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If God didn't exist.

KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 6:06:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?

Books (or memes) written and created by man.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:08:15 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud. : :

Where do you think languages came from?
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:10:18 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:06:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?

Books (or memes) written and created by man. : :

Where did the concept of writing and books come from?

p.s. I am trying to get you to think beyond what you believe.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:10:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:06:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?

Books (or memes) written and created by man. : :

Where did the concept of writing and books come from?

Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings.
p.s. I am trying to get you to think beyond what you believe.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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5/20/2016 6:16:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:08:15 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud. : :

Where do you think languages came from?

Human languages came from...(wait for it)....Humans.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:17:52 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:10:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:06:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?

Books (or memes) written and created by man. : :

Where did the concept of writing and books come from?

Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings. : :

Where did you get that idea? Were you there to witness the thoughts that entered the mind of the first man who wrote something with his hands?

p.s. I am trying to get you to think beyond what you believe.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org... : :

How stupid do you think I am?
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:18:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:16:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:08:15 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud. : :

Where do you think languages came from?

Human languages came from...(wait for it)....Humans. : :

You're not thinking very clearly. Where do your thoughts come from?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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5/20/2016 6:25:14 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:18:55 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:16:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:08:15 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud. : :

Where do you think languages came from?

Human languages came from...(wait for it)....Humans. : :

You're not thinking very clearly. Where do your thoughts come from?

I've already given two good objections to the argument you brought to the OP. I'm not really interested in following you into the rabbit hole tonight. Maybe another time. :-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 6:33:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:


Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

"Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events." So humans concocted "events" of an abstract nature and recorded them, prior to to recording factual descriptions of events? How does that make scene, that an abstract idea were recorded before mere factual observations?

A quote from your own link:
Hammurabi ruled for nearly 42 years, about 1792 to 1750 BC according to the Middle chronology. In the preface to the law, he states, "Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared Marduk, the patron god of Babylon (The Human Record, Andrea & Overfield 2005), to bring about the rule in the land."[5] On the stone slab are 44 columns and 28 paragraphs that contained 282 laws. The laws follow along the rules of 'an eye for an eye'.[6]

Even if the bible isn't the first book, the author of Code of Hammurabi, had a concept of God as well as law.

If Man's knowledge of god derives from his own imagination, as you are claiming, than if there really wasn't a God, mans first written recordings would be based of factual physical surroundings, of uses of creative thought. Certainly the humans of ancient civilizations spent much of their time and energy of sustenance and survival, when did they have time to ponder abstract ideas about life?

It is only modern man who is at liberty to ponder the non existence of God, because technological advancements allow him the time and energy to question abstract ideas.
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:35:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:25:14 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:18:55 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:16:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:08:15 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:05:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:55:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:34 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?


'If the Earth isn't flat, then why are there people who call themselves flat earthers?'

Need I say more? : :

That's a very poor analogy because to those who believe the earth is flat, they have valid arguments to prove it's flat. To those who believe the earth is a globe, they have valid arguments to prove it is a globe.

God has never been observed by anyone but yet "God" and "Creator" are in man's languages. If God didn't exist, then "God" and "Creator" would not be in man's languages. Therefore, theist and atheist wouldn't make any sense.

I think the analogy is relevant, but I see other objections to your argument so I'll move on. For instance, by your reasoning, every conceivable concept represented by language (no matter how absurd) actually exists.

...this just isn't a very good argument for anything, bud. : :

Where do you think languages came from?

Human languages came from...(wait for it)....Humans. : :

You're not thinking very clearly. Where do your thoughts come from?

I've already given two good objections to the argument you brought to the OP. I'm not really interested in following you into the rabbit hole tonight. Maybe another time. :-) : :

You might believe they are good objections but they aren't good enough to change my thoughts. The reason I say that is because I know where all languages come from.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/20/2016 6:37:08 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

How do you mean "if"?
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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5/20/2016 6:39:45 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:37:08 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

How do you mean "if"?
We have atheists and theists now and gods don't exist.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:40:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:37:08 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

How do you mean "if"? : :

The reason we human beings talk about God is because God revealed to man that God exists starting a long time ago and even today. Those of us who know that he exists cannot prove that he exists to someone who doesn't know he exists. Someone who knows he exists are called theists. Those who don't know he exists are called atheists. If God didn't exist, neither theists or atheists would exist.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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5/20/2016 6:43:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:40:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:37:08 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

How do you mean "if"? : :

The reason we human beings talk about God is because God revealed to man that God exists starting a long time ago and even today. Those of us who know that he exists cannot prove that he exists to someone who doesn't know he exists. Someone who knows he exists are called theists. Those who don't know he exists are called atheists. If God didn't exist, neither theists or atheists would exist.

Have you heard of the concept of circular reasoning, Brad?
bonsai
Posts: 172
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5/20/2016 6:48:01 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:43:57 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:40:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:37:08 AM, desmac wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

How do you mean "if"? : :

The reason we human beings talk about God is because God revealed to man that God exists starting a long time ago and even today. Those of us who know that he exists cannot prove that he exists to someone who doesn't know he exists. Someone who knows he exists are called theists. Those who don't know he exists are called atheists. If God didn't exist, neither theists or atheists would exist.

Have you heard of the concept of circular reasoning, Brad? : :

That's a line that non-believers use to justify their lack of knowledge.
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 8:08:30 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:17:52 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:10:18 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:06:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:03:20 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:01:37 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:58:11 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:52:28 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:50:54 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:45:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:40:32 AM, bonsai wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:35:34 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 5:20:56 AM, bonsai wrote:
If God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?

Yes; the former would be delusional wacks preventing society's progress; whilst the latter would just be the default position. : :

If God didn't exist, why would people need to call themselves theists or atheists?

Because atheist/theist is a claim of belief. What you probably meant is "If everyone knew God didn't exist, would theists and atheists have any meaning?", if so, then my explanation applies. : :'

No, I didn't mean "if everyone knew God didn't exist". If God didn't exist, God would not be part of man's languages. There wouldn't be any words such as "theist" or "atheist".

Well, this isn't a hypothetical situation; look around you, and you will get the answer to your question. : :

No language would contain the word "God" or "Creator" unless God the Creator had made it known to man that God the Creator existed. If God didn't exist, theism and atheism would not exist.

You're taking upon yourself the naive position that people will always be able to know the truth. God, like many other things, was invented. We have "God" in our vocabulary just the same way we have "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" in our vocabulary. : :

Where do you think the words "Sauron" or "Flying-spaghetti-monster" came from?

Books (or memes) written and created by man. : :

Where did the concept of writing and books come from?

Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings. : :

Where did you get that idea? Were you there to witness the thoughts that entered the mind of the first man who wrote something with his hands?

No; but I can speculate why they acted the way they did by projecting myself into their situation.
p.s. I am trying to get you to think beyond what you believe.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org... : :

How stupid do you think I am?

Well; quite stupid, if you say that the bible was the first book (no offence).
KthulhuHimself
Posts: 995
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5/20/2016 8:17:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:33:54 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:


Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

"Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events." So humans concocted "events" of an abstract nature and recorded them, prior to to recording factual descriptions of events? How does that make scene, that an abstract idea were recorded before mere factual observations?

Please refer to my reference of cave-paintings lower down on this post.
A quote from your own link:
Hammurabi ruled for nearly 42 years, about 1792 to 1750 BC according to the Middle chronology. In the preface to the law, he states, "Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared Marduk, the patron god of Babylon (The Human Record, Andrea & Overfield 2005), to bring about the rule in the land."[5] On the stone slab are 44 columns and 28 paragraphs that contained 282 laws. The laws follow along the rules of 'an eye for an eye'.[6]

Even if the bible isn't the first book, the author of Code of Hammurabi, had a concept of God as well as law.

Yes, but that says nothing of the existence of God. I didn't even say that the Code of Hammurabi was the first book either, only that there were older books than the bible.
If Man's knowledge of god derives from his own imagination, as you are claiming, than if there really wasn't a God, mans first written recordings would be based of factual physical surroundings, of uses of creative thought. Certainly the humans of ancient civilizations spent much of their time and energy of sustenance and survival, when did they have time to ponder abstract ideas about life?

Well, the first records WERE of factual physical surroundings (albeit represented emotionally), please refer to my mentioning of the prehistoric cave-paintings.
It is only modern man who is at liberty to ponder the non existence of God, because technological advancements allow him the time and energy to question abstract ideas.

Correction; it is only modern man who is at liberty to ponder the non existence of God, because technological advancements allow him the time and energy to CREATE abstract ideas.

For this case (and historically speaking), modern man means anyone whom had lived in the past 10,000 years, i.e. from the beginning of civilization.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 9:05:48 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 8:17:05 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:33:54 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:14:01 AM, KthulhuHimself wrote:


Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events. The first examples that can be thought of are prehistoric cave-paintings.

p.s. The bible was not the first book to be written.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

"Writing started when we begun to feel the natural urge to remember and carry on previous events." So humans concocted "events" of an abstract nature and recorded them, prior to to recording factual descriptions of events? How does that make scene, that an abstract idea were recorded before mere factual observations?

Please refer to my reference of cave-paintings lower down on this post.
A quote from your own link:
Hammurabi ruled for nearly 42 years, about 1792 to 1750 BC according to the Middle chronology. In the preface to the law, he states, "Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared Marduk, the patron god of Babylon (The Human Record, Andrea & Overfield 2005), to bring about the rule in the land."[5] On the stone slab are 44 columns and 28 paragraphs that contained 282 laws. The laws follow along the rules of 'an eye for an eye'.[6]

Even if the bible isn't the first book, the author of Code of Hammurabi, had a concept of God as well as law.

Yes, but that says nothing of the existence of God. I didn't even say that the Code of Hammurabi was the first book either, only that there were older books than the bible.
If Man's knowledge of god derives from his own imagination, as you are claiming, than if there really wasn't a God, mans first written recordings would be based of factual physical surroundings, of uses of creative thought. Certainly the humans of ancient civilizations spent much of their time and energy of sustenance and survival, when did they have time to ponder abstract ideas about life?

Well, the first records WERE of factual physical surroundings (albeit represented emotionally), please refer to my mentioning of the prehistoric cave-paintings.
Why did those depictions include "other worldly" art-forms then?
Shamanic Cave-art: 'The Evolution of Imagination'.
"This interpretation of Palaeolithic cave-art reflects the suggestion of an interest in the metaphysical side of life. Images of mixtures of humans and animals are proposed to be 'visionary' and suggestive of profound experiences........................"
http://www.ancient-wisdom.com...

It is only modern man who is at liberty to ponder the non existence of God, because technological advancements allow him the time and energy to question abstract ideas.

Correction; it is only modern man who is at liberty to ponder the non existence of God, because technological advancements allow him the time and energy to CREATE abstract ideas.

For this case (and historically speaking), modern man means anyone whom had lived in the past 10,000 years, i.e. from the beginning of civilization.

"Civilization" once required the great majority to persons to toil for their sustenance, via retrieving water, wood, food, food prep shelter and clothing. Only the elite had time to ponder anything other than meeting needs. It's only been the last hundred years or so that the majority of persons didn't have to devote much of their time to sustenance, and it coincides with the rise of atheism.