have 10 gospels.
11. Mara Bar Serapion: it too talks somehing about probably Jesus. cant say whether Gospel or not.
12. Gospel of Egyptians: talks about creation and displays jesus as the one who will save souls of people from the evil prison known as creation (e.g: world)
13. gospel of hebrews: contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings
14-15. gospel of ebionites, gospel of nazarenes: they too are seena s gospel.
16. Gospel of eve: I think it is not a gospel because I did not find info on what it says. do not know whether it qualifies or not.
17. Gospel of Philip: it gives different insight to the teachings of Jesus but from the point of view of Mary Magdalene.
18. Gospel of Mary: talks about Jesus' adulthood. it too is a gospel
19. infancy gospel: talks about the childhood of Jesus
20. Gospel of the savious: it talks about a saviour but does not say what his name is, I assume (and presumably) that is Jesus. if so, it too is a gospel.

But does it blend?

if I go on, I think it will be about 100. so, you got my point. there are many gospels. so, questions now:

if I am confronted by a christian and he says me"jesus is the best person of morale" and e.t.c why we cant talk about him using these gospels?

Like I said, the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Respect it or die by typhoid...

some of them given "bad sides of Jesus"?!

Sounds scandalous...

Christians will not accept it,

Say something we don't know. It's a god-damned miracle if eh accepted anything, including a hug.

I know. but just because they do not accept, consider it trustworthy does not mean they are false.

Ahh, but it does, because "them", you see.

it is like faschists talking and boasting about Adolf Hitler and his bad actions is talked they say "no, we do not trust on that source"

What bad actions?! Adolf Hitler was great man. I heard he was good at chess.

and, why should I believe in 4 gospels?

You can't have 420 without 4.

how can I know they are true?

"THEM"

even if that 4 is true, it does not make other gospels wrong/false.

They are wrongfalse because "them" say so.

they are canonised you may say but they are canonised long after Jesus which means canonisation does not give any credibility.

Canon give lots of credablilty, especially when pointed at your face...

lol :D
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
uncung
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4/27/2016 12:53:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 12:43:50 PM, Artur wrote:
At 4/27/2016 12:31:21 PM, uncung wrote:
They say the other texts were written few centuries after jesus died. Thereby they only accept the earliest texts as we know now canonized texts they are: mark, mathew, paul and luke gospels.
the earliest one of that 4 is Mark's gospel which is written after 65.
some of the gospels mentioned above is earlier than Mark's.
and majority of the gospels mentioned above is written either as early as John's gospel or as late as John's gospel. some are earlier than John's gospel which means if the date gives credibility, then allmost all gospels mentioned above are as authentic as the 4 of new tesament.

maybe they reject the other texts because those text contents contradict Christianity teaching.
Artur
Posts: 723
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4/27/2016 1:19:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 12:53:38 PM, uncung wrote:
At 4/27/2016 12:43:50 PM, Artur wrote:
At 4/27/2016 12:31:21 PM, uncung wrote:
They say the other texts were written few centuries after jesus died. Thereby they only accept the earliest texts as we know now canonized texts they are: mark, mathew, paul and luke gospels.
the earliest one of that 4 is Mark's gospel which is written after 65.
some of the gospels mentioned above is earlier than Mark's.
and majority of the gospels mentioned above is written either as early as John's gospel or as late as John's gospel. some are earlier than John's gospel which means if the date gives credibility, then allmost all gospels mentioned above are as authentic as the 4 of new tesament.

maybe they reject the other texts because those text contents contradict Christianity teaching.
may be. but regarding a discussion, a debate about the behaviour of Jesus of Nathareth with a non christian, "they contradict christianity teaching" arguement does not make those gospels ineligible
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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4/27/2016 2:04:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 12:45:09 PM, Artur wrote:
At 4/27/2016 11:56:10 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 11:27:00 AM, Artur wrote:
there are many gospels, not just 4. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
when we are confronted with christians, they use 4 gospels to present their case for Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. may be they are true or not, it is not important. I want to ask: why we must and should take that gospels seriously and we must ignore the others?

Because the other haven't washed in three days, and they stink...no one likes those gospels...


how can we know these 4 are true and the rest is false?

Don't worry, rest assured...they are all false.

what makes that 4 true and others false?

Absolutely nothing other than wishful thinking and of course mild cannibalism.

a christian may say "because these 4 are canonical but the other 4 is not". but how can we know they way you chose the books is reliable and true?

Because the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Be warned, questioning "them" is like questioning God himself...*backs into shadows*...

ok, we will see other gospels:
now, what makes something gospel? the dictionary will give us the answer:
http://www.dictionary.com...
the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2.
the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

now, in order something to be gospel, it must contain "the teachings of Jesus [of Nazareth] and apostles."

And his claaaaaan.

in short, it either needs to be biography of Jesus of Nathareth or recordings of his philosophy. (or both)

Mixed with severe melodramaticism.

and it must include the story of Christ's life and teachings.

And his [SPOILER ALERT] death.

I think in the link aforementioned there are more than 100 writings, in order to know which of them qualify for being gospel, we need to look at them (informations are deduced from wikipedia) :

1. Passion Narrative: it talks about the part of the ministry of Jesus close to his crucifixion. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
2. Lost sayings gospel: in too includes the sayins of Jesus. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
3. signs gospel: it also talks about the life of Jesus which makes it Gospel
4. Didache: "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" qualifies to be gospel
5. Gospel of Thomas: recorded sayings of Jesus. so, it is a gospel.
6-7. Oxyrhynchus 840-1224 Gospels: they both talk about events Jesus lived in his life. so they too are gospels.
8-9-10. Secret Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Peter, Egerton Gospel: all three talks about either stories from Life of Jesus or his quotes or both. so, they are gospels. we already have 10 gospels.
11. Mara Bar Serapion: it too talks somehing about probably Jesus. cant say whether Gospel or not.
12. Gospel of Egyptians: talks about creation and displays jesus as the one who will save souls of people from the evil prison known as creation (e.g: world)
13. gospel of hebrews: contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings
14-15. gospel of ebionites, gospel of nazarenes: they too are seena s gospel.
16. Gospel of eve: I think it is not a gospel because I did not find info on what it says. do not know whether it qualifies or not.
17. Gospel of Philip: it gives different insight to the teachings of Jesus but from the point of view of Mary Magdalene.
18. Gospel of Mary: talks about Jesus' adulthood. it too is a gospel
19. infancy gospel: talks about the childhood of Jesus
20. Gospel of the savious: it talks about a saviour but does not say what his name is, I assume (and presumably) that is Jesus. if so, it too is a gospel.

But does it blend?

if I go on, I think it will be about 100. so, you got my point. there are many gospels. so, questions now:

if I am confronted by a christian and he says me"jesus is the best person of morale" and e.t.c why we cant talk about him using these gospels?

Like I said, the ominous and not-at-all suspicious "them" say so. Respect it or die by typhoid...

some of them given "bad sides of Jesus"?!

Sounds scandalous...

Christians will not accept it,

Say something we don't know. It's a god-damned miracle if eh accepted anything, including a hug.

I know. but just because they do not accept, consider it trustworthy does not mean they are false.

Ahh, but it does, because "them", you see.

it is like faschists talking and boasting about Adolf Hitler and his bad actions is talked they say "no, we do not trust on that source"

What bad actions?! Adolf Hitler was great man. I heard he was good at chess.

and, why should I believe in 4 gospels?

You can't have 420 without 4.

how can I know they are true?

"THEM"

even if that 4 is true, it does not make other gospels wrong/false.

They are wrongfalse because "them" say so.

they are canonised you may say but they are canonised long after Jesus which means canonisation does not give any credibility.

Canon give lots of credablilty, especially when pointed at your face...

lol :D

he is awesome for real :D
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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4/27/2016 2:09:06 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 11:27:00 AM, Artur wrote:
there are many gospels, not just 4. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
when we are confronted with christians, they use 4 gospels to present their case for Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. may be they are true or not, it is not important. I want to ask: why we must and should take that gospels seriously and we must ignore the others? how can we know these 4 are true and the rest is false? what makes that 4 true and others false?
a christian may say "because these 4 are canonical but the other 4 is not". but how can we know they way you chose the books is reliable and true? ok, we will see other gospels:
now, what makes something gospel? the dictionary will give us the answer:
http://www.dictionary.com...
the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2.
the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

now, in order something to be gospel, it must contain "the teachings of Jesus [of Nazareth] and apostles." in short, it either needs to be biography of Jesus of Nathareth or recordings of his philosophy. (or both)
and it must include the story of Christ's life and teachings.

I think in the link aforementioned there are more than 100 writings, in order to know which of them qualify for being gospel, we need to look at them (informations are deduced from wikipedia) :

1. Passion Narrative: it talks about the part of the ministry of Jesus close to his crucifixion. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
2. Lost sayings gospel: in too includes the sayins of Jesus. so, it qualifies to be gospel.
3. signs gospel: it also talks about the life of Jesus which makes it Gospel
4. Didache: "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" qualifies to be gospel
5. Gospel of Thomas: recorded sayings of Jesus. so, it is a gospel.
6-7. Oxyrhynchus 840-1224 Gospels: they both talk about events Jesus lived in his life. so they too are gospels.
8-9-10. Secret Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Peter, Egerton Gospel: all three talks about either stories from Life of Jesus or his quotes or both. so, they are gospels. we already have 10 gospels.
11. Mara Bar Serapion: it too talks somehing about probably Jesus. cant say whether Gospel or not.
12. Gospel of Egyptians: talks about creation and displays jesus as the one who will save souls of people from the evil prison known as creation (e.g: world)
13. gospel of hebrews: contain traditions of Jesus' pre-existence, incarnation, baptism, and probable temptation, along with some of his sayings
14-15. gospel of ebionites, gospel of nazarenes: they too are seena s gospel.
16. Gospel of eve: I think it is not a gospel because I did not find info on what it says. do not know whether it qualifies or not.
17. Gospel of Philip: it gives different insight to the teachings of Jesus but from the point of view of Mary Magdalene.
18. Gospel of Mary: talks about Jesus' adulthood. it too is a gospel
19. infancy gospel: talks about the childhood of Jesus
20. Gospel of the savious: it talks about a saviour but does not say what his name is, I assume (and presumably) that is Jesus. if so, it too is a gospel.


if I go on, I think it will be about 100. so, you got my point. there are many gospels. so, questions now:

if I am confronted by a christian and he says me"jesus is the best person of morale" and e.t.c why we cant talk about him using these gospels? some of them given "bad sides of Jesus"?! Christians will not accept it, I know. but just because they do not accept, consider it trustworthy does not mean they are false. it is like faschists talking and boasting about Adolf Hitler and his bad actions is talked they say "no, we do not trust on that source"

and, why should I believe in 4 gospels? how can I know they are true? even if that 4 is true, it does not make other gospels wrong/false.

they are canonised you may say but they are canonised long after Jesus which means canonisation does not give any credibility.

they had many gospels as u said... the point u say in mind and if we look at the gospels we have today its all anonymous which written by numerous ppl i dont get it how ppl can believe without examining it. they changed it upside down and we know that from our christian scholars themselves... 99% just hypocrites on earth they love only what they born with.
Never fart near dog
SNP1
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4/27/2016 2:30:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 12:31:21 PM, uncung wrote:
They say the other texts were written few centuries after jesus died. Thereby they only accept the earliest texts as we know now canonized texts they are: mark, mathew, paul and luke gospels.

The obvious problem with this is that Mark shows clear use of the Sayings Gospel of Thomas (in an early form), Luke-Acts clearly used The Gospel of the Lord, and the infancy narrative from Luke and possibly Matthew seems to come from use of the Infancy Gospel of James.
Who knows, the Gospel of Nicodemus (in an earlier version) might have been written around the same time as John!
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SpiritandTruth
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4/27/2016 5:17:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
It is incredibly anti-christian to make an idol out of scripture.

You think they put 4 gospels in the book that contradict each other because the guys who did the canonizing were dumb?

No, they weren't dumb people.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,