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Proof God (Yahweh) Is Immoral

RyanV
Posts: 1
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5/1/2016 3:08:27 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
First, I'd like to tell you a story.

"A boss makes a bet with a psychopath, to test an exemplary employee's loyalty.

Giving in to the temptation by the psychopath, the boss stops the security system in place to protect his employee's property and friends and lets the psychopath destroy the employee's life. The psychopath burns down the employee's tower and slaughters his family.

If only the security system was on, none of this would have happened. Despite this, the employee does not blame the boss.

Still unconvinced, the boss allows the psychopath to test the employee further. The boss denies heath care to Bob. The psychopath poisons his food, making him very sick.

Yet, the employee still does not blame the boss.

Finally, when the employee asks the boss why he let the nightmare happen to him. The boss answers, "Who are you to tell me what to do? Did you start the company? Did you help everyone I've helped? Were you born before I was? You should not question me."

The employee asked the forgiveness of the boss, for questioning him."

Lets look at this story from objective morality. I think we can all agree on the "Golden Rule" is the basic back bone of all morality.

Golden Rule

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.
3. What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself.

The Bible obviously agrees with the Golden Rule also.

Luke 6:31 "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now here is the question.

Is this boss moral or immoral? If as I think we can all agree, he is immoral. He made a bet with a psychopath, allowed the psychopath to kill others, and once asked for an answer spins it where the victim is blamed for questioning him.

But this story is from the Book of Job. Replace: Boss with God, psychopath with Devil, and employee with Job.

Agree with God? Is God just in this situation? If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't mind your boss making the same test.

If you disagree with God and don't think he was just in this then the morality of God (Yahweh) is something, at the very least, we shouldn't be following. Let alone get our morality from it.

Because that story isn't moral. It's tragedy.
oo00
Posts: 134
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5/1/2016 3:10:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 3:08:27 AM, RyanV wrote:
First, I'd like to tell you a story.

"A boss makes a bet with a psychopath, to test an exemplary employee's loyalty.

Giving in to the temptation by the psychopath, the boss stops the security system in place to protect his employee's property and friends and lets the psychopath destroy the employee's life. The psychopath burns down the employee's tower and slaughters his family.

If only the security system was on, none of this would have happened. Despite this, the employee does not blame the boss.

Still unconvinced, the boss allows the psychopath to test the employee further. The boss denies heath care to Bob. The psychopath poisons his food, making him very sick.

Yet, the employee still does not blame the boss.

Finally, when the employee asks the boss why he let the nightmare happen to him. The boss answers, "Who are you to tell me what to do? Did you start the company? Did you help everyone I've helped? Were you born before I was? You should not question me."

The employee asked the forgiveness of the boss, for questioning him."

Lets look at this story from objective morality. I think we can all agree on the "Golden Rule" is the basic back bone of all morality.

Golden Rule

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.
3. What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself.

The Bible obviously agrees with the Golden Rule also.

Luke 6:31 "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now here is the question.

Is this boss moral or immoral? If as I think we can all agree, he is immoral. He made a bet with a psychopath, allowed the psychopath to kill others, and once asked for an answer spins it where the victim is blamed for questioning him.

But this story is from the Book of Job. Replace: Boss with God, psychopath with Devil, and employee with Job.

Agree with God? Is God just in this situation? If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't mind your boss making the same test.

If you disagree with God and don't think he was just in this then the morality of God (Yahweh) is something, at the very least, we shouldn't be following. Let alone get our morality from it.

Because that story isn't moral. It's tragedy. : :

Adam and Eve didn't blame Me, either. They blamed each other for what I created.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/1/2016 3:15:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 3:08:27 AM, RyanV wrote:
First, I'd like to tell you a story.

"A boss makes a bet with a psychopath, to test an exemplary employee's loyalty.

Giving in to the temptation by the psychopath, the boss stops the security system in place to protect his employee's property and friends and lets the psychopath destroy the employee's life. The psychopath burns down the employee's tower and slaughters his family.

If only the security system was on, none of this would have happened. Despite this, the employee does not blame the boss.

Still unconvinced, the boss allows the psychopath to test the employee further. The boss denies heath care to Bob. The psychopath poisons his food, making him very sick.

Yet, the employee still does not blame the boss.

Finally, when the employee asks the boss why he let the nightmare happen to him. The boss answers, "Who are you to tell me what to do? Did you start the company? Did you help everyone I've helped? Were you born before I was? You should not question me."

The employee asked the forgiveness of the boss, for questioning him."

Lets look at this story from objective morality. I think we can all agree on the "Golden Rule" is the basic back bone of all morality.

Golden Rule

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.
3. What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself.

The Bible obviously agrees with the Golden Rule also.

Luke 6:31 "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now here is the question.

Is this boss moral or immoral? If as I think we can all agree, he is immoral. He made a bet with a psychopath, allowed the psychopath to kill others, and once asked for an answer spins it where the victim is blamed for questioning him.

But this story is from the Book of Job. Replace: Boss with God, psychopath with Devil, and employee with Job.

Agree with God? Is God just in this situation? If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't mind your boss making the same test.

If you disagree with God and don't think he was just in this then the morality of God (Yahweh) is something, at the very least, we shouldn't be following. Let alone get our morality from it.

Because that story isn't moral. It's tragedy.

Big difference. The "boss" doesn't know the final outcome.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/1/2016 3:18:23 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Omniscient morality is different than nonomniscient morality. Omniscient morality must base actions on final known outcomes. Nonomniscient morality is based on limited information. You are comparing apples to hamsters.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
oo00
Posts: 134
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5/1/2016 3:18:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 3:15:53 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/1/2016 3:08:27 AM, RyanV wrote:
First, I'd like to tell you a story.

"A boss makes a bet with a psychopath, to test an exemplary employee's loyalty.

Giving in to the temptation by the psychopath, the boss stops the security system in place to protect his employee's property and friends and lets the psychopath destroy the employee's life. The psychopath burns down the employee's tower and slaughters his family.

If only the security system was on, none of this would have happened. Despite this, the employee does not blame the boss.

Still unconvinced, the boss allows the psychopath to test the employee further. The boss denies heath care to Bob. The psychopath poisons his food, making him very sick.

Yet, the employee still does not blame the boss.

Finally, when the employee asks the boss why he let the nightmare happen to him. The boss answers, "Who are you to tell me what to do? Did you start the company? Did you help everyone I've helped? Were you born before I was? You should not question me."

The employee asked the forgiveness of the boss, for questioning him."

Lets look at this story from objective morality. I think we can all agree on the "Golden Rule" is the basic back bone of all morality.

Golden Rule

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.
3. What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself.

The Bible obviously agrees with the Golden Rule also.

Luke 6:31 "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now here is the question.

Is this boss moral or immoral? If as I think we can all agree, he is immoral. He made a bet with a psychopath, allowed the psychopath to kill others, and once asked for an answer spins it where the victim is blamed for questioning him.

But this story is from the Book of Job. Replace: Boss with God, psychopath with Devil, and employee with Job.

Agree with God? Is God just in this situation? If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't mind your boss making the same test.

If you disagree with God and don't think he was just in this then the morality of God (Yahweh) is something, at the very least, we shouldn't be following. Let alone get our morality from it.

Because that story isn't moral. It's tragedy.

Big difference. The "boss" doesn't know the final outcome. : :

I know what's going to happen to your body soon and the bodies of all My people.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/1/2016 7:22:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 3:15:53 AM, brontoraptor wrote:

Big difference. The "boss" doesn't know the final outcome.

If God knows the final outcome then he doesn't need the test, does he? He displays his immoral nature by causing unnecessary suffering to Job when the outcome is already certain. Bad God.
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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5/3/2016 10:26:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/1/2016 3:08:27 AM, RyanV wrote:
First, I'd like to tell you a story.

"A boss makes a bet with a psychopath, to test an exemplary employee's loyalty.

Giving in to the temptation by the psychopath, the boss stops the security system in place to protect his employee's property and friends and lets the psychopath destroy the employee's life. The psychopath burns down the employee's tower and slaughters his family.

If only the security system was on, none of this would have happened. Despite this, the employee does not blame the boss.

Still unconvinced, the boss allows the psychopath to test the employee further. The boss denies heath care to Bob. The psychopath poisons his food, making him very sick.

Yet, the employee still does not blame the boss.

Finally, when the employee asks the boss why he let the nightmare happen to him. The boss answers, "Who are you to tell me what to do? Did you start the company? Did you help everyone I've helped? Were you born before I was? You should not question me."

The employee asked the forgiveness of the boss, for questioning him."

Lets look at this story from objective morality. I think we can all agree on the "Golden Rule" is the basic back bone of all morality.

So I take it you think whatever "we all agree on" is the "basic back bone" of all morality? If you believe this bit of stupidity, that is fine. You are free to believe any nonsense you like, but why pretend that all others believe the same thing?

Because your illogical argument is dead without that pretense.

Golden Rule

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.
3. What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself.

The Bible obviously agrees with the Golden Rule also.

For Humans. My daughter must be indoors by 10 pm. Do you think that rule applies to me also?

Luke 6:31 "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now here is the question.

Is this boss moral or immoral?

Depends on whose "moral code" you use.

If as I think we can all agree, he is immoral.

If we use your personal moral code perhaps. But what if we used an truly objective moral code? What if we did not employ stupidity in our judgement? I think we'd see that God is not immoral at all.

He made a bet with a psychopath, allowed the psychopath to kill others, and once asked for an answer spins it where the victim is blamed for questioning him.

You are assuming your personal moral code correct, and then applying it to show it correct. Logicians call this circular thinking. It's very convincing to the simple minded.

But this story is from the Book of Job. Replace: Boss with God, psychopath with Devil, and employee with Job.

God is not our Boss. He does not employ us. We do not deserve wages from Him. He is not under the restrictions of a Human boss. Your analogy is deceptive.

Agree with God?

Of course.

Is God just in this situation?

Without a doubt.

If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't mind your boss making the same test.

There is no need for stupidity. My boss is not God, and does not have the authority God has.

If you disagree with God and don't think he was just in this then the morality of God (Yahweh) is something, at the very least, we shouldn't be following.

This comment says nothing. If you disagree, of course you wouldn't follow. But again it shows your confusion about what morality is. You think people should follow (be moral) what the like. You think morality is what we all agree on (like). Of course you condemn God, God is sovereign, and THAT is the ultimate affront to people who enshrine their desires as morality.

Let alone get our morality from it.

Of course. You propose we get our morality from what we all "agree on".

Because that story isn't moral. It's tragedy.

Stories cannot be moral or immoral. Actions are.

In the old days, I would have asked you to explain all the silly assumptions you take for granted in your analogy. But experience has taught me that people making this claim are never interested in defending it. They begin with a "we all agree" and then proceed as if that is a fact.

God is not a boss who gets "appointed" to the position. He is not beholden to the shareholders. God is not a president who gets "elected" to the position. He is not beholden to the electorate.

He is the craw in the throat if every two-bit moron who has crowned himself God, attempting to make his personal morality authoritative over all others.

I dig that about Him.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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5/3/2016 10:37:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'm still waiting for Christians to answer whether torturing and killing new born babies is objectively moral?

One just has to chuckle every time they attempt to pontificate on morality.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/3/2016 1:31:01 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 10:37:42 AM, Athomos wrote:
I'm still waiting for Christians to answer whether torturing and killing new born babies is objectively moral?

One just has to chuckle every time they attempt to pontificate on morality.

I know right. It's such much more moral if the torture and killing happens before the baby breathes any air.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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5/3/2016 1:51:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:31:01 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/3/2016 10:37:42 AM, Athomos wrote:
I'm still waiting for Christians to answer whether torturing and killing new born babies is objectively moral?

One just has to chuckle every time they attempt to pontificate on morality.

I know right. It's such much more moral if the torture and killing happens before the baby breathes any air.

Oh, but it suddenly becomes moral if the baby already breaths air and God is the one doing the torturing.

Right.