Total Posts:16|Showing Posts:1-16
Jump to topic:

A question for Muslims.

Osman35
Posts: 52
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2016 7:34:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
The Fifth: Although they did not coincide with the night of Muhammad"s (UWBP) birth, certain events that took place not long before it are also included in the irhasat. One is the War of the Elephant, which is mentioned in the Qur"an in Sura al- Fil. Abraha, the king of Abyssinia, came to destroy the Ka"ba, driving a huge elephant called Mahmudi before his forces. When they came close to Mecca, the elephant was unable to move. They could not make it move forward, and had to retreat. While retreating, a flock of birds attacked and routed them, and they fled. This extraordinary story is recorded in detail in the history books. The event was one of the proofs of Muhammad"s (UWBP) prophethood, for it occurred close in time to his birth and saved the Holy Ka"ba, his qibla, birthplace, and native land, from Abraha"s destruction.383

...from the risale-i Nur collection
...source: risale-i nur collection
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2016 7:41:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 7:34:26 PM, Osman35 wrote:
The Fifth: Although they did not coincide with the night of Muhammad"s (UWBP) birth, certain events that took place not long before it are also included in the irhasat. One is the War of the Elephant, which is mentioned in the Qur"an in Sura al- Fil. Abraha, the king of Abyssinia, came to destroy the Ka"ba, driving a huge elephant called Mahmudi before his forces. When they came close to Mecca, the elephant was unable to move. They could not make it move forward, and had to retreat. While retreating, a flock of birds attacked and routed them, and they fled. This extraordinary story is recorded in detail in the history books. The event was one of the proofs of Muhammad"s (UWBP) prophethood, for it occurred close in time to his birth and saved the Holy Ka"ba, his qibla, birthplace, and native land, from Abraha"s destruction.383

...from the risale-i Nur collection

Uuummmmm. Okay. How does that answer my question?
Osman35
Posts: 52
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2016 11:32:55 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
FIFTH POINT
You ask if in that period between prophets the forefathers of the God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) belonged to a religion and were religious.
T h e A n s w e r : There are narrations stating that they were religious, adhering to the vestiges of the religion of Abraham (Upon whom be peace),4 which, under the veils of heedlessness and spiritual darkness, persisted in certain special people. Certainly, the persons who formed the luminous chain stretching from Abraham (Upon whom be peace) and concluding in the Most Noble Messsenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) were not indifferent towards the light of the true religion and were not defeated by the darkness of unbelief. But in accordance with the verse,

Nor would We visit with Our wrath until We had sent a prophet [to give warning],(17:15)
people who live at a time between prophets will be saved. It has been stated unanimously that they will not be punished for their mistakes in secondary matters. According to Imam Shafi"i and Imam Ash"ari, even if they are deniers and do not believe in the fundamentals of belief, they will still be saved. For accountability to God is established with the sending of prophets, and when prophets are sent people become accountable by knowing about their mission. Since heedlessness and the passage of time had obscured the religions of the former prophets, they could not provide the proof for the people of that time. If the people obeyed the former religion, they will receive reward; if they did not, they will not be punished. For since it was hidden, it could not be a proof.

3 Bukhari, Bad" al-Khalq, 8; Tirmidhi, Qiyama, 60; Janna, 5; Darimi, Riqaq, 108; Musnad, ii, 345; iii, 16.
4 Nabhani, Hujjat Allah "ala"l-"Alamin, 414.

SIXTH POINT
You ask: "Were there any prophets among the forefathers of God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace)?"
T h e A n s w e r : There is no certain narration that there were any after Isma"il (Upon whom be peace). Only two prophets appeared, called Khalid b. Sinan5 and Hanzala,6 who were not his ancestors. But one of his forefathers, Ka"b b. Lu"ayy, composed the following famous and explicit poem, as though quoting scripture: "The Prophet Muhammad will suddenly appear * Giving tidings most true,"7 which resembles prophetic and miraculous utterance. Relying on both evidence and illumination, Imam-i Rabbani said: "Numerous prophets appeared in India, but some of them had no followers or only a few people, so they did not become well-known or were not called prophets."8
According to this principle of the Imam, it is possible there were prophets of this kind among the Prophet"s (UWBP) forefathers.

...from the risale-i Nur collection
...source: risale-i nur collection
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/13/2016 11:57:59 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 11:32:55 PM, Osman35 wrote:
FIFTH POINT
You ask if in that period between prophets the forefathers of the God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) belonged to a religion and were religious.
T h e A n s w e r : There are narrations stating that they were religious, adhering to the vestiges of the religion of Abraham (Upon whom be peace),4 which, under the veils of heedlessness and spiritual darkness, persisted in certain special people. Certainly, the persons who formed the luminous chain stretching from Abraham (Upon whom be peace) and concluding in the Most Noble Messsenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) were not indifferent towards the light of the true religion and were not defeated by the darkness of unbelief. But in accordance with the verse,

Nor would We visit with Our wrath until We had sent a prophet [to give warning],(17:15)
people who live at a time between prophets will be saved. It has been stated unanimously that they will not be punished for their mistakes in secondary matters. According to Imam Shafi"i and Imam Ash"ari, even if they are deniers and do not believe in the fundamentals of belief, they will still be saved. For accountability to God is established with the sending of prophets, and when prophets are sent people become accountable by knowing about their mission. Since heedlessness and the passage of time had obscured the religions of the former prophets, they could not provide the proof for the people of that time. If the people obeyed the former religion, they will receive reward; if they did not, they will not be punished. For since it was hidden, it could not be a proof.


3 Bukhari, Bad" al-Khalq, 8; Tirmidhi, Qiyama, 60; Janna, 5; Darimi, Riqaq, 108; Musnad, ii, 345; iii, 16.
4 Nabhani, Hujjat Allah "ala"l-"Alamin, 414.


SIXTH POINT
You ask: "Were there any prophets among the forefathers of God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace)?"
T h e A n s w e r : There is no certain narration that there were any after Isma"il (Upon whom be peace). Only two prophets appeared, called Khalid b. Sinan5 and Hanzala,6 who were not his ancestors. But one of his forefathers, Ka"b b. Lu"ayy, composed the following famous and explicit poem, as though quoting scripture: "The Prophet Muhammad will suddenly appear * Giving tidings most true,"7 which resembles prophetic and miraculous utterance. Relying on both evidence and illumination, Imam-i Rabbani said: "Numerous prophets appeared in India, but some of them had no followers or only a few people, so they did not become well-known or were not called prophets."8
According to this principle of the Imam, it is possible there were prophets of this kind among the Prophet"s (UWBP) forefathers.

...from the risale-i Nur collection

Are you a person or just a machine spouting from the resale-I Nur collection?
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 12:42:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Ancient name for Mecca was "Bakkah", to which the Pslams (written long before christ) makes reference to:

Pslams 84 (3-6) (King James Bible):
"Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools."
http://biblehub.com...
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 12:51:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Also, Greek Historian Diodourus Siculus, (who lived in the 1rst century), wrote of (what is implied to be) the Kaaba in isolated parts of Arabia, from one of his works, Bilbilotheca Historica he writes

"And a temple has been set up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians"

Long after Ishmael (pbuh) and prior to Muhammad (pbuh), otherwise known as the "Jahilliyyah", the Kabbah became a huge source for pilgrimage from other parts of the Arabian peninsula, mostly for idol worship by the time Muhammad (pbuh) was born.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 1:12:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Muhammed done it.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 3:28:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Kabbah was built by Adam, rebuilt by Abraham and cleaned by Prophet Muhammad.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 1:28:01 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 12:51:14 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Also, Greek Historian Diodourus Siculus, (who lived in the 1rst century), wrote of (what is implied to be) the Kaaba in isolated parts of Arabia, from one of his works, Bilbilotheca Historica he writes

"And a temple has been set up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians"

Long after Ishmael (pbuh) and prior to Muhammad (pbuh), otherwise known as the "Jahilliyyah", the Kabbah became a huge source for pilgrimage from other parts of the Arabian peninsula, mostly for idol worship by the time Muhammad (pbuh) was born.

+1
ssadi
Posts: 324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 2:45:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

1. There is no historical or archeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity.. Your link claims there is lack of evidence and lack of evidence doesn't mean something did not exist. For more information, research Argument from Ignorance logical fallacy.

2. The source you shared is a Christian source with subjective and biased information.

3. There is historical evidence that Mecca did exist before Christianity.
https://discover-the-truth.com...
Or were they created without anything being before them (or out of something different than the basic material of all creation, so that they know things others do not), or are they the creators (of themselves, so that they can maintain themselves and are free in their acts)? Or did they create the heavens and the earth (so that their sovereignty belongs to them)? No indeed. Rather, they have no certain knowledge (about creation, humankind, and the basic facts concerning them).

Quran, 52:35-36
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 2:59:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 11:57:59 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/13/2016 11:32:55 PM, Osman35 wrote:
FIFTH POINT
You ask if in that period between prophets the forefathers of the God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) belonged to a religion and were religious.
T h e A n s w e r : There are narrations stating that they were religious, adhering to the vestiges of the religion of Abraham (Upon whom be peace),4 which, under the veils of heedlessness and spiritual darkness, persisted in certain special people. Certainly, the persons who formed the luminous chain stretching from Abraham (Upon whom be peace) and concluding in the Most Noble Messsenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace) were not indifferent towards the light of the true religion and were not defeated by the darkness of unbelief. But in accordance with the verse,

Nor would We visit with Our wrath until We had sent a prophet [to give warning],(17:15)
people who live at a time between prophets will be saved. It has been stated unanimously that they will not be punished for their mistakes in secondary matters. According to Imam Shafi"i and Imam Ash"ari, even if they are deniers and do not believe in the fundamentals of belief, they will still be saved. For accountability to God is established with the sending of prophets, and when prophets are sent people become accountable by knowing about their mission. Since heedlessness and the passage of time had obscured the religions of the former prophets, they could not provide the proof for the people of that time. If the people obeyed the former religion, they will receive reward; if they did not, they will not be punished. For since it was hidden, it could not be a proof.


3 Bukhari, Bad" al-Khalq, 8; Tirmidhi, Qiyama, 60; Janna, 5; Darimi, Riqaq, 108; Musnad, ii, 345; iii, 16.
4 Nabhani, Hujjat Allah "ala"l-"Alamin, 414.


SIXTH POINT
You ask: "Were there any prophets among the forefathers of God"s Noble Messenger (Upon whom be blessings and peace)?"
T h e A n s w e r : There is no certain narration that there were any after Isma"il (Upon whom be peace). Only two prophets appeared, called Khalid b. Sinan5 and Hanzala,6 who were not his ancestors. But one of his forefathers, Ka"b b. Lu"ayy, composed the following famous and explicit poem, as though quoting scripture: "The Prophet Muhammad will suddenly appear * Giving tidings most true,"7 which resembles prophetic and miraculous utterance. Relying on both evidence and illumination, Imam-i Rabbani said: "Numerous prophets appeared in India, but some of them had no followers or only a few people, so they did not become well-known or were not called prophets."8
According to this principle of the Imam, it is possible there were prophets of this kind among the Prophet"s (UWBP) forefathers.

...from the risale-i Nur collection

Are you a person or just a machine spouting from the resale-I Nur collection?

He is the Islamic gish galloper of this site. All Abrahamic religions have a gish galloper here. Judaism has got eliyahu, and Christianity has brontoraptor as its gish galloper.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,731
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 4:49:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Response: Besides common sense, the evidence actually proves that Mecca did exist. For the evidence itself speaks of city in the Arabian Peninsula. The only argument is whether it was called Mecca at the time, yet Islam never claims it was called Mecca, nor does it matter. It could have been called Oogy Booby prior to Christianity. Either way, Islam could care less. So it is pointless from the beginning.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/14/2016 5:16:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 4:49:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Response: Besides common sense, the evidence actually proves that Mecca did exist. For the evidence itself speaks of city in the Arabian Peninsula. The only argument is whether it was called Mecca at the time, yet Islam never claims it was called Mecca, nor does it matter. It could have been called Oogy Booby prior to Christianity. Either way, Islam could care less. So it is pointless from the beginning.

What is pointless, Fati, is your inability to explain how 6 year old children can show their like of sex.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/15/2016 12:38:03 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:16:43 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/14/2016 4:49:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Response: Besides common sense, the evidence actually proves that Mecca did exist. For the evidence itself speaks of city in the Arabian Peninsula. The only argument is whether it was called Mecca at the time, yet Islam never claims it was called Mecca, nor does it matter. It could have been called Oogy Booby prior to Christianity. Either way, Islam could care less. So it is pointless from the beginning.

What is pointless, Fati, is your inability to explain how 6 year old children can show their like of sex.

Eww disgusting.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/15/2016 8:06:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:38:03 AM, uncung wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:16:43 PM, desmac wrote:
At 5/14/2016 4:49:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/13/2016 5:56:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:
How do you answer the historical and archaeological evidence that Mecca did not exist prior to Christianity?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org...

Response: Besides common sense, the evidence actually proves that Mecca did exist. For the evidence itself speaks of city in the Arabian Peninsula. The only argument is whether it was called Mecca at the time, yet Islam never claims it was called Mecca, nor does it matter. It could have been called Oogy Booby prior to Christianity. Either way, Islam could care less. So it is pointless from the beginning.

What is pointless, Fati, is your inability to explain how 6 year old children can show their like of sex.

Eww disgusting.

I couldn't agree more.