Total Posts:11|Showing Posts:1-11
Jump to topic:

God murders man with lion

Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/6/2016 8:54:40 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

The Man of God From Judah

13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: "Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: "A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you."" 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."

4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!" But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

6 Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king"s hand was restored and became as it was before.

7 The king said to the man of God, "Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift."

8 But the man of God answered the king, "Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came."" 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, "Which way did he go?" And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me." And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, "Are you the man of God who came from Judah?"

"I am," he replied.

15 So the prophet said to him, "Come home with me and eat."

16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/6/2016 9:13:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:54:40 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

The Man of God From Judah

13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: "Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: "A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you."" 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."

4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!" But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

6 Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king"s hand was restored and became as it was before.

7 The king said to the man of God, "Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift."

8 But the man of God answered the king, "Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came."" 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, "Which way did he go?" And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me." And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, "Are you the man of God who came from Judah?"

"I am," he replied.

15 So the prophet said to him, "Come home with me and eat."

16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

As for the rest it is esoteric
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/6/2016 9:26:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:13:46 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/6/2016 8:54:40 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

The Man of God From Judah

13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: "Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: "A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you."" 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."

4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!" But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

6 Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king"s hand was restored and became as it was before.

7 The king said to the man of God, "Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift."

8 But the man of God answered the king, "Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came."" 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, "Which way did he go?" And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me." And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, "Are you the man of God who came from Judah?"

"I am," he replied.

15 So the prophet said to him, "Come home with me and eat."

16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
slo1
Posts: 4,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/6/2016 9:54:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:54:40 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

The Man of God From Judah

13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: "Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: "A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you."" 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."

4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!" But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

6 Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king"s hand was restored and became as it was before.

7 The king said to the man of God, "Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift."

8 But the man of God answered the king, "Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came."" 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, "Which way did he go?" And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me." And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, "Are you the man of God who came from Judah?"

"I am," he replied.

15 So the prophet said to him, "Come home with me and eat."

16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

Sounds about right. The S.O.B who lied and convinced him to come back, eat, and drink gets a free donkey out of the deal. Even in biblical times they understood how the real world works.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/6/2016 11:49:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 9:26:12 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/6/2016 9:13:46 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/6/2016 8:54:40 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

The Man of God From Judah

13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: "Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: "A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you."" 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: "This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out."

4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, "Seize him!" But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

6 Then the king said to the man of God, "Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored." So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king"s hand was restored and became as it was before.

7 The king said to the man of God, "Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift."

8 But the man of God answered the king, "Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came."" 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, "Which way did he go?" And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me." And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, "Are you the man of God who came from Judah?"

"I am," he replied.

15 So the prophet said to him, "Come home with me and eat."

16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right from God.

As for the rest it is esoteric, the explanation of which would include the principles of the arcane.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

Yes.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

You mean the first man I assume?

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

Why would God choose a deceitful evil man as a prophet?

So you think first hand instructions from God are much better than second hand instructions. I agree. It's a shame god has failed to provide first hand information to people for 1, 900 years. If he provided everyone with first hand information then the world would be 99% Christian. Still as Christianity often used prophets to pass on second hand messages through prophets the man mauled to death by a lion didn't do anything wrong. Should he have ignored a prophet?

SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right fr

But the man was an actual prophet. The man assumed God instructed him to deliver this information. It's hard to see what would motivate a prophet to go to such great effort to deceive another prophet. The man made the logical choice. He probably thought God would punish him if he ignored a prophet of god.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2016 9:12:02 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

Yes.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

You mean the first man I assume?

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

Why would God choose a deceitful evil man as a prophet?
You're assuming that a non deceitful man existed.....simply a loaded question.
So you think first hand instructions from God are much better than second hand instructions. I agree. It's a shame god has failed to provide first hand information to people for 1, 900 years. If he provided everyone with first hand information then the world would be 99% Christian. Still as Christianity often used prophets to pass on second hand messages through prophets the man mauled to death by a lion didn't do anything wrong. Should he have ignored a prophet?
You have no idea how everyone would act if they actually got first hand instructions from God. This is simply a non sequitur.
SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right fr

But the man was an actual prophet. The man assumed God instructed him to deliver this information. It's hard to see what would motivate a prophet to go to such great effort to deceive another prophet. The man made the logical choice. He probably thought God would punish him if he ignored a prophet of god.
He probably thought.???....wow knowing what someone probably though isn't really an assertion as much as it's completely ignorant to claim what another person probably thought.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2016 3:37:32 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

Yes.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

You mean the first man I assume?

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

Why would God choose a deceitful evil man as a prophet?

So you think first hand instructions from God are much better than second hand instructions. I agree. It's a shame god has failed to provide first hand information to people for 1, 900 years. If he provided everyone with first hand information then the world would be 99% Christian. Still as Christianity often used prophets to pass on second hand messages through prophets the man mauled to death by a lion didn't do anything wrong. Should he have ignored a prophet?

SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right fr

But the man was an actual prophet. The man assumed God instructed him to deliver this information. It's hard to see what would motivate a prophet to go to such great effort to deceive another prophet. The man made the logical choice. He probably thought God would punish him if he ignored a prophet of god.

The old man was a prophet. But it doesn't say he was a prophet of God. He lived in Judah and could have been a prophet like Balaam. The people in the Bible are not flat story characters. They are real people. They have good gifts and bad intentions and all kind of other complex personalities. So you can cease and desist with saying the old man was a prophet of God. Even in his admonishment of the Man of God, he says "your God".

God doesn't always mean Yahweh or Big G God. It's use refers to any entity worshiped as having power and authority. The inflection of capitol G or lower case G is added by English translators. but the Hebrew word is the same.

The man of God that was deceived.. The prophet said, "and an angel spoke to me by the word of the LORD, saying" notice that not only is the prophet a 2 hand source he is a third hand source. Even if the prophet was sincere the Man of God should have been weary, for even the devil comes as an angel of light. So even if the prophet was truthful and honest.. the Man of God should have known better. Which is why in his admonishment the Lord speaking through the prophet said "Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD" (Hebrew and KJV)

He took what at best would have been third person account that contradicted with the first hand account he had from God's mouth.

As for why God doesn't speak to everyone like this Man of God, is because it would kill us. Not the words our actions. When God speaks the person listens. There is no maybe or right after I get some star bucks. It's God speaks you obey. And if you don't obey well you get killed by a lion. As you can tell there isn't enough people with that kind of obedience. There are a lot of people who even if God existed they don't want to hear his voice. And there are a bunch of people that if heard his voice still wouldn't believe. and ect..., all kinds of people that amounts to God speaks to people he wants to talk to who will do what he says who are open to listening to God.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2016 5:01:08 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/7/2016 3:37:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

Yes.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

You mean the first man I assume?

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

Why would God choose a deceitful evil man as a prophet?

So you think first hand instructions from God are much better than second hand instructions. I agree. It's a shame god has failed to provide first hand information to people for 1, 900 years. If he provided everyone with first hand information then the world would be 99% Christian. Still as Christianity often used prophets to pass on second hand messages through prophets the man mauled to death by a lion didn't do anything wrong. Should he have ignored a prophet?

SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right fr

But the man was an actual prophet. The man assumed God instructed him to deliver this information. It's hard to see what would motivate a prophet to go to such great effort to deceive another prophet. The man made the logical choice. He probably thought God would punish him if he ignored a prophet of god.

The old man was a prophet. But it doesn't say he was a prophet of God. He lived in Judah and could have been a prophet like Balaam. The people in the Bible are not flat story characters. They are real people. They have good gifts and bad intentions and all kind of other complex personalities. So you can cease and desist with saying the old man was a prophet of God. Even in his admonishment of the Man of God, he says "your God".

It does not call the old man a false prophet. If he was not a prophet of the Christian god it would be stated. It gives the reader the clear impression that the old man was a prophet of the Christian god. The admission by you that false prophets existed in the bible is further evidence that the words of supposedly real prophets are really just their own words or the words of other humans.

God doesn't always mean Yahweh or Big G God. It's use refers to any entity worshiped as having power and authority. The inflection of capitol G or lower case G is added by English translators. but the Hebrew word is the same.

Of course. Humanity has invented thousands of God's over the years. If the man in question was a false prophet as you claim then the bible would have linked him to Satan or separated him from Yahweh in some way. It would not give false prophets the title of prophet.

The man of God that was deceived.. The prophet said, "and an angel spoke to me by the word of the LORD,

Here he claims to be a Christian prophet. I'm not aware of any other gods worshipped at the time referred to as the LORD. This verse refutes all your claims about the man not claiming to be a prophet of Yahweh.

saying" notice that not only is the prophet a 2 hand source he is a third hand source. Even if the prophet was sincere the Man of God should have been weary, for even the devil comes as an angel of light. So even if the prophet was truthful and honest.. the Man of God should have known better.

So if the prophet was sent by God to pass information to the man of god then he should have ignored him?

By that logic all of us who have never communicated with God directly are correct in our skepticism of 2nd-100th hand accounts written in the bible.

Which is why in his admonishment the Lord speaking through the prophet said "Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD" (Hebrew and KJV)

He thought he was listening to a prophet of God. It was a genuine mistake, not deliberate disobedience.

He took what at best would have been third person account that contradicted with the first hand account he had from God's mouth.

As the old testament was supposedly the word of god then according to you Jews were right to reject Jesus as his account was second hand. The people who never met Jesus needed to rely on 3rd, 4th, 5th accounts etc.

As for why God doesn't speak to everyone like this Man of God, is because it would kill us. Not the words our actions.

False. God chose to murder this man. God's words to him were not the reason for his death. The lion sent by God to kill him was.

When God speaks the person listens.

Which is why it would be such a logical approach.

There is no maybe or right after I get some star bucks. It's God speaks you obey.

Exactly. People would listen!

And if you don't obey well you get killed by a lion.

Why? People disobey God's rules every day but he does not murder them with lions. Why if he told everyone the truth would he feel the need to murder people with lions?

Even those living in the uk? Haha! Would the lions he created remain here after mailing the unrighteous to death or would he make them disappear?

As you can tell there isn't enough people with that kind of obedience. There are a lot of people who even if God existed they don't want to hear his voice. And there are a bunch of people that if heard his voice still wouldn't believe. and ect..., all kinds of people that amounts to God speaks to people he wants to talk to who will do what he says who are open to listening to God.

Let's be realistic. If God spoke to everyone directly the numbers of righteous Christians would significantly increase. People would be stupid to believe in other religions or be atheists if the Christian god spoke to them directly. I doubt any more than 0. 1% of the world's population would be non Christians. Obviously they would not all be righteous but at least they would know the truth a
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2016 5:09:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/7/2016 9:12:02 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
16 The man of God said, "I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: "You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.""

18 The old prophet answered, "I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: "Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water."" (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, "This is what the Lord says: "You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.""

23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, "It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him."

27 The prophet said to his sons, "Saddle the donkey for me," and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, "Alas, my brother!"

31 After burying him, he said to his sons, "When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true."

33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

A few problems here. Why did the old prophet want to find the man of god? Why did the old prophet lie? What motivated him to deceive the man of god? Why did God forbid the man from eating or drinking?

But the main thing here is why did God use a lion to murder the man who had been deceived by another prophet? As the evil man was a prophet surely the man God murdered was right to trust his word that God allowed him to eat?

If anyone deserved to be killed by a lion it would have been the old prophet who lied. It seems strange why a god with supposedly perfect morality would choose to carry out an unjust murder.

The first man heard God. Instead of trusting God he followed the lies of another man.

But the man was also a prophet? He claimed to have the word of god. Would he also be not trusting God by refusing to believe that a prophet chosen by God would be telling the truth?

It's absurd to consider it possible a prophet would be motivated to lie. The man deceived acted in the most rational way possible. He would have thought refusing to listen to a prophet sent by God would have serious consequences.

The man to blame got away with his immoral behaviour. The innocent man was mauled to death by a lion.

What makes you think Christianity has any credibility when such absurd stories are included in its holy book?

As for the rest it is esoteric

Why would God make it esoteric?

What would be the point?

Okay I'll try this again.

The first Guy (The Man of God) the one who gave the warning to the king, HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD. And HEARD himself God say "Don't drink or eat or go back"

Before I continue do you understand that point? He heard with his ears or in his head GOD saying don't eat or drink.

Yes.

So the first God had FIRST HAND instructions from God.

You mean the first man I assume?

Okay so the second part is people lie, even prophets of God. The second guy not only lied but his "words from God" were 2nd hand. And contrary to the First Hand instructions the man had previously received.

Why would God choose a deceitful evil man as a prophet?
You're assuming that a non deceitful man existed.....simply a loaded question.

What are you on about? Some nonsensical rubbish that every man is deceitful? Your fellow Christian in this thread here is using the excuse that the old man is a false prophet of another religion!

So you think first hand instructions from God are much better than second hand instructions. I agree. It's a shame god has failed to provide first hand information to people for 1, 900 years. If he provided everyone with first hand information then the world would be 99% Christian. Still as Christianity often used prophets to pass on second hand messages through prophets the man mauled to death by a lion didn't do anything wrong. Should he have ignored a prophet?
You have no idea how everyone would act if they actually got first hand instructions from God. This is simply a non sequitur.
SO if given a choice between believing instructions you get straight from the mouth of God, and believing someone who says they have a message from God... you should choose the instructions you got right fr

But the man was an actual prophet. The man assumed God instructed him to deliver this information. It's hard to see what would motivate a prophet to go to such great effort to deceive another prophet. The man made the logical choice. He probably thought God would punish him if he ignored a prophet of god.
He probably thought.???....wow knowing what someone probably though isn't really an assertion as much as it's completely ignorant to claim what another person probably thought.

So you think that the man of god intentionally went against the word of god?

It was only due to the influence of the old prophet the man of god acted against the initial word of god because the old prophet claimed that the LORD had sent him to deliver fresh instructions!

He was deceived! He clearly had no intention of going against God's word! He was clearly trying to follow God's instructions!
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2016 8:11:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 5:01:08 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/7/2016 3:37:32 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/7/2016 6:54:36 AM, Chloe8 wrote:

The old man was a prophet. But it doesn't say he was a prophet of God. He lived in Judah and could have been a prophet like Balaam. The people in the Bible are not flat story characters. They are real people. They have good gifts and bad intentions and all kind of other complex personalities. So you can cease and desist with saying the old man was a prophet of God. Even in his admonishment of the Man of God, he says "your God".

It does not call the old man a false prophet. If he was not a prophet of the Christian god it would be stated. It gives the reader the clear impression that the old man was a prophet of the Christian god. The admission by you that false prophets existed in the bible is further evidence that the words of supposedly real prophets are really just their own words or the words of other humans.

It doesn't have to say false prophet. But if he were a prophet of God it would have said so.


God doesn't always mean Yahweh or Big G God. It's use refers to any entity worshiped as having power and authority. The inflection of capitol G or lower case G is added by English translators. but the Hebrew word is the same.

Of course. Humanity has invented thousands of God's over the years. If the man in question was a false prophet as you claim then the bible would have linked him to Satan or separated him from Yahweh in some way. It would not give false prophets the title of prophet.

First I was talking about being aware of a translation custom when trying to decipher Biblical scripture. I have asked repeatedly if you would read the Bible, you still refuse to but think you can copy and paste attacks on them.

As for the bible address and labeling people prophets your assumption is completely wrong. Quote " false prophet as you claim then the bible would have linked him to Satan or separated him from Yahweh in some way. It would not give false prophets the title of prophet. " I even already presented the tale of Balaam. A non-Israelite called a prophet and was a man wicked and against the Jewish people. A false prophet is one that speaks things that are not from God. But not every person who hears God is a Prophet of God.

That's what I am addressing. The old man was not a Prophet of God. Tho he had prophetic vision from God.


The man of God that was deceived.. The prophet said, "and an angel spoke to me by the word of the LORD,

Here he claims to be a Christian prophet. I'm not aware of any other gods worshipped at the time referred to as the LORD. This verse refutes all your claims about the man not claiming to be a prophet of Yahweh.

NO it doesn't. The old man is not saying he is a prophet of LORD. He says he has a message spoken to him from an angel that said he came from the LORD.

Prophets of God heard the LORD, and do as he commands.

This is the very verse that demonstrates what the First man did wrong. The man of God heard the LORD command him don't eat or drink. And here someone says they got a message from an angel that came from God. This is hearsay, third party message contrary to what the man heard straight from God's mouth.


saying" notice that not only is the prophet a 2 hand source he is a third hand source. Even if the prophet was sincere the Man of God should have been weary, for even the devil comes as an angel of light. So even if the prophet was truthful and honest.. the Man of God should have known better.

So if the prophet was sent by God to pass information to the man of god then he should have ignored him?

God spoke directly to the first man. If God was going to nullify and contradict his first statement God would come with as much authority as the original message came.

This isn't a complicated understanding. it doesn't rely on any theological apologists. If you were in the Army and a General says go to that town don't eat or drink. And a man you meet on the road says "another soldier came and told me the General says you can eat and drink now"... What would a smart soldier do? He would continue to obey the General's order.


By that logic all of us who have never communicated with God directly are correct in our skepticism of 2nd-100th hand accounts written in the bible.

If you communicate with God directly have at it.


Which is why in his admonishment the Lord speaking through the prophet said "Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD" (Hebrew and KJV)

He thought he was listening to a prophet of God. It was a genuine mistake, not deliberate disobedience.

No he didn't think the man was a prophet of God. You don't understand what the terms mean.

And yes he should have known better.


He took what at best would have been third person account that contradicted with the first hand account he had from God's mouth.

As the old testament was supposedly the word of god then according to you Jews were right to reject Jesus as his account was second hand. The people who never met Jesus needed to rely on 3rd, 4th, 5th accounts etc.

And did you land on the moon? Yeah not everything we accept can be first hand. I'm sorry reality isn't ran like a day care for you.


As for why God doesn't speak to everyone like this Man of God, is because it would kill us. Not the words our actions.

False. God chose to murder this man. God's words to him were not the reason for his death. The lion sent by God to kill him was.

If God spoke to a human. and in return that human didn't obey. That human would suffer up to including death. Most human's are ignorant of God and probably for their own benefit.


When God speaks the person listens.

Which is why it would be such a logical approach.

There is no maybe or right after I get some star bucks. It's God speaks you obey.

Exactly. People would listen!

And if you don't obey well you get killed by a lion.

Why? People disobey God's rules every day but he does not murder them with lions. Why if he told everyone the truth would he feel the need to murder people with lions?

The wages of sin are Death. The question would be why did God use such a miraculous death with this man. It was an example, and recorded as such.


Even those living in the uk? Haha! Would the lions he created remain here after mailing the unrighteous to death or would he make them disappear?

As you can tell there isn't enough people with that kind of obedience. There are a lot of people who even if God existed they don't want to hear his voice. And there are a bunch of people that if heard his voice still wouldn't believe. and ect..., all kinds of people that amounts to God speaks to people he wants to talk to who will do what he says who are open to listening to God.

Let's be realistic. If God spoke to everyone directly the numbers of righteous Christians would significantly increase. People would be stupid to believe in other religions or be atheists if the Christian god spoke to them directly. I doubt any more than 0. 1%

I see the hate you have. You are like bulpoop and others. Even if God spoke to you, you would run to death and disobedience that day.