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Creationism is not required for theism

KthulhuHimself
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5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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5/8/2016 6:31:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Yeah, but in that case why would god bother with evolution instead of just creating everything at once?

(Agnostic and evolution supporter, but playing devils advocate)
Meh!
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/8/2016 7:24:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:31:25 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Yeah, but in that case why would god bother with evolution instead of just creating everything at once?

(Agnostic and evolution supporter, but playing devils advocate)

In this case, you'd have to assume that god likes being ambiguous, isn't very clever, or just odesn't exist (theists usually choose the first option in order to not change their views).
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/8/2016 11:50:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Theism is not required
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
janesix
Posts: 3,465
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5/8/2016 8:22:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Why? it's just about as likely as the universe exploding into being from nothing, or chemicals accidentally arranging themselves into living beings.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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5/8/2016 8:56:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 8:22:11 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Why? it's just about as likely as the universe exploding into being from nothing, or chemicals accidentally arranging themselves into living beings.

And how do you know that? What method did you use to determine the probability of any of this since you apparently already managed to compare them?
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/8/2016 11:13:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

The Pope himself has said it.

The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not "a magician with a magic wand"
http://www.independent.co.uk...
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 8:38:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 8:56:52 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/8/2016 8:22:11 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Why? it's just about as likely as the universe exploding into being from nothing, or chemicals accidentally arranging themselves into living beings.

And how do you know that? What method did you use to determine the probability of any of this since you apparently already managed to compare them?

I have a feeling that the bible was somehow involved.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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5/9/2016 9:11:01 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:31:25 AM, Axonly wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Yeah, but in that case why would god bother with evolution instead of just creating everything at once?

(Agnostic and evolution supporter, but playing devils advocate)

Why is one better than the other?
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/9/2016 10:04:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 11:13:47 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

The Pope himself has said it.

The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not "a magician with a magic wand"
http://www.independent.co.uk...

Real Christians do not recognize the Pope's authority. Their Bible even says to call no man "father" (Pope!) like that.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 10:38:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Scriptural creationism is however required for true faith. After all, credit where it is due.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 10:46:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

P. S.

If read properly with your brain switched on, it is impossible to argue that there is anything in the creation account which is against what science has shown in recent time.

True it gives very few detail, but what it does give are completely accurate.

For instance, Genesis 1 gives us no idea who long creation took, it simply divides it into 1 simple statement about the creation of the whole of the universe, including the earth sun moon and stars, followed by the preparation of the earth for life, and the creation of that life divided into 6 periods of unspecified length which it chooses to call "days" for no specific reason.

Despite one obvious mistranslation, doubtless made in ignorance, the precise order of creation as shown fits in 100% with scientific evidence.

There is in fact absolutely no rational, demonstrable, reason to doubt it especially in the light of current evidence.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,866
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5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Stephen Hawking from: A Brief History of Time

"In fact, if one considers the possible constants and laws that could have emerged, the odds against a universe that has produced life like ours are immense."

"Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that separates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, that even now, 10 thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate? If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in 100 thousand million million, the universe would have collapsed before it ever reached its present size."

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life ... For example, if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life."
So much for people having no reason for creation....the odds that the universe could accidentally "have" these preconditions is rather astronomical.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.

Stephen Hawking from: A Brief History of Time

"In fact, if one considers the possible constants and laws that could have emerged, the odds against a universe that has produced life like ours are immense."

"Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that separates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, that even now, 10 thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate? If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in 100 thousand million million, the universe would have collapsed before it ever reached its present size."

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life ... For example, if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life."
So much for people having no reason for creation....the odds that the universe could accidentally "have" these preconditions is rather astronomical.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 11:40:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 10:46:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

P. S.

If read properly with your brain switched on, it is impossible to argue that there is anything in the creation account which is against what science has shown in recent time.

True it gives very few detail, but what it does give are completely accurate.

Am I to assume that there is a firmament of water in the sky? Science does not state that.
For instance, Genesis 1 gives us no idea who long creation took, it simply divides it into 1 simple statement about the creation of the whole of the universe, including the earth sun moon and stars, followed by the preparation of the earth for life, and the creation of that life divided into 6 periods of unspecified length which it chooses to call "days" for no specific reason.

Despite one obvious mistranslation, doubtless made in ignorance, the precise order of creation as shown fits in 100% with scientific evidence.

Not one bit. The first thing in the universe was an opaque mix of fundamental particles, with no light in it whatsoever. The bible claims that the first thing that existed in the universe was light. It also claims that the land was separated from the water BEFORE the stars and moon came into existence, which is a blatant mistake.
There is in fact absolutely no rational, demonstrable, reason to doubt it especially in the light of current evidence.

As I've shown above, no.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 11:44:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Stephen Hawking from: A Brief History of Time

"In fact, if one considers the possible constants and laws that could have emerged, the odds against a universe that has produced life like ours are immense."

"Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that separates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, that even now, 10 thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate? If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in 100 thousand million million, the universe would have collapsed before it ever reached its present size."

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life ... For example, if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life."
So much for people having no reason for creation....the odds that the universe could accidentally "have" these preconditions is rather astronomical.

*Facepalm* What I said in the original post is that people shouldn't believe in creationism, because they can still believe that "god" directed evolution, etc., without suspending their intuition of how "unlikely" the universe forming on its own is.

In other words, you can simply say "god made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen, and guided it so that the preconditions were correct.", you don't need to believe in that ridiculous bronze-age sophistry.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 1:20:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Elaborate what is your definition, then.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Really? Show me the evidence.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 1:25:58 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:40:16 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 10:46:25 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

P. S.

If read properly with your brain switched on, it is impossible to argue that there is anything in the creation account which is against what science has shown in recent time.

True it gives very few detail, but what it does give are completely accurate.

Am I to assume that there is a firmament of water in the sky? Science does not state that.

Not now. That is where the flood water came from, or most of it at least.

However I follow Astrobio magazine, NASA's own publication, on Facebook and they said that not only do they believe there was such a mantle but that it may well be in progress of being replaced.

Of course that is only a suggestion the evidence appears to eb giving them, not yet final proof.

For instance, Genesis 1 gives us no idea who long creation took, it simply divides it into 1 simple statement about the creation of the whole of the universe, including the earth sun moon and stars, followed by the preparation of the earth for life, and the creation of that life divided into 6 periods of unspecified length which it chooses to call "days" for no specific reason.

Despite one obvious mistranslation, doubtless made in ignorance, the precise order of creation as shown fits in 100% with scientific evidence.

Not one bit. The first thing in the universe was an opaque mix of fundamental particles, with no light in it whatsoever. The bible claims that the first thing that existed in the universe was light. It also claims that the land was separated from the water BEFORE the stars and moon came into existence, which is a blatant mistake.

Creation doesn't deny that.

The first thing that Jehovah would have had to create would be the basic elements, even before he drew them together in the order he wanted them to create the mixtures and compounds from which everything is made.

Jehovah does nothing instantly. He builds things, even plans and ideas, slowly and carefully and develops them carefully, a bit at a time.

Think about it.
he promised the Messiah to the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, but it still took 4,000 years to carefully build the human line he was to be born into.

If he took 4,000 years to do that, and as it will turn out another 3,000 years to bring all it's advantages to bear, why would he not carefully take thousands, even millions or billions of years to create the universe?

No it does not. since they are a part of the "heavens", in fact they are the "heavens", they would have been created before verse 2 even let alone verse 14.

I did mention an obvious mistranslation. Verse 14 is it, because it only fits in with the rest of the text if you translate it as "made visible" not "made" and that too fits the evidence.

People latch onto verse 14 without bothering to think about if it can even be true according to the text let alone the evidence.

Why?

because it tells the what they want to believe, true or not.
There is in fact absolutely no rational, demonstrable, reason to doubt it especially in the light of current evidence.

As I've shown above, no.

Like so many people, you read what you want to find in an account and stop there. You do not question your own findings to make sure they are right.

That is always a fatal mistake, but especially when dealing with scripture.

Genesis 1, despite only giving us a few details, stands up to honest scrutiny as a bare, but accurate account.

Not only that it was written by men who could not possibly know the information it contains, about 4,000 years before we were able to confirm it.

That marks out out as being the directly inspired account of the creator himself or one of his angelic observers, likely his only begotten son.

If nothing else proves the Bible to be the word of God himself, that does, beyond any reasonable doubt.

Accept the truth of that, or continue to hide from it, but you cannot change it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 1:34:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:20:33 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Elaborate what is your definition, then.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Really? Show me the evidence.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.

There is neither time nor space to reproduce years of study here, and anyway you need to prove it to yourself for it to have any value, just as I did.

However I found the evidence long before the internet was in public use, it should be comparatively easy for you now, if you really want to be 100% sure of what is true.

Of course if you wish to remain complacent that too is your choice.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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5/9/2016 1:52:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:25:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Not only that it was written by men who could not possibly know the information it contains, about 4,000 years before we were able to confirm it.
Eye witnesses?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 2:31:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:52:13 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:25:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Not only that it was written by men who could not possibly know the information it contains, about 4,000 years before we were able to confirm it.
Eye witnesses?

Yup, Jehovah, his only begotten son, and myriads of Angels, who one day you will find are very real indeed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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5/9/2016 2:37:14 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 2:31:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:52:13 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:25:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Not only that it was written by men who could not possibly know the information it contains, about 4,000 years before we were able to confirm it.
Eye witnesses?

Yup, Jehovah, his only begotten son, and myriads of Angels, who one day you will find are very real indeed.
So which one wrote the story?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 3:01:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 1:34:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:20:33 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Elaborate what is your definition, then.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Really? Show me the evidence.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.

There is neither time nor space to reproduce years of study here, and anyway you need to prove it to yourself for it to have any value, just as I did.

However I found the evidence long before the internet was in public use, it should be comparatively easy for you now, if you really want to be 100% sure of what is true.

I've searched every possible source, yet have found nothing of value.
Of course if you wish to remain complacent that too is your choice.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/9/2016 3:07:29 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 2:31:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:52:13 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:25:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Not only that it was written by men who could not possibly know the information it contains, about 4,000 years before we were able to confirm it.
Eye witnesses?

Yup, Jehovah, his only begotten son, and myriads of Angels, who one day you will find are very real indeed.

Not scared of your fairy tales. That's basically an implied Pascal's Wager! You have nothing but an empty threat of eternal damnation.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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5/9/2016 3:21:36 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/8/2016 8:22:11 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.

Why? it's just about as likely as the universe exploding into being from nothing, or chemicals accidentally arranging themselves into living beings.

Think of it this way: you have a deck of cards. If you shuffle them enough times, whether this is one time or 8.0658175e+67 times, at some point they will be sorted in numerical order with black cards in front and red in back. This is not evidence for an intelligent shuffler, it is simply probability. In an infinite number of universes (as proposed by Stephen Hawking) a limitless number of planets exist, with a limitless number of these able to support life, there is a 100% chance that life will form in at least one. With a limitless number of planets with life on them, there is at least one with intelligent life such as ours. Again, this is not evidence for an intelligent designer, but simply a concept of probability. It may seem improbable to our finite minds, but life by chance is quite viable.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/9/2016 3:29:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 3:01:31 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:34:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:20:33 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Elaborate what is your definition, then.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Really? Show me the evidence.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.

There is neither time nor space to reproduce years of study here, and anyway you need to prove it to yourself for it to have any value, just as I did.

However I found the evidence long before the internet was in public use, it should be comparatively easy for you now, if you really want to be 100% sure of what is true.

I've searched every possible source, yet have found nothing of value.
Of course if you wish to remain complacent that too is your choice.

Lol, you haven't lived long enough to search every possible source.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/9/2016 3:31:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 3:29:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 3:01:31 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:34:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:20:33 PM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 1:08:58 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:46:21 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:36:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:25:21 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 5/8/2016 6:24:56 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
Just saying. You can believe that this imaginary "god" made the big bang, evolution, etc. happen. The creation model is an outdated sophistry in which no one should believe at this day and age.
Good to see there are still people who tell others what they should believe.

Well since there is only one thing we should believe - the truth - there should be no need for any to be told.

The problem is that to most people they would rather believe what they want to be true than what is.

The very definition of theism.

No, but it is the definition of what most people choose to believe theism encompasses.

It certainly isn't the definition of my theism.

Elaborate what is your definition, then.
Never the less, there is, and can be, only one truth and it up to each one of us to make sure it is that truth we are believing.

You say that so sure that the one you've chosen is the correct one.

It is. I have proven that beyond possible doubt. I have destruction tested it as scripture says we must.

Really? Show me the evidence.
Jesus and the Apostles were well aware that, in this time especially few would really care.

There is neither time nor space to reproduce years of study here, and anyway you need to prove it to yourself for it to have any value, just as I did.

However I found the evidence long before the internet was in public use, it should be comparatively easy for you now, if you really want to be 100% sure of what is true.

I've searched every possible source, yet have found nothing of value.
Of course if you wish to remain complacent that too is your choice.

Lol, you haven't lived long enough to search every possible source.

If there was substantial evidence for the bible's validity, theists would have been shouting it from the rooftops. They clearly aren't, meaning that such evidence doesn't exist.