Total Posts:122|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Was Jesus physical body raised?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 5:46:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

And yet every Gospel attests to an empty tomb. AKA a physical resurrection.
bamiller43
Posts: 201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 7:26:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

From the perspective of the Bible, that makes sense. But if that is true, then what happened to his body?
Lonely-Bird
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 7:55:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
So-called scripture is not evidence. It is writings written decades after the fact based upon faulty oral traditions and attempts to make various theological points.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 8:02:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 7:26:29 PM, bamiller43 wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

From the perspective of the Bible, that makes sense. But if that is true, then what happened to his body?

It was removed, simple as.

In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously.

Basically in similar way to the way Moses body was never found.

It had to be destroyed or people would have simply ended up worshipping it, like they do with so many so called relics.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 8:06:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 7:55:52 PM, Lonely-Bird wrote:
So-called scripture is not evidence. It is writings written decades after the fact based upon faulty oral traditions and attempts to make various theological points.

Nope.

They were inspired by God, it doesn't matter how long after the events they were written, Jehovah does not forget, nor does his son.

The only ones based on faulty oral traditions are the myths from other religions which are "Chinese Whispers" of the original stories as recorded in the Bible.

The Bible is 100% true and harmonious from Genesis to Revelation.

If you find anything that doesn't appear to be then you are misunderstanding something.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 8:10:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:46:24 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

And yet every Gospel attests to an empty tomb. AKA a physical resurrection.

An empty tomb does not mean a physical resurrection. It only means that Jesus' body was removed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Can you imagine what would have happened had it been left?

They would have ended up worshipping it like they do the so called relics.

For some reason people find it hard to worship without something they can actually see. Hence the crucifixes which are used in worship and are a form of idolatry.

True followers of Christ, and worshippers of his God do ot need to see anything, Christ and his father are in our hearts 24/7.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 8:11:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:42:36 PM, bulproof wrote:
You mean Michael.

I mean the Word, AKA Michael, AKA Jesus since his sojourn in the flesh on earth.

In other words I mean what scripture means. Simple as.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 8:21:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 8:10:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:46:24 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

And yet every Gospel attests to an empty tomb. AKA a physical resurrection.

An empty tomb does not mean a physical resurrection. It only means that Jesus' body was removed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why would it be removed? The price was paid, if it is a purely spiritual resurrection it is valueless.

Can you imagine what would have happened had it been left?

They would have ended up worshipping it like they do the so called relics.

Nope, a purely spiritual resurrection would show the valuelessness of the physical.

For some reason people find it hard to worship without something they can actually see. Hence the crucifixes which are used in worship and are a form of idolatry.

I hope you own no TV, pictures and surf with lynx because all of those would be idolatry too. In fact, I hope you've never even looked at a Bible while worshiping cause that would be idolatry too.

True followers of Christ, and worshippers of his God do ot need to see anything, Christ and his father are in our hearts 24/7.

None of which has to do with the topic.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 9:10:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 8:21:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:10:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

An empty tomb does not mean a physical resurrection. It only means that Jesus' body was removed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why would it be removed? The price was paid, if it is a purely spiritual resurrection it is valueless.

Can you imagine what would have happened had it been left?

They would have ended up worshipping it like they do the so called relics.

Nope, a purely spiritual resurrection would show the valuelessness of the physical.
In a sense it did but that wouldn't stop people wanting at least relics from the body. You only have to stop and think about the market in relics that are supposed to have come from the "True Cross" or the bodies of one or other of the Apostles.

Look how many churches have crucifixes in them.

Come to that look how many people wear them.

No, the body of Christ had to be removed, because, as you say it had no value left.


For some reason people find it hard to worship without something they can actually see. Hence the crucifixes which are used in worship and are a form of idolatry.

I hope you own no TV, pictures and surf with lynx because all of those would be idolatry too. In fact, I hope you've never even looked at a Bible while worshipping cause that would be idolatry too.

I neither worship them nor use them in my worship. That is a very different thing altogether. None of them represents anything remotely holy to me.

Looking at a Bible to read it is not an act of worship either, now you are just being absurd.


True followers of Christ, and worshippers of his God do not need to see anything, Christ and his father are in our hearts 24/7.

None of which has to do with the topic.

It has everything to do with this topic, since it is all part of the reason that Jesus body had to be removed.

A further reason being that had the Pharisees been able to point to the body of Christ they would have claimed he had not been resurrected.

As scripture shows they were happy to use anything, true or not, to counter Christ's teaching.

A bit like my opponents on here in fact, every one of whom is arguing against Christ's teachings and those of the Apostles.

They aren't arguing with me because I am nothing more than the messenger.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 9:35:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 9:10:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:21:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:10:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

An empty tomb does not mean a physical resurrection. It only means that Jesus' body was removed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why would it be removed? The price was paid, if it is a purely spiritual resurrection it is valueless.

Can you imagine what would have happened had it been left?

They would have ended up worshipping it like they do the so called relics.

Nope, a purely spiritual resurrection would show the valuelessness of the physical.
In a sense it did but that wouldn't stop people wanting at least relics from the body. You only have to stop and think about the market in relics that are supposed to have come from the "True Cross" or the bodies of one or other of the Apostles.

Look how many churches have crucifixes in them.

Each and every Catholic one! Most anglican too.

Come to that look how many people wear them.

Good on them!

No, the body of Christ had to be removed, because, as you say it had no value left.

No something that is worthless is left where it is.

For some reason people find it hard to worship without something they can actually see. Hence the crucifixes which are used in worship and are a form of idolatry.

I hope you own no TV, pictures and surf with lynx because all of those would be idolatry too. In fact, I hope you've never even looked at a Bible while worshipping cause that would be idolatry too.

I neither worship them nor use them in my worship. That is a very different thing altogether. None of them represents anything remotely holy to me.

Looking at a Bible to read it is not an act of worship either, now you are just being absurd.

Am I? Is not interiorization of the word of God a form of worship. Have you never been reading the bible only to stop and say a prayer while holding that bible?

What do you consider worship?

Was it wrong for the ancient Jews to worship in front of the 10 commandments - the word of God?

True followers of Christ, and worshippers of his God do not need to see anything, Christ and his father are in our hearts 24/7.

None of which has to do with the topic.

It has everything to do with this topic, since it is all part of the reason that Jesus body had to be removed.

A further reason being that had the Pharisees been able to point to the body of Christ they would have claimed he had not been resurrected.

But according to you he wasn't really resurrected. Merely that his spirit continued to exist. Resurrected means to bring to life again. Nothing you describe intones a resurrection or are you now asserting that the Archangel Michael's spirit ceased to be?

As scripture shows they were happy to use anything, true or not, to counter Christ's teaching.

A bit like my opponents on here in fact, every one of whom is arguing against Christ's teachings and those of the Apostles.

What is your authority to say you have the correct interpretation of the Bible? Why is the Bible your authority?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 10:59:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

For JWs they are one and the same.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 11:00:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 10:59:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

For JWs they are one and the same.

yes I know, that's the problem.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/28/2016 11:02:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 11:00:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:59:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

For JWs they are one and the same.

yes I know, that's the problem.

Sorry about that, carry on...
Lonely-Bird
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 1:38:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 8:06:14 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/28/2016 7:55:52 PM, Lonely-Bird wrote:
So-called scripture is not evidence. It is writings written decades after the fact based upon faulty oral traditions and attempts to make various theological points.

Nope.

They were inspired by God, it doesn't matter how long after the events they were written, Jehovah does not forget, nor does his son.

The only ones based on faulty oral traditions are the myths from other religions which are "Chinese Whispers" of the original stories as recorded in the Bible.

The Bible is 100% true and harmonious from Genesis to Revelation.

If you find anything that doesn't appear to be then you are misunderstanding something.
Failure again. Man wrote the gospels to make theological points. We have the Christ in mark crying out in agony "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" And by John he is carrying on a pleasant conversation about would should watch over his mother.

As regards oral traditions they have been proven to not be accurate when passed down.

As regards stories in the bible a few pop up.

Caesar Agustus never ordered a census or tax of the whole world. Furthermore the Romans were not idiots had they done such a census they would have simply counted people. This device was used in a poor attempt to make the Christ be born in Bethlehem. Of course John and Mark mention nothing about a birth narrative which resulted in clamor over the issue of when the Christ was "begotten", when he was born or when the spirit descended upon him. And we have John borrowing from Genesis to make a theological point that the Christ and God are the same when Mark has the Christ asking "why do you call me good? Only God is good."

We also have Paul or the author attributed to Paul saying women should keep silent when the OT says women will prophesy. And the Christ got the wrong high priest in the story of David and his men eating the show bread. And we have disciples claiming they found the messiah followed by those same disciples not knowing who the Christ is.

And just for kicks a Roman governor known to be a cruel ruler running back and forth talking to the Christ and then the crowd. Nope, didn't happen. Pilate would not have been concerned about Jewish ritual or sensibilities. And he was shown to not have care by his actions outside of so-called scripture. He did not create a tradition of releasing one criminal as he did not care. That tradition arises from within the OT in the form of the scapegoat. The writer(s) of the gospels wrote for particular audiences and wrote to emphasize particular theological points. Nothing more, nothing less.

On a side note there is no evidence the Jews were enslaved in Egypt either.

The OT and NT like the q'uran were written by man to try and explain, rationalize and justify their actions. They served political purposes by vesting a ruling class and a priest class with deity approved authority over the people. And they borrowed freely from other sources such as Zoroastrianism.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 3:23:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 8:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously.

Acts 13:37 disagrees! -

On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption. NW pretend translation

Much better luck next times!
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 3:40:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

So what? His physical, mortal body had been changed into a glorious, incorruptible spiritual body.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

So what? His physical, mortal body had been changed into a glorious, incorruptible spiritual body.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

Your entire post is pure hogwash, as usual. The physical body of Jesus was changed into a spiritual body, the properties of which aren't worth speculating over.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:08:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 3:40:34 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

So what? His physical, mortal body had been changed into a glorious, incorruptible spiritual body.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

So what? His physical, mortal body had been changed into a glorious, incorruptible spiritual body.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

Your entire post is pure hogwash, as usual. The physical body of Jesus was changed into a spiritual body, the properties of which aren't worth speculating over.

Only in the view of such as you who fail dismally to understand what scripture says.

It remains pure scriptural truth.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:10:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 3:23:37 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously.

Acts 13:37 disagrees! -

On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption. NW pretend translation

Much better luck next times!

Acts 13:37
37 On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption.

Where does that mention physical bodies?

Simple, it doesn't, it isn't talking about physical bodies. It is talking abut what makes us who and what we are, which has only a tenuous connection to our physical bodies.

Epic fail on your part as always.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:13:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 1:38:18 AM, Lonely-Bird wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:06:14 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/28/2016 7:55:52 PM, Lonely-Bird wrote:
So-called scripture is not evidence. It is writings written decades after the fact based upon faulty oral traditions and attempts to make various theological points.

Nope.

They were inspired by God, it doesn't matter how long after the events they were written, Jehovah does not forget, nor does his son.

The only ones based on faulty oral traditions are the myths from other religions which are "Chinese Whispers" of the original stories as recorded in the Bible.

The Bible is 100% true and harmonious from Genesis to Revelation.

If you find anything that doesn't appear to be then you are misunderstanding something.
Failure again. Man wrote the gospels to make theological points. We have the Christ in mark crying out in agony "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" And by John he is carrying on a pleasant conversation about would should watch over his mother.

You prove nothing there except that not all of the watchers saw and heard exactly the same things.

To understand the Gospels you have to take all 4 accounts together.

There is no point in carrying on the argument with one who is so ignorant of the subject they are criticising and determined to remain that way.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:17:01 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

No I mean the Archangel Michael, also known as the Word who came to earth to become incarnate in the flesh of Jesus, precisely as scripture describes at John 1:14 and John 3:16 et al.

It was Jehovah's only begotten son who was sent to earth. The flesh that was Jesus originated on earth, was conceived on earth by holy spirit, and died on earth.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:21:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 11:00:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:59:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

For JWs they are one and the same.

yes I know, that's the problem.

However it is only a problem for Apostates such as yourself and those who have fallen for Satan's confidence trick of the Trinity, and variations thereof.

To Jehvoah and to Christ what scripture teaches is truth, and is what I teach.

It would help if you spent less time using Bibles which can easily have been proved to have been dishonestly translated to fit.

How you can trust a translation that lies, even by omission, I do not know.

Any translation which replaces the tetragrammaton with "LORD" is lying to you.

It could not be more simple than that.

They couldn't even be honest enough to copy across one of the transliterations, for instance YHWH or JHVH, they had to lie about it to fit their false belief.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:23:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 10:59:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 10:49:00 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 4/28/2016 5:38:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Well let us consider the evidence.

Luke 24:30, 31
30 And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

These were disciples of Jesus. He met them on the road to Emmaus, and walked with them for some distance discussing the events in Jerusalem. Yet they failed to recognise him.

They pressed him into sharing a meal with them, and whilst he was reclining at table with them he broke bread. Suddenly they recognised his mannerism when doing so and realised who they had walked and talked with all that way.

The moment they recognised him he "disappeared from them". Other translations say he "vanished from their sight".

This was not the sort of action Jesus had ever done in his physical body, because a physical body cannot do that.

In fact the only bodies that have ever been able to do that are materialised bodies of Angels. This, along with other evidence shows that it was not Jesus' physical body that was resurrected, but was in fact a body materialised by him on his return to hsi previous spirit existence.

Hence on his resurrection he was able to visit the spirits in prison as Peter says at 1 Peter 3:18, 19
18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison.

In what state?

His original spirit state from before he became incarnate ion the body of Jesus.

He could not have visited them otherwise.

Luke 24:36, 37
36 While they were speaking of these things, he himself stood in their midst and said to them: "May you have peace." 37 But because they were terrified and frightened, they imagined that they were seeing a spirit.

They thought they were seeing a spirit, other translations say "ghost".

Why were they so frightened?

Why did they think that?

because Christ had simply materialised his body in the middle of the crowd in a locked room. That's why.

Wouldn't you be a little shocked by that?

John 20:14
14 After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

Mary, who knew Jesus extremely well and had been his disciple for much of his ministry, entertained him in her own home.

No, it was not Jesus physical body that was raised.

In fact it could not have been.

Jesus had given up his body at his sacrificial death and as such it was not available to him anyway.

When you have paid the price for something you cannot then take that price back again.

That would be cheating, and Jehovah does not cheat, neither does his son.

hang on do you mean Jesus or do you mean the angel michael??

For JWs they are one and the same.

Just as they are for Jehovah and Christ, except you have demoted Michael from being the Archangel he is, Jehovah's only begotten son, to one of the Angels he helped create.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 10:53:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/28/2016 9:35:09 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 9:10:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:21:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:10:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

An empty tomb does not mean a physical resurrection. It only means that Jesus' body was removed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why would it be removed? The price was paid, if it is a purely spiritual resurrection it is valueless.

Can you imagine what would have happened had it been left?

They would have ended up worshipping it like they do the so called relics.

Nope, a purely spiritual resurrection would show the valuelessness of the physical.
In a sense it did but that wouldn't stop people wanting at least relics from the body. You only have to stop and think about the market in relics that are supposed to have come from the "True Cross" or the bodies of one or other of the Apostles.

Look how many churches have crucifixes in them.

Each and every Catholic one! Most anglican too.

My point precisely, they are idolaters.

They need a idol as a focus for their worship.


Come to that look how many people wear them.

Good on them!

Jehovah and Christ don't think so, they dislike idolatry.

Remember the Golden Calf? That was made to represent Jehovah but he still hated it.


No, the body of Christ had to be removed, because, as you say it had no value left.

No something that is worthless is left where it is.

Not if people are likely to misuse it for religious purposes.




For some reason people find it hard to worship without something they can actually see. Hence the crucifixes which are used in worship and are a form of idolatry.

I hope you own no TV, pictures and surf with lynx because all of those would be idolatry too. In fact, I hope you've never even looked at a Bible while worshipping cause that would be idolatry too.

I neither worship them nor use them in my worship. That is a very different thing altogether. None of them represents anything remotely holy to me.



Looking at a Bible to read it is not an act of worship either, now you are just being absurd.

Am I? Is not interiorization of the word of God a form of worship. Have you never been reading the bible only to stop and say a prayer while holding that bible?

No, I always put it down to pray.


What do you consider worship?

Exactly what scripture describes as worship.

Doing the will of God. Matthew 7:21-23.

Obedience to his principles and laws, to death if need be. (Matthew 10:38-39; 10:22; 24:13.

Adherence to truth and not tradition Matthew 4:23-24.

Plus, as Jesus quoted when asked the most important law of all:

Deuteronomy 6:5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

and the emboldened part of:

Leviticus 19:18
18 ""You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah

And especially, as part of the above:

Matthew 5:43-47
43 "You heard that it was said: "You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy." 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,+ since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?

Nothing more, nothing less.

He doesn't ask us to parade around in garb which is almost a straight copy of the outfits worn by priests to Dagon.

He doesn't ask us to wear special clothing at all, in fact he condemns it.


Was it wrong for the ancient Jews to worship in front of the 10 commandments - the word of God?

There were no "Ancient Jews". Judah did not exists as a separate nation until after Israel was abandoned for it's unfaithfulness. Judah was kept intact merely to protect the line to the Messiah until it was time for him to arrive.

Judaism was always Apostate, that is why Jesus called people out of it who wished to return to faithful service.

However whilst they did as they were commanded, rare as that turned out to be, they were not wrong.

Israel is not a good example of faithfulness to hold up or they would not have been abandoned as a nation.


True followers of Christ, and worshippers of his God do not need to see anything, Christ and his father are in our hearts 24/7.

None of which has to do with the topic.

It has everything to do with this topic, since it is all part of the reason that Jesus body had to be removed.

A further reason being that had the Pharisees been able to point to the body of Christ they would have claimed he had not been resurrected.

But according to you he wasn't really resurrected. Merely that his spirit continued to exist. Resurrected means to bring to life again. Nothing you describe intones a resurrection or are you now asserting that the Archangel Michael's spirit ceased to be?

According to scripture, not to me, the one who came to the earth to become incarnate in his flesh was resurrected. That was all that was needed.

The flesh was removed to prevent it being worshipped, as was the case with Moses.


As scripture shows they were happy to use anything, true or not, to counter Christ's teaching.

A bit like my opponents on here in fact, every one of whom is arguing against Christ's teachings and those of the Apostles.

What is your authority to say you have the correct interpretation of the Bible? Why is the Bible your authority?

My authority is the scriptures themselves, along with holy spirit.

The Bible is my authority because it is the word of God, simple as, there is no other authority.

Everything I teach can be verified from any translation of the Bible, even the dishonest ones, because Jehovah has protected his word sufficiently for the truth to be found by those who value it enough to dig for it.

The proof of that is that I am able to discern the Bible for what it is, in all it's purposes, and that it is truly not a "book of two halves" but one book from Genesis to Revelation, telling one story of one God from beginning to end.

It is simply described thus, in Academic terms:

1: The introduction laying out the origins and purpose of Jehovah's creation, as well as what went wrong and what was proposed to correct it. Genesis chapters 1-3.

2: The convolutions describing the inevitable success of Jehovah's plan to use his only begotten son to bring humanity and the earth back to what was originally intended, and the Joy in heaven and on earth at is success. Revelation 20-22.

3: The main story, detailing the gradual development of the plan,through it's various stages, from inception to eventual success.

The other major purpose of the Bible is to serve as Jehovah's evidence against Satan.

Thirdly it is to enable us to get to know Jehovah and learn his ways as well as the wisdom of them.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 11:56:36 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 3:23:37 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously.

Acts 13:37 disagrees! -

On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption. NW pretend translation

Much better luck next times!

Acts 13:37
37 On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption.

At 4/29/2016 10:10:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Where does that mention physical bodies?
You idiot!

It was YOU that claimed its physical body corrupted instantaneously! -

You foolishly wrote - " In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously. "

Now your words have been exposed as spurious, you want to pretend you didn't say what you did!

Epic fail on your part as always.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 12:10:51 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 10:17:01 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

No I mean the Archangel Michael, also known as the Word who came to earth to become incarnate in the flesh of Jesus, precisely as scripture describes at John 1:14 and John 3:16 et al.

The Botchtower's God disagrees with you & them -

*** "Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4

At 4/29/2016 10:17:01 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It was Jehovah's only begotten son who was sent to earth. The flesh that was Jesus originated on earth, was conceived on earth by holy spirit, and died on earth.

Now you contradict yourself on this matter also!

Acts 13:37 as I accurately pointed out before states jebus' body saw NO corruption!

Here again you deny that as you also shamefully & Sinfully deny the testimony of the God of the Botchtower! (See above ***)

Your epic fail as usual!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2016 12:55:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/29/2016 11:56:36 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/29/2016 3:23:37 AM, Composer wrote:
At 4/28/2016 8:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously.

Acts 13:37 disagrees! -

On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption. NW pretend translation

Much better luck next times!

Acts 13:37
37 On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption.

At 4/29/2016 10:10:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Where does that mention physical bodies?
You idiot!

It was YOU that claimed its physical body corrupted instantaneously! -

I have never claimed it corrupted instantaneously.

In the cases off Moses and Jesus it was simply destroyed to prevent people from worshipping it.


You foolishly wrote - " In time our bodies all disintegrate into their component molecules, Jesus body simply did so instantaneously. "

Yes, that is because it was destroyed, our bodies do so by gradual disintegration, corruption. Jesus' body did not.

Now your words have been exposed as spurious, you want to pretend you didn't say what you did!

Epic fail on your part as always.

Sorry it is you who has failed yet again simply because you don't seem able to understand plain English, but then maybe you are American which would exlpain that, since you speak American English, not English English.