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Dogs and wolves in Young Earth Creationism

Jovian
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5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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5/13/2016 1:52:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

But you don't leave to scientists to determine the probable timeframe.

Double standards much?
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/13/2016 2:02:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Everything was created with them already domesticated. And all the evidence of a longer past was built into the creation. If it looks billions of years old, it's because it was created that way! /s
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/13/2016 2:10:03 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 1:52:53 AM, Redfordnutt wrote:
But you don't leave to scientists to determine the probable timeframe.

Double standards much?

You're an idiot. I accept science, not the science fiction of Evolution. I accept scientific conclusions not spun to fit popular Atheist beliefs.
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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5/13/2016 2:10:42 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 2:02:09 AM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Everything was created with them already domesticated. And all the evidence of a longer past was built into the creation. If it looks billions of years old, it's because it was created that way! /s

LOL, I find unsubstantiated claims to be hilarious, good job buddy.
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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5/13/2016 2:14:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 2:10:03 AM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:52:53 AM, Redfordnutt wrote:
But you don't leave to scientists to determine the probable timeframe.

Double standards much?

You're an idiot. I accept science, not the science fiction of Evolution. I accept scientific conclusions not spun to fit popular Atheist beliefs.

You can reject facts all you like, they will still be facts. Evolution is obviously apparent to any intellectually honest mind. I think you mean an Atheist belief, not beliefs. Or Do you not know what atheism is?
Jovian
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5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,176
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5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.
Jovian
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5/13/2016 12:08:33 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Alright, but no one has said that dogs were domesticated in that time span. Unless you have some kind of scientific data which says they were. So do not skip this the topic.
tarantula
Posts: 858
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5/13/2016 12:30:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Only the gullible would be YECs, imo.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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5/13/2016 8:49:53 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

<sarcasm>The FSM (or choose your YEC god) set up the DNA like that specifically to fool people, because that's what he wants them to believe, so as good faithful people we should rebel against what the creator clearly wants us to believe... Because, um it would be heresy to do what the creator wants us to do? </sarcasm>
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janesix
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5/13/2016 8:59:03 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Dogs ARE domesticated wolves. Are you disputing that fact?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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5/13/2016 9:07:33 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 2:02:09 AM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Everything was created with them already domesticated. And all the evidence of a longer past was built into the creation. If it looks billions of years old, it's because it was created that way! /s

That's a good defence for your position, it's the only logical way YEC theory can be credible. The inevitable problem you face with this position though Is why would God intentionally trick people? Why wouldn't he make all the evidence suggest the truth?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

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user13579
Posts: 822
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5/13/2016 9:14:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 9:07:33 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 5/13/2016 2:02:09 AM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Everything was created with them already domesticated. And all the evidence of a longer past was built into the creation. If it looks billions of years old, it's because it was created that way! /s

That's a good defence for your position, it's the only logical way YEC theory can be credible. The inevitable problem you face with this position though Is why would God intentionally trick people? Why wouldn't he make all the evidence suggest the truth?

It's not my position. It's sarcasm. I just know how to make it unfalsifiable.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/13/2016 10:26:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 8:59:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Dogs ARE domesticated wolves. Are you disputing that fact?

They were probably just doing some semantic deflection in order to buy time.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/13/2016 10:45:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

Which verse of the Bible or scientifical data could support this claim?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/13/2016 10:48:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:45:56 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

Which verse of the Bible or scientifical data could support this claim?

According to evolution whales came from dogs.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/13/2016 10:53:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:48:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:45:56 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

Which verse of the Bible or scientifical data could support this claim?

According to evolution whales came from dogs.

Your concession is noted. Also, where do you get this scientifical claim from? The Landover Baptist?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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5/14/2016 1:18:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:53:18 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:48:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:45:56 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

Which verse of the Bible or scientifical data could support this claim?

According to evolution whales came from dogs.

Your concession is noted. Also, where do you get this scientifical claim from? The Landover Baptist?

Nope. That comes from evolutionists. Google it.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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5/14/2016 3:17:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.
Dyslexic?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/14/2016 12:00:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 1:18:46 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:53:18 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:48:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:45:56 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

Which verse of the Bible or scientifical data could support this claim?

According to evolution whales came from dogs.

Your concession is noted. Also, where do you get this scientifical claim from? The Landover Baptist?

Nope. That comes from evolutionists. Google it.

Yep I did, nothing there about whales being canine creatures. Now don't skip your burden of proof, what do you base "Dogs always existed" on?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/14/2016 12:10:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

For once an interesting link, gritty. Who is going to tell the YEC's that man began domesticating wolves 27, 000 years before Earth was created?
Jovian
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5/14/2016 5:22:04 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 12:10:26 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

For once an interesting link, gritty. Who is going to tell the YEC's that man began domesticating wolves 27, 000 years before Earth was created?

That was my link, not GrittyRaptor's.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,176
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5/14/2016 7:01:53 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 8:59:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Dogs ARE domesticated wolves. Are you disputing that fact?

Dogs are not wolves, wolves are not dogs.
Are you disputing that fact?

As far as dogs being domesticated wolves, well, as I said, dogs are not wolves.
They are the same species, just different breeds.
The breeds know as dogs undoubtedly developed from those wolves who were docile, and mixed well with humans.
This does not mean that dogs are wolves.

By way of comparison, we do not say Innuits are Africans, if that helps.
janesix
Posts: 3,465
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5/14/2016 7:06:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 7:01:53 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 8:59:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Dogs ARE domesticated wolves. Are you disputing that fact?

Dogs are not wolves, wolves are not dogs.
Are you disputing that fact?

As far as dogs being domesticated wolves, well, as I said, dogs are not wolves.
They are the same species, just different breeds.
The breeds know as dogs undoubtedly developed from those wolves who were docile, and mixed well with humans.
This does not mean that dogs are wolves.

By way of comparison, we do not say Innuits are Africans, if that helps.

You are right. Dogs did not descend from wolves. They share a common ancestor.

http://news.discovery.com...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/14/2016 7:35:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:22:04 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/14/2016 12:10:26 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:38:18 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:54:46 AM, Jovian wrote:
Science right now says that some wolves were domesticated, and thus by definition became dogs, approximately 33 000 years ago*. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, as YEC says, then when exactly is it supposed that wolves were domesticated? Is it plausible for wolves to have been domesticated in only 2-3000 years (since there are surely old sources telling of domesticated dogs too)? Or is there a Biblical account saying wolves and dogs were created separately in the first place?

* http://news.discovery.com...

Dogs always existed.

For once an interesting link, gritty. Who is going to tell the YEC's that man began domesticating wolves 27, 000 years before Earth was created?

That was my link, not GrittyRaptor's.

My apologies, Jove. I thought it seemed out of his league.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/15/2016 10:02:22 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 7:01:53 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 8:59:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/13/2016 11:00:07 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 5/13/2016 10:02:18 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 1:46:22 AM, Rukado wrote:
I leave it to science to determine which species share common ancestors (outside the assumption that all species share a common ancestor). But, it does seem certain that dogs and wolves share a common ancestor.

Dogs could have been domesticated in a fraction of 2-3000 years.

Is there any scientifical data which could strengthen wolves becoming tame in only 2-3000 years? You need to prove this.

It has been said DOGS were domesticated in 2-3000 years, not wolves.
Your request is unreasonable.

Dogs ARE domesticated wolves. Are you disputing that fact?

Dogs are not wolves, wolves are not dogs.
Are you disputing that fact?

As far as dogs being domesticated wolves, well, as I said, dogs are not wolves.
They are the same species, just different breeds.
The breeds know as dogs undoubtedly developed from those wolves who were docile, and mixed well with humans.
This does not mean that dogs are wolves.

By way of comparison, we do not say Innuits are Africans, if that helps.

You are careful in the semantics about topic, but you have no idea how to answer the problematic question of how a domesticated dog could develop from wolves in 2-3000 years?