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Define a Christian

Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/15/2016 1:23:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Primarily, there are many denominations because people divide over the smallest things. There are many today who believe denominations are inherently wrong, and so they run off and start new denominations (and, call their new denomination "non-denominational"), for no other reason at all.

Bigger causes of division result from how willing people are to believe the Bible. If the Bible is unifying, humans themselves are divisive. When people put themselves above the Bible, they deeply fracture the church. Catholics put "tradition" over the Bible. Cults put phony revelation above the Bible. Liberal churches put secular humanism above the bible. Many biblically ignorant people put false teachers above the Bible. And, just about every time this happens, a new denomination is born.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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5/15/2016 2:43:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
A Christian is someone who believes that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Does that about cover it?
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 3:13:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 2:43:39 AM, dee-em wrote:
A Christian is someone who believes that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Does that about cover it?

ME:Can you give me your source for this hypothesis? Or are you just having a rant?

Are you a "Christian" in all aspects of its meaning? IF not say out.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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5/15/2016 4:51:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

Someone who believes in an interpretation of Jesus's teachings.

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Allah worship.

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

Christ couldn't speak strait and logically if his life depended on it...AND IT DID!

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

I'm not a Christian..
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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5/15/2016 5:00:59 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:13:00 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/15/2016 2:43:39 AM, dee-em wrote:
A Christian is someone who believes that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Does that about cover it?

ME:Can you give me your source for this hypothesis? Or are you just having a rant?

I'll give it:

"A Christian is someone who believes that a cosmic Jewish Zombie"

- 1 Thessalonians 4:14

"who was his own father"

- John 1:1

"can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master,"

- Romand 10:9

"so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree."

Romans 5:12 and 6:23

See! Not even a straw man.

Are you a "Christian" in all aspects of its meaning? IF not say out.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Skynet
Posts: 674
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5/15/2016 6:12:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

I'm a Christian. Now I'm going to define myself.

The church I go to and I disagree on some points I don't really think matter in the end, but I do think they are incorrect. Neither the leadership nor I think the other is a heretic, and we consider the other Brothers. My wife and I even disagree about some things.

The most important doctrines to believe are the ones that pertain to getting right with God. Here's what they are and why they are important:

1) God is creator and rightful owner of the Universe, including people. (There are problems if you don't understand HOW God did this, but it isn't 100% vital to be correct on the HOW)
2) God is morally perfect and rightful judge. (Not much wiggle room here)
3) Man was created in God's image, but all men fall from that through trespassing against God (Mainly by trusting in himself above God)
4) No person is perfect, and being perfect on our own is impossible. (We are irreparably morally compromised)
5) Jesus (God incarnate), came in the flesh and died as punishment for our trespass, nullifying to curse by taking all the punishment for our trespasses, if only we would trust in God again.

That's a pretty basic version of the Gospel. If you're a follower of Christ, you follow those things, as he commanded, and therefore a Christian.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 6:34:17 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 4:51:25 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

Someone who believes in an interpretation of Jesus's teachings.

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Allah worship.

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

Christ couldn't speak strait and logically if his life depended on it...AND IT DID!

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

I'm not a Christian..

Bye Bye!
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 6:43:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 6:12:30 AM, Skynet wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

I'm a Christian. Now I'm going to define myself.

The church I go to and I disagree on some points I don't really think matter in the end, but I do think they are incorrect. Neither the leadership nor I think the other is a heretic, and we consider the other Brothers. My wife and I even disagree about some things.

The most important doctrines to believe are the ones that pertain to getting right with God. Here's what they are and why they are important:

1) God is creator and rightful owner of the Universe, including people. (There are problems if you don't understand HOW God did this, but it isn't 100% vital to be correct on the HOW)
2) God is morally perfect and rightful judge. (Not much wiggle room here)
3) Man was created in God's image, but all men fall from that through trespassing against God (Mainly by trusting in himself above God)
4) No person is perfect, and being perfect on our own is impossible. (We are irreparably morally compromised)
5) Jesus (God incarnate), came in the flesh and died as punishment for our trespass, nullifying to curse by taking all the punishment for our trespasses, if only we would trust in God again.

That's a pretty basic version of the Gospel. If you're a follower of Christ, you follow those things, as he commanded, and therefore a Christian.

ME: Thank you. out of the 33000 denominations that is one version of defining a Christian.

I will ask another question if I may: As I asked before, working on the premise that there can only be one truth, how would God, according to his action on sin, moral behavior and requirements for true worship, be able to allow for 33,000 religions being all acceptable.

With a continual breakdown in Christendom, doesn't this say that Christianity as it is presented is not fulfilling the peoples need and concepts.

Did you notice the previous comment that Jesus gave his own "interpretation" of being a Christian, now if that is not the most amazing statement of senescence I have ever heard I wouldn't know. It's a bit like Henry calling his Ford a car.
tarantula
Posts: 859
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5/15/2016 7:03:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

As Christianity seems to cover such a broad spectrum from the benign to the evil extremist, there appears to be no real definition of the term.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 7:13:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 7:03:14 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

As Christianity seems to cover such a broad spectrum from the benign to the evil extremist, there appears to be no real definition of the term.

ME: You surprised me 'spider man/woman', I was ready for a full frontal attack, but thank you.

I would have to disagree with that assumption as there is a "Workshop Manual" for being a Christian.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/15/2016 8:20:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
As more and more people realised the benefits of being classed as god's representatives on Earth more and more of them started their own denominations to get their hands on a share of the power, money little boys etc. etc.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 8:58:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 8:20:00 AM, desmac wrote:
As more and more people realised the benefits of being classed as god's representatives on Earth more and more of them started their own denominations to get their hands on a share of the power, money little boys etc. etc.

ME: That is only an observation, it does not define a Christian. But as we are on observations try this: I am amazed at how some religions people can say, I go to church but I do not believe in everything they say. this is the concept of a defeatist, to my mind, I may be wrong and will leave it for debate.

I look at it this way: If you family doctor starts to make diagnoses that you do not agree with, I would imagine that you would seek other opinions as soon as you can after all, poor diagnoses and wrong religious instruction could mean your life.
tarantula
Posts: 859
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5/15/2016 9:10:46 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
I think it is more than possible to believe in the benign aspect of Christianity about doing good to others, without buying into the less than credible tales surrounding it.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/15/2016 9:16:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 8:58:15 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:20:00 AM, desmac wrote:
As more and more people realised the benefits of being classed as god's representatives on Earth more and more of them started their own denominations to get their hands on a share of the power, money little boys etc. etc.

ME: That is only an observation, it does not define a Christian. But as we are on observations try this: I am amazed at how some religions people can say, I go to church but I do not believe in everything they say. this is the concept of a defeatist, to my mind, I may be wrong and will leave it for debate.

I look at it this way: If you family doctor starts to make diagnoses that you do not agree with, I would imagine that you would seek other opinions as soon as you can after all, poor diagnoses and wrong religious instruction could mean your life.

I would choose my medical practitioner by his qualifications, and results As there are no universally accepted qualifications for sky pilots, and their results (if any) can only be assessed in an imaginary hereafter I shall avoid them like the plague.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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5/15/2016 10:03:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.
Are you counting Santeria? Maybe 243
Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?
There is only one place and that's the Christian bible
What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?
any behavior that Christ taught against.
Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?
Because "churches" have very little to do with Christ.
It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Your original question is define a Christian. A Christian is a person indwelled by the holy spirit of Jesus Christ. Not someone who reads and follows the bible, not someone who does well and attends a church, not someone who identifies with denomination. A Christian may or may not do any of these things.

I personally do not like the term Christian. Its to broad that too many claim to be. The better part of professed Christians are liars and not Christian at all.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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5/15/2016 12:21:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:13:00 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/15/2016 2:43:39 AM, dee-em wrote:
A Christian is someone who believes that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Does that about cover it?

ME:Can you give me your source for this hypothesis? Or are you just having a rant?

The Bible.

Are you a "Christian" in all aspects of its meaning? IF not say out.

No, and I have said it all out.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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5/15/2016 12:52:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian and there's nothing anyone could say or do to deny or refute that persons claim to being a Christian.

How one behaves based on what Christianity teaches is something completely different.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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5/15/2016 1:00:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:52:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian and there's nothing anyone could say or do to deny or refute that persons claim to being a Christian.

How one behaves based on what Christianity teaches is something completely different.

I think that's a big problem. So many people claim to be a Christian but don't even know what it means to be a Christian. I agree that behavior is something completely different, however the behavior of people who claim to be Christian and really are not shapes the world view of Christianity on a whole in a negative way.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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5/15/2016 1:01:55 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 6:34:17 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/15/2016 4:51:25 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

Someone who believes in an interpretation of Jesus's teachings.

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Allah worship.

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

Christ couldn't speak strait and logically if his life depended on it...AND IT DID!

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

I'm not a Christian..


Bye Bye!

Um...bye?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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5/15/2016 1:30:30 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Define a Christian

Someone who thinks they can live forever.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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5/15/2016 3:01:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 1:00:27 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:52:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian and there's nothing anyone could say or do to deny or refute that persons claim to being a Christian.

How one behaves based on what Christianity teaches is something completely different.

I think that's a big problem. So many people claim to be a Christian but don't even know what it means to be a Christian.

Exactly, the most recent British census had extra religious questions that revealed almost 40% of those who call themselves Christian do so simply because they correlate being a nice person as one who is Christian. No after life salvation, no pending second comings or armageddons, no spiritual pretending or biblical verse vilification, just being a nice person is all that qualifies for them.

I agree that behavior is something completely different, however the behavior of people who claim to be Christian and really are not shapes the world view of Christianity on a whole in a negative way.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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5/15/2016 3:26:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 3:01:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/15/2016 1:00:27 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:52:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.

Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian and there's nothing anyone could say or do to deny or refute that persons claim to being a Christian.

How one behaves based on what Christianity teaches is something completely different.

I think that's a big problem. So many people claim to be a Christian but don't even know what it means to be a Christian.

Exactly, the most recent British census had extra religious questions that revealed almost 40% of those who call themselves Christian do so simply because they correlate being a nice person as one who is Christian. No after life salvation, no pending second comings or armageddons, no spiritual pretending or biblical verse vilification, just being a nice person is all that qualifies for them.
This is because when they were young they were told to be a good person and told they were a Christian. I know professing Christians who have never read the bible at all, outside of hearing John 3:16. I think though this may also be true of other religions.
I agree that behavior is something completely different, however the behavior of people who claim to be Christian and really are not shapes the world view of Christianity on a whole in a negative way.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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5/15/2016 7:05:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

Christian originally meant disciples of Jesus, so I think Jesus is the one who should be the one who defines who is Christian.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?

If Christian is disciples of Jesus, he follows Jesus. If "Christian" doesn"t follow Jesus, I think he is not really disciple of Jesus.

Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?

Probably one reason is that people don"t really want to follow Jesus, but they want to benefit somehow from Jesus.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/15/2016 11:50:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 10:03:31 AM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.
Are you counting Santeria? Maybe 243
Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?
There is only one place and that's the Christian bible
What behavior would you rule out for the Christian?
any behavior that Christ taught against.
Do you have an opinion of why there are so many "Christian" Denominations?
Because "churches" have very little to do with Christ.
It would be nice if you could hold onto your rants in a Christian like manner.

Your original question is define a Christian. A Christian is a person indwelled by the holy spirit of Jesus Christ. Not someone who reads and follows the bible, not someone who does well and attends a church, not someone who identifies with denomination. A Christian may or may not do any of these things.

I personally do not like the term Christian. Its to broad that too many claim to be. The better part of professed Christians are liars and not Christian at all.

ME: I agree in part about calling oneself a Christian. There is a term Christendom which literally means all false religion. It may sound impossible but that leaves 32,999 so called Christian religions in the Christendom realm as being false. Then there are the non-Christian designated religions that are also included in the Christendom term.

One problem, that I see is how Christianity was spread around the world. You can't go around slaughtering people for hearsay and telling them you are only doing it because you love them.

The congregations of Jesus teachings were starting to have different intentions in different places, apostates were popping up everywhere, and eventually true Christianity went into "hiding" as the religio/political "religion" of Rome took over with the assistance of the pagan Emperor of Babylon, Constantine.

For a long time, almost 2000 years, this powerful Roman Church ruled the religious world with its many pagan rites and rituals thinly disguised as scriptural concepts.

Eventually, as the Roman Church was contested, without the loss of life, many others came along and took up some denomination, but you will notice that they took the good bits of the Roman Church traditions with them to keep the congregations happy. Xmas, Easter,all the saints to pray to, the hierarchy of the clergy in 'fine raiment', tithing, very important part of a religion, I am sure, and in general accommodating any wants, not needs, that people had.

I have a definition of a true Christian, but I would t rather keep this discussion going for a while.

Going back to your answers, Yes I agree that Bible is the only "workshop Manual" for a Christian to follow.

And as you said, any behavior that Jesus taught against. IF you put this behavior here, taken from the scriptures, there would be a bit of an uproar, as even 'Christians' prefer to change the scriptures to suit their own concepts.

I might be brave later and give some of those scriptures that condemn man's "Christian" behavior.
Rukado
Posts: 527
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5/16/2016 1:29:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 11:50:11 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
ME: I agree in part about calling oneself a Christian. There is a term Christendom which literally means all false religion. It may sound impossible but that leaves 32,999 so called Christian religions in the Christendom realm as being false. Then there are the non-Christian designated religions that are also included in the Christendom term.

There are only two divisions of Christendom, not 33,000. There are those who have minor disagreements in the details. And, there are those who don't hold the Bible as the ultimate authority on doctrine. Don't blame Christianity for division when any non-believing Tom, Dick, Harry, or Pope makes up things and get suckers to follow them.

One problem, that I see is how Christianity was spread around the world. You can't go around slaughtering people for hearsay and telling them you are only doing it because you love them.

I'm not going to argue over things like the Crusades, about whether they were secular in purpose, defensive, or something else. Neither of us know much about them. The wars in my lifetime have been completely unchristian. They were not done to spread Christianity. They were not done in love. Usually, their supporters have the most unchristian of motives, such as supporting Israel.
RuvDraba
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5/16/2016 1:50:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.
Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

I don't believe there's any reason to suppose there's a single cultural or moral standard for Christian identity, Peter. Early church fathers couldn't agree on one until forced to politically, and even then they alienated many passionate, self-identified Christians by doing so, and had to follow up with persecutions, forced conversions and ethnic cleansings to make it stick.

I don't think a Christian church has ever had a single cultural or moral identity, despite many Christians hoping and wishing it did. I think it has only (briefly) held a political identity, before that too fragmented, never to return.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/16/2016 2:28:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/15/2016 9:16:30 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:58:15 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:20:00 AM, desmac wrote:
As more and more people realised the benefits of being classed as god's representatives on Earth more and more of them started their own denominations to get their hands on a share of the power, money little boys etc. etc.

ME: That is only an observation, it does not define a Christian. But as we are on observations try this: I am amazed at how some religions people can say, I go to church but I do not believe in everything they say. this is the concept of a defeatist, to my mind, I may be wrong and will leave it for debate.

I look at it this way: If you family doctor starts to make diagnoses that you do not agree with, I would imagine that you would seek other opinions as soon as you can after all, poor diagnoses and wrong religious instruction could mean your life.

I would choose my medical practitioner by his qualifications, and results As there are no universally accepted qualifications for sky pilots, and their results (if any) can only be assessed in an imaginary hereafter I shall avoid them like the plague.

ME: You seem to speak from a non-Christian point of view, and that does not suit this forum posting.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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5/16/2016 2:39:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 1:29:55 AM, Rukado wrote:
At 5/15/2016 11:50:11 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
ME: I agree in part about calling oneself a Christian. There is a term Christendom which literally means all false religion. It may sound impossible but that leaves 32,999 so called Christian religions in the Christendom realm as being false. Then there are the non-Christian designated religions that are also included in the Christendom term.

There are only two divisions of Christendom, not 33,000. There are those who have minor disagreements in the details. And, there are those who don't hold the Bible as the ultimate authority on doctrine. Don't blame Christianity for division when any non-believing Tom, Dick, Harry, or Pope makes up things and get suckers to follow them.

ME: Statistics prove you wrong on the number of religions that call themselves Christians.

I was not blaming Christianity, I was blaming Christendom, there is a difference.

One problem, that I see is how Christianity was spread around the world. You can't go around slaughtering people for hearsay and telling them you are only doing it because you love them.

I'm not going to argue over things like the Crusades, about whether they were secular in purpose, defensive, or something else. Neither of us know much about them. The wars in my lifetime have been completely unchristian. They were not done to spread Christianity. They were not done in love. Usually, their supporters have the most unchristian of motives, such as supporting Israel.

ME: There is a very good history of the years of the inquisition, both the Catholic worlds of Spain and Rome carried out these actions, with sanctions from the governments of the day. It may surprise you to know that the Roman Catholic Inquisition was still being carried out in this country in 1956 but under different names.

Although the wars of our day were not Christian, they were blessed on both sides by the same Christian denominations. Religions that 'ride on the back of governments' are certainly against the Bible's version of true Christianity.

The Crusades were against the Islamic tribes, and they failed in any attempt to put paid to the spread of the Muslim creed.
Peternosaint
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5/16/2016 2:47:10 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/16/2016 1:50:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/15/2016 12:45:12 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
According to figures, easily found, there are 33,000 different "Christian" denominations, and there is even 242 different Catholic denominations.
Working on the premise that there can only be one truth, where would you find the guideline in becoming a Christian?

I don't believe there's any reason to suppose there's a single cultural or moral standard for Christian identity, Peter. Early church fathers couldn't agree on one until forced to politically, and even then they alienated many passionate, self-identified Christians by doing so, and had to follow up with persecutions, forced conversions and ethnic cleansings to make it stick.

I don't think a Christian church has ever had a single cultural or moral identity, despite many Christians hoping and wishing it did. I think it has only (briefly) held a political identity, before that too fragmented, never to return.

ME: I agree in part, but at the end of Jesus ministries on earth, Christianity had been firmly established, and written down for future generations to apply, which did not happen for a long time. In the early days there was no Church as such but an understanding by many people, both from the Jewish and the gentile, as to what Jesus instituted as being a Christian or a follower of Christ.

Christendom has always been a supporter of the governments of the day, changing its alliances as the governments changed political party. In the early days of the Holy Roman Church, the Church ruled the governments and not the other way around, history also shows this to be accurate.