Total Posts:61|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Honest Inquiry

ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Seagull
Posts: 88
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:01:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Perhaps its just a knee jerk reaction to, because you dont believe you are going to hell.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:06:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 10:01:58 PM, Seagull wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Perhaps its just a knee jerk reaction to, because you dont believe you are going to hell.

I still don't think that merits such hostility. Also, most honest Christians (or theists) don't carry a "I'm better than you" persona. The reaction does seem to be knee-jerk, though.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Seagull
Posts: 88
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:19:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 10:06:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/11/2016 10:01:58 PM, Seagull wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Perhaps its just a knee jerk reaction to, because you dont believe you are going to hell.

I still don't think that merits such hostility. Also, most honest Christians (or theists) don't carry a "I'm better than you" persona. The reaction does seem to be knee-jerk, though.

I think the knee jerk reaction is on every side.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:20:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 10:19:32 PM, Seagull wrote:
At 5/11/2016 10:06:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/11/2016 10:01:58 PM, Seagull wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Perhaps its just a knee jerk reaction to, because you dont believe you are going to hell.

I still don't think that merits such hostility. Also, most honest Christians (or theists) don't carry a "I'm better than you" persona. The reaction does seem to be knee-jerk, though.

I think the knee jerk reaction is on every side.

Unfortunately, that's probably too true.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:24:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

It's very common. If you're on reddit, check out /r/atheism. The people there are just like the atheists in the religion forum, except there are no theists to diversify the place. It's extremely circle-jerky, and, hence, the religion bashing is huge there. Religious discussions on the internet, in general, are not very civil. There are isolated pockets where this is not the case, but overall, the trend is very widespread.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 10:29:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 10:24:56 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

It's very common. If you're on reddit, check out /r/atheism. The people there are just like the atheists in the religion forum, except there are no theists to diversify the place. It's extremely circle-jerky, and, hence, the religion bashing is huge there. Religious discussions on the internet, in general, are not very civil. There are isolated pockets where this is not the case, but overall, the trend is very widespread.

Yeah. I can see how that would be the case. I just wish it were otherwise, I suppose. It cuts down on the legitimacy of meaningful discussions when one (or both) side(s) resort to bashing rather than civil discourse.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 11:14:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

It is an emulation of the current atheist heroes Hitchens, etc... It gives the opportunity for a bunch of virtual high fives.

That and theists tend to be more conservative and are more easily pushed off centre by rude and brash commentary.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 11:17:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 11:14:51 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

It is an emulation of the current atheist heroes Hitchens, etc... It gives the opportunity for a bunch of virtual high fives.

Lol, I see.

That and theists tend to be more conservative and are more easily pushed off centre by rude and brash commentary.

This also makes sense.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 11:42:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Most likely, the reason you may believe that is because you either have not spent much time reading threads here or you're probably a Christian yourself and believe the dishonest, hateful and totally atrocious behavior of Christians here is perfectly acceptable.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/11/2016 11:50:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 11:42:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Most likely, the reason you may believe that is because you either have not spent much time reading threads here or you're probably a Christian yourself and believe the dishonest, hateful and totally atrocious behavior of Christians here is perfectly acceptable.

I already admitted I haven't read much in the religion forum. I am a Christian, but I don't condone the hostility from either side. I am just lost as to why it exists in the first place. Why can people not be civil with other people?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 12:00:01 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 11:50:58 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/11/2016 11:42:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Most likely, the reason you may believe that is because you either have not spent much time reading threads here or you're probably a Christian yourself and believe the dishonest, hateful and totally atrocious behavior of Christians here is perfectly acceptable.

I already admitted I haven't read much in the religion forum. I am a Christian, but I don't condone the hostility from either side. I am just lost as to why it exists in the first place. Why can people not be civil with other people?

Because Christianity is not civil and neither are Christians. You yourself are not civil, in another thread, you think men should dominate women, how is that civil?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Cole, have you ever heard mentioned a god that wasn't god of something?

I expect you haven't.

Gods aren't just helpful spirits: benign principles inspiring people to be kinder, wiser, braver, more just.

They're paragons, authorities, supreme powers, and demand their adherents build grand temples, defer to clergy, forge hegemonies, vilify rivals, order one anothers' lives, to submit and obey, to subject their conscience to received doctrines and not question how they were derived.

And unfortunately many adherents (not all), obey these demands, imposing these received orders on the lives of others without being sure they're coming from a god, that the god is good -- or indeed that there are any gods at all.

It's rude and disrespectful when adherents do that. Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.

Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.

I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 3:00:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 12:00:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/11/2016 11:50:58 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/11/2016 11:42:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Most likely, the reason you may believe that is because you either have not spent much time reading threads here or you're probably a Christian yourself and believe the dishonest, hateful and totally atrocious behavior of Christians here is perfectly acceptable.

I already admitted I haven't read much in the religion forum. I am a Christian, but I don't condone the hostility from either side. I am just lost as to why it exists in the first place. Why can people not be civil with other people?

Because Christianity is not civil and neither are Christians. You yourself are not civil, in another thread, you think men should dominate women, how is that civil?

I don't see how you have any right to call out someone else for being uncivil when you're not being civil either. Regardless, men "dominating" women is a crude representation of what is actually being discussed in the other thread. As I (and brontoraptor) have shown, there is likewise instruction to be fair. That's irrelevant to what I'm asking in this thread, though. Hopefully you understand. :)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 3:02:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Cole, have you ever heard mentioned a god that wasn't god of something?

I expect you haven't.

Gods aren't just helpful spirits: benign principles inspiring people to be kinder, wiser, braver, more just.

They're paragons, authorities, supreme powers, and demand their adherents build grand temples, defer to clergy, forge hegemonies, vilify rivals, order one anothers' lives, to submit and obey, to subject their conscience to received doctrines and not question how they were derived.

And unfortunately many adherents (not all), obey these demands, imposing these received orders on the lives of others without being sure they're coming from a god, that the god is good -- or indeed that there are any gods at all.

It's rude and disrespectful when adherents do that. Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.

Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.

I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.

I understand what you've said.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 3:47:41 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 3:02:18 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Cole, have you ever heard mentioned a god that wasn't god of something?

I expect you haven't.

Gods aren't just helpful spirits: benign principles inspiring people to be kinder, wiser, braver, more just.

They're paragons, authorities, supreme powers, and demand their adherents build grand temples, defer to clergy, forge hegemonies, vilify rivals, order one anothers' lives, to submit and obey, to subject their conscience to received doctrines and not question how they were derived.

And unfortunately many adherents (not all), obey these demands, imposing these received orders on the lives of others without being sure they're coming from a god, that the god is good -- or indeed that there are any gods at all.

It's rude and disrespectful when adherents do that. Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.

Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.

I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.

I understand what you've said.
And the unspoken corollary is:
"and I reject it out of hand Ruv"
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
mrsatan
Posts: 418
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 4:02:48 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

I try to remain civil when I post on here, although my posts tend to be few and far between. There are some theists on this forum who I think bring it upon themselves, and some atheists who go overboard with it. Overall, I would say its mostly a flame war from both sides, because those who aren't hurling insults are also the less active ones.

Of course, I'm a strong agnostic when it comes to the subject of God, so I just tend to laugh at the rare gem that is a clever burn, and move on. There are simply too many possibilities and too much conjecture to truly know anything about the foundation of existence. So much so that nothing can be adequately supported or contested, and so it just devolves to meaningless chatter (although it can be enjoyable chatter, given the inescapable quantity of possibilities) or the flame war it so often does.

It does drive me nuts when people say atheism is a religion, though. There are atheistic religions, just as there are theistic religions. However, theism itself is not a religion, nor is its counterpart. So when I see that bs, the first thought that comes to mind tends to be along the lines of, "If God does exist, he definitely failed when he made you...".... But, pointless flame war and all that... I don't typically share that thought.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
tejretics
Posts: 6,084
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 4:15:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 10:06:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I still don't think that merits such hostility. Also, most honest Christians (or theists) don't carry a "I'm better than you" persona. The reaction does seem to be knee-jerk, though.

lol, neither do most atheists... but the atheists who do frequent the Religion forum are probably going to be "New Atheists" or the like, so they are very condescending. The same with people who do believe in God in the Religion forum.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 4:24:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 3:02:18 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.
Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.
I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.
I understand what you've said.

At 5/12/2016 3:47:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
And the unspoken corollary is:
"and I reject it out of hand Ruv"

Indeed. Your disrespect is noted, Cole.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 5:03:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Because they unashamedly exhibit their astonishingly absurd beliefs, while on the other hand telling us that our scientifically substantiated facts are ridiculous.

Also, the expeditious flinging of blatant logical fallacies encourages the skeptics to treat said people as idiots.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 5:05:43 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

I must also admit that, once you step out from the brainwashing of religion, you find that you've just discovered the greatest source of comedy since George Carlin.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 5:06:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 11:50:58 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/11/2016 11:42:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

Most likely, the reason you may believe that is because you either have not spent much time reading threads here or you're probably a Christian yourself and believe the dishonest, hateful and totally atrocious behavior of Christians here is perfectly acceptable.

I already admitted I haven't read much in the religion forum. I am a Christian, but I don't condone the hostility from either side. I am just lost as to why it exists in the first place. Why can people not be civil with other people?

Tree hugger
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Nivek
Posts: 242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 6:32:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
If you're referring to the internet, it's probably the norm. All of them are communicating in the same way. I'd say just let it be and move on. They sound a lot like undergrads like myself who are often prone to knee-jerking concepts that we don't understand. I've clashed a lot with Anthropology majors and that was mainly because I initially saw things only through the lens of astronomy and I seem to clash a lot with psych majors as well.

Most conversations in real life are like "Don't listen, he just said something so racist" or if it's the other way "Well isn't that racist, I have X and Y and I won't have rights in that country, don't you think that's racist" and this doesn't seem to be any different in the internet. Perhaps eloquent one liners are one way to teach us to be professional but that would probably take a considerable amount of time. Professors aren't helping either, it's either they passively look at the screen or just dodge around the question to save face. In addition, if debates do erupt to a volcanic level, they'll just criticize us for being immature. Not a single side is willing to compromise from the look of it. We should just give it time.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 1:06:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:24:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/12/2016 3:02:18 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.
Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.
I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.
I understand what you've said.

At 5/12/2016 3:47:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
And the unspoken corollary is:
"and I reject it out of hand Ruv"

Indeed. Your disrespect is noted, Cole.

I was not in any way being disrespectful. I'm sorry if it appeared that way. I was about to go to sleep, and didn't have much time. That's why my response was expedited. I understand how some religious practices can be that way, but it's not a pervasive interpretation of all religion. That's why my response wasn't specific.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 1:07:28 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 4:15:28 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/11/2016 10:06:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I still don't think that merits such hostility. Also, most honest Christians (or theists) don't carry a "I'm better than you" persona. The reaction does seem to be knee-jerk, though.

lol, neither do most atheists... but the atheists who do frequent the Religion forum are probably going to be "New Atheists" or the like, so they are very condescending. The same with people who do believe in God in the Religion forum.

That makes sense. I wasn't trying to condemn atheists as a whole -- just noting what I'd seen in my brief skim.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 1:07:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

So that they can make themselves feel better, and smarter.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 2:24:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 1:06:08 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/12/2016 4:24:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/12/2016 3:02:18 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 5/12/2016 12:18:46 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
Why are skeptics so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?
Religious paternalism deprives people of justice, dignity and autonomy, and religion is singularly successful in its ability to convince good people that cruelty and injustice are good.
Humans have some standard responses to abuses of power, ranging from ridicule, satire, parody and contempt to criticisms of character and outright condemnation.
I can't speak for every irreligious member here, but that might be some of what you're seeing.
I understand what you've said.

At 5/12/2016 3:47:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
And the unspoken corollary is:
"and I reject it out of hand Ruv"

Indeed. Your disrespect is noted, Cole.

I was not in any way being disrespectful. I'm sorry if it appeared that way. I was about to go to sleep, and didn't have much time. That's why my response was expedited. I understand how some religious practices can be that way, but it's not a pervasive interpretation of all religion. That's why my response wasn't specific.

Pathetic excuse and terribly dishonest.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 2:43:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

I cant speak for other non-believers but I think there is a difference between someone who simply says they believe in a higher power and someone who believes in specific religious dogma and myths such as Creationism.

If a scientologist was insisting to you that they had proof the evil overlord Xenu sent thetans to earth 75 million years ago, is there any way to debate with them without sounding demeaning? Its not as easy as one might think.
Fly
Posts: 2,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/12/2016 3:30:34 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/11/2016 9:51:25 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
I've not visited the religion forum much during my tenure on the site, in large part because of the seemingly popular skeptical beliefs (or the lack thereof). However, I've recently skimmed a bit, and was surprised at what I found. My question is this:

Why are skeptics (and this can be atheists, agnostics, any number of beliefs skeptical of a God) so demeaning and rude to those who do believe in a Higher Power?

It really is quite fascinating how our individual perspectives color our perceptions of the same things...

Do you have concrete examples of what you are claiming? Because I observe much the opposite of what you have observed-- much of the unpleasantness expressed by skeptics here is quite often merely the frustration over their time being largely wasted by theists who express their contempt for skeptics via dishonest inquiry masquerading as honest inquiry.

For example, if theists just wanted pleasant, thought provoking discussion with other theists, the thread topics would be much different-- questions such as: "Can someone explain the Trinity for me?"; "What constitutes blaspheming the Holy Spirit?"; "Can salvation be lost?"; "Does the Bible support free will?"; etc.

Instead, we see countless threads aimed AT atheists, and not out of genuine curiosity or a desire to learn about atheism, but as a rhetorical weapon. We see theists telling us what atheism means, rather than the other way around. We see threads posing as honest inquiries to atheists, but they turn out to be a Trojan Horse for expressing judgment and disrespect against atheists, as I previously mentioned. Then, if that were not enough, one sees a few theists complaining about the allegedly intrusive atheist presence on this forum-- concurrent with half the threads being addressed to atheists.

And if one wants to see Christians showing utter disrespect for a belief in "a Higher Power" that rivals that of the most vocal anti theists, one need look no further than Christian threads on Islam.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz