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More powerful than God?

Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/11/2016 3:32:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
there r things God cant do. he can do anying in the sense of "Godly" things. can God kill himself? no bcz he is eternal.
Never fart near dog
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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5/11/2016 3:57:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 3:32:17 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
there r things God cant do. he can do anying in the sense of "Godly" things. can God kill himself? no bcz he is eternal.

So that would mean God is not omnipotent and the Bible is incorrect.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/11/2016 5:37:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 3:57:54 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
At 5/11/2016 3:32:17 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
there r things God cant do. he can do anying in the sense of "Godly" things. can God kill himself? no bcz he is eternal.


So that would mean God is not omnipotent and the Bible is incorrect.

sorry for not using the right words. God can do anything but wont do anything. for example God can lie its in his power but he wont do it bcz God is just honest... having the power to do it doesnt mean he gonna do it.
Never fart near dog
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

This is the problem with most atheists. God is not a being. God is being itself.

And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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5/11/2016 6:15:23 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

This is the problem with most atheists. God is not a being. God is being itself.

And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

Two things. If God is not a being, why does it speak and act like one in holy Christian writ?

Second, the very concept of 'omnipotence' is incoherent. Questions like 'Can God create a rock so big that he could not lift it?' demonstrate this. An omnipotent being should be able to do anything yet he is limited by his own omnipotence.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/11/2016 6:31:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 6:15:23 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

This is the problem with most atheists. God is not a being. God is being itself.

And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

Two things. If God is not a being, why does it speak and act like one in holy Christian writ?

Because we understand God based on our experience. We cannot actually comprehend life in eternity, or the sheer being of God. Our understanding of God is limited by our personal limitations. It is like my dog. He understood us to be some form of super-dog. He interacted and viewed us according to his frame of reference. Likewise our understanding of God is limited by our fallen nature.

Second, the very concept of 'omnipotence' is incoherent. Questions like 'Can God create a rock so big that he could not lift it?' demonstrate this. An omnipotent being should be able to do anything yet he is limited by his own omnipotence.

Omnipotence is the ability to do whatsoever he desires. All of nature operates according to his will.

Now to give a snide answer to a non-serious question. Jesus was God, he fell numerous times under the weight of the cross. If a large piece of wood is too heavy then there would be rocks he could not lift. And yet God can do anything by his will alone. So there were rocks that he both simultaneously could and could not lift.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,072
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5/12/2016 2:47:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

Satan hates you... He hates all men because we are made in the likeness of God!
All Satan can do is hate.... He cannot love, he has already been judged what little love he might have had, has been removed!

God does all things perfectly he is all powerful he is ONE!!

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other.

Redfordnutt God is love..... Love is: Giving of self for another!!! You cannot love yourself it would not be love it would be selfishness.

Love must be shared.. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father perfectly!! God is Perfect!

John 10:30
I and the Father are one."

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
uncung
Posts: 3,454
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5/12/2016 2:56:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

It is not possible at all since the God is the most powerful one.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/12/2016 1:18:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

No it is not.

Everything Jehovah created was created from his own energy, in various altered states. That means that to create someone as powerful as he is would diminish him effectively out of existence.

When you consider the amount of energy that is apparent in this universe and then realise that for all the energy it cost him he is not diminished noticeably.

It is impossible to even begin to imagine the sort of power Jehovah embodies. No wonder scripture says that "no-one may see my face and live".
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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5/12/2016 2:03:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 1:18:45 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Everything Jehovah created was created from his own energy, in various altered states
Who says?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
uncung
Posts: 3,454
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5/12/2016 3:34:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 2:47:50 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

Satan hates you... He hates all men because we are made in the likeness of God!
All Satan can do is hate.... He cannot love, he has already been judged what little love he might have had, has been removed!

God does all things perfectly he is all powerful he is ONE!!

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other.

Redfordnutt God is love..... Love is: Giving of self for another!!! You cannot love yourself it would not be love it would be selfishness.

Love must be shared.. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father perfectly!! God is Perfect!

John 10:30
I and the Father are one."

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

What about you answer the Question instead?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,072
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5/12/2016 3:42:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 3:34:14 PM, uncung wrote:
At 5/12/2016 2:47:50 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

Satan hates you... He hates all men because we are made in the likeness of God!
All Satan can do is hate.... He cannot love, he has already been judged what little love he might have had, has been removed!

God does all things perfectly he is all powerful he is ONE!!

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other.

Redfordnutt God is love..... Love is: Giving of self for another!!! You cannot love yourself it would not be love it would be selfishness.

Love must be shared.. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father perfectly!! God is Perfect!

John 10:30
I and the Father are one."

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

What about you answer the Question instead?

uncung I hope all is well!
I thought I did!!!
Dogknox
Posts: 5,072
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5/12/2016 3:48:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 3:34:14 PM, uncung wrote:
At 5/12/2016 2:47:50 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

Satan hates you... He hates all men because we are made in the likeness of God!
All Satan can do is hate.... He cannot love, he has already been judged what little love he might have had, has been removed!

God does all things perfectly he is all powerful he is ONE!!

1 Kings 8:60
so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other.

Redfordnutt God is love..... Love is: Giving of self for another!!! You cannot love yourself it would not be love it would be selfishness.

Love must be shared.. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father perfectly!! God is Perfect!

John 10:30
I and the Father are one."

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

What about you answer the Question instead?

God is one!! He is three persons ONE God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit! God is LOVE The Father loves the Son the Son loves the Father!
Can't love yourself... God is love he loves the Word made flesh.. Jesus!

God is most powerful and most complex already!!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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5/12/2016 4:21:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 6:31:45 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 6:15:23 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

This is the problem with most atheists. God is not a being. God is being itself.

And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

Two things. If God is not a being, why does it speak and act like one in holy Christian writ?

Because we understand God based on our experience. We cannot actually comprehend life in eternity, or the sheer being of God. Our understanding of God is limited by our personal limitations. It is like my dog. He understood us to be some form of super-dog. He interacted and viewed us according to his frame of reference. Likewise our understanding of God is limited by our fallen nature.

So we're just advanced dogs. Good to know how you feel about how your loving God feels about you.

Second, the very concept of 'omnipotence' is incoherent. Questions like 'Can God create a rock so big that he could not lift it?' demonstrate this. An omnipotent being should be able to do anything yet he is limited by his own omnipotence.

Omnipotence is the ability to do whatsoever he desires. All of nature operates according to his will.

Yet his is limited by that omnipotence thus is not omnipotent after all. It's an incoherent concept. You did not really demonstrate otherwise here.

Now to give a snide answer to a non-serious question. Jesus was God, he fell numerous times under the weight of the cross. If a large piece of wood is too heavy then there would be rocks he could not lift. And yet God can do anything by his will alone. So there were rocks that he both simultaneously could and could not lift.

Sophistry. Can and cannot are mutually exclusive. In your story your God chose to limit himself to what a human body was capable of and not utilize his power. That does not demonstrate that he could have easily carried the cross and not died from being tormented. Totally different circumstances.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
uncung
Posts: 3,454
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5/12/2016 4:24:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
What about you answer the Question instead?

God is one!! He is three persons ONE God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit! God is LOVE The Father loves the Son the Son loves the Father!
Can't love yourself... God is love he loves the Word made flesh.. Jesus!

God is most powerful and most complex already!!

Then it is not One God whatsoever if they were in three persons.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/12/2016 4:40:22 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:31:12 PM, bulproof wrote:
More powerful than God?
Everything.

Sorry Bull, the One Ring is the only thing less powerful than god.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/12/2016 4:48:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

He is the highest singularity. Nothing can exist without Him, so no.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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5/12/2016 4:50:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:48:15 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

He is the highest singularity. Nothing can exist without Him, so no.
He didn't create the paradigm in which he exists.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/12/2016 4:57:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:21:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/11/2016 6:31:45 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 6:15:23 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 2:28:12 PM, Redfordnutt wrote:
To all the believers of an omnipotent God, is it possible for God to create a more powerful and complex being than he himself?

This is the problem with most atheists. God is not a being. God is being itself.

And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

Two things. If God is not a being, why does it speak and act like one in holy Christian writ?

Because we understand God based on our experience. We cannot actually comprehend life in eternity, or the sheer being of God. Our understanding of God is limited by our personal limitations. It is like my dog. He understood us to be some form of super-dog. He interacted and viewed us according to his frame of reference. Likewise our understanding of God is limited by our fallen nature.

So we're just advanced dogs. Good to know how you feel about how your loving God feels about you.

Actually that would be your random evolution theory viewpoint.

I love when atheists act intentionally obtuse - it completely discredits them to serious readers.

Second, the very concept of 'omnipotence' is incoherent. Questions like 'Can God create a rock so big that he could not lift it?' demonstrate this. An omnipotent being should be able to do anything yet he is limited by his own omnipotence.

Omnipotence is the ability to do whatsoever he desires. All of nature operates according to his will.

Yet his is limited by that omnipotence thus is not omnipotent after all. It's an incoherent concept. You did not really demonstrate otherwise here.

Everything that exists is an act of pure will on the part of God. Matter being finite (by design) is always inferior to the spiritual. All of time and space is in the present to God. Something greater than the source is logically impossible. Something more perfect that perfect makes no sense.

Now to give a snide answer to a non-serious question. Jesus was God, he fell numerous times under the weight of the cross. If a large piece of wood is too heavy then there would be rocks he could not lift. And yet God can do anything by his will alone. So there were rocks that he both simultaneously could and could not lift.

Sophistry. Can and cannot are mutually exclusive. In your story your God chose to limit himself to what a human body was capable of and not utilize his power. That does not demonstrate that he could have easily carried the cross and not died from being tormented. Totally different circumstances.

No duh. It is a dumb question to begin with.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/12/2016 5:06:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!

Once again you are looking at God as a being instead of the act of being itself.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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5/12/2016 5:07:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
More powerful than the toothfairy?
Everything.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/12/2016 5:07:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 5:06:38 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!

Once again you are looking at God as a being instead of the act of being itself.

Idiot. I never ever said "god". But ok, if "god" can't make himself more than infinite, then there's something he cannot do, so he is not omnipotent. Omnipotence contradicts itself.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/12/2016 5:10:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 5:07:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:06:38 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!

Once again you are looking at God as a being instead of the act of being itself.

Idiot. I never ever said "god". But ok, if "god" can't make himself more than infinite, then there's something he cannot do, so he is not omnipotent. Omnipotence contradicts itself.

lol. - look up the definition of infinite.

There are many things God cannot do - I'll give you a hint: he cannot contradict his own will.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/12/2016 5:12:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 5:06:38 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!

Once again you are looking at God as a being instead of the act of being itself.

Jehovah is a being, the supreme being.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/12/2016 5:13:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 5:10:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:07:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:06:38 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 5:05:48 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:57:39 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:23:37 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/11/2016 5:49:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
And one cannot get more powerful than omnipotent.

"One is omnipotent"
"There is something one cannot do"

does not compute

You cannot make something larger than infinite.

If there's something you cannot do, then you are not omnipotent in the first place!

Once again you are looking at God as a being instead of the act of being itself.

Idiot. I never ever said "god". But ok, if "god" can't make himself more than infinite, then there's something he cannot do, so he is not omnipotent. Omnipotence contradicts itself.

lol. - look up the definition of infinite.

There are many things God cannot do - I'll give you a hint: he cannot contradict his own will.

Yeah? I looked up the definition of infinite. And you can actually have numbers greater than infinite. You can have countably infinite and uncountably infinite. You can have the real numbers, the power set of the reals, the power set of the power set of the reals, etc. But you're probably lost already.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."