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Why is theism always monotheistic?

Jovian
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5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?
janesix
Posts: 3,465
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5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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5/12/2016 9:19:37 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Only my God could of created it . All the other God's ain't real.
A interimensional alien could not have made the universe. Aliens are make believe.
And that last word you wrote,
Sentick. whatever mythical character a sencitict is , I'm sure you just made that up.
Jovian
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5/12/2016 11:20:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 9:19:37 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Only my God could of created it . All the other God's ain't real.
A interimensional alien could not have made the universe. Aliens are make believe.
And that last word you wrote,
Sentick. whatever mythical character a sencitict is , I'm sure you just made that up.

Yep, it's probably that bias that causes it. It's such a flawed argument to say "The universe looks like it was created, thus Protestant Christianity is the true religion."
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/12/2016 11:22:31 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).

Yeah it's true. I should had included them. But same goes there. Some of them will probably also pull a straight line from creationism to hinduism just because the Universe "looks like it was created", without at all including the possibility of monotheism.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,266
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5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

Monotheism is more logical in that there is one uncaused cause, one unmoved mover, one perfect infinite source of everything. As one moves into a scientific world you find that monotheism can be compatible with this, whereas polytheism cannot.

As for evil inter-dimensional aliens, they don't resolve creation, because they themselves must be created.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/13/2016 6:22:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it.
Indeed, and they go further. It's a single, wise, benign-yet-imperious, intolerant, punitive, Swiss Army Knife of a god that knows all and can do anything (I've no idea how they ever tested that.)

Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Yes, and even worse: suppose there were a cabal of evil interdimensional wargamers that created an inhabited universe much like ours, and elected to tell inhabitants that they were a single, benign but imperious god, and that inhabitants could have eternal life if only they'd dominate, subjugate and patronise one another in their god's name.

How could you test whether they were lying for their own amusement?
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/13/2016 6:32:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 11:22:31 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).

Yeah it's true.

No, it is not. There are many aspects of one single god.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/13/2016 7:08:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 6:32:27 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:22:31 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).

Yeah it's true.

No, it is not. There are many aspects of one single god.

Genuine question. Are all the gods of the Hindu pantheon aspects of Vishnu?
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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5/13/2016 7:22:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Its whats been trending the most in the last couple thousand years. Polytheism was more prevalent before that. Humans feel most comfortable going with the crowd.
Riwaaz_Ras
Posts: 1,046
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5/14/2016 4:05:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 7:08:17 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/13/2016 6:32:27 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:22:31 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).

Yeah it's true.

No, it is not. There are many aspects of one single god.

Genuine question. Are all the gods of the Hindu pantheon aspects of Vishnu?

'Hindu gods' are personified cosmic energies and life forces. There are allegories and symbolic meaning of everything, for example - Shiva

http://s3.scoopwhoop.com...

The third eye of Shiva symbolizes pineal gland.

The snake represents raised kundalini.

Only Vishnu has earthly avatars.
Parshuram
Ram
Krishna
Ayyappa
Kalki (yet to arrive)

Earthly avatars descend on earth with more than 13 strand DNA, they are in three conscious states simultaneously and are generally mortal.
(This is not a goodbye message. I may or may not come back after ten years.)
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/14/2016 8:03:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 4:05:55 AM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/13/2016 7:08:17 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/13/2016 6:32:27 PM, Riwaaz_Ras wrote:
At 5/12/2016 11:22:31 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/12/2016 9:01:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Hindus believe in multiple Gods. And there are a billion Hindus (at least there will be shortly).

Yeah it's true.

No, it is not. There are many aspects of one single god.

Genuine question. Are all the gods of the Hindu pantheon aspects of Vishnu?

'Hindu gods' are personified cosmic energies and life forces. There are allegories and symbolic meaning of everything, for example - Shiva

http://s3.scoopwhoop.com...

The third eye of Shiva symbolizes pineal gland.

The snake represents raised kundalini.

Only Vishnu has earthly avatars.
Parshuram
Ram
Krishna
Ayyappa
Kalki (yet to arrive)

Earthly avatars descend on earth with more than 13 strand DNA, they are in three conscious states simultaneously and are generally mortal.

Many thanks.
Osman35
Posts: 52
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5/14/2016 7:59:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Third Impossibility
The following two comparisons, which are included in other parts of the Risale-i Nur, explain this impossibility.
A wild savage entered a palace which had been built in an empty desert and completed and adorned with all the fruits of civilization. He cast an eye over its interior and saw thousands of well-proportioned and artistically fashioned objects. Out of his boorishness and lack of intelligence, he said: "No one from outside had a hand in this, one of the objects from inside must have made this palace together with all of its contents," and he started to investigate. But it did not appear possible even to his untaught intelligence that anything he had looked at could have made those things.

Later, he saw a notebook in which had been written the plan and programme of the palace"s construction, an index of its contents and the rules of its administration. For sure, the notebook too, which was without hand, eye, or implement, like the rest of the objects in the palace, was completely lacking the ability to construct and decorate the palace. But since he saw that in comparison with all the other things, the notebook was related to the whole palace by reason of its including all its theoretical laws, he was obliged to say: "There, it is this notebook that has organized, ordered and adorned the palace, and has fashioned all these objects and set them in their places." He transformed his uncouthness into ludicrous jabber.
Thus, exactly like this comparison, a boor who subscribed to Naturalist thought, which denies God, entered the palace of the universe, which is infinitely more well-ordered, more perfect and everywhere full of miraculous instances of wisdom than the palace in the comparison. Not thinking that it was the work of art of the Necessarily Existent One, who is outside the sphere of contingency, and shunning that idea, he saw a collection of the laws of divine practice and an index of dominical art, which are like a slate for writing and erasing of divine determining in the sphere of contingency, and like a constantly changing notebook for the laws of the functioning of divine power, and are extremely mistakenly and erroneously given the name "nature," and he said:

"These things require a cause and nothing else appears to have the relationship with everything that this notebook has. It is true that reason will in no way accept that this unseeing, unconscious and powerless notebook could carry out this creation, which is the work of an absolute dominicality
and requires infinite power. But since I do not recognize the Eternal Maker, the most plausible explanation is to say the notebook made it, and makes it, so I shall say that." To which we reply:

You mistaken unfortunate! Your foolishness exceeds anything imaginable! Lift your head out of the swamp of nature and look beyond yourself! See an All-Glorious Maker to whom all beings from particles to planets testify with their different tongues and to whom they point with their fingers! Behold the manifestation of the Pre-Eternal Inscriber, who fashions the palace and who writes its programme in the notebook! Study His decree, listen to the Qur"an! Be delivered from your delirious raving!
Second Comparison: A rustic bumpkin entered the bounds of a splendid palace and saw there the uniform actions of an extremely well-disciplined army carrying out its drill. He observed a battalion, a regiment and a division stand to attention, stand at ease and march, and open fire when commanded as though they were a single private. Since his rude, uncultured mind could not comprehend, so denied, that a commander had been given command by the country"s laws and by royal decree, he imagined that the soldiers were attached to one another with strings. He thought of what wonderful string it must be, and was amazed.
Later, he continued on his way till he came upon a mosque as magnificent as Aya Sophia. He entered it at the time of Friday prayer and watched the congregation of Muslims rising, bowing, prostrating and sitting at the sound of man"s voice. Since he did not understand the Shari"a, which consists of a collection of immaterial, revealed laws, nor the immaterial rules proceeding from the Lawgiver"s command, he fancied the congregation to be bound to one another by physical string, and that this wonderful string had subjected them and was making them move like puppets. Coming up with this idea, which is so ridiculous as to make the most ignorant roar with laughter, he went on his way.

Exactly like this comparison, an atheist who subscribed to materialist thought, which is denial and pure brutishness, entered the universe, which is a splendid barracks of the Monarch of Pre-Eternity and Post-Eternity for His innumerable forces, and a well-ordered mosque of that Pre-Eternal All-Worshipped One. He imagined the immaterial laws of the ordering of the universe, which proceed from the Pre-Eternal Monarch"s wisdom, each to have material and physical existence; and supposed the theoretical laws of the sovereignty of dominicality, and the rules and ordinances of the Greater Shari"a, the Shari"a of Creation, which are immaterial and exist only as knowledge, each to have external, material and physical existence. But to set up in place of divine power those laws, which proceed from the divine
attributes of knowledge and speech and only exist as knowledge, and to attribute creation to them; then to attach the name "nature" to them, and to deem force, which is merely a manifestation of dominical power, to be an independent almighty possessor of power, is a thousand times more low-fallen ignorance than the ignorance in the comparison.

I n S h o r t : The imaginary and insubstantial thing that Naturalists call nature, if it has an external reality, can at the very most be work of art; it cannot be the Artist. It is an embroidery, and cannot be the Embroiderer. It is a set of decrees; it cannot be the Issuer of the decrees. It is a body of the laws of creation, and cannot be the Lawgiver. It is but a created screen to the dignity of God, and cannot be the Creator. It is passive and created, and cannot be a Creative Maker. It is a law, not a power, and cannot possess power. It is the recipient, and cannot be the source.

...from the risale-i Nur collection
...source: risale-i nur collection
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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5/14/2016 8:57:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 7:59:56 PM, Osman35 wrote:
Third Impossibility
The following two comparisons, which are included in other parts of the Risale-i Nur, explain this impossibility.
A wild savage entered a palace which had been built in an empty desert and completed and adorned with all the fruits of civilization. He cast an eye over its interior and saw thousands of well-proportioned and artistically fashioned objects. Out of his boorishness and lack of intelligence, he said: "No one from outside had a hand in this, one of the objects from inside must have made this palace together with all of its contents," and he started to investigate. But it did not appear possible even to his untaught intelligence that anything he had looked at could have made those things.

Later, he saw a notebook in which had been written the plan and programme of the palace"s construction, an index of its contents and the rules of its administration. For sure, the notebook too, which was without hand, eye, or implement, like the rest of the objects in the palace, was completely lacking the ability to construct and decorate the palace. But since he saw that in comparison with all the other things, the notebook was related to the whole palace by reason of its including all its theoretical laws, he was obliged to say: "There, it is this notebook that has organized, ordered and adorned the palace, and has fashioned all these objects and set them in their places." He transformed his uncouthness into ludicrous jabber.
Thus, exactly like this comparison, a boor who subscribed to Naturalist thought, which denies God, entered the palace of the universe, which is infinitely more well-ordered, more perfect and everywhere full of miraculous instances of wisdom than the palace in the comparison. Not thinking that it was the work of art of the Necessarily Existent One, who is outside the sphere of contingency, and shunning that idea, he saw a collection of the laws of divine practice and an index of dominical art, which are like a slate for writing and erasing of divine determining in the sphere of contingency, and like a constantly changing notebook for the laws of the functioning of divine power, and are extremely mistakenly and erroneously given the name "nature," and he said:

"These things require a cause and nothing else appears to have the relationship with everything that this notebook has. It is true that reason will in no way accept that this unseeing, unconscious and powerless notebook could carry out this creation, which is the work of an absolute dominicality
and requires infinite power. But since I do not recognize the Eternal Maker, the most plausible explanation is to say the notebook made it, and makes it, so I shall say that." To which we reply:

You mistaken unfortunate! Your foolishness exceeds anything imaginable! Lift your head out of the swamp of nature and look beyond yourself! See an All-Glorious Maker to whom all beings from particles to planets testify with their different tongues and to whom they point with their fingers! Behold the manifestation of the Pre-Eternal Inscriber, who fashions the palace and who writes its programme in the notebook! Study His decree, listen to the Qur"an! Be delivered from your delirious raving!
Second Comparison: A rustic bumpkin entered the bounds of a splendid palace and saw there the uniform actions of an extremely well-disciplined army carrying out its drill. He observed a battalion, a regiment and a division stand to attention, stand at ease and march, and open fire when commanded as though they were a single private. Since his rude, uncultured mind could not comprehend, so denied, that a commander had been given command by the country"s laws and by royal decree, he imagined that the soldiers were attached to one another with strings. He thought of what wonderful string it must be, and was amazed.
Later, he continued on his way till he came upon a mosque as magnificent as Aya Sophia. He entered it at the time of Friday prayer and watched the congregation of Muslims rising, bowing, prostrating and sitting at the sound of man"s voice. Since he did not understand the Shari"a, which consists of a collection of immaterial, revealed laws, nor the immaterial rules proceeding from the Lawgiver"s command, he fancied the congregation to be bound to one another by physical string, and that this wonderful string had subjected them and was making them move like puppets. Coming up with this idea, which is so ridiculous as to make the most ignorant roar with laughter, he went on his way.

Exactly like this comparison, an atheist who subscribed to materialist thought, which is denial and pure brutishness, entered the universe, which is a splendid barracks of the Monarch of Pre-Eternity and Post-Eternity for His innumerable forces, and a well-ordered mosque of that Pre-Eternal All-Worshipped One. He imagined the immaterial laws of the ordering of the universe, which proceed from the Pre-Eternal Monarch"s wisdom, each to have material and physical existence; and supposed the theoretical laws of the sovereignty of dominicality, and the rules and ordinances of the Greater Shari"a, the Shari"a of Creation, which are immaterial and exist only as knowledge, each to have external, material and physical existence. But to set up in place of divine power those laws, which proceed from the divine
attributes of knowledge and speech and only exist as knowledge, and to attribute creation to them; then to attach the name "nature" to them, and to deem force, which is merely a manifestation of dominical power, to be an independent almighty possessor of power, is a thousand times more low-fallen ignorance than the ignorance in the comparison.

I n S h o r t : The imaginary and insubstantial thing that Naturalists call nature, if it has an external reality, can at the very most be work of art; it cannot be the Artist. It is an embroidery, and cannot be the Embroiderer. It is a set of decrees; it cannot be the Issuer of the decrees. It is a body of the laws of creation, and cannot be the Lawgiver. It is but a created screen to the dignity of God, and cannot be the Creator. It is passive and created, and cannot be a Creative Maker. It is a law, not a power, and cannot possess power. It is the recipient, and cannot be the source.

...from the risale-i Nur collection

Gish gallop. You need to brief your posts on this forum.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,016
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5/14/2016 10:03:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I'd say its pretty much accident of history. Hinduism apart, religion today is dominated by 'Abrahamic religions' which are all based ultimately on ancient Hebrew superstitions which came to focus on a single god, YHWH.

It is clear the Hebrew were not originally monotheists. The correct term is 'henotheism', which means the Hebrew believe in many gods, but single one out as being 'their special god'.

This was common in the ancient middle east where cities and tribes routinely had a 'patron deity' selected from the pantheon available. While the ancient Hebrew discouraged worship of gods other than YHWH the existence of other gods was accepted.

It seems the YHWHist priesthood were more 'monotheistic' than most of the Hebrew people and even than some of the Hebrew kings. Many Hebrew kings are criticised in the Bible for their dalliance with other 'foreign' gods such as Baal and Asherah (Ashera being the consort of YHWH - essentially Mrs. God).

The complete elimination of foreign gods was probably largely motivated by the desire of YHWHist priests to avoid 'watering down' Hebrew/Jewish identity (and with it their own power and influence). Thus YHWH was originally only one god among many (albeit one with a special relationship with the Hebrew) and became the "Only true god" later, probably (IMO) only during and after the Babylonian exile which ended any royal counterweight to the influence of the YHWHist priesthood.

So to summarise, theism is monotheistic (in most of the world) because it derives from a religion that evolved into monontheism from polytheistic/henotheistic origins.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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8/3/2016 11:19:02 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Human emotions are the only emotions the inventors of gods had as reference, therefore all gods have human emotions. If gods existed and were so vastly superior to we their creations then there would be no words to describe them and in fact no words to mention their existence at all.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Geogeer
Posts: 4,266
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8/3/2016 4:59:31 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Actually I was showing that it was the projection of human emotions and concepts that led to the belief in multiple gods, but that logic would dictate only one unmoved mover.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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8/3/2016 5:29:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 4:59:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Actually I was showing that it was the projection of human emotions and concepts that led to the belief in multiple gods, but that logic would dictate only one unmoved mover.

Woah, you were online last time 3 weeks ago and when I went here to wrote my missing answer to you in an old thread, you appear.

But I really don't understand you, you seemed to say a series of gods couldn't be possible since there would be fights between them.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,266
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8/3/2016 5:40:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 5:29:30 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 8/3/2016 4:59:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Actually I was showing that it was the projection of human emotions and concepts that led to the belief in multiple gods, but that logic would dictate only one unmoved mover.

Woah, you were online last time 3 weeks ago and when I went here to wrote my missing answer to you in an old thread, you appear.

Name the devil... ;-) i've been busy, and still am, but I have a few minutes at the moment...

But I really don't understand you, you seemed to say a series of gods couldn't be possible since there would be fights between them.

Polytheistic religions break down the various powers and attribute them to various gods. i.e. lightning, war, agriculture, etc... Logically all of these entities would need to be eternal for them to be truly gods... However even ancient cultures would have creation stories of their gods.

There can only be one first mover, one entity who is eternal and self complete - the very essence of being itself.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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8/3/2016 5:41:10 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

long answer u can read article islamic point of view.. http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

short answer the Quran says... 21:22
Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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8/4/2016 3:16:41 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 5:41:10 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

long answer u can read article islamic point of view.. http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

short answer the Quran says... 21:22
Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe.
That's funny, he was just one of the lesser gods in a pantheon of 360 gods before muhammad promoted him to #1.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,379
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8/4/2016 5:07:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?
I don't think it's a question of God having to be one-single-god, but a question of who (or what) is God? It's not that God has to be a single god, but is God a single god, or multiple gods?

The other side of the coin is there seems to be those that think God has to be more complicated than merely being a single God, particularly one who interacts with mere humans. There's no reason why God has to be multiple gods anymore than you have to be multiple individuals. You are not a combination of Jovian, RuvDrava, and Roderick Spode. If you introduce yourself you will give your identity as Jovian (or whatever your real name might be). If God introduces Himself to mankind, it would stand for reason that He will introduce Himself just as He really is, whether monotheistic, or polytheistic.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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8/4/2016 5:47:11 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 5:07:31 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?
I don't think it's a question of God having to be one-single-god, but a question of who (or what) is God?

So, right from the outset, I am going to assume God (probably singular for no reason I can specify) exists.

It's not that God has to be a single god, but is God a single god, or multiple gods?

I further stress that God exists dummies and we just have to establish whether he is alone or has company.

The other side of the coin is there seems to be those that think God has to be more complicated than merely being a single God, particularly one who interacts with mere humans.

'Those'. You know who I mean. Them. The clueless.

I'm going to further contend (without evidence) that God interacts with human beings. This somehow strengthens the case for him being singular though I can't say precisely how. Just trust me.

There's no reason why God has to be multiple gods anymore than you have to be multiple individuals.

This is such an astounding insight don't you think? A singular human doesn't have to be multiple individuals. It took me ages to come up with this pearl of knowledge. I hope you appreciate it people.

Furthermore, since I have already assumed God to be singular I can now reinforce the fact that he doesn't have to be multiple gods. I love that circularity. Don't you?

You are not a combination of Jovian, RuvDrava, and Roderick Spode.

Another gem of wisdom. I'm going to just keep them coming.

If you introduce yourself you will give your identity as Jovian (or whatever your real name might be).

This is just in case you introduce yourself as someone else. I'm providing a community service here. No thanks are needed.

If God introduces Himself to mankind, it would stand for reason that He will introduce Himself just as He really is, whether monotheistic, or polytheistic.

Here I return to the fact that I presuppose that God is singular. I will also throw in the assertion that he introduced himself, without having to bother with anything approaching actual evidence. At the same time I will conveniently ignore that what we call God was originally named Yahweh and that he was just one among many gods, ie. he actually was introduced (by men) in a polytheistic setting.

Okay, I think my argument stands up to any scrutiny. I believe my reasoning is impeccable. I am so proud of myself.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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8/4/2016 5:51:09 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 3:16:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/3/2016 5:41:10 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

long answer u can read article islamic point of view.. http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

short answer the Quran says... 21:22
Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah , Lord of the Throne, above what they describe.
That's funny, he was just one of the lesser gods in a pantheon of 360 gods before muhammad promoted him to #1.

poopy nothing to do with my answer
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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8/4/2016 7:33:15 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 5:51:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/4/2016 3:16:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/3/2016 5:41:10 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

long answer u can read article islamic point of view.. http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

short answer the Quran says... 21:22
Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah , they both would have been ruined.
Well the 360 that he knocked around with earlier weren't.
That's funny, he was just one of the lesser gods in a pantheon of 360 gods before muhammad promoted him to #1.

poopy nothing to do with my answer
Everything to do with it, see.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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8/4/2016 9:38:39 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 4:59:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Actually I was showing that it was the projection of human emotions and concepts that led to the belief in multiple gods, but that logic would dictate only one unmoved mover.

There is a superb logical argument for why Jehovah is the only logical God among the worlds religions. It is detailed but one example part of it is, omnipotence.

If God is omnipotent, there cannot logically exist another God, and if God is not omnipotent, what is it that makes Him God? Why does He deserve the title "God"?

Another is omniscience. If God is omniscient, another God would be indistinguishable from the other in every way. Another God would BE the first God. And the final result would be that "they" would be one God in 2 persons. And if God is not omniscient, what is it that makes Him God? Why does He deserve the title "God"?

Logical arguments can be made for each of the 5 qualities unique to God. I've always found arguments for and against God's unique nature to be most interesting.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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8/5/2016 4:34:17 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/4/2016 9:38:39 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 8/3/2016 4:59:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/3/2016 11:04:08 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 5/13/2016 4:09:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

Logic. Polytheism divides various powers or characteristics between multiple imperfect sources. The conflict within a person becomes forces of love and hate at war with each other, or rain against earth, etc... The question then becomes how do we come to have different gods with varying "powers" or authority, etc...

You are basically projecting human emotions on gods. Projecting human thinking on a god is mostly seen as illogical. Like in "God works in mysterious ways".

Actually I was showing that it was the projection of human emotions and concepts that led to the belief in multiple gods, but that logic would dictate only one unmoved mover.

There is a superb logical argument for why Jehovah is the only logical God among the worlds religions. It is detailed but one example part of it is, omnipotence.

If God is omnipotent, there cannot logically exist another God, and if God is not omnipotent, what is it that makes Him God? Why does He deserve the title "God"?

Another is omniscience. If God is omniscient, another God would be indistinguishable from the other in every way. Another God would BE the first God. And the final result would be that "they" would be one God in 2 persons. And if God is not omniscient, what is it that makes Him God? Why does He deserve the title "God"?

Logical arguments can be made for each of the 5 qualities unique to God. I've always found arguments for and against God's unique nature to be most interesting.
Claims about the qualities of any gods are made only by the believers in those gods and the creators of those gods.
Take away those man made claims and you have no gods.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,008
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8/5/2016 1:10:21 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 5/12/2016 8:48:05 PM, Jovian wrote:
Most people I've seen who said that the universe must had been created seem to exclusively tell of that there must thus be one single god who created it. Why does it need to be a single god? Why not gods? Or why not evil interdimensional alien scientists?

This is why Christians rely on the trinity of Gods. God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit.
Hinduism has one God and any manifestation of the same God.
Islam has one God, the God of Abraham and the prophets.
Only Christianity is at odds with monotheism with its trinity doctrine.