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ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 3:39:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.

Ok i understand that, but you didn't give any reason why.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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5/14/2016 3:51:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:39:30 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.

Ok i understand that, but you didn't give any reason why.
Unless the claimant can provide evidence in support of their claim then their claim warrants not even discussion.
I claim there is a black cat in a black room.
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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5/14/2016 3:53:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

I don't think any atheist seriously believes that it is impossible for a god to exist. The burden of proof rests on those who make positive claims. Ie, "the sun exists" and "unicorns exist" are both positive statements. To an atheist, a positive claim has to be substantiated before it is seen as worth believing.

The fact that most people believe in god does not shift the burden of proof. In fact, that argument is called an "appeal to the people" and is a logical fallacy. If the majority of people believed the Earth was flat, that would not make it so. (And interestingly, there was a time where the majority of people held that exact belief.)

So until we are presented with enough evidence to indicate it is more likely a god exists than not, we really have no logical reason to believe he exists.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 5:52:58 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:51:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:39:30 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.

Ok i understand that, but you didn't give any reason why.
Unless the claimant can provide evidence in support of their claim then their claim warrants not even discussion.
I claim there is a black cat in a black room.

You could still feel the cat. Or if you make a loud noise, it might meow or run away. A blind person might be even better an sensing a cat in the dark than other people.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/14/2016 5:54:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:52:58 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:51:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:39:30 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.

Ok i understand that, but you didn't give any reason why.
Unless the claimant can provide evidence in support of their claim then their claim warrants not even discussion.
I claim there is a black cat in a black room.

You could still feel the cat. Or if you make a loud noise, it might meow or run away. A blind person might be even better an sensing a cat in the dark than other people.
Awesome analogy!
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 5:59:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:53:57 AM, Cobalt wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

I don't think any atheist seriously believes that it is impossible for a god to exist. The burden of proof rests on those who make positive claims. Ie, "the sun exists" and "unicorns exist" are both positive statements. To an atheist, a positive claim has to be substantiated before it is seen as worth believing.

The fact that most people believe in god does not shift the burden of proof. In fact, that argument is called an "appeal to the people" and is a logical fallacy. If the majority of people believed the Earth was flat, that would not make it so. (And interestingly, there was a time where the majority of people held that exact belief.)

So until we are presented with enough evidence to indicate it is more likely a god exists than not, we really have no logical reason to believe he exists.

But if you think God could exist, why do you call yourself an atheist? It's such a strong word. Agnostic seems more appropriate.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/14/2016 5:59:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?
I think the OP is about the concept of God.

Who said anything about a specific god?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:00:45 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:59:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?
I think the OP is about the concept of God.

Who said anything about a specific god?

Define god for me - beautiful... Bc i know i am a god.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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5/14/2016 6:08:11 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:59:09 AM, ListLess wrote:

But if you think God could exist, why do you call yourself an atheist? It's such a strong word. Agnostic seems more appropriate.

While many self-claimed atheists would probably consider themselves agnostic in the most literal definition of the word, the connotation of the word implies a sort of listlessness or ambivalence on the issue.

As an example, most rational people are also "agnostic"about the existence of dragons. Sure -- they could technically exist and we can't prove otherwise, but the sheer lack of evidence leads us to conclude with reasonable satisfaction that there are no dragons. The same goes for God. There *could* be a god just like I *could* be in one long, never ending dream caused by a coma. But realistically, I say that I don't believe the latter to be true just as I don't believe the former to be true.

Rational thinkers are technically "agnostic" about most things, simply due to the fact that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove that thing does *not* exist.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:14:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:08:11 AM, Cobalt wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:59:09 AM, ListLess wrote:

But if you think God could exist, why do you call yourself an atheist? It's such a strong word. Agnostic seems more appropriate.

While many self-claimed atheists would probably consider themselves agnostic in the most literal definition of the word, the connotation of the word implies a sort of listlessness or ambivalence on the issue.

As an example, most rational people are also "agnostic"about the existence of dragons. Sure -- they could technically exist and we can't prove otherwise, but the sheer lack of evidence leads us to conclude with reasonable satisfaction that there are no dragons. The same goes for God. There *could* be a god just like I *could* be in one long, never ending dream caused by a coma. But realistically, I say that I don't believe the latter to be true just as I don't believe the former to be true.

Rational thinkers are technically "agnostic" about most things, simply due to the fact that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove that thing does *not* exist.

It's funny you should use the word listless. I chose that username because I think all people are listless... at least until they find God's Truth. That would be the proof forme.

I know that just because many people believe it doesn't make it true. but don't you find it amazing how many people claim to have experienced God in their lives?
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/14/2016 6:24:12 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:00:45 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:59:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?
I think the OP is about the concept of God.

Who said anything about a specific god?

Define god for me - beautiful... Bc i know i am a god.
lol ok I will try, let me know if I am describing you.

God - an energetic force that brought matter into existence. Once matter was established, divided the energy used to create the matter, into the power of light/darkness and heat/cold. Developed the conditions for life by expanding consciousness into other creative beings, who were given power over creative realms to sustain consciousness in matter (life on earth). The conscious being who established life on earth was pleased and rested.

Conditions on earth fell to dormancy during the resting time of the OG (Original God) or OC (Original Creation). While the OG rested, another creative force ACF manipulated the DNA of the OC, brought it to life, and demanded conditions of worship.

The offspring of the OG (Christ) incarnated into the DNA, to bring Creation back to The OG's intentions. ACF war's within consciousness to keep creation from knowing OG, but indwelling consciousness will always know OG, since Christ reestablished his life force within mankind.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:33:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.

Hmm... I never expected hear an atheist say that God is all of us. So you believe in gods but not one perfect God? Doesn't that make you like a pantheist?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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5/14/2016 6:33:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 5:52:58 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:51:38 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:39:30 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:35:39 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Atheists reject man's claims that gods exist.

Ok i understand that, but you didn't give any reason why.
Unless the claimant can provide evidence in support of their claim then their claim warrants not even discussion.
I claim there is a black cat in a black room.

You could still feel the cat. Or if you make a loud noise, it might meow or run away. A blind person might be even better an sensing a cat in the dark than other people.
Can you provide the evidence that your claim of gods is valid?
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/14/2016 6:34:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.
I agree with most of what you are explaining, but I think God does have standards (laws) that need to be realized in order to fulfill the purpose for our Creation. As it stands there is duality of forces that influences mankind and until we are able to discern which force is which, we aren't God's equal, we are learning, not yet perfected. We may never be perfected, we may even self destruct before we find our true purpose. But yes, I believe God includes all of creation - believers and atheists.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:35:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:24:12 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:00:45 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:59:38 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?
I think the OP is about the concept of God.

Who said anything about a specific god?

Define god for me - beautiful... Bc i know i am a god.
lol ok I will try, let me know if I am describing you.

God - an energetic force that brought matter into existence. Once matter was established, divided the energy used to create the matter, into the power of light/darkness and heat/cold. Developed the conditions for life by expanding consciousness into other creative beings, who were given power over creative realms to sustain consciousness in matter (life on earth). The conscious being who established life on earth was pleased and rested.

Conditions on earth fell to dormancy during the resting time of the OG (Original God) or OC (Original Creation). While the OG rested, another creative force ACF manipulated the DNA of the OC, brought it to life, and demanded conditions of worship.

The offspring of the OG (Christ) incarnated into the DNA, to bring Creation back to The OG's intentions. ACF war's within consciousness to keep creation from knowing OG, but indwelling consciousness will always know OG, since Christ reestablished his life force within mankind.

Yes... you are describing me and you. Just understand that god does not want to be "god." God wants you to be god, wants me to be god.... god wants "friends" god wants to not be the creator of this world.... god does not want all of this to be a figment of its imagination. This is beautiful and horrifying at the same time. We are all in control of what we are... this is what has created the story. And that is it. In a metaphysical world you need characters and for them to play their role... as we can see, there is a character for every world (from dark to light). This is what the creation is. This is what the evolution of the "OG" first thought (unbound by matter and void of time) let happen. Now, we need to figure out the "god" thoughts... those that are not are enemies... that is what it is... we rid ourselves of poison, whatever that poison may be.

The only way to figure this out is by accepting we are all gods ... willingly given to us by the first god ... but - which gods will we let rule? i am sure our evolution will always find a way to fight the ones against what makes us a free and loving god(s)... tech, is one step, next will be our voice.

I feel like a god, and i know you are one... but, none of us or "the" god... "the" god is living with us hoping... actually knowing it will be a fun journey fighting for the end that fights for love... if love ever fails... i will then be atheist and believe there is no god...
illegalcombat
Posts: 632
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5/14/2016 6:35:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Burden of proof isn't negated just because most people believe X, that's an appeal to popularity fallacy.

So yes they can appeal to burden of proof not met.

Also I doubt your supreme being belief claim. People over time thought if Gods exist they were like humans, only super powerful, and were prone to such things as anger, indifference, cruelty, could appeal to vanity (oh What a great God you are), etc etc

It wasn't until with the rise of monotheism people got into a p*ssing contest of my God concept is better than your God concept till we got the maximal God, all knowing, all powerful, all wise, just, loving etc etc.

At the very least it could be said that the non perfect God/s concept was based more on observation as opposed to dogmatic assertion of hey God exists, and he is super perfect in all it's ways.


Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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5/14/2016 6:40:58 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:34:50 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.
I agree with most of what you are explaining, but I think God does have standards (laws) that need to be realized in order to fulfill the purpose for our Creation. As it stands there is duality of forces that influences mankind and until we are able to discern which force is which, we aren't God's equal, we are learning, not yet perfected. We may never be perfected, we may even self destruct before we find our true purpose. But yes, I believe God includes all of creation - believers and atheists.
It's sad that you require something external to provide you with a purpose.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:41:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:33:09 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.

Hmm... I never expected hear an atheist say that God is all of us. So you believe in gods but not one perfect God? Doesn't that make you like a pantheist?

Beyond Pantheist friend... i believe we have all been evolving for an infinite time. The good and the bad are both their bc thought has been creating void of matter and time... but, even then... thought knows when it goes too far... why would it go to a point of torture without regress? Thought will always be "majority" good. However, that doesn't mean their aren't the dark thoughts. The first being of "sentience" you can call god... but, i just call it the first source. From there, we have been evolving for "awhile" for lack of better words. Both gods exist, good and bad... we are suppose to figure out which is which... and through growing we will... i mean, look at now. Tech has made us aware of deceit, manipulation, etc.... good will always be more. If darkness wins, then... i will stop being spiritual. But... there is spirituality in all of us being god... god would willingly want that, bc it would know we would all rather say i love what you are doing even though i don't "have" to love what you are doing... that is the only way love can be born... god giving us free will in our immortality. We follow him even though we are just as powerful and don't need to... that is where love is born.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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5/14/2016 6:43:44 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:34:50 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:26:38 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:21:39 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:13:28 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:07:54 AM, ListLess wrote:
At 5/14/2016 5:56:53 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

Why does your only "metaphysical" definition have to be "god"? See... if you are going to ask atheist this question... they will look at you and think... i have already thought of a dozen situations (without god) that can be true... so why? Why? do i have to speculated on your god?

I know there are many different ideas about God. But I'm talking about the one most people mean when they talk about God - all powerful creater of the universe

Why? Why not push your question further and ask people... "think about your god" what does it mean to be it? What does it mean to look into someones eyes, after death, and say i am your god? Do you not see or feel it... does any theist see this... what does it mean to be "your" god? Atheist... agnostics... other theists... what is your argument? Does this god exist? Well, the way i look at it is ... why in the world would this god want to exist ... as the god you are thinking of? That is the question... who wants to face millions as a god? Something that is not really thought about, weirdly... why would there be a god.... if something with that power exists... it will make sure it is not god. Period. Done. Humans... just selfish in what they want to be right when all that they are right about is themselves looking for someone to agree... having a god or no god is silly no the less.... the only person you should call god is yourself... physical or not.... you are the only thing you can prove exists.

Calling yourself God is blasphamy, but I overlook it you since I don't think you really mean to offend God. I'm not like some others who say you must secrety hate God. I think you are just mistaken.

But the rest of what you said... i haveto admit I don't understand much of what you just said. But maybe God has no choice in what kind of God He is. I don't think He is all powerful like that he creates a rock so big he cant lift it..

first off... thank you. You didn't turn this into "you are the devil saying stupid shizz"... Something that is blind within theists.

If you don't understand what i am saying, just think..." you die now" everyone looks at you and you realize you are all of our god. What would you think? You will argue... that is why you are not god... god can handle this... my question to theists is... really, you think god can handle this?

I have never met a theist that understands what it means to be god. It is said that all you think is some kind of X-men or Avengers ... type person. We are "Created in his/her image" god is one of us.... god is all of us... not excluding atheists.... think about that... again you might not understand... but, god gets it. God wants you to find the power within you... god can only feel proud, happy, free... when you realize you are gods equal.
I agree with most of what you are explaining, but I think God does have standards (laws) that need to be realized in order to fulfill the purpose for our Creation. As it stands there is duality of forces that influences mankind and until we are able to discern which force is which, we aren't God's equal, we are learning, not yet perfected. We may never be perfected, we may even self destruct before we find our true purpose. But yes, I believe God includes all of creation - believers and atheists..

I can tell from your writing we would be a correlative couple ;) Of course we have our own ways... but, i am sure you are the type of person that will listen... and so am i.... that is why i am saying this - bc i also agree with you.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:46:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:35:39 AM, illegalcombat wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:32:52 AM, ListLess wrote:
Assuming you don't think you know everything... is it possible that among the things you don't know is the knowledge of God? In that case, how do you prove atheism correct?

You can't appeal to burden of proof fallacy, consider that most poeple who have EVER lived believe in a supreme being. Thus there is a sort of consensus. If you think differently, you should have very good reason to.

Burden of proof isn't negated just because most people believe X, that's an appeal to popularity fallacy.

So yes they can appeal to burden of proof not met.

Also I doubt your supreme being belief claim. People over time thought if Gods exist they were like humans, only super powerful, and were prone to such things as anger, indifference, cruelty, could appeal to vanity (oh What a great God you are), etc etc

It wasn't until with the rise of monotheism people got into a p*ssing contest of my God concept is better than your God concept till we got the maximal God, all knowing, all powerful, all wise, just, loving etc etc.

At the very least it could be said that the non perfect God/s concept was based more on observation as opposed to dogmatic assertion of hey God exists, and he is super perfect in all it's ways.


Peace to you all - thanks for your answers.

That may be a good point. I was thinking along the lines of most people alive today believe in a single perfect God, but maybe this was not always the case. I did some googleing and it does seem like people used to be more likely to believe in many gods that had human quirks.

But I think the human like gods were invented by men, and the real God manifests Himself through creating humans in His image with free will, which only an immensely powerful God can do.
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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5/14/2016 6:50:59 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:46:25 AM, ListLess wrote:
But I think the human like gods were invented by men, and the real God manifests Himself through creating humans in His image with free will, which only an immensely powerful God can do.
According to those who created it and promote it even today.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/14/2016 6:51:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:41:57 AM, Outplayz wrote:

We follow him even though we are just as powerful and don't need to... that is where love is born.
This speaks volumes about free will and is the most perfect love.
ListLess
Posts: 13
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5/14/2016 6:57:17 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/14/2016 6:50:59 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2016 6:46:25 AM, ListLess wrote:
But I think the human like gods were invented by men, and the real God manifests Himself through creating humans in His image with free will, which only an immensely powerful God can do.
According to those who created it and promote it even today.

But how else is free will possible? The laws of science don't account for it. You need a very powerful being to create such a thing.