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Devil's advocate thread

Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chaosism
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5/9/2016 6:37:44 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the Truth: God exists. ;-)

Corrected. :)
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 6:38:56 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:37:44 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the Truth: God exists. ;-)

Corrected. :)

Lol, thanks!
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chaosism
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5/9/2016 7:25:52 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:38:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:37:44 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the Truth: God exists. ;-)

Corrected. :)

Lol, thanks!

No problem! Did you have any specific intentions for this thread? SNP1 created one of these some time ago, and it didn't really go anywhere, unfortunately.
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 7:42:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 7:25:52 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:38:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:37:44 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the Truth: God exists. ;-)

Corrected. :)

Lol, thanks!

No problem! Did you have any specific intentions for this thread? SNP1 created one of these some time ago, and it didn't really go anywhere, unfortunately.

I thought we might have those interested represent a view contrary to their own position. I think many rebuttals by atheists and theists are not well thought out (I'm no exception). Jumping into a different point of view and legitimately trying to defend it may get some out of their rut.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
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5/9/2016 8:46:57 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Sorry, I find it impossible to defend a point of view that has no factual basis. I am not capable of lying to myself even enough to pretend that I believe.
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
janesix
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5/9/2016 8:57:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.

Exactly.
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 9:00:02 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 8:57:17 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.

Exactly.

Lol, did you give up?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
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5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?
janesix
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5/9/2016 9:09:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:00:02 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:57:17 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.

Exactly.

Yes I give up. It's too hard to tell if people are saying the opposite of what they believe:)

Lol, did you give up?
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 9:13:16 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:09:23 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:00:02 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:57:17 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.

Exactly.

Yes I give up. It's too hard to tell if people are saying the opposite of what they believe:)

Lol, did you give up?

Sorry, Jane. I put the DA on there hoping that would make it a little easier to tell. Also, for what its worth, I would have answered the heart, eye, and brain did not come about unguided...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
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5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.

To that end, I'd like to know...

Who lost this truth?
Who can corroborate that they ever had one?
How long had they had it?
When did they last see it?
What were they doing with it prior to losing it?
What measures had they taken to find it again?
Had anyone sighted it before your discovery?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?
Skepticalone
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5/9/2016 9:40:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.

To that end, I'd like to know...

Who lost this truth?
Who can corroborate that they ever had one?
How long had they had it?
When did they last see it?
What were they doing with it prior to losing it?
What measures had they taken to find it again?
Had anyone sighted it before your discovery?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?

Hmmm, perhaps I'll go with, "I've seen the light!!" instead of, "I've found the truth"...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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5/9/2016 9:42:24 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:40:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.

To that end, I'd like to know...

Who lost this truth?
Who can corroborate that they ever had one?
How long had they had it?
When did they last see it?
What were they doing with it prior to losing it?
What measures had they taken to find it again?
Had anyone sighted it before your discovery?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?

Hmmm, perhaps I'll go with, "I've seen the light!!" instead of, "I've found the truth"...

'Found' is often synonymous with discovered, such as finding the cure for polio so it's not altogether wrong to say you've found (discovered) the truth. It was not lost but not yet within the realm of your knowledge.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/9/2016 9:46:20 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:42:24 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:40:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.

To that end, I'd like to know...

Who lost this truth?
Who can corroborate that they ever had one?
How long had they had it?
When did they last see it?
What were they doing with it prior to losing it?
What measures had they taken to find it again?
Had anyone sighted it before your discovery?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?

Hmmm, perhaps I'll go with, "I've seen the light!!" instead of, "I've found the truth"...

'Found' is often synonymous with discovered, such as finding the cure for polio so it's not altogether wrong to say you've found (discovered) the truth. It was not lost but not yet within the realm of your knowledge.

Agreed, but I think Ruv was playing around more than anything. ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/9/2016 9:54:42 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 8:55:33 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 8:15:27 PM, janesix wrote:
I have found the Truth: Everything is accidental and there is no purpose to the Universe.

DA: How could the human heart, eye, or brain come about accidentally? Clearly, these could not come to be unguided.

I think we should address what Design looks like. It's easy to see a iPhone or T.V. and say ha "designed". But there is a history of technological advances. There were town phones that used large coils and acid to transmit by wire voice communication. And these earlier models of a phone look nothing like an iPhone.

There have been small incremental changes that have brought us the Plasma screen HD T.V. Cable from the black and white cathode tube UHF televisions. ((Ha funny tv's got wired and phones got wireless))

These incremental changes are from refined technologies that are encouraged and funded by military, government, economic pressures.

It's not just that a technology is new. It has to succeed where other technologies are failing. And we see this with some innovations that just don't improve on what is currently available. They don't catch on.

Once we understand that we can see why Biologist say Nature appears "designed". It certainly does appear so because the 4 chamber heart of humans have less sophisticated analogs in other animals. Animals that according to fossil record have existed prior to mankind.

And just like with Design, Evolution succumbing to the pressures of survival and selective breeding, have made incremental changes from the earliest designs to the latest one's we have now in the human body.

Now in contrast, Human designed stuff doesn't need to work with the old parts. Or keep the old parts around. An iphone doesn't have left over bits of a rotary phone hidden inside. As technology got better Engineers and Designers, just replaced the old part with the new.

But nature is not manufacturing like human designers. We see with the evidence of vestigial organs, non-coding DNA, and the inefficiency of some organs, that Evolution was selecting based on available body plans, information.

Actually the body plans and information that didn't survive the pressure of survival or add to the appeal in mating died out. And some of the successful patterns carried along the bad plans and vestigial parts.

Real Designed items like a tv or iphone, don't have parts from an ancient predecessor.

Another important distinction is that as you can tell Evolution generates new body plans, it is not purpose driven design. There is no intelligent force suggesting what function the public wants. Evolution is the natural unguided process of wiping plans out. It's rather miraculous anything survives.

Actually we have had mass extinctions and we know that sometimes, nearly everything dies.
Mhykiel
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5/9/2016 10:05:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.

Well as you just said "Life as we know it"

And Life on planet Earth can not live, practically anywhere else. humans need space suits to survive the moon, mars, or anywhere else we can go to.

So the question is: Did we grow to live here, or was here design for us to grow in?

An environment in which you could walk around naked and sustain yourself in indefinitely does not exist on Earth. Most places on Earth will Kill you from exposure alone.

Even in the most hospitable places to mankind, requires avoiding dangers in that environment. Like other predators, poisonous plants, cold nights, noon sun.

It's easy to forget how hard it is to survive in this world when we have been relying on a man made artificial world for so long. We build our caves, Freeze our catches, wash vegetation from the other side of the world.

Evolution and Science suggests we have developed, adapting to the harsh reality of finding food and not becoming it.

And that view accounts for more of the facts than if the world was designed for us.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/9/2016 11:15:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:46:20 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:42:24 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:40:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.
To that end, I'd like to know...
Who lost this truth?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?
Hmmm, perhaps I'll go with, "I've seen the light!!" instead of, "I've found the truth"...
'Found' is often synonymous with discovered, such as finding the cure for polio so it's not altogether wrong to say you've found (discovered) the truth. It was not lost but not yet within the realm of your knowledge.
Agreed, but I think Ruv was playing around more than anything. ;-)

Yes I was, but it was play built on a core of genuine epistemological and ethical concern. The quality of our knowledge is never better than the independence, accountability and transparency by which it is acquired. When people say they've 'found' 'the' truth, it's legitimate to ask how they found it, what else they tried, what makes them think it truth, and how they'd know if it were false, non-unique or not absolute.

Those questions are never satisfactorily answered by religious belief and consequently religion claims a great deal of exclusive, unaccountable, permanent authority over others on the mere hope that its thought isn't ignorant, misguided, self-serving, cruel, unjust, deluded and horribly wrong.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/9/2016 11:30:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

And? So what? Now prove that it is the same God as the "God of the Bible".
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/10/2016 12:25:54 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:30:09 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

And? So what? Now prove that it is the same God as the "God of the Bible".

Wait a minute!! I didn't say I found the Christian god!! Also, it seems like you believe a god can be found due to your lack of incredulity at any god other than Yahweh. Is that a concession? ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/10/2016 12:33:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/10/2016 12:25:54 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:30:09 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

And? So what? Now prove that it is the same God as the "God of the Bible".

Wait a minute!! I didn't say I found the Christian god!! Also, it seems like you believe a god can be found due to your lack of incredulity at any god other than Yahweh. Is that a concession? ;-)

Of course God exists. I'm God.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/10/2016 12:41:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/10/2016 12:33:47 AM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/10/2016 12:25:54 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 11:30:09 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

And? So what? Now prove that it is the same God as the "God of the Bible".

Wait a minute!! I didn't say I found the Christian god!! Also, it seems like you believe a god can be found due to your lack of incredulity at any god other than Yahweh. Is that a concession? ;-)

Of course God exists. I'm God.

Hahaha!
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dee-em
Posts: 6,490
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5/10/2016 12:46:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.

So God = advanced aliens?

(Ignoring the puddle and hole fallacy).
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/10/2016 12:50:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 11:15:05 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:46:20 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:42:24 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:40:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:23:47 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)
Skep, to claim to have found the truth, I think you must first establish that a truth ever existed, and that it has been lost.
To that end, I'd like to know...
Who lost this truth?
Where did you find it, and how do you think it got there?
What were you doing when you located it?
What condition is it in?
Has anyone found other truths that might be the lost one?
How can you be sure that this is actually the truth someone lost, and not something else, you've mistaken for their lost truth?
Hmmm, perhaps I'll go with, "I've seen the light!!" instead of, "I've found the truth"...
'Found' is often synonymous with discovered, such as finding the cure for polio so it's not altogether wrong to say you've found (discovered) the truth. It was not lost but not yet within the realm of your knowledge.
Agreed, but I think Ruv was playing around more than anything. ;-)

Yes I was, but it was play built on a core of genuine epistemological and ethical concern. The quality of our knowledge is never better than the independence, accountability and transparency by which it is acquired. When people say they've 'found' 'the' truth, it's legitimate to ask how they found it, what else they tried, what makes them think it truth, and how they'd know if it were false, non-unique or not absolute.

Those questions are never satisfactorily answered by religious belief and consequently religion claims a great deal of exclusive, unaccountable, permanent authority over others on the mere hope that its thought isn't ignorant, misguided, self-serving, cruel, unjust, deluded and horribly wrong.

Hmmm, that's gonna be tough to rebut...

DA: Well, to be fair, Ruv, I've not advocated any religion (that would be man-made anyway, right?) or even that my god is interested in humanity. So, it is not clear to me that your objection is relevant.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/10/2016 12:53:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/10/2016 12:46:37 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.

So God = advanced aliens?

(Ignoring the puddle and hole fallacy).

Haha, well, I think I remember Mhykiel being fond of the teleological argument, so I was hoping to catch him off guard. ;-)

(I don't think my plan worked too well!)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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5/10/2016 1:29:53 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/9/2016 10:05:07 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.

Well as you just said "Life as we know it"

And Life on planet Earth can not live, practically anywhere else. humans need space suits to survive the moon, mars, or anywhere else we can go to.

So the question is: Did we grow to live here, or was here design for us to grow in?

An environment in which you could walk around naked and sustain yourself in indefinitely does not exist on Earth. Most places on Earth will Kill you from exposure alone.

Even in the most hospitable places to mankind, requires avoiding dangers in that environment. Like other predators, poisonous plants, cold nights, noon sun.

It's easy to forget how hard it is to survive in this world when we have been relying on a man made artificial world for so long. We build our caves, Freeze our catches, wash vegetation from the other side of the world.

Evolution and Science suggests we have developed, adapting to the harsh reality of finding food and not becoming it.

And that view accounts for more of the facts than if the world was designed for us.

DA: First, design is not synonymous with perfect, so the fact that the Earth is not perfect is no argument against design. Secondly, I've not discounted evolution and science. I find it reasonable that God might have used evolution to shape life to the environment and also the environment to future life (photosynthetic microbes providing the Earth's early oxygen) So, in ways that count, design may have played a crucial role in life as we know it.
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Mhykiel
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5/10/2016 1:50:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/10/2016 1:29:53 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 10:05:07 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:10:27 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/9/2016 9:05:03 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/9/2016 6:11:23 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I have found the truth: God exists. ;-)

What reasoning do you have for asserting so?

DA: Only life as we know it could live naturally on this planet. We know of no other planet that supports life as we know it naturally. Clearly, this environment was designed specifically for us.

Well as you just said "Life as we know it"

And Life on planet Earth can not live, practically anywhere else. humans need space suits to survive the moon, mars, or anywhere else we can go to.

So the question is: Did we grow to live here, or was here design for us to grow in?

An environment in which you could walk around naked and sustain yourself in indefinitely does not exist on Earth. Most places on Earth will Kill you from exposure alone.

Even in the most hospitable places to mankind, requires avoiding dangers in that environment. Like other predators, poisonous plants, cold nights, noon sun.

It's easy to forget how hard it is to survive in this world when we have been relying on a man made artificial world for so long. We build our caves, Freeze our catches, wash vegetation from the other side of the world.

Evolution and Science suggests we have developed, adapting to the harsh reality of finding food and not becoming it.

And that view accounts for more of the facts than if the world was designed for us.

DA: First, design is not synonymous with perfect, so the fact that the Earth is not perfect is no argument against design. Secondly, I've not discounted evolution and science. I find it reasonable that God might have used evolution to shape life to the environment and also the environment to future life (photosynthetic microbes providing the Earth's early oxygen) So, in ways that count, design may have played a crucial role in life as we know it.

What would the distinction be between A God ran evolution, or Evolution preceding through natural random events?

Are you saying in hindsight all is going to God's plan?