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The myth of God's omniscience

Chloe8
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5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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5/2/2016 10:31:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Where in the bible does it say god is omniscient?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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5/2/2016 10:51:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:31:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Where in the bible does it say god is omniscient?

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

If God is not omniscient his understanding has limits which contradicts this verse.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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5/2/2016 11:10:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:51:36 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:31:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Where in the bible does it say god is omniscient?

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

If God is not omniscient his understanding has limits which contradicts this verse.
Ok thanks.
uncung
Posts: 3,455
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5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.
God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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5/3/2016 12:06:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:51:36 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:31:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Where in the bible does it say god is omniscient?

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

If God is not omniscient his understanding has limits which contradicts this verse.

God knows exactly what he is doing even if we don't.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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5/3/2016 12:16:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:06:17 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:51:36 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:31:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Where in the bible does it say god is omniscient?

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

If God is not omniscient his understanding has limits which contradicts this verse.

God knows exactly what he is doing even if we don't.

So did God know that Satan would rebel when he created him? Did he already know that this angel would trick a human into eating from the tree of life? Does he know the course our lives will take before we are even born?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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5/3/2016 12:18:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM, uncung wrote:
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.
God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.

So God knows which destiny Satan will eventually choose?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/3/2016 2:06:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Very true. The whole concept of omni-anything is ridiculous since it involves actual infinities and actual infinities cannot be traversed.

There is a myth about God's omnipotence too. He is supposed to be all powerful and yet he can't defeat Satan.
uncung
Posts: 3,455
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5/3/2016 2:31:52 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:18:31 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM, uncung wrote:
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.
God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.

So God knows which destiny Satan will eventually choose?

Yes He does, moreover He pre-destined it as well.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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5/3/2016 2:40:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM, uncung wrote:
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.

It looks like you don't know the meaning of the word, "fact" would you like a definition or can you muster one on your own?

God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,455
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5/3/2016 2:48:23 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 2:40:59 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM, uncung wrote:
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.

It looks like you don't know the meaning of the word, "fact" would you like a definition or can you muster one on your own?

God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.

fact is something that truly exists or happens, something that has actual existence. (dictionary).
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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5/3/2016 5:34:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
God's omniscience and omnipotence do not contradict the fact that Satan runs around doing that thing.

Everything is done according to the will of God, and nothing can override that.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/3/2016 6:11:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Temporal relativity.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/3/2016 6:11:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Temporal relativity.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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5/3/2016 6:39:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel?
A lesson that created a perfect default system to eternal wisdom which needed the most important awareness taught via creation. You cannot think yourself better than God but God does not object to you thinking yourself equal to God....in as much as nature of thought or the interpretation of said thought.
Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind?
As above, the default and perfect plan of the lesson I addressed.
These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation.
Exactly, because as stated above this is the only logical road to acquiring the spiritual fortitude to deny the idea of arrogance, or superiority. Its simple, existence of numerous seemingly impractical realities is necessary for the totality of existence itself.
Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'?
You're simply using a finite understanding of what you think entails the totality of choice and when that ceases to exist.
Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided?
Once again you are arguing from an appeal to popular belief. Simply because Christians are typically limited to something doesn't mean that that limitation doesn't serve a purpose. It is ignorant to assert that simply being a Christian involves authority to speak in regards to all aspects of the Christian God.
What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.
This is simply a ridiculous assertion that has absolutely no value whatsoever. False premise.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all?
Good point and you are correct. But again you are !limiting the idea in the concept to a specific existence as only having the ability to choose. That's a false premise. As it logically follows a soul has intelligence and the ability to learn and choose.
That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made!
This has no relevance to the learning process. The illusion of choice can just be as educational as there being the reality that you choose.
Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.
Once again this is consistent with your reasoning but based on a false premise. That is that Jesus or that which represents Jesus did not exist in another form prior to the birth, crucifixion, etc.
God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!
Non sequitur. This merely justifies saying that many Christians are wrong as to what they assert the bible means.
You're assumption as to what free will is makes this seem reasonable to you but it's a necessity to understand free will via the duality of existence as stated in the concept you are attempting to invalidate. Hence, free will must explain the journey of the (body and soul) and also (soul only) because the concept includes both as a reality of existence.
Btw. I explain the concept, not the reality of whether or not the God in the concept exists. That would merely be one aspect of the concept as a given to engage in the actual ideas within the concept.
Your post has good and obvious points but how you conclude what you do in many cases is based on false premises. In my opinion.
You are making a logical argument to imply it doesn't matter what someone does they are or are not going to heaven. The problem with this reasoning is you are asserting that "what matters" isn't somehow, at least in different levels, innate in all.
Chloe8
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5/3/2016 7:43:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 2:06:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Very true. The whole concept of omni-anything is ridiculous since it involves actual infinities and actual infinities cannot be traversed.

There is a myth about God's omnipotence too. He is supposed to be all powerful and yet he can't defeat Satan.

Yes they use the same lame excuses of "justice" and "free will" for God's failure to destroy Satan. What utter nonsense.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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5/3/2016 7:46:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 2:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:18:31 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:01:26 AM, uncung wrote:
None able to explain the overlapping between the omniscience of God, the predestination, and free will. However they are really the true facts.
God knows what the Lucifer will do before he came into exist in this world. meanwhile the Lucifer also has a free will to change his habit.

So God knows which destiny Satan will eventually choose?

Yes He does, moreover He pre-destined it as well.

It makes the bible look rather silly. if God knew Adam was going to eat from the tree of life before creating him it shows God planned a fallen world all along. God's creation was imperfect. Such a clever god would not make mistakes. Especially not intentional mistakes.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
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5/3/2016 7:49:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 5:34:39 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
God's omniscience and omnipotence do not contradict the fact that Satan runs around doing that thing.

Everything is done according to the will of God, and nothing can override that.

So God planned and desired the fall of man? That's not what I normally hear Christians saying! I've got you guys in a corner here!
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
skipsaweirdo
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5/3/2016 8:22:39 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 7:49:14 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 5:34:39 AM, SpiritandTruth wrote:
God's omniscience and omnipotence do not contradict the fact that Satan runs around doing that thing.

Everything is done according to the will of God, and nothing can override that.

So God planned and desired the fall of man? That's not what I normally hear Christians saying! I've got you guys in a corner here!
Yes, and I'm not a Christian btw. So like my post said if you read it. Appealing to Christians to argue the Christian God is an appeal to authority.. You simply are claiming Christians must be the authority on everything in the Christians Gods plans. Being Christian doesn't necessarily mean they properly interpret or offer up proper explanation of that which their God has said.
skipsaweirdo
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5/3/2016 8:32:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 2:06:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Very true. The whole concept of omni-anything is ridiculous since it involves actual infinities and actual infinities cannot be traversed.
nice knowledge claim, and a red herring.....actual infinities applies to numerical systems.this has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.
There is a myth about God's omnipotence too. He is supposed to be all powerful and yet he can't defeat Satan.
Lmao, is the fight ongoing? If there a "defeat" never coming? This is simply illogical nonsense.
dee-em
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5/3/2016 11:37:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 8:32:48 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/3/2016 2:06:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:

According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

Very true. The whole concept of omni-anything is ridiculous since it involves actual infinities and actual infinities cannot be traversed.

nice knowledge claim, and a red herring.....actual infinities applies to numerical systems.this has absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

Sure, it's a mathematical idea. However if God is omniscient then his knowledge is an actual infinity since it is completed (he is all knowing) and definite and consists of infinitely many elements. It satisfies the criteria. Theists often refer to God's infinite power and infinite knowledge. Regardless of the terminology, the point is that an infinity cannot be traversed. An infinite mind/memory simply could not function.

There is a myth about God's omnipotence too. He is supposed to be all powerful and yet he can't defeat Satan.

Lmao, is the fight ongoing?

Yes, according to Christians. Has Satan been defeated and no-one informed?

If there a "defeat" never coming?

You might have to rewrite this in English.

This is simply illogical nonsense.

Then you should be able to point out the logic error instead of just asserting there is one. Over to you.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

However, as always you reveal you ignorance both of scripture and of Jehovah himself.

Does God know everything?

Of course he doesn't, why would he?

I have told you before Jehovah works on trust.

When he and his only begotten son created the Angels they were all created with free will, which Jehovah trusted them to use wisely.

Obviously when you give intelligent creatures free will there is always the change that they will not use it wisely, and so it proved. But there was no way Jehovah could or would know that until it happened.

Why?

Because he respects our privacy. Our thoughts are our own

Jehovah didn't create Satan, all Angels were created the same, all equal, but the Angel who was entrusted with the responsible job of watching over the Garden of Eden got greedy and gave in to that greed, Thus he made himself into both a Satan and a Devil, both of which are titles.


Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

No he does not.

Again, he respects our privacy, and he is giving all an equal chance to learn.

The fact that he know that the vast majority will reject him simply comes from experience of how some people are likely to react. He does not know which ones will listen and which won't, nor does he know which ones will fail.

However he is not judgemental, and so he lets us choose for ourselves without undue influence.


God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

You really do cling to the false beliefs of false Christianity don;t you.

Why do you do that? So you have an excuse not to believe?

Christ won't accept excuses when he has gone to the trouble of using his people to put the truth out there.

Ignorance, when the truth wasn't available will be seen as an excuse, but deliberate ignorance when the truth is available will not be.

Truth is vital and is the only thing which brings life.
Chloe8
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5/3/2016 7:03:55 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

In my rather more limited studies I somehow came across something you missed!

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

If God is not omniscient his understanding has limits which contradicts this verse.

However, as always you reveal you ignorance both of scripture and of Jehovah himself.

Actually that's incorrect! Read the verse above!

Does God know everything?

Well according to the bible there is no limit to his understanding! By acknowledging he does have limits you contradict the bible! The bible clearly claims God has no limits in his understanding!

Of course he doesn't, why would he?

I'm just showing what the bible claims. It's a strange thing to admit your god has limited knowledge but you have to contradict the bible in one way or the other. I've come across a huge error here by the bible authors.

I have told you before Jehovah works on trust.

When he and his only begotten son created the Angels they were all created with free will, which Jehovah trusted them to use wisely.

Your claim Contradicts Psalm 147:5.

Obviously when you give intelligent creatures free will there is always the change that they will not use it wisely, and so it proved. But there was no way Jehovah could or would know that until it happened.

Why?

By acknowledging his knowledge is limited. You admir Psalm 147:5: is a false claim/ a lie.

Because he respects our privacy. Our thoughts are our own

The holy spirit supposedly observes every single thing we do in our lives! You call that privacy? If God can't read our minds how does he know if we believe in him or not? We could pretend to believe in him through our actions but actually just be taking Pascals wager in our minds?

Jehovah didn't create Satan, all Angels were created the same, all equal, but the Angel who was entrusted with the responsible job of watching over the Garden of Eden got greedy and gave in to that greed, Thus he made himself into both a Satan and a Devil, both of which are titles.

It's such a silly story. No angel would act in such a way. It would know it's actions would lead to its destruction by God.


Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made! Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus? A Christian will say they all went to heaven because they didn't hear about jesus so God took them to heaven. Well, what about ALL the people in various corners of the globe who have never heard about jesus? Since they will go to heaven, why the hell should we hear about jesus in the first place? Hearing about him is more like a curse (due to being required to choose) than not.

No he does not.

Again, he respects our privacy, and he is giving all an equal chance to learn.

So how does he know if we believe in him?

He does not give us any privacy! He is everywhere!

The fact that he know that the vast majority will reject him simply comes from experience of how some people are likely to react. He does not know which ones will listen and which won't, nor does he know which ones will fail.

So the bible is wrong. His knowledge is limited.

However he is not judgemental, and so he lets us choose for ourselves without undue influence.

He is clearly judgemental! Judgement day!


God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

You really do cling to the false beliefs of false Christianity don;t you.

Yes this thread was aimed at disproving mainstream Christianity. I will have to get round to making a specific thread to disprove Your denomination sometime!

Why do you do that? So you have an excuse not to believe?

Because more people believe In that form of Christianity. It just seems logical to target the more popular religion, more people respond.

Christ won't accept excuses when he has gone to the trouble of using his people to put the truth out there.

Well he is doing an incredibly poor job.

Ignorance, when the truth wasn't available will be seen as an excuse, but deliberate ignorance when the truth is available will not be.

He is yet to make the truth available. You simply believe Charles taze Russell's interpretation of the bible. Jesus has never communicated with your denomination.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
12_13
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5/3/2016 7:41:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace?

Probably the reason is this:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children",

That is not true, at least if Bible is the foundation of Christianity.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Yeah, but people wanted to know evil, therefore we are in this death to learn what evil truly means. After this lesson those who love good more than evil and become righteous get eternal life.

In Biblical point of view we should not fear anything of this world, it is just temporary lesson.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28-31

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made!

Perhaps this all is for us, so that we prove that God"s judgment is true.

And if the future is known, it doesn"t mean that every choice you make, is made by someone else than you. You just are so predictable that all your choices can be known, but still they are your free choices.

Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus?

For pre Jesus people it is said:

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

And for those who have not yet heard of Jesus:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

http://www.kolumbus.fi...

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

We have free will. That it is known what we do, doesn"t limit the freedom. Or what do you think, if I know what you answer to this, have I limited your freedom?
Chloe8
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5/3/2016 8:45:49 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 7:41:32 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace?

Probably the reason is this:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

God clearly didn't want satan to ruin his perfect creation. He would not have given Satan the task of overseeing the garden of Eden If he could have predicted Satan's future. If he knew Adam and eve were gullible to Satan's lies he would not have created them in the way he did.

Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children",

That is not true, at least if Bible is the foundation of Christianity.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

That's a good point actually. It does imply many are actually Satan's children. However God being the real creator of the universe would save people from Satan's evil influence.

would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

Yeah, but people wanted to know evil, therefore we are in this death to learn what evil truly means. After this lesson those who love good more than evil and become righteous get eternal life.

Only because God gave people the desire to want to know evil. That was his decision. Evil is unnecessary. There is no need to want or know it.

In Biblical point of view we should not fear anything of this world, it is just temporary lesson.

The bible implies we should live in fear. It suggests a few decades here will shape our eternity. Either we will have the best possible eternity or the worst possible one. According to Christianity this life should be completely built around ensuring eternal paradise and avoiding eternal torment.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28-31

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he already knows ALL the people who will accept him or reject him even before they are born. If he already knows, where is the "choosing" at all? That means that people think they are choosing but in reality the choice is already made!

Perhaps this all is for us, so that we prove that God"s judgment is true.

It's absolute stupidity. The omniscient god could just create the people it knows will follow it's rules! Why create people and torment them for eternity! The whole point of this life according to the bible is for God to find the right people for heaven!

And if the future is known, it doesn"t mean that every choice you make, is made by someone else than you. You just are so predictable that all your choices can be known, but still they are your free choices.

That's true. But there is no need for God to create people he knows will not follow his rules!

Also, what about ALL the people born before jesus?

For pre Jesus people it is said:

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

And for those who have not yet heard of Jesus:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

http://www.kolumbus.fi...

Proof not knowing about Jesus or God is a huge advantage. Christians should try and keep the truth secret!

God, if omniscient already knows who is going to choose Him and who is going to reject Him. If he doesn't and we as humans really have 'free will', God is not omniscient meaning the bible is wrong!

We have free will. That it is known what we do, doesn"t limit the freedom. Or what do you think, if I know what you answer to this, have I limited your freedom?

No you haven't. However my points prove the Christian god does not need to create the people who end up in hell. It must like torturing people.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2016 9:11:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 7:03:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

In my rather more limited studies I somehow came across something you missed!

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

It says his understanding not his knowledge.

There is a lot of difference.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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5/3/2016 9:19:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 9:11:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2016 7:03:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

In my rather more limited studies I somehow came across something you missed!

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

It says his understanding not his knowledge.

There is a lot of difference.

Which you will explain in 3...2...1....
Go!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/3/2016 9:45:00 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 9:19:29 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 5/3/2016 9:11:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2016 7:03:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

In my rather more limited studies I somehow came across something you missed!

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

It says his understanding not his knowledge.

There is a lot of difference.

Which you will explain in 3...2...1....
Go!

If you don't now the difference you won't understand the answer.

I've known 5 year olds who know the difference between knowledge and understanding.
Athomos
Posts: 401
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5/3/2016 9:59:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 9:45:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2016 9:19:29 PM, Athomos wrote:
At 5/3/2016 9:11:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2016 7:03:55 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2016 10:15:56 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
According to the bible god is omniscient or all-knowing. If this is indeed true, why on earth was "lucifer" (the devil) created as an angel? Did God not know that he would rebel and "fall" from grace? If he did know, why such a devious plot to create evil and tempt mankind? These points disprove the silly christian excuse of blaming satan for ruining gods perfect plan. The same can be said of adam. If the Christian god exists and is omniscient it would have known adam was going to give in to satans temptation. Christians will sneak out of this argument by claiming God wants to give people "free-will". Free-will is a joke of an answer because, according to Christianity, we are all God's "children". If we are God's "children", would He be so callous as to allow us to "choose" between that which is 'good' and that which is 'evil'? Would we allow our 'children' to choose between paradise or eternal torture without clearly explaining how each result could be decided? What does every "loving" parent do? Protect their children from evil of any sort by offering their children the most detailed explanation possible of any potential dangers.

In all my studies of the Bible I have never once seen the word "Omniscient" appear.

In my rather more limited studies I somehow came across something you missed!

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

It says his understanding not his knowledge.

There is a lot of difference.

Which you will explain in 3...2...1....
Go!

If you don't now the difference you won't understand the answer.

I've known 5 year olds who know the difference between knowledge and understanding.

I would never dream of calling upon you to repair my ignorance on any given topic.
But our answers might differ.

I want to know yours and how you apply it to the wisest being in the entire universe.
Go!