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Homosexuality is against nature

Jovian
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5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.
Skepticalone
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5/5/2016 12:45:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

Plus, homosexuality exists in the wild so I've never understand how it viewed as unnatural.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

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What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Jovian
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5/5/2016 1:02:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:45:43 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

Plus, homosexuality exists in the wild so I've never understand how it viewed as unnatural.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

There is a connotation to natural that nature has a course and thus homosexuality isn't a part of it. Here there are arguments like reproduction etc. But even in that definition, we would have to live very primitive to not be hypocrites.

A human does per default drown in water. A human implodes in space. A human can't breathe underwater. Black people get a shortage in vitamin if they live on northern latitudes. White people risk skin cancer if they live on southern latitudes. There have been evil diseases like the plague and the smallpox around.

Yet we have been very unnatural and BATTLED this nature.
missmedic
Posts: 387
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5/5/2016 1:32:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

You have a few posts on here about homosexuality, it seems you are trying to justify your hatred towards homosexual. All you are doing is confirming your own sexuality.
http://www.livescience.com...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://www.revelandriot.com...
Athomos
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5/5/2016 1:43:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 1:32:34 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

You have a few posts on here about homosexuality, it seems you are trying to justify your hatred towards homosexual. All you are doing is confirming your own sexuality.
http://www.livescience.com...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://www.revelandriot.com...

He's been sarcastic.
His views are the exact opposite of what you think.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
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5/5/2016 2:49:35 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured.

Not a good example to choose. If you put a baby (up to 6 months) into water it can imitate a primitive swimming motion (usually) although it is not actual swimming. Most of us have that survival reflex (diving too) and then we lose it. Sorry to spoil your party.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/5/2016 4:16:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

Okay, driving cars is unnatural, too.

But, driving cars is very valuable. The mental illness of homosexuality is just sad, with no benefit to society. And, don't expect me to believe that anyone wants to a homosexual over being straight.

Driving cars might be unnatural, but it's not a perversion of nature.
Jovian
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5/5/2016 4:22:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:16:20 PM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

Okay, driving cars is unnatural, too.

Yep.

But, driving cars is very valuable.

So will we see you stop using unnatural as bad in the future?

The mental illness of homosexuality

Where is your PhD on why it should be regarded a mental illness? Not many psychiatrists would agree with you.

is just sad, with no benefit to society.

It is like heterosexuality minus producing babies. So in your world, heterosexual couples who see no point in having children are all struck by disorder.

And, don't expect me to believe that anyone wants to a homosexual over being straight.

Most homosexuals would choose heterosexual preference if they could, to not raise the risk of themselves becoming shunned, discriminated, bullied, assaulted or even killed, because of homophobes like you.

Driving cars might be unnatural, but it's not a perversion of nature.

Same meanings, sir.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/5/2016 4:40:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

well if u r an atheist evreything goes. if i argue as an atheist murder is natural u cant disprove me.

and its more logical to say homosexuality is against nature if u count by majority obviously.

why do u agrue that eating food through your butt is "natural" i saw it in southpark.. its natural for me lol!!!
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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5/5/2016 4:41:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:40:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

well if u r an atheist evreything goes. if i argue as an atheist murder is natural u cant disprove me.

and its more logical to say homosexuality is against nature if u count by majority obviously.

why do u agrue that eating food through your butt is "natural" i saw it in southpark.. its natural for me lol!!!

dont**>.......
Never fart near dog
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/5/2016 4:50:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:40:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

well if u r an atheist evreything goes. if i argue as an atheist murder is natural u cant disprove me.

To murder someone is fully natural. I mean, haven't you ever wanted to kill someone for a second after having quarrelled with this person? But you overrode your natural inclination and realized it would be wrong?

Nature isn't a moral compass.

and its more logical to say homosexuality is against nature if u count by majority obviously.

Well, if you go down this path, then you would consider many things unnatural, like being a doctor, since only 1% of the world are doctors.

why do u agrue that eating food through your butt is "natural" i saw it in southpark.. its natural for me lol!!!

Anything could be natural to anyone. It is however never of an excuse to say you were naturally inclined to something. Otherwise we wouldn't had ever filled any prison we have.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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5/5/2016 4:58:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I'm sorry, but I don't have time right now... This will have to do.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/6/2016 6:27:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:50:38 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:40:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

well if u r an atheist evreything goes. if i argue as an atheist murder is natural u cant disprove me.

To murder someone is fully natural. I mean, haven't you ever wanted to kill someone for a second after having quarrelled with this person? But you overrode your natural inclination and realized it would be wrong?

Nature isn't a moral compass.

well in the british empire it wasnt (if that victim wasnt a british). in nazi germany it wasnt. in nature animal always killing each other trying to survive... oh wait humans doing good job at that killing millions who r different from them. there is no true "moral compass" u get it from where u were born, culture circumstances, mental and physical ability or determined by your genes somehow... in short its a brainwash product like religion. if u think murder is good for u it will be good. americans doing good job at it by killing millions of ppl only for stealing resources from other lands they dont satisfy in their huge money already pouring out their asses... under the pretext of "democracy" and the funny thing is ppl really buying it.


and its more logical to say homosexuality is against nature if u count by majority obviously.

Well, if you go down this path, then you would consider many things unnatural, like being a doctor, since only 1% of the world are doctors.

what it have to do with doctors. i dont say homosexuality totally unnatural but the purpose of sexually for male and female is reproduction. if 2 gays take it for fun im not the right person to say they r "wrong" cz im not a gay.


why do u agrue that eating food through your butt is "natural" i saw it in southpark.. its natural for me lol!!!


Anything could be natural to anyone. It is however never of an excuse to say you were naturally inclined to something. Otherwise we wouldn't had ever filled any prison we have.

to some ppl is an excuse. filling prisons or not doesnt matter to them.
Never fart near dog
Kirigaya-Kazuto
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5/6/2016 11:00:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:45:43 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

Plus, homosexuality exists in the wild so I've never understand how it viewed as unnatural.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

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skipsaweirdo
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5/6/2016 11:28:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.
No one taught me to swim. I fell in a pond at 5 and simply swam out. How is my ability not natural?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:

9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God"s Kingdom? Do not be misled:

01: Those who are sexually immoral,
02: idolaters,
03: adulterers,
04: men who submit to homosexual acts,
05: men who practice homosexuality,
06: thieves
07: greedy people,
08 drunkards,
09 revilers,
10 and extortioners
will not inherit God"s Kingdom.

But note how the passage continues: 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

I suggest you think about that list.

Is homosexuality put at #1?

No it is mixed in with al the rest.

Why?

because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience.

Simple as.
MadCornishBiker
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5/6/2016 12:52:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 12:31:41 PM, tarantula wrote:
Garbage!

Nope, truth, as you will one day know, whether you want to or not.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,210
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5/6/2016 12:55:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

That which occurs in nature.

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

Those differences can be accepted without a creator, and secondly, what an interesting design. Omnipotence really broke the mold.

The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

Ipse dixit. Why is it wrong beyond God's say so?

That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:



I suggest you think about that list. Is homosexuality put at #1? No it is mixed in with al the rest. Why?

Because its hard to motivate women to take men if they are interested in other women to contribute to society. Effectively you are removing mates from the pool, which has a tendency to make men very displeased.

because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

For the purpose of...? A lot of what you are listing has obvious consequences to other people, which makes sense. But then it turns into selfish things. Care to guess as to why?

If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience. Simple as.

Simple as: screw you. This charming little anecdote of "properly trained conscience" coming from you falls incredibly flat, especially if you are simply pointing to something else that you consider "right" and haven't been able to figure it out for yourself.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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tarantula
Posts: 854
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5/6/2016 12:55:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 12:52:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:31:41 PM, tarantula wrote:
Garbage!

Nope, truth, as you will one day know, whether you want to or not.

MCB you are an unpleasant bigot fuelled by your evil JW cult. By all accounts your behaviour is far from perfect, so I suggest you concentrate on your own wrongdoings instead of telling others how to behave.
DanneJeRusse
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5/6/2016 12:57:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 6:27:28 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:50:38 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:40:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

well if u r an atheist evreything goes. if i argue as an atheist murder is natural u cant disprove me.

To murder someone is fully natural. I mean, haven't you ever wanted to kill someone for a second after having quarrelled with this person? But you overrode your natural inclination and realized it would be wrong?

Nature isn't a moral compass.

well in the british empire it wasnt (if that victim wasnt a british). in nazi germany it wasnt. in nature animal always killing each other trying to survive... oh wait humans doing good job at that killing millions who r different from them. there is no true "moral compass" u get it from where u were born, culture circumstances, mental and physical ability or determined by your genes somehow... in short its a brainwash product like religion. if u think murder is good for u it will be good. americans doing good job at it by killing millions of ppl only for stealing resources from other lands they dont satisfy in their huge money already pouring out their asses... under the pretext of "democracy" and the funny thing is ppl really buying it.


and its more logical to say homosexuality is against nature if u count by majority obviously.

Well, if you go down this path, then you would consider many things unnatural, like being a doctor, since only 1% of the world are doctors.

what it have to do with doctors. i dont say homosexuality totally unnatural but the purpose of sexually for male and female is reproduction.

You have either never had sexual relations before or would be lying if you did and never once did so with the intent of just having some fun.

if 2 gays take it for fun im not the right person to say they r "wrong" cz im not a gay.


why do u agrue that eating food through your butt is "natural" i saw it in southpark.. its natural for me lol!!!


Anything could be natural to anyone. It is however never of an excuse to say you were naturally inclined to something. Otherwise we wouldn't had ever filled any prison we have.

to some ppl is an excuse. filling prisons or not doesnt matter to them.
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a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/6/2016 1:32:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 12:55:58 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:52:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:31:41 PM, tarantula wrote:
Garbage!

Nope, truth, as you will one day know, whether you want to or not.

MCB you are an unpleasant bigot fuelled by your evil JW cult. By all accounts your behaviour is far from perfect, so I suggest you concentrate on your own wrongdoings instead of telling others how to behave.

You have no idea what my behaviour is like.

I have concentrated on what I have done wrong in the past and removed those things from my life.

From many of your replies it appears that it is your twisted thinking that makes you a truly unpleasant person, and certainly a bigot who is happy to ignore the evidence and judge in ignorance.

I am certainly glad that the God is serve is immeasurably more loving, more wise, more just and more merciful than you appear to even try to be. As his history proves if you look deeply enough into it to find out what is behind everything he does.

I would certainly infinitely prefer to have him at my shoulder, as I do, than someone as bitter and twisted as you show yourself to be in your posts.

I pity you deeply.
MadCornishBiker
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5/6/2016 1:55:30 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 12:55:21 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

That which occurs in nature.

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

I would define "over-evolved" as being a much greater gap between the development of man and the animals than makes any sense whatever.

We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind and to be able to make decisions about what to do that the animals have ever been. Animals have little idea of right or wrong, as humans can if they are taught it. Their only controlling factors are what come between them and food / mating.


However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

Those differences can be accepted without a creator, and secondly, what an interesting design. Omnipotence really broke the mold.

No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

Define Omnipotence?

It is not a term I would ever use.

What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

Omnipotent, Omni Presence and Omnipotence are terms which come from Apostasy not scripture.

Whilst it is true that none can limit Jehovah in any way, he can and does limit himself in all directions.


The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

Ipse dixit. Why is it wrong beyond God's say so?

Ask yourself why God says so.

I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever. True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

Something else which separates us from the animals.


That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:



I suggest you think about that list. Is homosexuality put at #1? No it is mixed in with al the rest. Why?

Because its hard to motivate women to take men if they are interested in other women to contribute to society. Effectively you are removing mates from the pool, which has a tendency to make men very displeased.

And Jehovah also.


because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

For the purpose of...? A lot of what you are listing has obvious consequences to other people, which makes sense. But then it turns into selfish things. Care to guess as to why?

Yes, and that includes homosexuality. The harm it does to others is that it encourages them to believe there is nothing wrong with it, and puts them in opposition to God. There is no greater harm you can do to any than that.

Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.


If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience. Simple as.

Simple as: screw you. This charming little anecdote of "properly trained conscience" coming from you falls incredibly flat, especially if you are simply pointing to something else that you consider "right" and haven't been able to figure it out for yourself.

Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense.

Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality.

Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

The only reason I want people to turn away from homosexuality is to make them more interesting to God to their own eternal benefit.

Personally it makes no difference to me who does what to which, as long as they don;t involve me. At least not over and above the simple fact that the more who decide to turn away from such wrong practices, the more people I shall have available to share the cleansed ad restored earth with.

To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

Even eternity hardly seems long enough for that.
tarantula
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5/6/2016 2:14:28 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 1:55:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:55:21 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

That which occurs in nature.

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

I would define "over-evolved" as being a much greater gap between the development of man and the animals than makes any sense whatever.

We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind and to be able to make decisions about what to do that the animals have ever been. Animals have little idea of right or wrong, as humans can if they are taught it. Their only controlling factors are what come between them and food / mating.


However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

Those differences can be accepted without a creator, and secondly, what an interesting design. Omnipotence really broke the mold.

No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

Define Omnipotence?

It is not a term I would ever use.

What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

Omnipotent, Omni Presence and Omnipotence are terms which come from Apostasy not scripture.

Whilst it is true that none can limit Jehovah in any way, he can and does limit himself in all directions.


The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

Ipse dixit. Why is it wrong beyond God's say so?

Ask yourself why God says so.

I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever. True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

Something else which separates us from the animals.


That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:



I suggest you think about that list. Is homosexuality put at #1? No it is mixed in with al the rest. Why?

Because its hard to motivate women to take men if they are interested in other women to contribute to society. Effectively you are removing mates from the pool, which has a tendency to make men very displeased.

And Jehovah also.


because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

For the purpose of...? A lot of what you are listing has obvious consequences to other people, which makes sense. But then it turns into selfish things. Care to guess as to why?

Yes, and that includes homosexuality. The harm it does to others is that it encourages them to believe there is nothing wrong with it, and puts them in opposition to God. There is no greater harm you can do to any than that.

Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.


If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience. Simple as.

Simple as: screw you. This charming little anecdote of "properly trained conscience" coming from you falls incredibly flat, especially if you are simply pointing to something else that you consider "right" and haven't been able to figure it out for yourself.

Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense.

Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality.

Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

The only reason I want people to turn away from homosexuality is to make them more interesting to God to their own eternal benefit.

Personally it makes no difference to me who does what to which, as long as they don;t involve me. At least not over and above the simple fact that the more who decide to turn away from such wrong practices, the more people I shall have available to share the cleansed ad restored earth with.

To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

Even eternity hardly seems long enough for that.

More assertions, no evidence!
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,210
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5/6/2016 2:27:48 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 1:55:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:55:21 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

That which occurs in nature.

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

I would define "over-evolved" as being a much greater gap between the development of man and the animals than makes any sense whatever.

So you are marveling at what a bit of brain power can do. Cool.


We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind...

But what that purpose is... remains to be seen, of course.


However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

Those differences can be accepted without a creator, and secondly, what an interesting design. Omnipotence really broke the mold.

No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

That is evolution's exact explanation. Its attempts and evidence, I find easy to accept. Creator not required, at least as discussed in this convo.

Define Omnipotence? It is not a term I would ever use. What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

If He is all loving, all wise, all just, and all merciful, it stands to reason He would also be all powerful and all present.

One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

I disagree on that, but carrying on.

The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

Ipse dixit. Why is it wrong beyond God's say so?

I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

With no instruction or tools to said purpose, I venture said purpose doesn't exist, and positive or productive aspects on that topic are hardly your specific business, is it? Playing Monopoly has no positive or productive aspects, but people do it anyways.

Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever.

Aside from the fact you can have sex with some one you love?

True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

So then why is "heterosexuality" not listed? ;)


That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:



I suggest you think about that list. Is homosexuality put at #1? No it is mixed in with al the rest. Why?

Because its hard to motivate women to take men if they are interested in other women to contribute to society. Effectively you are removing mates from the pool, which has a tendency to make men very displeased.

And Jehovah also.

Well, He is welcome to come down and voice His displeasure whenever He feels.


because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

For the purpose of...? A lot of what you are listing has obvious consequences to other people, which makes sense. But then it turns into selfish things. Care to guess as to why?

Yes, and that includes homosexuality. The harm it does to others is that it encourages them to believe there is nothing wrong with it, and puts them in opposition to God.

Thus far, the only reason you have suggested its wrong (that has real justification, at least) is because God doesn't like it.

There is no greater harm you can do to any than that. Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.

And yet everything God doesn't do is just as harmful to both.


If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience. Simple as.

Simple as: screw you. This charming little anecdote of "properly trained conscience" coming from you falls incredibly flat, especially if you are simply pointing to something else that you consider "right" and haven't been able to figure it out for yourself.

Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense. Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality. Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

No, my crude 2 word response is predicated on the insult you delivered first, the justification for dismissal stems from the fact you now require something to point you in the "right" direction, indicating that no, you didn't have it figured it out: else you wouldn't have done it. "Simple as".

The only reason I want people to turn away from homosexuality is to make them more interesting to God to their own eternal benefit. Personally it makes no difference to me who does what to which, as long as they don;t involve me. At least not over and above the simple fact that the more who decide to turn away from such wrong practices, the more people I shall have available to share the cleansed ad restored earth with.

To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

Again, He is welcome to come down and illustrate it.

After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

But homosexuality wouldn't be one of them. 'inexhaustible'. 'ever increasing'. Words mean things, bro.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/6/2016 2:48:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 2:14:28 PM, tarantula wrote:
At 5/6/2016 1:55:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/6/2016 12:55:21 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

That which occurs in nature.

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

I would define "over-evolved" as being a much greater gap between the development of man and the animals than makes any sense whatever.

We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind and to be able to make decisions about what to do that the animals have ever been. Animals have little idea of right or wrong, as humans can if they are taught it. Their only controlling factors are what come between them and food / mating.


However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

Those differences can be accepted without a creator, and secondly, what an interesting design. Omnipotence really broke the mold.

No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

Define Omnipotence?

It is not a term I would ever use.

What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

Omnipotent, Omni Presence and Omnipotence are terms which come from Apostasy not scripture.

Whilst it is true that none can limit Jehovah in any way, he can and does limit himself in all directions.


The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

Ipse dixit. Why is it wrong beyond God's say so?

Ask yourself why God says so.

I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever. True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

Something else which separates us from the animals.


That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:



I suggest you think about that list. Is homosexuality put at #1? No it is mixed in with al the rest. Why?

Because its hard to motivate women to take men if they are interested in other women to contribute to society. Effectively you are removing mates from the pool, which has a tendency to make men very displeased.

And Jehovah also.


because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

For the purpose of...? A lot of what you are listing has obvious consequences to other people, which makes sense. But then it turns into selfish things. Care to guess as to why?

Yes, and that includes homosexuality. The harm it does to others is that it encourages them to believe there is nothing wrong with it, and puts them in opposition to God. There is no greater harm you can do to any than that.

Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.


If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience. Simple as.

Simple as: screw you. This charming little anecdote of "properly trained conscience" coming from you falls incredibly flat, especially if you are simply pointing to something else that you consider "right" and haven't been able to figure it out for yourself.

Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense.

Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality.

Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

The only reason I want people to turn away from homosexuality is to make them more interesting to God to their own eternal benefit.

Personally it makes no difference to me who does what to which, as long as they don;t involve me. At least not over and above the simple fact that the more who decide to turn away from such wrong practices, the more people I shall have available to share the cleansed ad restored earth with.

To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

Even eternity hardly seems long enough for that.

More assertions, no evidence!

But since you insist on ignoring the obvious evidence why should I give you more?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/6/2016 3:14:10 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 2:27:48 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/6/2016 1:55:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Define "over-evolved", or better, explain how we aren't.

I would define "over-evolved" as being a much greater gap between the development of man and the animals than makes any sense whatever.

So you are marvelling at what a bit of brain power can do. Cool.

We are not discussing a bit of brain power. Mankind's brain power has proven over and again to be much greater than that of any animal. The brain power also covers a considerably increased area of application.

For what purpose?

So we can develop a conscience and care about more than just where our next meal is coming from or increasing the population. The sum total of the focus of animals.



We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind...

But what that purpose is... remains to be seen, of course.

Not at all, the Bible makes that purpose very clear indeed.

To care for and enjoy this earth and everything on it.

Simple as.

Why else would Jehovah create a species with such advanced possibilities?


No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

That is evolution's exact explanation. Its attempts and evidence, I find easy to accept. Creator not required, at least as discussed in this convo.

The trouble is there is insufficient evidence available to support anything other than the creation of basic "kinds" which are then allowed to adapt as needed.

That is exactly what creation describes.

Therefore creation fits the available evidence with no need for "extras".

You obviously are prepared to accept something despite the evidence against then.

I couldn't, despite wanting to once upon a time.


Define Omnipotence? It is not a term I would ever use. What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

If He is all loving, all wise, all just, and all merciful, it stands to reason He would also be all powerful and all present.

Yes, but those qualities also force a limit on his use of power, presence etc.

For instance, despite the fact that he could, Jehovah does not enter our minds, or allow his Angels to do so without our permission.

I wish Satan allowed us such privacy.


One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

I disagree on that, but carrying on.

Well you would because it requires belief in God. However if you know your Bible well enough that is exactly the type of God it describes.


I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

With no instruction or tools to said purpose, I venture said purpose doesn't exist, and positive or productive aspects on that topic are hardly your specific business, is it? Playing Monopoly has no positive or productive aspects, but people do it anyways.

They are absolutely the business of all of us that is why the Bible explains to us what they are.


Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever.

Aside from the fact you can have sex with some one you love?

Of course you can, but you can also love someone without sex, because neither one is a requirement for the other.


True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

So then why is "heterosexuality" not listed? ;)

It is, did you not read your Bible.

It is in fact the first thing listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Fornication in any form is banned. I take it you understand what fornication is?




And Jehovah also.

Well, He is welcome to come down and voice His displeasure whenever He feels.

He has, in the Bible, and through his son when on earth.

Jehovah cannot come down in "person" since his presence would destroy the universe.

After all, the whole of the universe was created from his energy, with apparently no appreciable loss.



Thus far, the only reason you have suggested its wrong (that has real justification, at least) is because God doesn't like it.

No, I have also explained why he doesn't like it.

To repeat it not only doesn't fit in his purposes but actually works against them.


There is no greater harm you can do to any than that. Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.

And yet everything God doesn't do is just as harmful to both.

Nothing God does is harmful to either, as you would know if you knew your Bible well enough, which you obviously do not or you could not make such a statement.


Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense. Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality. Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

No, my crude 2 word response is predicated on the insult you delivered first, the justification for dismissal stems from the fact you now require something to point you in the "right" direction, indicating that no, you didn't have it figured it out: else you wouldn't have done it. "Simple as".

I came out with no insult, only truth. The truth is never an insult unless you choose to take it as such.

Truth is something you can learn from, it insults no-one.



To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

Again, He is welcome to come down and illustrate it.

See my previous answer.


After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

But homosexuality wouldn't be one of them. 'inexhaustible'. 'ever increasing'. Words mean things, bro.

Absolutely they do, and I meant them to.

If you have, say 1 Billion people on the earth, how long would it take you to do the rounds and share experiences with them?

By the time you had done the rounds you, and they, would all have more stories to tell, so round we go again.

And it carries on ad infinitum.

Who knows how many billion people there will eventually be by the time the earth is finally filed?
FaustianJustice
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5/6/2016 3:36:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
For what purpose? So we can develop a conscience and care about more than just where our next meal is coming from or increasing the population. The sum total of the focus of animals.

Demonstrably false, let me know if you would like to discuss that.



We did not evolve, we were created with a definite purpose in mind...

But what that purpose is... remains to be seen, of course.

Not at all, the Bible makes that purpose very clear indeed.

No, it doesn't. No where after coming the Bible do I find a specific purpose for anything beyond paying Him worship. Politely, i'll pass.

Why else would Jehovah create a species with such advanced possibilities?

Ego.


No they cannot. At least no-one has succeeded in explaining them any other way yet.

That is evolution's exact explanation. Its attempts and evidence, I find easy to accept. Creator not required, at least as discussed in this convo.

The trouble is there is insufficient evidence available to support anything other than the creation of basic "kinds" which are then allowed to adapt as needed.

That is exactly what creation describes.

... "exactly"? I don't think such is mentioned in any form, but again, you are welcome to detail where in the Bible special adaptation is outlined.

You obviously are prepared to accept something despite the evidence against then.

If you say so. I have seen literally no evidence of a god as described in the Bible, and it of itself is incoherent.


Define Omnipotence? It is not a term I would ever use. What I would say is that Jehovah has enough power to do anything he wishes and which fits within his ruling characteristics of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Mercy.

If He is all loving, all wise, all just, and all merciful, it stands to reason He would also be all powerful and all present.

Yes, but those qualities also force a limit on his use of power, presence etc. For instance, despite the fact that he could, Jehovah does not enter our minds, or allow his Angels to do so without our permission.

Not according to the Bible. I can think of 2 examples off the top of my head that refute your statement.

One of the greatest display of his power is his level of self-control.

I disagree on that, but carrying on.

Well you would because it requires belief in God. However if you know your Bible well enough that is exactly the type of God it describes.

Global flood. That is not "self control". Jealous God's demanding worship is not "self control".


I suppose my main answer to that would be because it does not fit into the purpose for which we are created and has no positive or productive aspects whatever.

With no instruction or tools to said purpose, I venture said purpose doesn't exist, and positive or productive aspects on that topic are hardly your specific business, is it? Playing Monopoly has no positive or productive aspects, but people do it anyways.

They are absolutely the business of all of us that is why the Bible explains to us what they are.

Fortune cookies do the same, then.


Don;t forget we are talking here about sexuality, not love, and they are very different things with no causal relationship whatever.

Aside from the fact you can have sex with some one you love?

Of course you can, but you can also love someone without sex, because neither one is a requirement for the other.

True love (Greek Agape) is a function of morality and conscience. Sexuality is purely physically based, purely libidinous. It can however be enhanced or reduced by the mind and limits of conscience.

So then why is "heterosexuality" not listed? ;)

It is, did you not read your Bible. It is in fact the first thing listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Fornication in any form is banned. I take it you understand what fornication is?

The better question is if you do. Fornication is sex outside of wedlock. Done. So, again, why is homosexuality specifically singled out, but heterosexual act not?




And Jehovah also.

Well, He is welcome to come down and voice His displeasure whenever He feels.

He has, in the Bible, and through his son when on earth. Jehovah cannot come down in "person" since his presence would destroy the universe.

Again, arguably not true based on what we read in the Bible regarding God's presence, and what His purpose is.


Thus far, the only reason you have suggested its wrong (that has real justification, at least) is because God doesn't like it.

No, I have also explained why he doesn't like it.

By vaguely alluding to a purpose? Were this any discussion other than religion, would that pass as an explanation for you about anything?

There is no greater harm you can do to any than that. Everything God rules out is to prevent harm to his purposes and to humanity.

And yet everything God doesn't do is just as harmful to both.

Nothing God does is harmful to either, ....

Re-read what I said. I counter evil happens, you counter its personal choice, I quote verses in which choice is removed by God, you sputter. Shall we begin?


Oh I can figure it out for myself, always have been able to. I have always subscribed to the French "Vive la difference". Being sexually drawn to someone built the same as me has never made sense. Male and female were created differently for important reasons, though those reasons only really apply to humanity since only humanity has the ability to train a conscience according to morality. Your attitude, which caused your rather crude two word response, is typical of one who is only really interested in self.

No, my crude 2 word response is predicated on the insult you delivered first, the justification for dismissal stems from the fact you now require something to point you in the "right" direction, indicating that no, you didn't have it figured it out: else you wouldn't have done it. "Simple as".

I came out with no insult, only truth.

I assure you, my "screw you", then is just as truthful, and perhaps you might learn something from it regarding your interaction with people. Solipsism is a feature, not a bug.


To Jehovah it is an important aspect of his purposes.

Again, He is welcome to come down and illustrate it.

See my previous answer.


After all, for me at least, the whole purpose of God's world will be to have an inexhaustible and ever increasing number of experiences to share with others, both theirs and mine.

But homosexuality wouldn't be one of them. 'inexhaustible'. 'ever increasing'. Words mean things, bro.

Absolutely they do, and I meant them to.

If you have, say 1 Billion people on the earth, how long would it take you to do the rounds and share experiences with them? By the time you had done the rounds you, and they, would all have more stories to tell, so round we go again.

And it carries on ad infinitum.

Not if there is a finite amount of things to do, which there are. At some point in time, during your example, "I went sky diving and deep sea fishing.... again" is what the convo will turn into.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Harikrish
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5/6/2016 3:46:15 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 11:44:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:23:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
So let us live after nature.

No more swimming. Humans aren't swimable by default, if nature intended us to swim, it would had made it natural and not nurtured. Same goes for space travel, diving, etc. Boycott it.

Or no, I forgot, the argument has an exceptionalism against anything else than homosexuality. Silly me.

I guess it depends what you view as "nature".

For those who view humans as nothing more than over-evolved animals then it is completely natural.

However for those of us who recognise the truth about humans, that we are a completely different creation to the animals, about as comparable to animals as an F1 car is to a BMW Mini, then we admit, accept, that if the creator of us says that it is not how he designed us, or what he designed us to do then we can only accept that in fact it is truly unnatural.

The desire for homosexual or lesbian relationships, is simply just another of the wrong desires which have come into the human race since Adam sinned, and like all other forms of fornication must be controlled and subdued.

That is why homosexuality is lumped in amongst all the other deadly sins at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to which I am going put in list form:

9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God"s Kingdom? Do not be misled:

01: Those who are sexually immoral,
02: idolaters,
03: adulterers,
04: men who submit to homosexual acts,
05: men who practice homosexuality,
06: thieves
07: greedy people,
08 drunkards,
09 revilers,
10 and extortioners
will not inherit God"s Kingdom.

But note how the passage continues: 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

I suggest you think about that list.

Is homosexuality put at #1?

No it is mixed in with al the rest.

Why?

because it is just another of the many wrong impulses listed there which morality should tell us to control and subdue.

If none of them offend your morality you do not have a properly trained conscience.

Simple as.

You confessed to point 1 and 3. Point 2 also applies since your God Jehovah is not found in the original Hebrew and Greek bibles. And finally you cannot be washed clean or sanctified because you believe Jesus is an angel and your God is Jehovah. Both your beliefs are false. There is no angel called Jesus in the bible nor is there a God Jehovah mentioned in the Hebrew or Greek bible.

Your continued refusal to accept the truth is why you have been disfellowshipped and shunned by the Jehovah's Witnesses and your continued denial that your perverted and sordid life does not carry any consequences resulted in many destroyed lives. There are consequences even if you are in denial. You suffer from poor health, poor morals and poor judgement and you are forced at 67 to live alone with a dog because no human wants to be near you.

To recap, even homosexuals have better outcomes.
You remain divorced after 4 marriages and your children ignores you.
You remain disfellowshipped and shunned by the JW elders.
You engaged in unnatural sexual acts and called yourself a serial adulterer.
You remain financially strapped, your fund raising attempts all failed.
You are still on medication for your suicidal depressions.
You are now physically handicapped and live on disability assistance.
You haven't been laid in 15 years.
You live alone with a dog.
You turned to Jehovah,but your government handouts are paying your bills.
You are 67 and do not have any employable skills besides being too old to work.
You think jesus was an angel. Everyone knows he was a Jewish carpenters son.
You pray to Jehovah a meaningless name in the English language.
Last we heard you were raising money for a motorcycle because your old one had to be scrapped.
You failed to raise money on Gofundme.com so you could join Imelda after trying for several years.
You were looking for relationships on a free dating service Mingle2.com while still committed to marry Imelda.