Total Posts:124|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is holy spirit a person?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Yes, it gives the Holy Spirit all the attributes of a person. It is a helper, comforter teacher, a witness, speaks and hears as listed below.

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

Spirit definition: the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
That is why it is called a spirit. Because it is a non physical person.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

John baptized, John was a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

A person is defined by both the physical and tbe non physical attributes. Blood and water are the physical parts. The spirit is the non physical part. Simple as.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


The scriptures gives us the three entities in the Godhead.
Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

Jesus said he would send the helper . The Holy Spirit was send as soon as Jesus joined his father in heaven. That is why the Holy Spirit was not at the table. Simple as.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate wil Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. -

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--

The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

Stick to the scriptures. Unfortunately without the help of the Holy Spirit you are lost. That sums up your life.

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

You are not in a position to argue with anything. You lived your life in profound stupidity. Failed husband of 4 marriages, failed father and failed JW member. You couldn't even make sense of your own life.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:00:55 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Yes he's married to the tooth fairy.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
janesix
Posts: 3,465
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:05:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
The holy spirit is kundalini, the life giving active force. Also known as shakti.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:05:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 10:00:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yes he's married to the tooth fairy.

And they had a son. That makes three, (triune, trinity) by any math.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:09:57 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 10:05:25 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 10:00:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yes he's married to the tooth fairy.

And they had a son. That makes three, (triune, trinity) by any math.
And he is a fairy but they love him anyway.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:12:11 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 10:09:57 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/18/2016 10:05:25 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 10:00:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yes he's married to the tooth fairy.

And they had a son. That makes three, (triune, trinity) by any math.
And he is a fairy but they love him anyway.
Not that much, they crucified him. Remember!!!
Rukado
Posts: 527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/18/2016 10:49:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
The divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not in question, but the flirtation with polytheism of some Trinitarians is too much.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 8:35:09 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 10:49:32 PM, Rukado wrote:
The divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not in question, but the flirtation with polytheism of some Trinitarians is too much.

That is true but most do not understand what "divinity" means in this context.

All it really means is "of the spirit". It is a description of substance not of rank or status.

The Father and son, as well as all the Angels are all divine beings in that they are spirit beings.

Holy spirit is not a person, but it is divine in that it too is "of the spirit", in fact it is the spirit, which gives life to all that have life.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 8:38:19 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 10:05:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
The holy spirit is kundalini, the life giving active force. Also known as shakti.

In essence that is correct, though in fact it is much more than that also, it is the "Swiss Army Knife" of the spirit world, in that it has a effectively infinite number of uses.

Other religions have adopted the idea of it into their false teachings, and given it various false names.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 8:39:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Yes, it gives the Holy Spirit all the attributes of a person. It is a helper, comforter teacher, a witness, speaks and hears as listed below.

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

Spirit definition: the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
That is why it is called a spirit. Because it is a non physical person.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

John baptized, John was a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

A person is defined by both the physical and tbe non physical attributes. Blood and water are the physical parts. The spirit is the non physical part. Simple as.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


The scriptures gives us the three entities in the Godhead.
Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

Jesus said he would send the helper . The Holy Spirit was send as soon as Jesus joined his father in heaven. That is why the Holy Spirit was not at the table. Simple as.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate wil Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. -

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--


The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

Stick to the scriptures. Unfortunately without the help of the Holy Spirit you are lost. That sums up your life.

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

You are not in a position to argue with anything. You lived your life in profound stupidity. Failed husband of 4 marriages, failed father and failed JW member. You couldn't even make sense of your own life.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.

I experience it daily, hence I am not in any mess.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 8:58:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 8:39:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.

I experience it daily, hence I am not in any mess.

What you experience daily is just gas. That's not the Holy Spirit.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tarantula
Posts: 854
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 9:27:47 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
There is no evidence that the so called 'holy spirit' exists as an entity. It is probably a figment of the human imagination.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 10:42:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 8:58:54 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/19/2016 8:39:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.

I experience it daily, hence I am not in any mess.

What you experience daily is just gas. That's not the Holy Spirit.

Nope definitely holy spirit. It does what it is supposed to do.

Your forerunners, the Pharisees said the same about Christ, lol. I am sure they did about the Apostles also.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 10:46:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 9:27:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence that the so called 'holy spirit' exists as an entity. It is probably a figment of the human imagination.

As always, what you men is no evidence that you are prepared to accept. I have seen plenty of evidence, even in my own life, and if I had much of an imagination I would be the novelist I always wanted to be.
tarantula
Posts: 854
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 10:47:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 10:46:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 9:27:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence that the so called 'holy spirit' exists as an entity. It is probably a figment of the human imagination.

As always, what you men is no evidence that you are prepared to accept. I have seen plenty of evidence, even in my own life, and if I had much of an imagination I would be the novelist I always wanted to be.

There is no evidence that is acceptable.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 10:48:38 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.

At 5/19/2016 8:39:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I experience it daily, hence I am not in any mess.

At 5/19/2016 8:58:54 AM, annanicole wrote:
What you experience daily is just gas. That's not the Holy Spirit.

That's mostly correct! because MadClown recently wrote -

At 5/17/2016 5:02:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
They are the only people who are doing jehovah's will Matthew 7:21-23.

So whatever the non-Botchtowerite MadClown is doing, by his own admission, isn't this jehovah's will & the spirit he claims to have is therefore the spirit of delusion & Or a false spirit e.g. from his true Master, his Devil! (1 John 3:8)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 11:14:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 10:57:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
I do wonder if MCB is either drunk or on an illegal drug of some kind when he posts?

I don't drink, lol, nor do I abuse any substances, I like reality too much, but that is not an unusual thing for people to wonder, they said that about Christ and the Apostles also, lol.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 11:15:02 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 10:47:23 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 5/19/2016 10:46:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 9:27:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence that the so called 'holy spirit' exists as an entity. It is probably a figment of the human imagination.

As always, what you men is no evidence that you are prepared to accept. I have seen plenty of evidence, even in my own life, and if I had much of an imagination I would be the novelist I always wanted to be.

There is no evidence that is acceptable.

To you.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 11:28:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 8:39:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/18/2016 9:59:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/18/2016 8:30:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, I am afraid that, purely because I can't thin of a better way of doing it without the "rambling" I am so frequently accused of, going to take this straight from the WTBTS publication "Reasoning from the Scriptures", Pp 406,407 with a passage from Pp 380,381 inserted in italics for further clarification.

"Does the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?

Yes, it gives the Holy Spirit all the attributes of a person. It is a helper, comforter teacher, a witness, speaks and hears as listed below.

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit ("Holy Ghost," KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos; "Comforter," KJ; "Advocate," JB, NE) that "teaches," "bears witness," "speaks" and "hears." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were "filled" with holy spirit, that some were "baptized" with it or "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God"s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.

Spirit definition: the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
That is why it is called a spirit. Because it is a non physical person.

What is the holy spirit?

A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as "filling" people; they can be "baptized" with it; and they can be "anointed" with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

John baptized, John was a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a "helper" (Greek, pa"raE7;kle"tos), and he said that this helper would "teach," "bear witness," "speak," and "hear." (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have "children." (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit "spoke," other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also "the water and the blood" are said to "bear witness." So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

A person is defined by both the physical and tbe non physical attributes. Blood and water are the physical parts. The spirit is the non physical part. Simple as.

The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will."Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.

The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father"Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.


The scriptures gives us the three entities in the Godhead.
Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God"s right hand." But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)

Jesus said he would send the helper . The Holy Spirit was send as soon as Jesus joined his father in heaven. That is why the Holy Spirit was not at the table. Simple as.

John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate wil Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. -

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--


The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God"s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: "The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.""Vol. XIV, p. 296."

Stick to the scriptures. Unfortunately without the help of the Holy Spirit you are lost. That sums up your life.

I find those scriptures and that reasoning impossible to argue with, since it is the only thing that makes total sense scripturally.

You are not in a position to argue with anything. You lived your life in profound stupidity. Failed husband of 4 marriages, failed father and failed JW member. You couldn't even make sense of your own life.

I also find the few arguments that trinitarians can come up with to claim that holy spirit is a person tenuous to say the least.
That is why you are in the mess you find yourself in. You never experienced the Holy Spirit.

I experience it daily, hence I am not in any mess.

What would you call this?

You remain divorced after 4 marriages and your children ignores you.
You remain disfellowshipped and shunned by the JW elders.
You engaged in unnatural sexual acts and called yourself a serial adulterer.
You remain financially strapped, your fund raising attempts all failed.
You are still on medication for your suicidal depressions.
You are now physically handicapped and live on disability assistance.
You haven't been laid in 15 years.
You live alone with a dog.
You turned to Jehovah,but your government handouts are paying your bills.
You are 67 and do not have any employable skills besides being too old to work.
You think jesus was an angel. Everyone knows he was a Jewish carpenters son.
You pray to Jehovah a meaningless name in the English language.
Last we heard you were raising money for a motorcycle because your old one had to be scrapped.
You failed to raise money on Gofundme.com so you could join Imelda after trying for several years.
You were looking for relationships on a free dating service Mingle2.com while still committed to marry Imelda.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 11:57:27 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 11:14:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 10:57:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
I do wonder if MCB is either drunk or on an illegal drug of some kind when he posts?

I don't drink, lol, nor do I abuse any substances, I like reality too much, but that is not an unusual thing for people to wonder, they said that about Christ and the Apostles also, lol.
Who did? Supply evidence that people claimed christ and the apostles were on drugs.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tarantula
Posts: 854
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 12:46:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 11:14:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 10:57:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
I do wonder if MCB is either drunk or on an illegal drug of some kind when he posts?

I don't drink, lol, nor do I abuse any substances, I like reality too much, but that is not an unusual thing for people to wonder, they said that about Christ and the Apostles also, lol.

Your posts and reality are at odds!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 1:42:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
What tbe bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and how the Jehivah's Witnesses who claim they follow the bible are actually denouncing the Bible for personifying the Holy Spirit.

According to the Bible.
Question:Who is the Holy Spirit?"
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Answer: There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man"s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Misconception: Jesus" apostles and other early disciples believed that the holy spirit was a person.

It is clear the Jehovah's Witnesses rejects what the Holy Spirit is according to the Bible and accuses the bible of spreading misconceptions. But the bible is the source of truth and not misconceptions.

Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Charles Taze Russell never referred to the Holy Spirit of God as being God"s "active force". Russell did point out how the various scriptural references to God"s Holy Spirit.
But the Jehovah's Witnesses even rejected Russell's position and declared the Holy Spirit is an 'active force' thus going against both the scriptures and their own earlier position held by their leader Charles Taze Russell.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 1:43:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 1:42:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
What tbe bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and how the Jehivah's Witnesses who claim they follow the bible are actually denouncing the Bible for personifying the Holy Spirit.

According to the Bible.
Question:Who is the Holy Spirit?"
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Answer: There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man"s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Misconception: Jesus" apostles and other early disciples believed that the holy spirit was a person.

It is clear the Jehovah's Witnesses rejects what the Holy Spirit is according to the Bible and accuses the bible of spreading misconceptions. But the bible is the source of truth and not misconceptions.

Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Charles Taze Russell never referred to the Holy Spirit of God as being God"s "active force". Russell did point out how the various scriptural references to God"s Holy Spirit.
But the Jehovah's Witnesses even rejected Russell's position and declared the Holy Spirit is an 'active force' thus going against both the scriptures and their own earlier position held by their leader Charles Taze Russell.

Is that a yes or no.?
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 1:49:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 12:51:31 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Holy spirit is alcoholic holy water.

Wait!! Is there another sort? What have the priests been telling me?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 1:49:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 1:43:51 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 5/19/2016 1:42:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
What tbe bible tells us about the Holy Spirit and how the Jehivah's Witnesses who claim they follow the bible are actually denouncing the Bible for personifying the Holy Spirit.

According to the Bible.
Question:Who is the Holy Spirit?"
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Answer: There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man"s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Misconception: Jesus" apostles and other early disciples believed that the holy spirit was a person.

It is clear the Jehovah's Witnesses rejects what the Holy Spirit is according to the Bible and accuses the bible of spreading misconceptions. But the bible is the source of truth and not misconceptions.

Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The "Holy Ghost," or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

Fact: The King James version of the Bible includes at 1 John 5:7, 8 the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." However, researchers have found that those words were not written by the apostle John and so do not belong in the Bible. Professor Bruce M. Metzger wrote: "That these words are spurious and have no right to stand in the New Testament is certain.""A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.

Misconception: The Bible personifies the holy spirit, and this proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person. The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21) For example, wisdom is said to have "works" and "children," and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness."Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11.

Similarly, when the apostle John quoted Jesus, he personified the holy spirit as a "helper" (paraclete) that would give evidence, guide, speak, hear, declare, glorify, and receive. He used masculine personal pronouns such as "he" or "him" when referring to that "helper." (John 16:7-15) However, he did so because the Greek word for "helper" (pa"raR42;kle"tos) is a masculine noun and requires a masculine pronoun according to the rules of Greek grammar. When John referred to the holy spirit using the neuter noun pneuR42;ma, he used the genderless pronoun "it.""John 14:16, 17.

Misconception: Baptism in the name of the holy spirit proves that it is a person.

Fact: The Bible sometimes uses "name" to stand for power or authority. (Deuteronomy 18:5, 19-22; Esther 8:10) This is similar to its use in the English expression "in the name of the law," which does not mean that the law is a person. A person who is baptized "in the name ofR02;" the holy spirit recognizes the power and role of the holy spirit in accomplishing God"s will."Matthew 28:19.

Charles Taze Russell never referred to the Holy Spirit of God as being God"s "active force". Russell did point out how the various scriptural references to God"s Holy Spirit.
But the Jehovah's Witnesses even rejected Russell's position and declared the Holy Spirit is an 'active force' thus going against both the scriptures and their own earlier position held by their leader Charles Taze Russell.

Is that a yes or no.?

I think being Hari it is a maybe (or maybe not), lol.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2016 1:54:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/19/2016 11:15:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 10:47:23 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 5/19/2016 10:46:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/19/2016 9:27:47 AM, tarantula wrote:
There is no evidence that the so called 'holy spirit' exists as an entity. It is probably a figment of the human imagination.

As always, what you men is no evidence that you are prepared to accept. I have seen plenty of evidence, even in my own life, and if I had much of an imagination I would be the novelist I always wanted to be.

There is no evidence that is acceptable.

To you.

I keep singing that song .
The 2 men I admire most the father son and the Holy Ghost.
Has this anything to do witH the answer ?